I'm really loving them. Much more efficient use of one's time, even if you have the time for dailies. The prize support is meh right now imo (not bad but not good either), but they're improving it soonish.
I was playing 8Rack for awhile but have since switched to Elves. I imagine I'll play 8Rack again at some point if only to switch it up. I believe I played it three times and went 4-1, 3-2, 4-1. It feels about as strong as ever to me. The first result is the primer list; I'll add them both to the tournament results section when I'm not lazy.
Some thoughts on my sideboard as of now, post-testing:
BFT - Maybe cut. We want it for decks Chord is bad against, and without Chord, she is bad. Tron is an exception but BFT/Chord is still useless vs a turn 2 Pyroclasm.
Kataki - Stupid good. Steals me games all the time against Affinity, and is now very relevant vs Lantern. Can be good vs fringe decks like Cheerios and Eggs, too.
Mindcensor - I feel like it's probably bad vs Scapeshift but worth it vs Tron and Amulet. Haven't gotten to test it much, but it's probably worth the slot.
Essence Warden - Very good against Burn. Sometimes I side it in vs other decks just to race faster.
Melira - Stupid good vs Infect but it has zero other applications so, questionable. Keeping it until I find something better.
Ooze - Very good, though situational. Not sure I need the extra one if I keep one main. Maybe Ooze main, Loaming Shaman side?
Choke - Steals games all the time. Might bump it to 2. I really like it vs Twin because it takes the pressure off like nothing else can (except maybe Skite). Great against any blue heavy deck though.
Sage - Good and always relevant. Nothing else to say really.
Colossus - Not enough testing yet but I love it vs Jund and Grixis in theory.
Revoker - Versatile but maybe not powerful enough to be worth the slot. More testing needed. Haven't gotten to try it vs Tron.
Spellskite - Strong but like Ooze, not sure I need an extra. Maybe if only for Twin, because it's such a tough match.
tl;dr: 100% sold on Kataki, Warden, Choke, Sage. The rest, and anything else not mentioned, I'm not sure.
Interested in others thoughts on this and on anything from your board that's been noticeably overperforming or underperforming for you.
Yes that was one reason I used to run 3 Cavern (and I might go back to that). Ooze is best in topdeck mode, when you have little or no board/hand and at least four mana (so you can play Ooze and get it out of Bolt range immediately). It's definitely situational but insanely good when it works, turning games around completely all on its own. No doubt in my mind we should play it, though I'm definitely interested in the idea of that being sb only.
Yes I've always planned to remove Skite and Ooze from the main once we got more elves. I'm not 100% on it but yeah. That said, we should always consider maindecking any of our silver bullets in relation to our personal meta.
I think I'd rather Loaming Shaman instead of RIP. Depending on the deck we're facing, at least.
Yes I've really been realizing how awful Chord is against a lot of decks. I'm favoring Colossus but Lead has its advantages, and I may well try it eventually. This all makes me think maybe we shouldn't be running Tender at all, especially because we can't Chord for it until at least turn 3, and Pyroclasm can be played turn 2. I don't think it's ever correct to side out Company. Company is great against sweepers.
I would happily take a four land seven with the right cards (Llanowar Elves, Archdruid, Company, for one example). I keep the one landers with Mystic/Llanowar but I'm never happy about it. It's a massive tempo loss if we don't draw the second land on turn 2.
It's hard to argue with math, I just know I've been frustrated with not hitting the second land far more often than I'm comfortable with. It's extremely important to do so, especially with so much removal in the format.
Nykthos I tested extensively at 1 and 2, and 2 screwed me far more often than I was comfortable with. You also have to consider how often you actually use its second ability (rarely), its legendary status, and it cheating us out of a creature on occasion. I haven't felt the need for a second since switching to 1, although it's possible I'm just not thinking about it in moments where it would be useful.
Can someone use hypergeometric distribution to determine how many lands we need to have two lands in the opener a high percentage of the time? I'm thinking 80-90%. I'm finding that 19 land is maybe not enough. Might cut the Ooze and Skite from the main and add a land and 4th Visionary.
It's a guess as to how many I need. I don't actually have Canopies yet because they're overpriced so I haven't tested them yet. How are you finding 3? How often do you have one out and find yourself unwilling to crack it?
I want to expand on my previous statement regarding Chameleon Colossus. My reservations about its CMC are no longer a factor, because I've realized Chord is quite poor vs Jund and Grixis (which is what we want Chameleon for). So, I'm now going to be swapping out Chords for Chameleons. This doesn't hurt Company, and improves these matchups greatly.
