Wouldn't it just be alot easier if they finished the story of the plane before actual release. That way the story book in the fat pack doesn't spoil anything? I mean seriously the only two legendary creatures involved in the story we have cards for are Munda and Drana. So showing us the uncharted articles before release won't spoil any cards.
Well yes, several of us have discussed this several times.
@ hhooven4, I'm not seeing the comparison. We receive weekly articles; we just want the content to be different/more progressive. It's not difficult for them to appease us while still having the fat pack setup.
You've all pretty much summed up my opinion here. Ob Nixilis should be much help more powerful than Nissa, at least in terms of raw power and ability in combat. Since the energy is strong at the Khalni Heart, Ashaya will probably appear and save the day.
My advice is to read your post before sending it. Does it contribute to the thread? If not, either leave it unsaid or take it up via PM if you are concerned.
I do have high hopes for the upcoming UR, it should be actual meat on the story for once. Hopefully Ob Nixilis isn't just a pushover, but Ashaya is probably going to come back just in time to send him packing or something. I don't like the idea of Nissa beating Ob Nixilis in 1-to-1 combat unless there's a good explanation for how.
Nissa is a planeswalker and Ob is just a demon?
I don't think that's an excuse for post-mending planeswalkers. I wouldn't expect Jace to win either - at most distract him and fool him. I think Nissa shouldn't be able to win without her connection to Zendikar, personally.
My advice is to read your post before sending it. Does it contribute to the thread? If not, either leave it unsaid or take it up via PM if you are concerned.
I do have high hopes for the upcoming UR, it should be actual meat on the story for once. Hopefully Ob Nixilis isn't just a pushover, but Ashaya is probably going to come back just in time to send him packing or something. I don't like the idea of Nissa beating Ob Nixilis in 1-to-1 combat unless there's a good explanation for how.
I don't have a problem with them giving the details of the plot in the fat pack brochure, it reaches a much larger audience and is a good marketing tool.
What I have an issue with is how far away the URs are from that point. The story needs to be much further along by this point, or ideally concluded on release day. Instead we get a bunch of filler and buildup when we already know the ending, which removes a lot of my interest from the articles. Sure, I'll read them, but it's not something I'm looking forward to anymore.
They have shown they can pump out filler articles, so finish the story on release day or on the full spoiler release and then either start building up for the next set or take a break and tell some tales from around the multiverse. We don't get spoilers and receive the whole experience, most players see the general overview of what's happening in the fat pack, and if they're intrigued farther they can read up on the details through URs. Win-win.
The way the story was handled in this set feels like a slap in the face to me, and I think they can do a lot better to appease us while not sacrificing anything for the typical player.
I happily read the Fat Pack insert, and will gladly return Wednesday to read the next installment. If I only wanted plot, I could end after reading the Fat Pack. However, I want the full experience and storytelling, so I'll be back for more in Uncharted Realms.
I'll be interested in seeing Nissa and Ob interact.
Thank you, Zaz. Finally a mature opinion here.
The full experience seems to be Gideon whipping Eldrazi and Nissa whining.
"He has just regained his planeswalker spark by channeling energy from the hedron network that was supposed to trap the Eldrazi titans."
Not a surprise to anyone surely but I don't think it has been officially confirmed before this, apologies if I'm wrong. I believe this all but confirms the suspicions that Nissa's loss of Ashaya and the severing of the leylines is down to Ob Nixilis and hopefully he'll be meeting Nissa soon.
I'm more interested in the last phrase, where it says "the hedron network that was supposed to trap the Eldrazi titans." Is this referring to the old setup that trapped the titans initially? Or is it referring to the Aligned Hedron Network, indicating that maybe it fails due to lack of energy?
I hope it's the latter for intrigue's sake, but I'm not getting my hopes up due to the plurality of titans in the quote.
EDIT: As noted below, the art direction was removed from the linked album.
Phyrexiaterium stated that both worlds were different but neither was (objectively) better than the other. TerrorKingA argued that was not the case BECAUSE one was better for the majority of people. I don't think that the majority can be an objective measure in a situation like that.
Also, while MaRo said that Time Travel creating a worse world in Tarkir comes from the usual Time Travel trope (and that Sarkhan viewing it as a vast improvement because he is crazy is a cool twist to that), the tropes are usually pretty shortsighted about this as well. In the grand scheme of things, the Millionaire Biff world from Back to the Future was probably better for some people, other than Biff. They just remained off screen.
