Thanks for the feedback, Dennis. Good to see a familiar name.
Surge Node somehow escaped my eye when I was searching through charge counter cards. I don't know whether it would be "better" than Energy Chamber but in initial testing Chamber has felt like the most important piece of the deck. I may end up running both since getting a consistent stream of charge counters on to rocks is pretty important to the deck's gameplan. Node would also give Conduit something to eat, since right now it often sits there with nothing to do since nothing has any counters. I think I'll try it out.
Board the Weatherlight is a card I've considered. I'm skeptical that it's worth the cost, but I'm willing to give it a whirl. I'm just not sure where to trim to make room for this and Node. I might be able to afford cutting the Wraths and moving them to the board. Will need to do more testing.
Reactor was the initial win con, but it was just too slow and didn't otherwise do anything. It was basically a 4 mana Darksteel Relic unless I had the game practically wrapped up (Conduit+Fall+Prison). Ballista is worth considering too, since it is flexible enough to come down early and shoot annoying creatures. I might consider giving that some run, but I do like the ability to Emrakul my graveyard back into my library to make Atlas a legitimate win con.
I do like Elspeth, I'm just having problems finding room as is with cards that have better synergy. Worth keeping in the back of my mind, but I need to do more tinkering with the heart before jamming in extra win cons.
Dominaria has really gotten my wheels turning, and as some of you may know the first card I tried to break was Mox Amber. I'm an exclusively mono white player, so it's possible that a blue mage can better utilize Amber, but after trying a myriad of different decks, my conclusion is that Amber is too fair to break. So, it's on to the next, and the next is Fall of the Thran.
Full disclosure: I love prison decks. Specifically, I love prison decks with a lot of moving parts. Unfortunately, Lantern Control isn't feasible in mono white, but I've been working on a mono white artifact control/prison list utilizing some synergies that others have known about for some time but that I'm only now discovering, and I've been having extremely positive results in admittedly sparse online testing. Here's the 60:
A quick word about the name of the deck: the deck itself started out different than it is now, but the heart of the gameplan was the same: Fall of the Thran plus Ghostly Prison. I started calling the deck Thran Stax before immediately realizing it sounded just like Anthrax. If this is already the name of another, more prominent deck, my bad.
Anyway, about the deck. If this deck turns out to continue producing positive results, I may make a full-blown guide to gameplay, but for now I'll just elaborate on the basics. First, plan A is to ramp out Fall of the Thran and combine it with Power Conduit, which will allow you to reset Fall to 0 lore counters, essentially Armageddoning every turn. Since you have mana rocks and Darksteel Citadels, this should favor you. Combined with even just 1 Ghostly Prison, creature-based decks can no longer attack you, and most decks have a hard time continuing the game with a maximum of 1 mana per turn. If you can achieve this lock before dying, you're in good shape. You have Wraths to help you get there, as well as a surprisingly powerful card drawing engine in Otherworld Atlas. You have cards that add/move counters meaning you can quickly begin drawing several cards a turn, digging you to a Thran, and you can even then move a counter from Atlas to a rock to give you that 1 extra mana you might need to cast it. Atlas also doubles as a win condition. Since the effect is symmetrical, you can cause your opponent to draw their deck before you thanks to discarding Emrakul during cleanup, replenishing your library with what used to be your graveyard. Emrakul of course serves as a fine win con on his/her/its own, since it is not unusual to get your mana rocks to 6+ counters thanks to the Coretappers and Energy Chambers. Combine a 6 counter Cornucopia with a Voltaic Key or 2 and it's really not hard at all to hardcast Emmy. Of course, that's assuming your opponent hasn't scooped by then.
This deck is, in a word, hilarious. As is typical of my decks starting out, I don't have a ready made sideboard yet, but Disenchant of some kind will be key to protect against Stony Silence, which is devastating. Chalice of the Void might make an appearance, as might Leyline of Sanctity, since in theory the deck is weak to combo if it doesn't land Fall in time.
Looking forward to comments/suggestions. In anticipation of the "where is Hex Parasite/Leyline of the Void to go with Fall, I have tried them, and found that Leyline doesn't fit this basic shell, and Parasite used to be where Mox is now, but I found the mana ramp more relevant, plus Parasite has no real purpose without Fall in play. Power Conduit without Fall in play certainly isn't spectacular, but if you have, say, an Everflowing Chalice with 1 counter and a Cornucopia on 0, they effectively both have a counter since you can tap Chalice for 1, Conduit the counter over to Cornucopia, and tap Cornucopia for 1.