Below is my current list, which has been going 3-1 or 4-0 at FNM for awhile now (minus the Chameleons). Choke has stolen me several games, by the way (I mention this because I know it had some doubters not long ago).
Witness as a 1 or 2-of sideboard is reasonable. But lately I've been thinking about siding out Chords and siding in Chameleon Colossus for those grindy matches.
Some Elves coverage https://urzasradio.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/episode-7-elves-deck-tech/ Here's the dude's list:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Elvish Champion
1 Essense Warden
1 Spellskite
1 Dwynen’s Elite
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
5 Forest
2 Choke
1 Thragtusk
2 Burreton Forge Tender
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dismember
1 Spellskite
2 Beast Within
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Shaman of the Pack
BFT - Maybe cut. We want it for decks Chord is bad against, and without Chord, she is bad. Tron is an exception but BFT/Chord is still useless vs a turn 2 Pyroclasm.
Kataki - Stupid good. Steals me games all the time against Affinity, and is now very relevant vs Lantern. Can be good vs fringe decks like Cheerios and Eggs, too.
Mindcensor - I feel like it's probably bad vs Scapeshift but worth it vs Tron and Amulet. Haven't gotten to test it much, but it's probably worth the slot.
Essence Warden - Very good against Burn. Sometimes I side it in vs other decks just to race faster.
Melira - Stupid good vs Infect but it has zero other applications so, questionable. Keeping it until I find something better.
Ooze - Very good, though situational. Not sure I need the extra one if I keep one main. Maybe Ooze main, Loaming Shaman side?
Choke - Steals games all the time. Might bump it to 2. I really like it vs Twin because it takes the pressure off like nothing else can (except maybe Skite). Great against any blue heavy deck though.
Sage - Good and always relevant. Nothing else to say really.
Colossus - Not enough testing yet but I love it vs Jund and Grixis in theory.
Revoker - Versatile but maybe not powerful enough to be worth the slot. More testing needed. Haven't gotten to try it vs Tron.
Spellskite - Strong but like Ooze, not sure I need an extra. Maybe if only for Twin, because it's such a tough match.
tl;dr: 100% sold on Kataki, Warden, Choke, Sage. The rest, and anything else not mentioned, I'm not sure.
Interested in others thoughts on this and on anything from your board that's been noticeably overperforming or underperforming for you.
Edit: tentative new list below.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
3 Elvish Visionary
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Mirror Entity
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
Land
3 Cavern of Souls
6 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Pendelhaven
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Aven Mindcensor
3 Essence Warden
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Choke
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Chameleon Colossus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Yes I've always planned to remove Skite and Ooze from the main once we got more elves. I'm not 100% on it but yeah. That said, we should always consider maindecking any of our silver bullets in relation to our personal meta.
I think I'd rather Loaming Shaman instead of RIP. Depending on the deck we're facing, at least.
Yes I've really been realizing how awful Chord is against a lot of decks. I'm favoring Colossus but Lead has its advantages, and I may well try it eventually. This all makes me think maybe we shouldn't be running Tender at all, especially because we can't Chord for it until at least turn 3, and Pyroclasm can be played turn 2. I don't think it's ever correct to side out Company. Company is great against sweepers.
Why did you cut Ooze?
Good point about it being hard to interact with, and summoning sickness. I'll try 2 Nykthos again. Copperhorn I will never like. I tested it a lot.
I'll start testing with 3 Canopy then once I get it (eventually), since you and another guy run 3 and are happy with it.
I would happily take a four land seven with the right cards (Llanowar Elves, Archdruid, Company, for one example). I keep the one landers with Mystic/Llanowar but I'm never happy about it. It's a massive tempo loss if we don't draw the second land on turn 2.
It's hard to argue with math, I just know I've been frustrated with not hitting the second land far more often than I'm comfortable with. It's extremely important to do so, especially with so much removal in the format.
Nykthos I tested extensively at 1 and 2, and 2 screwed me far more often than I was comfortable with. You also have to consider how often you actually use its second ability (rarely), its legendary status, and it cheating us out of a creature on occasion. I haven't felt the need for a second since switching to 1, although it's possible I'm just not thinking about it in moments where it would be useful.
About flood, Canopy helps with that.
For now I'm sticking with 19 land and 1 Nykthos.
Below is my current list, which has been going 3-1 or 4-0 at FNM for awhile now (minus the Chameleons). Choke has stolen me several games, by the way (I mention this because I know it had some doubters not long ago).
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Mirror Entity
4x Nettle Sentinel
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
4x Cavern of Souls
6x Forest
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Pendelhaven
4x Razorverge Thicket
Instants
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
3x Chameleon Colossus
1x Choke
3x Essence Warden
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite