Quote from Pokken »Quote from Dunharrow »
2) Second point, you said:
[quote from="Dunharrow »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/commander-rules-discussion-forum/771098-paradox-engine?comment=257"]
If I had PE showing up as often as you do, I would be playing a lot more artifact hate. Cleansing Nova, Vandalblast, Shatterstorm, even more ETB creatures that break artifacts. If everyone has 10+ artifacts these cards will always be good.
Please review the discussion in the Prophet of Kruphix thread on why "play more removal" is not the answer to every problem.
Your statement is a variant of "git gud scrub" combined with "dies to removal." You are welcome to peruse my decks but you'll find I probably play more removal than most people (with an exception for my Gitrog deck which runs just enough and my MW deck which is in the tuning phase).
When I see a Paradox engine the odds I have a piece of removal are quite high. Unfortunately, much like Prophet of Kruphix, removal is often moot against it. You can go read the various Prophet of Kruphix threads for explanations on this if you like.
You misunderstand me. Artifact hate kills the artifacts you need to have in play to go off with Paradox Engine. A turn 4 shatterstorm means that PE is unlikely to do anything should anyone play it. You also have the added benefit of disrupting people's mana.
Oh hey, I found another doozy in there I wanted to respond to:
Quote from Dunharrow »
- PE does absolutely nothing by itself. You need to follow-up with a spell to do anything with it. Meaning, it is not a good play if you have 5 mana. You need more mana or you give your opponents a whole turn cycle to deal with it. Next, if you have no mana dorks or mana rocks, PE is not broken. As creatures and artifacts are the two easiest permanents to destroy, I do not believe that, on average, people have enough of these permanents to go off. Finally, you play PE specifically to combo off. It is like High Tide. The percentage of EDH players who want to combo off is relatively low. This is why most of us do not see PE very often.
Now see these quotes from the PoK thread and see why I think there's a lot of alignment here
This is a 5 mana card that produces no mana draws no cards doesn't tutor has no etb litteraly does nothing
Prophet by itself is not a must answer. With a board and a card advantage engine it needs to die the turn it was played. A T2 PoK from Land, Manavault, Land isn't a threat, yet. A T5 PoK with Mystic Remora or Survival out is a different story, the game will end.
Its super powerful.. but its only an enabler. It doesn't do a huge amount alone it requires something else for it to abuse.
Vehemently disagree with this poster about PoK. You always had a creature to cast. All you needed for PoK to be good was cards in hand and a commander in the command zone. The main difference is also that turn 5 PoK on an empty board is a threat that needs to be answered that same turn, and PE is a turn 5 do nothing on an empty board that you can answer any time.
Sylvan primordial was banned because by itself it was too much value. Protean Hulk was unbanned. Which card is more powerful?
If you can understand why SP was banned but PH was unbanned, you will understand why PE is not in contention for banning.
'Too good in a very specific deck' is not grounds for banning. It never has and never will be.