@amicdeep: Amber is definitely not consistent in this deck, but I'm intentionally sacrificing consistency for explosive potential. I think I can get more consistent usage out of Amber in an aggro Death and Taxes build, which I'm also working on, where there are a lot more legends, but I'm enjoying trying something out that occasionally dumps its hand on Turn 1. Glint Hawk is generally a free 2/2 flier since it is usually picking up Opal or Amber and allowing you to cast another threat. Exemplar is admittedly kind of meh, but it's been better than Boros Elite and Ardent Recruit. Plating is interesting, but the more overlap there is between this deck and Affinity, the more I feel like I should just play Affinity. Mikaeus is also interesting as a sort of Steel Overseer, and I may try him out as a 1-of. Blue could be good, but I really like having the consistent access to red for now for Bomat Courier, which has proven to be fairly relevant in testing. I also generally play mono-White with a little bit of cheat room for things like Bomat Courier where he doesn't actually cost Red (this is due to budgetary reasons which I won't get into, but suffice to say I'm essentially strictly a mono-White player).
@izzetmage: Completely correct on basics, and a rather boneheaded oversight on my part. I've changed the manabase to include basics and Eiganjo Castle. I'm not sold on main deck removal, though. I do find myself boarding in Dispatch occasionally, but between the main deck evasion and super go-wide strategy of the deck, I've found problem blockers to be less problematic than against most of the other White Weenie decks I've played. As for swapping out Amber, it is something I've considered, but again there's the question of if the deck is 3/4 Affinity, why don't I just play Affinity? Ultimately the answer may simply be "there is no good reason, just play Affinity," but for now I'm finding the deck different enough to justify tinkering with for now. I did originally try Darksteel Citadel, but not tapping for White is brutal if I'm going to keep as many White threats as I plan on running for now.
@Talionis: Hope of Ghirapur doesn't turn on Mox Amber, but it is a card I've strongly considered on its own merit. It may still be something I put in the board, but for now it hasn't come up as relevant enough to displace the other choices. More testing is needed, though. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Mikaeus is a potential 1-drop, but as I mentioned to amicdeep, I've considered him and am still considering him. G-Blast is good, but see my comment to amicdeep about my not playing off-White cards. I agree about Anafenza and Thalia, although I do think they work better in an aggro Death and Taxes shell withe Big Thalia, Brimaz, and possibly even Horoki, Dust Drinker. Jim Davis was streaming a mostly White Erayo/Quest deck the other day that did look interesting. I've also been tinkering with a mono-White Quest deck that is essentially this deck with Tempered Steel swapped out for Quests and some Argentum Armors replacing 2 lands. It's still experimentation time as I try to find the best (or at least my favorite) home for Mox Amber in mono White. I appreciate the suggestions, though,
*I'm working on a sideboard, but it will likely be 3 4-ofs with 1 3-of, with things like Burrenton Forge-Tender and Wear.
So, Dominaria brought Mox Amber, causing many of us to go searching Gatherer for 1-drops and puking in our mouths when we saw what was available. Ever the White Weenie player at heart, I saw Kytheon and Isamaru and thought there might be something there. Add to that the desperate desire to play something called 8 Mox, and I started toying with what you see before you. Note: I recognize that there are many decks that will go by the name 8 Mox, so I don't pretend to have anything remotely approaching ownership of that name. I haven't seen this particular deck put out anywhere, though, which is why I created a separate thread for it. If it's out there and I missed it, please delete.
As you can tell from the land count and mana curve, this is an all-in deck. Think Affinity without the payoff cards, but with a more consistent (?) explosive start. It's common to play 5 permanents on turn 1, and not unreasonable to dump your entire hand. Turn 3 kills happen with encouraging frequency, turn 4 is generally academic, and technically turn 2 is possible on the draw (triple 0-cost artifact creatures at least 2 of which are Memnite, double Signal Pest, 2 land, Mox Opal, Tempered Steel as your opening 7 plus 2 draws).
This deck has been a ton of fun. Is it good? ... I don't know, and at this stage that's a good thing. Usually I can tell early on that my brews are heaping piles of garbage. This one feels different. We might be on to something here.
Shout-outs to Ardent Recruit and Boros Elite for moving in and out of the deck as I tinker with it. Also, the red is there strictly for Bomat Courier, but if you wanted to make this a true Boros deck I wouldn't blame you.
I remember a while back you were streaming a DnT version running Tocatli Honor Guard and eschewing the traditional ETB plan. What were the results of your experiment? I keep finding myself wanting to build a Wisp-less Vryn Wingmare heavy version of Taxes, but I don't know the meta well enough to have any idea whether losses would be because the deck is terrible or just that I'm terrible.
Also, are we anticipating UG Merfolk to see a significant uptick post-Rivals? My heart says no, but my head says I might need to play a different deck until the Merfolk wave subsides. Thoughts?
I thought I had brewed up something fun and original. Imagine my surprise when I found this thread already existed!
Anyway, I've been having a shocking amount of success on MTGO tourney practice with a similar version of this deck, enough so that I'm considering trying a few competitive leagues and even taking it to SCG Baltimore's Modern Classic this Sunday. Here's the 75 I'm running:
So far it's been a blast to play. I really like having Approach as the main win-con, since it means the lifegain the opponent gets from Wall of Shards is meaningless. Also, 32 cards are Snow, meaning we can get some serious value off of Scrying Sheets, which also means getting to 7 mana is normally trivial. Theoretically I think a 2/2 split of Wrath and Day of Judgment is correct to get around Meddling Mage, but I have 4 Beta Wraths sitting around begging to be used in tournament play.
After (yet another) long hiatus from Magic, I find myself being drawn back in, and after dabbling around with a few mono-White combo lists, I inevitably find myself crawling back to good ol' Death and Taxes. All it took was a few games of Arbiter/GQing someone to death to remind me that I hate my opponents and would rather subject them to merciless suffering rather than instantly ending the game (no, I don't actually hate my opponents. But man do I love me some prison-type gameplay).
I've been trying to catch up with the direction mono-White D&T has gone, especially with the summer of strong finishes, and I was surprised to see that there was essentially consensus on the Inspector/Splicer/Resto/Copter build. Inspector was just starting to make the rounds the last time I was active, and while back then I called it the White Elvish Visionary, nowadays I'm not really into ripping timely late game topdecks. Same goes for Splicer/Resto and even *gasp!* Wisp. It occurred to me that the only times I was ever truly happy playing a Wisp is when I was Vialing it in EOT to take the opponent off of colored mana. Same goes for Resto: if I wasn't playing a Resto targeting Wisp EOT to do the same thing, it just didn't feel like I was doing what *I* wanted to accomplish. Sure, Restoing Splicer is often a game-winning play, but I think there's something to be said for playing a deck that suits your style.
With that, I present the following 60 that I have been trying out on MTGO recently:
Frankly, I wouldn't call this Death and Taxes. Maybe just... Taxes. There's a lot of cards missing from traditional D&T (the 0 Wisps should be a dead giveaway that this pile is quite different), and there's a lot of 4-ofs that see 2-of play in traditional builds at best. The basic game plan is pretty simple: win the mana denial game at all costs from the get-go, or just lose. You're really aiming to keep your opponent at a perpetual turn 2-ish state. As for the win con: it's literally just attacking for 2, 3, 4, 5 a turn a bunch of times.
Those of you who remember me know that I tend to take my own approach to D&T, and this is just the latest, albeit most extreme, example. As you can see, I haven't posted a sideboard, as I'm still trying to work my way through learning the current metagame. Ah, I should also mention that I put this 60 together without the metagame in mind: I expect to struggle mightily against primarily creature decks, but even then mana denial plus some first strikers on the ground might be enough to let your fliers get through.
Glad to be back. I might take this list, or some version of it, to the next SCG Classic nearby, which I think is the weekend for Halloween, so I'll have more to discuss then.
For all of you who have joined the forum in the last 9 months or so, allow me to introduce myself.
For all of you old-timers, it's time for my annual "I've been cheating on D&T with another deck but I'm back!" post.
I've been playing D&T off and on for probably the past 2 years. I also dabble in aggressive white weenie decks as well as the occasional Enduring Ideal. I'm essentially a mono-white player, partly by choice and partly by budget. After a long 9 months of playing nothing but 1-drops, I'm ready to get back to doing some thinking while I play Magic.
Over the last week or so I've been trying to put myself through the D&T paces and build back up some muscle memory, and here's the 75 I've currently landed on:
I've been trying to catch back up on the forum, but there's so much information dedicated to the various multi-color versions nowadays that it's been tough to find what I'm looking for. Sadly, it looks like a lot of my favorite cards that I've run in the past (I'm looking at you, Judge's Familiar and Aven Mindcensor) have fallen out of favor, so I've got some catching up to do. Anyway, I've been having some moderate success in the tournament practice room of MTGO with the above list. I'll try to stay active on the forum to the extent I can. I'm also pulling a catmix/spiderspace and have started streaming a bit. I'll try to stream some D&T when I can. I figure it can't hurt to have even more content out there for us!
EDIT: Whoa, when did they finally start accepting AEther Vial as an appropriate spelling?! This is awesome!
As I said a ways back, I think mono-White Humans simply outclasses the Goyfs deck at the moment. They are strategically very similar but Humans to me has more explosive potential. The strength of Goyfs is that you have more creatures that are threats in and of themselves, but there are way too many Savannah Lions-heavy draws that a turn 4 Thalia's Lieutenant will rescue you from but a turn 4 Steppe Lynx won't.
I've been tinkering around again with the Paul Rietzl-esque version of Goyfs that I posted about a ways back that I took to day 2 at GP Charlotte. This is the 75 I've been playing online, and been having modest success with:
Basically you're taking the standalone threats from Goyfs and backing them up with armies-in-a-can and anthems. In this version, it's often even more important than before to leave mana up.
@VidarThor: Haven't tested Thalia's Lieutenant in anything other than mono-Humans. It could probably work fine, but of course you're going to get some super awkward draws that are just unavoidable.
@AggieSnake: I don't like running fetchlands purely for the sake of deck thinning. There's a really good article out there that I can't link to off the top of my head that discusses exactly this. In a mono humans list, I'm already recommending you go down to 17 land. If you really want additional thinning I would consider something like Flagstones of Trokair instead.
You know my thoughts on Thalia, so I won't rehash them. I just want to make clear that I think she's a reasonable choice, it's just that, based on my experience, she works against the deck a little more than she works for it.
I'm not sure about Thalia's Lieutenant. I haven't tested it without running all Humans, so I don't know how awkwardly she plays with Lynx and Figure. Probably not much of a problem, but it could be a little more inconsistent than you want.
Grand Abolisher is a card that I've toyed with in the past, and while the effect seems awesome on paper, it never quite works out as well as you want it to. It's similar to a card like True Believer or Ethersworn Canonist in that you have high expectations for how much work it will put in against certain decks, but then it severely underperforms against the rest of the field. 2 power for 2 mana is just such a hard sell for such an aggressive deck as this. I can see the idea of starting out hyper-aggressive and then becoming more disruptive to close out, but in my experience it rarely works out the way you want it to.
As for Auriok Champion, I think it's far too passive a card for a deck like this.
All that being said, the best thing you can do is test for yourself, and see what works and what doesn't. If I remember right, I think the Auriok Champions are pricey enough that I would straight up recommend not trying them out, but I think the others are either cheap enough or likely to find homes in other decks you play to give a whirl. As for possible replacements, if you really want to keep up with 2 drops, consider things like Accorder Paladin or Knight of the White Orchid or possibly Honor of the Pure (yes, I advocated against it in the comments to my article, but it's still a reasonable choice).
As for the sideboard, I think everything you listed is fine except for Pacifism. 2 mana is a bit too much for extra removal, and it's not clear to me what you're trying to neuter that something like Path or Dismember won't take care of more efficiently.
For anyone still interested in the deck (the original one with Steppe Lynxes and Figures of Destiny), I'm starting to give streaming a try. Feel free to drop by if you see me online, as I'll most likely be streaming Goyfs. You can find me at https://www.twitch.tv/hoolawgaming.
In fact, if I can I'm going to try to stream a little bit tonight, maybe around 10:00pm EST (4 and a half hours from now). Hope to see you guys there!
OP, just one question, wht did you drop the Student of Warfare to only 3 copies???? A 3 mana investment for a 3/3 First Strike that can grow bigger thanks to the Lieutenant. Also, I'm not all sure about the Thraben Inspector. It's just a little card advantage in the form of the clue, but it dosen't apply any pressure on the oponent. Wouldn't be better to have extra removal in those slots, or anoter 2/1 for 1???
I have found that having multiple copies of Student early on is a liability. An opening hand with 2 Students likely means you have to play one on turn 2, which may commit you to pumping mana into him turn 3, which you may not be able to effectively do if you also want to leave one open for Brave/Tithe. A 3/3 first strike for 3 is exciting: a 1/1 vanilla for 1 (and 2 if you can't get him to 3 right away) is not.
Inspector is a card I was down on when I saw it in other people's lists, but it impressed me when I actually played with the card. It's a pretty decent top deck, and actually isn't bad to play on turn 2. The second point of toughness can be surprisingly relevant sometimes, and the clue token means you're never upset when someone has to use a removal spell on it or trade a creature with it. Heck, you're not even that upset when you suicide it in to flip Kytheon. I'm not saying it's the best, which is why I only run 3 copies of it, but I think it's a lot better than running more removal (I'm honestly not even sure we need the Paths main). If they were to print another 2/1 for 1 with a relevant ability, I would probably run that instead, but if Dragon Hunter is the best that's left, I'll just play the Human version of Elvish Visionary instead.
For this deck? Ajani. Brimaz might have my vote for best standalone 3-drop White creature in Modern, but he's best in a good-stuff type build, which this deck is not. Ajani directly and immediately interacts with your turn 1 and 2 plays (Turn 1 Lynx, turn 2 Lynx Lynx swing for 4, turn 3 Ajani swing for 16 anyone?), so if you're looking to add one, Ajani would have my vote.
Surge Node somehow escaped my eye when I was searching through charge counter cards. I don't know whether it would be "better" than Energy Chamber but in initial testing Chamber has felt like the most important piece of the deck. I may end up running both since getting a consistent stream of charge counters on to rocks is pretty important to the deck's gameplan. Node would also give Conduit something to eat, since right now it often sits there with nothing to do since nothing has any counters. I think I'll try it out.
Board the Weatherlight is a card I've considered. I'm skeptical that it's worth the cost, but I'm willing to give it a whirl. I'm just not sure where to trim to make room for this and Node. I might be able to afford cutting the Wraths and moving them to the board. Will need to do more testing.
Reactor was the initial win con, but it was just too slow and didn't otherwise do anything. It was basically a 4 mana Darksteel Relic unless I had the game practically wrapped up (Conduit+Fall+Prison). Ballista is worth considering too, since it is flexible enough to come down early and shoot annoying creatures. I might consider giving that some run, but I do like the ability to Emrakul my graveyard back into my library to make Atlas a legitimate win con.
I do like Elspeth, I'm just having problems finding room as is with cards that have better synergy. Worth keeping in the back of my mind, but I need to do more tinkering with the heart before jamming in extra win cons.
Full disclosure: I love prison decks. Specifically, I love prison decks with a lot of moving parts. Unfortunately, Lantern Control isn't feasible in mono white, but I've been working on a mono white artifact control/prison list utilizing some synergies that others have known about for some time but that I'm only now discovering, and I've been having extremely positive results in admittedly sparse online testing. Here's the 60:
4 Darksteel Citadel
12 Plains
Artifact Ramp
4 Mox Opal
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Coretapper
4 Energy Chamber
4 Power Conduit
3 Voltaic Key
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Wrath of God
4 Fall of the Thran
Value/Win cons
3 Otherworld Atlas
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
A quick word about the name of the deck: the deck itself started out different than it is now, but the heart of the gameplan was the same: Fall of the Thran plus Ghostly Prison. I started calling the deck Thran Stax before immediately realizing it sounded just like Anthrax. If this is already the name of another, more prominent deck, my bad.
Anyway, about the deck. If this deck turns out to continue producing positive results, I may make a full-blown guide to gameplay, but for now I'll just elaborate on the basics. First, plan A is to ramp out Fall of the Thran and combine it with Power Conduit, which will allow you to reset Fall to 0 lore counters, essentially Armageddoning every turn. Since you have mana rocks and Darksteel Citadels, this should favor you. Combined with even just 1 Ghostly Prison, creature-based decks can no longer attack you, and most decks have a hard time continuing the game with a maximum of 1 mana per turn. If you can achieve this lock before dying, you're in good shape. You have Wraths to help you get there, as well as a surprisingly powerful card drawing engine in Otherworld Atlas. You have cards that add/move counters meaning you can quickly begin drawing several cards a turn, digging you to a Thran, and you can even then move a counter from Atlas to a rock to give you that 1 extra mana you might need to cast it. Atlas also doubles as a win condition. Since the effect is symmetrical, you can cause your opponent to draw their deck before you thanks to discarding Emrakul during cleanup, replenishing your library with what used to be your graveyard. Emrakul of course serves as a fine win con on his/her/its own, since it is not unusual to get your mana rocks to 6+ counters thanks to the Coretappers and Energy Chambers. Combine a 6 counter Cornucopia with a Voltaic Key or 2 and it's really not hard at all to hardcast Emmy. Of course, that's assuming your opponent hasn't scooped by then.
This deck is, in a word, hilarious. As is typical of my decks starting out, I don't have a ready made sideboard yet, but Disenchant of some kind will be key to protect against Stony Silence, which is devastating. Chalice of the Void might make an appearance, as might Leyline of Sanctity, since in theory the deck is weak to combo if it doesn't land Fall in time.
Looking forward to comments/suggestions. In anticipation of the "where is Hex Parasite/Leyline of the Void to go with Fall, I have tried them, and found that Leyline doesn't fit this basic shell, and Parasite used to be where Mox is now, but I found the mana ramp more relevant, plus Parasite has no real purpose without Fall in play. Power Conduit without Fall in play certainly isn't spectacular, but if you have, say, an Everflowing Chalice with 1 counter and a Cornucopia on 0, they effectively both have a counter since you can tap Chalice for 1, Conduit the counter over to Cornucopia, and tap Cornucopia for 1.
