Tithe ends up having the same problem as Oreskos Explorer: it doesn't actually ramp. It does help ensure I get lands so it is not a total loss. I am more open to Land Tax due to not being a one-shot effect. My main issue with these types of cards is that they all rely on being behind your opponents. Yes, they help you catch up, but if you are already at parity or ahead, they are dead cards. And I don't like having cards that can be dead in my deck. I actually had a game the other day (either this deck or Queen Marchesa) where I had Oreskos Explorer in my hand since around turn 6-7 and it never got a chance to get me a land.
You are probably right that Smothering Tithe is a good inclusion. Black Market actually was in my initial list. A 5 mana Enchantment seems tough to ensure it sticks around but the interaction with Teysa shouldn't be totally discounted. In the end I didn't feel it was necessary.
On the note of ramp, I want to comment that I don't really think the deck needs a lot of it. Getting cards to ensure I hit land drops are good, and ramp when I can get it is good, but I don't want to go overboard on this aspect. Having too much can be problematic as well.
I think the Blood Artist-type cards are good for a slightly different playstyle. I did cut them but I don't think the build needs to change a lot for them to be viable to be honest, but it is a slow grind that is not something I want to do. The deck already does employ a slow grind to keep the board clear, but then gets in with big attacks. Extort cards are likely pretty good as well especially with Blood Artist-esque cards. Crypt Ghast is ramp and Extort so it might not be the worst.
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Jan 19, 2019I decided to stay away from cards like that (Teferi's Puzzle Box falls into the same category). This is for two reasons: 1) I don't like how "powerful" they can be and 2) I don't like that they give me less control over my draws and the cards in hand. The first is more about the fact that the deck is already kind of frustrating to play against and making it more so would just make it more unfun. The second is due to me wanting to plan out my plays and having one of those cards makes it a little tougher to sequence things the way I want since I have to get a new hand on every spell. I know there are ways to mitigate that, and they are both more of win conditions than anything, but they are still not cards I want to try to slot in anywhere.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I do agree that they are pretty good, especially if the plan is to land either of the Niv-Mizzet's or the Locust God and just rack up the draw triggers, so anyone trying to play that way would likely want to include them. I prefer a more control oriented build and I don't think they work as well with that.
Jan 19, 2019Posted in: Magic General
This change was likely made almost entirely for Arena and I think it makes a ton of sense. Wizards recognizes, and has for a while, that what their cards do affect Online play and they try to account for that in their wording. This card in particular is exceedingly tedious to play in Arena due to not being able to yield to the trigger (like you can in MTGO). While this can be argued that it is somewhat of a failing on Arena's part, it really doesn't change enough about the card to be concerned about it and it makes the gameplay in Arena much smoother.Quote from SavannahLion »I don't think that such errata is justifiable for Arena or necessary for the card.
I wouldn't expect this kind of thing to happen often but I am glad it did here.
Jan 17, 2019I played this last night and did pretty well with it. I made one major play mistake that cost me the game though.I was playing against new Vaevictus, Muldrotha, and Ishai & Thrasios.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I got down Midnight Reaper early just to have it killed. I then got out Burnished Hart and kept looping that for a few turns with Volrath's Stronghold. Muldroth had a strip mine in their graveyard so I was trying to get to some gravehate but didn't get to it soon enough so they blew up my Stronghold. Muldrotha died and I got gravehate a couple turns later. I had to decide whether I wanted to go after them (strictly for Strip Mine) or the partners since their graveyard had a lot of good stuff. I went after Strip Mine which may or may not have been the right choice.
The main issue I had was with Tajuru Preserver against the partners. That protected then for way too long. I ended up getting a Recruiter of the Guard to get something. I wanted False Prophet, but I already cut it. I ended up getting a Ravenous Chupacabra. I blew up the Shalai Ishai had so I could work towards killing the Preserver.
A turn or two later I cast E Tutor to get Noxious Gearhulk to kill the Preserver. I was finally able to keep them in check (sort of). A few turns later I cast Living Death to get all my stuff back. It would have given Ishai theirs too but I felt it was worth it. I then spent removal on Preserver again and Recruiter entered with 2 Fleshbags and Butcher of Malakir. I ordered the triggers so Preserver died first so they had to sac stuff. I then tutored for Hallowed Spiritkeeper with the intention of getting a bunch of tokens to gain life since I was at 13. However, this was the big misplay. Ishai had 4 creatures left but they were big. They dropped in Kamahl and swung at me. Muldrotha, also blew up my Butcher. That really didn't matter much though. Had I gotten Viscera Seer or Carrion Feeder, I could have made Ishai sac their board. With the way things were going, I could have likely won from that position (though Muldrotha had Pernicious Deed in the grave so it would have been tough).
