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  • posted a message on Stopping Ad Nauseam Combo
    Some people (like me) are Spikey


    1) You're a spike
    2) You play Azusa

    Pick one.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[SCD]] Panoptic Mirror
    Yes, you did come off sounding like a jackass. But that's not what this thread is about.

    The conditions under which Panoptic Mirror was banned are woefully out-of-date and honestly, quite awful to begin with. EDH has evolved into something much better than it once was. Whether or not it "made sense" for the time hardly makes those conditions better compared to today's standards. Also, you conveniently ignored the fact that it was still 1v1 EDH - something which should never be used to test cards for multiplayer. Period.

    I'm assuming it was a one-time event because I'm assuming the RC would have elaborated further if it wasn't. Why would I do that? Because I want to assume they are intelligent. They are writing about the processes of banning cards - there's a good reason for them to say they tested it multiple times, and very little reason to stay silent of the matter if they did test it multiple times. I'm assuming the best about their lack of details and their intellect, not the worst.

    Secondly, I do not believe my analysis was shallow, but that's your opinion. You basically gave nothing to support your statement, though, so I have little trouble disregarding it.

    As for highly undesirable board states, that depends on who you're playing with. It could just as easily be argued that Deadeye Navigator, Hermit Druid, and Omniscience can lead to undesirable board states quickly, yet they are all unbanned and used occasionally.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[SCD]] Panoptic Mirror
    Quote from azn_cbc_1992
    the thing is that any strong spell on it will create unfun game states (inf turns, nonstop mld, no creatures on board and a whole slew of other abilities). in a tournament you can bet that if panoptic isnt banned, that every player and his grandmother will be running it even if its just to imprint a mana ramp card(barring specific deck builds). this card pays for itself after 2 turn cycles, and if you imprinted a mld card then you can almost guarantee that noone will be able to recover from it


    The thing is, there's plenty of other cards which can potentially create "unfun" game states when abused --

    Deadeye Navigator
    Mimic Vat
    Academy Rector + Omniscience
    Omniscience + Decree of Annihilation
    Rite of Replication + Sylvan Primordial
    Isocron Scepter + Mana Drain (+ Voltaic Key/Unwinding Clock)

    The potential for abuse is relatively low in comparison to stronger cards and combos.

    this card pays for itself after 2 turn cycles, and if you imprinted a mld card then you can almost guarantee that noone will be able to recover from it


    If you imprinted a MLD card

    1) You're already running MLD, so your group is okay with you running it.
    2) You're already winning, and this is sealing the deal.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[SCD]] Panoptic Mirror
    Panoptic Mirror's ban is explained: During Atlanta playtesting, Sheldon and Gis played 1-vs.-1 EDH with 100 life totals. After these games, they decided the card ought to go.


    Panoptic Mirror was banned under perhaps the most irresponsible, ridiculous conditions considered acceptable by any committee ever.

    1) 1v1 EDH is vastly different than normal, multiplayer EDH. Yet the ban was pertinent to multiplayer EDH.
    2) They played with modified life pools, altering the testing conditions even further away from the norm.
    3) It was a one-time test. This wasn't the conclusion of weeks of testing, rather the results of a few hours -- if that.

    Lets look at the card through the filter of the commander banlist expectations.

    Question: Does it accidentally break the game?
    Answer: No. You must consciously build your deck with both extra turn spells and Panoptic Mirror in them to cause a potential infinite combo. You must intentionally choose to imprint the time magic onto the card.

    Question: Is Panoptic Mirror too strong on its own?
    Answer: No. It is restricted to casting during the upkeep of a turn. It requires the down payment of two cards before any effect happens. Imprinting a card onto it requires the artifact to be tapped.

    Question: Does the card create a perceived barrier of entry to the format?
    Answer: No. At an average of 4 dollars, the cost is relatively low. It is fully counterable and doesn't end a game without giving everyone multiple chances and methods of response.

    I realize there's potential for a very rare unintentional "oops, I win," but it's about as much as a problem as eternal witness + (mimic vat/crystal shard/capsize/deadeye navigator/equilibrium/erratic portal/sunken hope/vedalken mastermind/) and time magic.

    That is to say, no problem at all.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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