@amicdeep: Amber is definitely not consistent in this deck, but I'm intentionally sacrificing consistency for explosive potential. I think I can get more consistent usage out of Amber in an aggro Death and Taxes build, which I'm also working on, where there are a lot more legends, but I'm enjoying trying something out that occasionally dumps its hand on Turn 1. Glint Hawk is generally a free 2/2 flier since it is usually picking up Opal or Amber and allowing you to cast another threat. Exemplar is admittedly kind of meh, but it's been better than Boros Elite and Ardent Recruit. Plating is interesting, but the more overlap there is between this deck and Affinity, the more I feel like I should just play Affinity. Mikaeus is also interesting as a sort of Steel Overseer, and I may try him out as a 1-of. Blue could be good, but I really like having the consistent access to red for now for Bomat Courier, which has proven to be fairly relevant in testing. I also generally play mono-White with a little bit of cheat room for things like Bomat Courier where he doesn't actually cost Red (this is due to budgetary reasons which I won't get into, but suffice to say I'm essentially strictly a mono-White player).
@izzetmage: Completely correct on basics, and a rather boneheaded oversight on my part. I've changed the manabase to include basics and Eiganjo Castle. I'm not sold on main deck removal, though. I do find myself boarding in Dispatch occasionally, but between the main deck evasion and super go-wide strategy of the deck, I've found problem blockers to be less problematic than against most of the other White Weenie decks I've played. As for swapping out Amber, it is something I've considered, but again there's the question of if the deck is 3/4 Affinity, why don't I just play Affinity? Ultimately the answer may simply be "there is no good reason, just play Affinity," but for now I'm finding the deck different enough to justify tinkering with for now. I did originally try Darksteel Citadel, but not tapping for White is brutal if I'm going to keep as many White threats as I plan on running for now.
@Talionis: Hope of Ghirapur doesn't turn on Mox Amber, but it is a card I've strongly considered on its own merit. It may still be something I put in the board, but for now it hasn't come up as relevant enough to displace the other choices. More testing is needed, though. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Mikaeus is a potential 1-drop, but as I mentioned to amicdeep, I've considered him and am still considering him. G-Blast is good, but see my comment to amicdeep about my not playing off-White cards. I agree about Anafenza and Thalia, although I do think they work better in an aggro Death and Taxes shell withe Big Thalia, Brimaz, and possibly even Horoki, Dust Drinker. Jim Davis was streaming a mostly White Erayo/Quest deck the other day that did look interesting. I've also been tinkering with a mono-White Quest deck that is essentially this deck with Tempered Steel swapped out for Quests and some Argentum Armors replacing 2 lands. It's still experimentation time as I try to find the best (or at least my favorite) home for Mox Amber in mono White. I appreciate the suggestions, though,
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Inspiring Vantage
3 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Mox Opal
4 Mox Amber
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Bomat Courier
4 Court Homunculus
4 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Isamaru, Hound of Kondar
4 Glint Hawk
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Tempered Steel
*I'm working on a sideboard, but it will likely be 3 4-ofs with 1 3-of, with things like Burrenton Forge-Tender and Wear.
So, Dominaria brought Mox Amber, causing many of us to go searching Gatherer for 1-drops and puking in our mouths when we saw what was available. Ever the White Weenie player at heart, I saw Kytheon and Isamaru and thought there might be something there. Add to that the desperate desire to play something called 8 Mox, and I started toying with what you see before you. Note: I recognize that there are many decks that will go by the name 8 Mox, so I don't pretend to have anything remotely approaching ownership of that name. I haven't seen this particular deck put out anywhere, though, which is why I created a separate thread for it. If it's out there and I missed it, please delete.
As you can tell from the land count and mana curve, this is an all-in deck. Think Affinity without the payoff cards, but with a more consistent (?) explosive start. It's common to play 5 permanents on turn 1, and not unreasonable to dump your entire hand. Turn 3 kills happen with encouraging frequency, turn 4 is generally academic, and technically turn 2 is possible on the draw (triple 0-cost artifact creatures at least 2 of which are Memnite, double Signal Pest, 2 land, Mox Opal, Tempered Steel as your opening 7 plus 2 draws).
This deck has been a ton of fun. Is it good? ... I don't know, and at this stage that's a good thing. Usually I can tell early on that my brews are heaping piles of garbage. This one feels different. We might be on to something here.
Shout-outs to Ardent Recruit and Boros Elite for moving in and out of the deck as I tinker with it. Also, the red is there strictly for Bomat Courier, but if you wanted to make this a true Boros deck I wouldn't blame you.
I remember a while back you were streaming a DnT version running Tocatli Honor Guard and eschewing the traditional ETB plan. What were the results of your experiment? I keep finding myself wanting to build a Wisp-less Vryn Wingmare heavy version of Taxes, but I don't know the meta well enough to have any idea whether losses would be because the deck is terrible or just that I'm terrible.
Also, are we anticipating UG Merfolk to see a significant uptick post-Rivals? My heart says no, but my head says I might need to play a different deck until the Merfolk wave subsides. Thoughts?