Overall, I feel the deck played well and was only hamstrung by my major misplay towards the end. I didn't miss Yosei though I kind of missed False Prophet based on the early situation with Preserver but, even then, it was only 3 creatures that would have been exiled so I don't know. I had a good chance to win without it anyway.
Jan 15, 2019The game I had was more of a one-off in that case. The main reason Day's Undoing is still in here even though it doesn't work well with Niv is to get my graveyard and library shuffled together. Timetwister and Time Spiral also help with this. I am almost positive I had one of those in my hand during that last game so, if I didn't have enough cards, I would have just cast one of those to try again the next turn.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I know when I built Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind years ago it was a legitimate concern but I seem to have a bit more control in this deck to ensure I don't deck myself in the process of trying to win.
Jan 13, 2019Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Assuming no First or Double Strike, Combat damage is all dealt at once time. Then, Kusari-Gama triggers and deals damage later. Not only is the damage that Kusari-Gama deals not done at the same time, it is too late to be used to save anything (unless your creature has First Strike).Quote from Greenhamma »Kusari-Gama - I figured if my creatures had trample the equipped creature would kill off everything that is blocking and my creatures would take no damage while also dealing all their damage to the opponent.... I could be wrong about the way damage is dealt and it not work that way but that was the intention. Do creatures deal damage all at once or one at a time in certain order?
Yeah, exile is a problem. I don't think there is an answer in mono-green. White has Teferi's Protection, Ghostway, and Eerie Interlude but green doesn't really get much.
Jan 13, 2019Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
The main things to look towards are lowering your curve (which is somewhat hard to do here) and adding ramp. As you mentioned, you are looking to add Kodama's Reach so that is reasonable. And I did miss Nissa's Pilgrimage so that seems fine.Quote from Greenhamma »If you ever get time i would like to hear those other tweaks. Also you put tribal in quotations, did that mean it isn't technically tribal?
I only put tribal in quotes because you are only running 10 Wurms (after the cuts above) with a bunch of needed support cards. Generally, Tribal decks are more focused on the tribe than this one is. I am not saying it is bad or anything. It was more of a comment about it being a little more broad than most tribal decks.
Things worth watching to see if they can be cut are:
Kindred Summons - you might not have a high enough density of any creature types to make this reliable
Wild Pair - you only have CMC 14, 10, 7, 6, and 8 that have more than one creature to get and only CMC 8 and 14 have 3
Descendant's Path - this is the same reason as Kindred Summons
Kusari-Gama - This just doesn't look that great. Maybe it plays better than it looks, but I don't see this ever really doing what you want.
Wurmcalling - I actually like the idea of this card, but I am not sure how often it will be better than a 4/4 for 8 though. Granted, it is repeatable, but maybe a Hydra is better here? It is outside the theme, but Hydra Broodmaster can be a way to sink a bunch of mana into something.
As for other things, I might look towards Momentous Fall and Greater Good as card draw effects. I don't see a lot of card draw in the deck and these work well with what you are trying to do which is big creatures (essentially). On theme, you have Dirtcowl Wurm which can grow pretty big (it can be chumped but it is cheaper and bigger than others) and Soul Swallower can grow pretty big, it has trample, and is cheap. I don't know if either are that great, but they can be tried anyway.
Soul is expensive in mana cost, but may be somewhat necessary if your board is constantly getting wrathed. You have Genesis as a form of recursion and maybe Eternal Witness would be good too which allow you to rebuild after a wrath (if it occurs). You also have Heroic Intervention and Eldrazi Monument which helps here too. I think it can be useful but if your board isn't really being wrathed all that often (and, when it is, the other cards are saving it) it might be a bit overkill.I also thought about putting Soul of New Phyrexia in. Whats you opinion on that?
