I tried playing it for a while, but then I realized I rarely wanted to spend 6 mana to resurrect a single creature, never mind kicking it multiple times.
So... do you want a 4-mana anthem?
Doing two things poorly is rarely the recipe for a good card, but it can be great in the right niche.
So, like many of you probably, I threw Kindred Summons into a tribal deck and never looked back.
But, today, I realized, if you build your deck just right, it could act like an instant-speed discounted Tooth and Nail.
For example, if you play Wort, the Raidmother and only have 3 other goblins in the deck, then casting Kindred Summons will tutor those 3 goblins (or maybe 6, since you are probably conspiring). I am sure you can make a goblin-only infinite combo.
So my question to you is: What is the best combo you can make with Kindred Summons?
Ideally, it would involve just your commander and Kindred Summons.
C'thulhu world confirmed, complete with new 'Walker.
Yep, just spoiled:
Emrakul, Planeswalker Extraordinaire (8)
Starting Loyalty 8
+4 Exile up to 10 target permanents.
-2 Gain control of target opponent's library, then draw 14 cards.
-8 Win the next 10 sanctioned Magic: The Gathering events you sign up for.
Annihilator 12
This is so absurd I hope they print it in an Un-set sometime at some clearly bogus, rarity like mega-mythic. Well done.
I mean, I would rather if the abilities were all scary but didn't do anything:
Emrakul, Planeswalker Extraordinaire (1)
Starting Loyalty 20
+4 Exile 100 target permanents
-2 Target tapped creature gains Annihilator 12 until end of turn.
-8 Gain control of target player's next untap step.
I always have a bag of d20s.. enough for the whole table usually. Everyone tracks their life total. If I attack someone with my general for 4 damage I don't track it with a die... but I will remember that I attacked. If I attack a second time then I will suggest we track it.
In my experience, few games are ended with commander damage over multiple turns. You don't need to track it when the commander one-shots you. If my Karador is hitting you 7 times you probably should have scooped already.
I really don't think it is hard to track. You don't need an extra 12 dice per game to track commander damage. Just pull out a die when it is relevant.
There have been some situations where I will attack and say "by the way, I have already hit you twice with my Maelstrom Wanderer". It is not hard to remember a couple attacks.
I play TW in Kefnet, the Mindful. It can tutor Scavenger Grounds, Strip Mine, Mana Crypt and Pact of Negation. Very few other targets, but since Kefnet lets me pick it up late game to transmute I think it is worth it. Also worth mentioning that if you play delve spells it adds to your graveyard.
I've never played Vesuva, but it can be great if there are a lot of high powered lands in your meta, or even cards like Legion's Landing and Itlimoc, Cradle of the sun. If you don't have good targets from your opponents it better be an extra Cabal Coffers or something else high value.
Some deserts are better than others. Scavenger Grounds should be in most decks, in my opinion. I play the red and black 'pain' lands in Rakdos, Lord of Riots to help me cast Kozilek, The Great Distortion. Have not played any of the others and I think only the black pain land is marginally playable outside of a monocolor deck. The cycling lands are weaker than the other two cycles 99% of the time. Don't think it is worth running extra deserts to be able to activate Scavenger Grounds multiple times. Unless you have other benefits to running deserts I would stay away from it.
Mikokoro I play sometimes in decks that make way more mana than my opponents. If you have the mana to cast the extra spells but your opponents don't, you are going to benefit more.
Regarding undesirable game states - I am not sure that durdling forever without winning is an undesirable game state. Stopping people from being able to play is undesirable. In that sense, Winter Orb seems like a bigger offender, but is still tolerable.
I played PE in standard. If you know what you are doing, even without infinite combos, you should be able to end the game. But, in EDH, it is so easy to go infinite I would have a very serious conversation with people in your meta who are just wasting time.
I find it strange that your meta has so much PE. It is a spikey meta? I used to play at a LGS for prizes, and though I have not played there in over 2 years, I would presume that people all have 1-2 PE decks with them every night. I would call that meta a 90% meta.
cEDH plays a lot of PE, but I do not think cEDH should be considered.
Is anybody drafting these? Is it a better draft than the first set?
I'm hosting a draft in about ten days. I'm hoping that it'll be a better experience than the last time. And this time I know that Ajani and Dack are just pure traps and I'll warn the table accordingly. Seriously, who decided to put the Azorius walker in the set with Selesnya and the Selesnya walker in the set with Azorius?
Since we have more mono-color walkers this go-round, I'm anticipating that people won't be as siloed as they were last time. Might lead to a more organic-feeling draft, if only two people are opening on-guild bombs. I don't think that it'll be amazing, but I certainly expect it to be better than the trainwreck that the last one was.
I would love to have Dack in my deck. I think Gruul and Simic draft really well together.