Anyway, I've been having a shocking amount of success on MTGO tourney practice with a similar version of this deck, enough so that I'm considering trying a few competitive leagues and even taking it to SCG Baltimore's Modern Classic this Sunday. Here's the 75 I'm running:
20 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets
Creatures
4 Wall of Omens
4 Wall of Shards
Gideons
4 Gideon of the Trials
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 Gideon Jura
4 Path to Exile
4 Coldsteel Heart
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Wrath of God
2 Approach of the Second Sun
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sundering Growth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Runed Halo
1 Rule of Law
So far it's been a blast to play. I really like having Approach as the main win-con, since it means the lifegain the opponent gets from Wall of Shards is meaningless. Also, 32 cards are Snow, meaning we can get some serious value off of Scrying Sheets, which also means getting to 7 mana is normally trivial. Theoretically I think a 2/2 split of Wrath and Day of Judgment is correct to get around Meddling Mage, but I have 4 Beta Wraths sitting around begging to be used in tournament play.
After (yet another) long hiatus from Magic, I find myself being drawn back in, and after dabbling around with a few mono-White combo lists, I inevitably find myself crawling back to good ol' Death and Taxes. All it took was a few games of Arbiter/GQing someone to death to remind me that I hate my opponents and would rather subject them to merciless suffering rather than instantly ending the game (no, I don't actually hate my opponents. But man do I love me some prison-type gameplay).
I've been trying to catch up with the direction mono-White D&T has gone, especially with the summer of strong finishes, and I was surprised to see that there was essentially consensus on the Inspector/Splicer/Resto/Copter build. Inspector was just starting to make the rounds the last time I was active, and while back then I called it the White Elvish Visionary, nowadays I'm not really into ripping timely late game topdecks. Same goes for Splicer/Resto and even *gasp!* Wisp. It occurred to me that the only times I was ever truly happy playing a Wisp is when I was Vialing it in EOT to take the opponent off of colored mana. Same goes for Resto: if I wasn't playing a Resto targeting Wisp EOT to do the same thing, it just didn't feel like I was doing what *I* wanted to accomplish. Sure, Restoing Splicer is often a game-winning play, but I think there's something to be said for playing a deck that suits your style.
With that, I present the following 60 that I have been trying out on MTGO recently:
8 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Field of Ruin
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Frankly, I wouldn't call this Death and Taxes. Maybe just... Taxes. There's a lot of cards missing from traditional D&T (the 0 Wisps should be a dead giveaway that this pile is quite different), and there's a lot of 4-ofs that see 2-of play in traditional builds at best. The basic game plan is pretty simple: win the mana denial game at all costs from the get-go, or just lose. You're really aiming to keep your opponent at a perpetual turn 2-ish state. As for the win con: it's literally just attacking for 2, 3, 4, 5 a turn a bunch of times.
Those of you who remember me know that I tend to take my own approach to D&T, and this is just the latest, albeit most extreme, example. As you can see, I haven't posted a sideboard, as I'm still trying to work my way through learning the current metagame. Ah, I should also mention that I put this 60 together without the metagame in mind: I expect to struggle mightily against primarily creature decks, but even then mana denial plus some first strikers on the ground might be enough to let your fliers get through.
Glad to be back. I might take this list, or some version of it, to the next SCG Classic nearby, which I think is the weekend for Halloween, so I'll have more to discuss then.
For all of you old-timers, it's time for my annual "I've been cheating on D&T with another deck but I'm back!" post.
I've been playing D&T off and on for probably the past 2 years. I also dabble in aggressive white weenie decks as well as the occasional Enduring Ideal. I'm essentially a mono-white player, partly by choice and partly by budget. After a long 9 months of playing nothing but 1-drops, I'm ready to get back to doing some thinking while I play Magic.
Over the last week or so I've been trying to put myself through the D&T paces and build back up some muscle memory, and here's the 75 I've currently landed on:
11 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mutavault
Non-creatures
4 Path to Exile
4 AEther Vial
Creatures
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Spellskite
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Blade Splicer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Restoration Angel
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stony Silence
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Sundering Growth
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Dismember
1 Wrath of God
I've been trying to catch back up on the forum, but there's so much information dedicated to the various multi-color versions nowadays that it's been tough to find what I'm looking for. Sadly, it looks like a lot of my favorite cards that I've run in the past (I'm looking at you, Judge's Familiar and Aven Mindcensor) have fallen out of favor, so I've got some catching up to do. Anyway, I've been having some moderate success in the tournament practice room of MTGO with the above list. I'll try to stay active on the forum to the extent I can. I'm also pulling a catmix/spiderspace and have started streaming a bit. I'll try to stream some D&T when I can. I figure it can't hurt to have even more content out there for us!