Jan 13, 2019Yeah, I try not to go too far into the tutor aspect and, as shown with Yosei, if something is making the game unfun or makes it linear I will typically change it. If that happens here where every game plays the same because of it, I am willing to cut it, but E. Tutor is less likely to create the same game states every game due to the number of tutor targets and the fact that none of them actually win the game on their own.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Also, there is certainly that concern with the Auramancers. We tend to have a lot of wraths so it may not survive the 3 upkeeps it needs to survive due to the number of wraths and/or spot removal. So I will see if it ever actually goes off.
Jan 13, 2019You have a very high curve but only 33 lands. I think you need to increase your land count to at least 38 if not more.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
These seem less than optimal in this build and could probably be replaced with something else:
- Plated Slagwurm - Hexproof is great, but spending 7 mana for an 8/8 that can be chumped easily is not. I don't know that I would bother with this.
- Roaring Slagwurm - How many artifacts are your opponents running that it is worth to tap any of them on your turn? It doesn't stop them from being untapped, so the usefulness of this card seems suspect. Especially since it is a 6/4 for 7 that also can be chumped easily.
- Elfhame Sanctuary & Scouting Trek - Abundance seems much better than these if you really want the effect. I realize these allow you to go a little lower on lands, but you still need to draw these to get there. I don't think they are reliable enough to allow for cutting your lands to where you have them.
- Gaea's Anthem - You are already running big creatures. Giving them a relatively small boost won't change a lot.
- Primal Rage - Nylea, God of the Hunt seems better here. She pumps creatures if needed, she can be a creature, and she still gives your stuff trample.
- Storm Seeker - This seems like it was included for a single player that always has a ton of cards in their hand but it is probably not work with. Your creatures should be doing much more damage than this could.
- Sundial of the Infinite - Is there a specific interaction you want this included for? I don't really see anything worth including it except Blade of Selves and I don't know that it is worth it for that.
- Tanglesap - I see what you are trying to do here, but your creatures are already pretty big so dying in combat is less of an issue; and saving your own dudes seems to be the main reason to run this particular fog effect as you seem to want to still have them deal their damage. If you really want a fog effect, run Spike Weaver or Constant Mists
As is the nature of this type of "tribe" your Curve is going to be high so you need to make sure you can actually cast your spells. I notice that you have very little true ramp. You have From Beyond which is temporary ramp and Goreclaw which only works while it is around. Skyshroud Claim,, Recross the Paths, and Cultivate are your permanent ramp. Vernal Bloom (though it helps others too) is like Goreclaw but isn't quite as easy to remove so might be decent. I don't like either Goreclaw or Vernal Bloom as ramp (Goreclaw is still good for its other ability though) and I would look at maybe cutting Vernal Bloom for something else.
There are more that I see that could be trimmed/changed, but these are the things that stood out to me right away.
Jan 13, 2019I as actually just thinking of the Charger and am in the middle of proxying it up to test out. I am going to try both that and the Explorer.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Enlightened Tutor is probably obvious. I am going to put that in as well. I am going to cut Arguel's Blood Fast for it. I don't think it is as helpful in this deck as it is in others since I have so much other card draw.
After reviewing a bit more, I may have too many wraths, but I don't think Living Death is right to cut. I am thinking that it is likely Damnation but I am going to keep them all for now with a focus on whether I ever feel I am getting wraths as dead cards.
So, with the cuts mentioned above and the new inclusions, here is what I am going to change:
Regna, the Redeemer
Yosei, the Morning Star
Arguel's Blood Fast
Jan 13, 2019I played a game with this deck yesterday and ended up winning. I was playing against a Daxos of Meletis deck and a budget Sen Triplets deck. Both were decks that are for leagues that we hold and the Sen Triplets still had $100 for the budget so it isn't as tuned as it could be (yet).Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
The game actually started off kind of rocky for me. I started with Swamp, Nykthos, Winding Canyons, Midnight Reaper, and Sword of the Animist in hand. I had 2 other cards but I don't remember what they were. I got down the Reaper and then Sword but missed a couple land drops. Luckily the Sword was there to ensure I didn't fall too far behind.
I got Teysa down around turn 7 or 8. I also got a Dictate of Erebos down a turn or two after that. I finally got to a Phyrexian Tower as a sac outlet with Carrion Feeder coming in just a little later. I ended up needing to wrath the board though which I did, but then cast Thrilling Encore right after it. Nykthos allowed me to have the additional mana I needed at the time to make it possible to do this.