Admittedly it doesn't help that apparently all the characters we saw in the original timelines exist in the new one and have relatively worse lives. Or that the original Clans seemingly held moderating views that made them interesting, while the Broods are all boring. But we have to also assume there is a bunch of people in this timeline who wouldn't even exist in the original. While the Atarka seem to have hunted many large mammal species to near-extinction, the outcome of that would probably be a proliferation of small herbivores not tasty enough for them (birds, insects, small rodents), not global extinction (things would probably be much worse if Atarka were vegetarian, though).
Phyrexetherium's statement about neither being objectively better was in response to a discussion about which timeline was better for humanity, though, so I'm basing my argument on the assumption that we're concerned with which timeline is generally better for humanity, rather than overall objectivity, which is even more difficult to discern.
Yes, there will be people that now have better lives or didn't exist in the original timeline. But the statement concerned the majority, and through a) comparing the circumstances of the same characters in both world and b) extrapolating how life for the general population would be in each world, I'm fairly sure that the original timeline is just superior for most humans. We can assume that the number of people that don't exist in the new timeline cancels out the number of people that didn't exist in the old timeline.
Defining the majority definitely raises issues with objectivity, I agree, but logically as humans I think we can assume that most people would rather not be subservient to a race of ruthless dragon overlords.
No, one is clearly better for the majority of people than the other.
Let's say we have two timelines:
World A is inhabited by 10 million goblins. They take considerably less resources than humans to grow to adulthood (say a tenth), have bronze age-era technology and live in areas where there wasn't much life to begin with anyway, so nature is more intact as well. They also die doing stupid things all the time, and generally have a smaller lifespan than humans anyway, but they are happy that way.
World B is inhabited by 2 million humans. They take considerably more resources to sustain themselves and live five times longer than Goblins, so nature is overall worse as well. Humans also are never really content with their own living standards, so they are continuously striving to live more and better, at the cost of everything else in the world.
Would you argue that World A is clearly better than World B?
The statement was that one world was better for the majority of people, not clearly better as a world overall.
This is like comparing a World A of dragons and a World B of humans, which is silly. The argument is that a World A of solely humans is clearly better for the majority of humans than a World B of dragons and humans.
Which world is overall better in the abstract is irrelevant.
At GP Montreal I passed my turn with no cards in hand, and at 5 or less life. I had a morph in play and nothing else. My opponent shows me Sarkhan's Rage on my end step (he's tapped out so he's just insinuating that he's killing me next turn), but my morph was Stratus Dancer.
It was an awkward spot because I can't just counter it as he hasnt/can't actually cast it, but if I tell him that it's not actually game over then he can deduce that he should do something other than casting the Rage.
I don't think it's necessarily poor etiquette, but I think it's poor practice in general. Just have a little patience.
I haven't read the whole thread and I do agree with your general message, but can we please not use this argument? It is incredibly defensive and really isn't relevant at all.
I don't mind filler articles if they are a) well-written and b) develop the world or characters well. I felt like Drana's story was great for this reason - it was filler that wasn't essential to the story, but it was intriguing and covered a unique character and her species on Zendikar.
But when I see these Gideon and Nissa filler, that's when I'm frustrated. We've had six or seven articles about the core planeswalkers but the story has barely progressed. These characters aren't interesting, especially Nissa, so we neither get sufficient plot advancement nor an interesting development of characters or the culture of the plane.
Ok non-dragons are second class citizens at best and pets or food at worst.
So what?
I don't get why everyone freaks out about it. What did everyone thought would happen? That humanoids would be buddies with the dragons and ride on their backs? Or that it would go back the way it was in Fate Reforged?
The dragons are the strongest things on Tarkir. They make the rules, much like we do here. And really there's only one rule and Surrak summarized it perfectly. Bring the meat or become the meal.
Uh, this discussion started from somebody mentioning characteristics of green planeswalkers (Sarkhan and his flawed plan to restore Tarkir), and somebody disputing that Tarkir is now worse off.
Nobody is freaking out about anything. It's just a discussion of Khans vs Dragons timelines on Tarkir.
Well yes, several of us have discussed this several times.
@ hhooven4, I'm not seeing the comparison. We receive weekly articles; we just want the content to be different/more progressive. It's not difficult for them to appease us while still having the fat pack setup.
I don't think that's an excuse for post-mending planeswalkers. I wouldn't expect Jace to win either - at most distract him and fool him. I think Nissa shouldn't be able to win without her connection to Zendikar, personally.
I do have high hopes for the upcoming UR, it should be actual meat on the story for once. Hopefully Ob Nixilis isn't just a pushover, but Ashaya is probably going to come back just in time to send him packing or something. I don't like the idea of Nissa beating Ob Nixilis in 1-to-1 combat unless there's a good explanation for how.
What I have an issue with is how far away the URs are from that point. The story needs to be much further along by this point, or ideally concluded on release day. Instead we get a bunch of filler and buildup when we already know the ending, which removes a lot of my interest from the articles. Sure, I'll read them, but it's not something I'm looking forward to anymore.
They have shown they can pump out filler articles, so finish the story on release day or on the full spoiler release and then either start building up for the next set or take a break and tell some tales from around the multiverse. We don't get spoilers and receive the whole experience, most players see the general overview of what's happening in the fat pack, and if they're intrigued farther they can read up on the details through URs. Win-win.
The way the story was handled in this set feels like a slap in the face to me, and I think they can do a lot better to appease us while not sacrificing anything for the typical player.
The full experience seems to be Gideon whipping Eldrazi and Nissa whining.
Well, there was Treasure Cruise.
"He has just regained his planeswalker spark by channeling energy from the hedron network that was supposed to trap the Eldrazi titans."
Not a surprise to anyone surely but I don't think it has been officially confirmed before this, apologies if I'm wrong. I believe this all but confirms the suspicions that Nissa's loss of Ashaya and the severing of the leylines is down to Ob Nixilis and hopefully he'll be meeting Nissa soon.
I'm more interested in the last phrase, where it says "the hedron network that was supposed to trap the Eldrazi titans." Is this referring to the old setup that trapped the titans initially? Or is it referring to the Aligned Hedron Network, indicating that maybe it fails due to lack of energy?
I hope it's the latter for intrigue's sake, but I'm not getting my hopes up due to the plurality of titans in the quote.
EDIT: As noted below, the art direction was removed from the linked album.
Phyrexetherium's statement about neither being objectively better was in response to a discussion about which timeline was better for humanity, though, so I'm basing my argument on the assumption that we're concerned with which timeline is generally better for humanity, rather than overall objectivity, which is even more difficult to discern.
Yes, there will be people that now have better lives or didn't exist in the original timeline. But the statement concerned the majority, and through a) comparing the circumstances of the same characters in both world and b) extrapolating how life for the general population would be in each world, I'm fairly sure that the original timeline is just superior for most humans. We can assume that the number of people that don't exist in the new timeline cancels out the number of people that didn't exist in the old timeline.
Defining the majority definitely raises issues with objectivity, I agree, but logically as humans I think we can assume that most people would rather not be subservient to a race of ruthless dragon overlords.
The statement was that one world was better for the majority of people, not clearly better as a world overall.
This is like comparing a World A of dragons and a World B of humans, which is silly. The argument is that a World A of solely humans is clearly better for the majority of humans than a World B of dragons and humans.
Which world is overall better in the abstract is irrelevant.
It was an awkward spot because I can't just counter it as he hasnt/can't actually cast it, but if I tell him that it's not actually game over then he can deduce that he should do something other than casting the Rage.
I don't think it's necessarily poor etiquette, but I think it's poor practice in general. Just have a little patience.
I haven't read the whole thread and I do agree with your general message, but can we please not use this argument? It is incredibly defensive and really isn't relevant at all.
But when I see these Gideon and Nissa filler, that's when I'm frustrated. We've had six or seven articles about the core planeswalkers but the story has barely progressed. These characters aren't interesting, especially Nissa, so we neither get sufficient plot advancement nor an interesting development of characters or the culture of the plane.
Uh, this discussion started from somebody mentioning characteristics of green planeswalkers (Sarkhan and his flawed plan to restore Tarkir), and somebody disputing that Tarkir is now worse off.
Nobody is freaking out about anything. It's just a discussion of Khans vs Dragons timelines on Tarkir.