EDIT: Whoa, when did they finally start accepting AEther Vial as an appropriate spelling?! This is awesome!
I've been tinkering around again with the Paul Rietzl-esque version of Goyfs that I posted about a ways back that I took to day 2 at GP Charlotte. This is the 75 I've been playing online, and been having modest success with:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
8 Plains
Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Student of Warfare
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Brave the Elements
4 Path to Exile
2 Mana Tithe
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Spectral Procession
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Dismember
2 Celestial Flare
2 Sundering Growth
Basically you're taking the standalone threats from Goyfs and backing them up with armies-in-a-can and anthems. In this version, it's often even more important than before to leave mana up.
@AggieSnake: I don't like running fetchlands purely for the sake of deck thinning. There's a really good article out there that I can't link to off the top of my head that discusses exactly this. In a mono humans list, I'm already recommending you go down to 17 land. If you really want additional thinning I would consider something like Flagstones of Trokair instead.
You know my thoughts on Thalia, so I won't rehash them. I just want to make clear that I think she's a reasonable choice, it's just that, based on my experience, she works against the deck a little more than she works for it.
I'm not sure about Thalia's Lieutenant. I haven't tested it without running all Humans, so I don't know how awkwardly she plays with Lynx and Figure. Probably not much of a problem, but it could be a little more inconsistent than you want.
Grand Abolisher is a card that I've toyed with in the past, and while the effect seems awesome on paper, it never quite works out as well as you want it to. It's similar to a card like True Believer or Ethersworn Canonist in that you have high expectations for how much work it will put in against certain decks, but then it severely underperforms against the rest of the field. 2 power for 2 mana is just such a hard sell for such an aggressive deck as this. I can see the idea of starting out hyper-aggressive and then becoming more disruptive to close out, but in my experience it rarely works out the way you want it to.
As for Auriok Champion, I think it's far too passive a card for a deck like this.
All that being said, the best thing you can do is test for yourself, and see what works and what doesn't. If I remember right, I think the Auriok Champions are pricey enough that I would straight up recommend not trying them out, but I think the others are either cheap enough or likely to find homes in other decks you play to give a whirl. As for possible replacements, if you really want to keep up with 2 drops, consider things like Accorder Paladin or Knight of the White Orchid or possibly Honor of the Pure (yes, I advocated against it in the comments to my article, but it's still a reasonable choice).
As for the sideboard, I think everything you listed is fine except for Pacifism. 2 mana is a bit too much for extra removal, and it's not clear to me what you're trying to neuter that something like Path or Dismember won't take care of more efficiently.
Thanks to everyone who dropped by the stream tonight. As promised, here's the 75 I ran:
7 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
Spells
4 Brave the Elements
2 Path to Exile
2 Mana Tithe
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Boros Elite
4 Student of Warfare
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Celestial Flare
2 Dismember
2 Sunlance
2 Nearheath Pilgrim
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
For anyone still interested in the deck (the original one with Steppe Lynxes and Figures of Destiny), I'm starting to give streaming a try. Feel free to drop by if you see me online, as I'll most likely be streaming Goyfs. You can find me at https://www.twitch.tv/hoolawgaming.
In fact, if I can I'm going to try to stream a little bit tonight, maybe around 10:00pm EST (4 and a half hours from now). Hope to see you guys there!
I have found that having multiple copies of Student early on is a liability. An opening hand with 2 Students likely means you have to play one on turn 2, which may commit you to pumping mana into him turn 3, which you may not be able to effectively do if you also want to leave one open for Brave/Tithe. A 3/3 first strike for 3 is exciting: a 1/1 vanilla for 1 (and 2 if you can't get him to 3 right away) is not.
Inspector is a card I was down on when I saw it in other people's lists, but it impressed me when I actually played with the card. It's a pretty decent top deck, and actually isn't bad to play on turn 2. The second point of toughness can be surprisingly relevant sometimes, and the clue token means you're never upset when someone has to use a removal spell on it or trade a creature with it. Heck, you're not even that upset when you suicide it in to flip Kytheon. I'm not saying it's the best, which is why I only run 3 copies of it, but I think it's a lot better than running more removal (I'm honestly not even sure we need the Paths main). If they were to print another 2/1 for 1 with a relevant ability, I would probably run that instead, but if Dragon Hunter is the best that's left, I'll just play the Human version of Elvish Visionary instead.
For this deck? Ajani. Brimaz might have my vote for best standalone 3-drop White creature in Modern, but he's best in a good-stuff type build, which this deck is not. Ajani directly and immediately interacts with your turn 1 and 2 plays (Turn 1 Lynx, turn 2 Lynx Lynx swing for 4, turn 3 Ajani swing for 16 anyone?), so if you're looking to add one, Ajani would have my vote.