Ajani is a bit odd since Simic and Azorius don't mix as well, but it is still doable.
I am hopping into this discussion a bit late, but if PE just leads to a combo and the end of the game, isn't it similar to many other cards that pretty much only exist to combo? PoK is not a combo card so I do not see the point in comparing the two.
PE doesn't need fun applications. It is like Food Chain. There can be fun applications, but normally people are just comboing off and that is okay.
It is not okay if it runs the format. I don't think it does.
I love PoK, and I think I have 7 or 8 copies. I played it as a 4-of for all of it's life in Standard and put it in every deck I could play it in.
You don't have to build around PoK. You can just play creatures on each opponent's turn and you will get crazy advantage. It went into every deck.
It was also super broken in a lot of decks.
I would stop playing spells and leave up removal against every UGx deck I saw once they got to 4/5 mana. You had to kill it right away, or they would untap and be able to protect it. I also think UGx decks were at least 2/3 of the meta.
I would love for the card to be unbanned. But I know that it will make EDH worse.
So... do you want a 4-mana anthem?
Doing two things poorly is rarely the recipe for a good card, but it can be great in the right niche.
But, today, I realized, if you build your deck just right, it could act like an instant-speed discounted Tooth and Nail.
For example, if you play Wort, the Raidmother and only have 3 other goblins in the deck, then casting Kindred Summons will tutor those 3 goblins (or maybe 6, since you are probably conspiring). I am sure you can make a goblin-only infinite combo.
So my question to you is: What is the best combo you can make with Kindred Summons?
Ideally, it would involve just your commander and Kindred Summons.
I mean, I would rather if the abilities were all scary but didn't do anything:
Emrakul, Planeswalker Extraordinaire (1)
Starting Loyalty 20
+4 Exile 100 target permanents
-2 Target tapped creature gains Annihilator 12 until end of turn.
-8 Gain control of target player's next untap step.
Why red or green?
In my experience, few games are ended with commander damage over multiple turns. You don't need to track it when the commander one-shots you. If my Karador is hitting you 7 times you probably should have scooped already.
I really don't think it is hard to track. You don't need an extra 12 dice per game to track commander damage. Just pull out a die when it is relevant.
There have been some situations where I will attack and say "by the way, I have already hit you twice with my Maelstrom Wanderer". It is not hard to remember a couple attacks.
I've never played Vesuva, but it can be great if there are a lot of high powered lands in your meta, or even cards like Legion's Landing and Itlimoc, Cradle of the sun. If you don't have good targets from your opponents it better be an extra Cabal Coffers or something else high value.
Some deserts are better than others. Scavenger Grounds should be in most decks, in my opinion. I play the red and black 'pain' lands in Rakdos, Lord of Riots to help me cast Kozilek, The Great Distortion. Have not played any of the others and I think only the black pain land is marginally playable outside of a monocolor deck. The cycling lands are weaker than the other two cycles 99% of the time. Don't think it is worth running extra deserts to be able to activate Scavenger Grounds multiple times. Unless you have other benefits to running deserts I would stay away from it.
Mikokoro I play sometimes in decks that make way more mana than my opponents. If you have the mana to cast the extra spells but your opponents don't, you are going to benefit more.
Haven't played the other two lands.
War's toll
Goblin Spymaster
I am still waiting to know what the charter is going to look like.
Regarding undesirable game states - I am not sure that durdling forever without winning is an undesirable game state. Stopping people from being able to play is undesirable. In that sense, Winter Orb seems like a bigger offender, but is still tolerable.
I played PE in standard. If you know what you are doing, even without infinite combos, you should be able to end the game. But, in EDH, it is so easy to go infinite I would have a very serious conversation with people in your meta who are just wasting time.
I find it strange that your meta has so much PE. It is a spikey meta? I used to play at a LGS for prizes, and though I have not played there in over 2 years, I would presume that people all have 1-2 PE decks with them every night. I would call that meta a 90% meta.
cEDH plays a lot of PE, but I do not think cEDH should be considered.
I would love to have Dack in my deck. I think Gruul and Simic draft really well together.
Ajani is a bit odd since Simic and Azorius don't mix as well, but it is still doable.
PE doesn't need fun applications. It is like Food Chain. There can be fun applications, but normally people are just comboing off and that is okay.
It is not okay if it runs the format. I don't think it does.
You don't have to build around PoK. You can just play creatures on each opponent's turn and you will get crazy advantage. It went into every deck.
It was also super broken in a lot of decks.
I would stop playing spells and leave up removal against every UGx deck I saw once they got to 4/5 mana. You had to kill it right away, or they would untap and be able to protect it. I also think UGx decks were at least 2/3 of the meta.
I would love for the card to be unbanned. But I know that it will make EDH worse.