I got a couple ETB effects but, unfortunately, Rift was cast so everyone got their stuff back. It still worked out for me though as I had quite a few good things. I recast some creatures, recast Dictate, and ended up casting Grave Pact. Carrion Feeder and Phyrexian Reclamation let me continue making use of dies triggers. Archon of Justice allowed me to exile a couple problematic permanents when I needed. I did end up misplaying and I let Sen Triplets untap before getting rid of their general. This meant they got to cast my hand. I flashed in a couple things to give them fewer cards to take, but they still took my Ashen Rider after the bounced it to my hand. I forgot Sen Triplets also prevents me from activating abilities or I could have stopped that. All in all, it was just sloppy playing on my part. In the end it didn't really hurt me though.
I got back to my turn and both opponents had a lot of creatures. I was able to sac a creature to make them each sac 4 creatures. I did this a couple of times to "wrath" their boards. Daxos tried to cast Teferi's Protection to save his stuff, but I just sacrificed more creatures in response.
From the board state I had, they were able to do very little about it. In the end, I was able to outvalue them and use my board to prevent them from gaining a foothold and it was pretty easy to win the game once they ran out of resources. I have been finding that I am constantly getting plenty of cards in hand. For example, one turn I drew 8 cards and another I drew 11 and I think I missed an extra trigger from Solemn there. And my opponents are needing to spend a lot of resources to keep me in check. Since I have a lot of things that need answers and a lot of recursion and card advantage, it makes it tough for them to get ahead of me once I get going. As mentioned, the game above actually started off slow because of a few missed land drops, but I was able to recover from that nicely (with a big help from the Sword obviously).
I don't remember when it happened above, but I did get Hallowed Spiritkeeper on the field and it died to give me 22 tokens. With Teysa, Orzhov Scion, I was able to exile a few problematic creatures with this as well (I think at that time, Daxos was finally able to get rid of my enchantments).
At one point in the game, I decided to discard Yosei to hand size rather than go for the Yosei lock. Again, I only had two opponents so the power is better here than against three opponents. But also, it is not a fun way to win or to play so I wanted to see if I could win without it. While winning with Grave Pact/Dictate to keep the board clear might be toeing the line of "fun" at least it offers the possibility of interaction. More so than Yosei does anyway.
Also, I am starting to think False Prophet is a mistake in this deck. I like the effect and it is here has a sort of nuclear option if I need it. But the corner case of potentially exiling my own things, even with the sac outlets I have, may be a big issue as I don't want my stuff exiled. Unfortunately, I don't really have a good alternative since I want a creature that can act as mass removal and the only other ones that would potentially work have a high cost associated with them. I haven't really found the need to wrath the board usually anyway so maybe I am trying to account for a problem that won't come up a lot.
Maybe Academy Rector (which doesn't work with Teysa) or Lost Auramancers (which does work with Teysa) might be worth including. The 2 big enchantments I care about are Grave Pact and Dictate, but there are others as well. Even though the Auramancers is slower and less reliable, getting two triggers off Teysa and being able to recur it might make it worth it. I think I will try to give that a try.
As of now, my possible cuts are:
As of now, I really only have Lost Auramancers as a possible inclusion. Going back to a suggestion by Pokken, I might add in Oreskos Explorer for now. I am willing to see how it plays, it fixes mana, and ensures I hit land drops. With the issue I had with missing land drops in the game above, it might be worth running it even though it is not ramp. In any case, I think it is probably better than the 4 cards above and can smooth out the game a little for me.
Jan 13, 2019Anything that has a dies trigger from itself dying will trigger twice with Teysa out. The way dies triggers work is that they need to look back in time to right before it died to determine if anything should trigger. It sees that it had a trigger when it was a permanent, so it triggers as a permanent.Posted in: Magic Rulings
Dies triggers do not trigger from the graveyard (which is why Yixlid Jailer does not stop them) so they must trigger from the battlefield. And on the battlefield, they are permanents.
Also, as less of a rules reason and more of a common sense reason, she is an Orzhov Legendary in a set where the Orzhov Mechanic is a dies trigger and it wouldn't make a lot of sense for her not to work with her guild's mechanic.
Jan 11, 2019This should be in the Rulings forum (you will get a much faster response that way and that is the right place for Rules questions).Posted in: Commander (EDH)
1) Yes, you need to exile a new card if there is one in the graveyard.
2) It is a new object so it will not "see" any cards exiled from any previous incarnations.
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