It's time for the Ravnica Allegiance review! Unfortunately, save for one card, this set didn't really provide us with a lot of fun tools. Nevertheless, I'll try to cover every card that could go in the deck (good or bad)
Black Cards
Orzhov Racketeers - If you're wanting to throw afterlife in the deck, then this card could be included as almost a delayed Siege-Gang Commander. But ultimately, our deck wants immediate payouts or extreme benefit from delayed actions. This card provides neither.
Priest of Forgotten Gods - I was excited as I read the card, and then let-down by the time I finished it. If this card added mana for each opponent affected by the sacrifice trigger, it would be an immediate include. However, saccing two of our creatures for a Fleshbag Maraudertrigger, one Ashnod's Altar activation and a card is not worth our time. Mana's the most important aspect for our deck, and if you want a one-to-one ratio for mana, just run Phyrexian Altar instead.
Undercity Scavenger - The extra +1/+1 counters don't matter in our deck, and the scry trigger has the ability to whiff thus wasting what could have been an impactful ETB.
Red Cards
Amplifire - As others have stated, this card is bad for the deck. It puts all revealed cards on the bottom of your deck in a random order. It CAN be good if you hit a creature immediately off the top; but once you start hitting noncreature cards looking for that trigger, you're just setting yourself up for a bunch of dead flips.
Dagger Caster - Too small of an effect to be worth running, and there are a lot of better creatures we can abuse with a Digger Loop.
Immolation Shaman - Also pretty uninteresting. If you want a punish effect in the deck, use Harsh Mentor; but neither fulfill the goals of Grenzo.
Mirror March - I LOVE this card. Unfortunately, I won't include it in my list since it's a dead, nonrecurrable flip and it's an immensely heavy mana cost to cast from hand. However, if you're running a more noncreature focused build and don't mind the extra dead flip chance, then go for it. Here's to hoping we get a Phyrexian Delver type ability for enchantments in the future. Return to Theros maybe?...once can dream.
Rix Maadi Reveler - Grenzo's all the "draw" we need. Looting is unhelpful; and while the spectacle could be useful at times to dump a hand filled with creatures into our graveyard, it's not worth running the low-impact creature for that hypothetical situation.
Smelt-Ward Ignus - As an ETB, it could probably find a slot. As an activated ability with the sac cost, I'll skip. Zealous Conscripts is just better in every way.
Black & Red Cards
Judith, the Scourge Diva - The one saving grace of the set for our list. She buffs Grenzo to 3 (making him more reliable if we ever need a Tel-Jilad Stylus protection activation) and she provides another ping source for all of the saccing we do. My only regret is the "nontoken" clause, but I definitely think she's still worth testing.
That's my review of Ravnica Allegiance. A new update to the list will be coming out shortly, so stay tuned for that. See you later, Dungeon-Dwellers!
It''s tough, I can see strong arguments for both. Personally, I'm going to try Ministrant of Obligation as it costs less, provides more targets for Teysa's sac ability, and has the synergy you mentioned.
Oh you're right, I totally overread this part. Thank you for clarification. My bad.
Yep, unfortunately the "random order" kills it
I experienced the same level of devastation when I saw that Reality Scramble also had that clause...both of these cards would've been a lot of fun otherwise.
Judith is a great addition to the deck because it increases the chances of enabling Grenzo to consistently hit.
Chiming in to express appreciation for this. It seems like a ton of fun with a pretty solid card advantage engine. I'm honestly surprised with it. Who knew Rakdos could generate card advantage?
Agreed, Judith seems better the more I think about her. Even with the nontoken stipulation, I think she'll be a powerful addition to the list.
And thank you! It's part of the reason why I love Grenzo so much; he's a Rakdos commander that "draws" a lot of cards and plays at instant speed. It's like playing a blue commander with no blue!
Edit: i think OG teysa. The new one needs to spin too many plates
You definitely want to keep OG Teysa as most of the deck runs off of her black-creatures-dying trigger. This Teysa just makes the OG one go extra bonkers when they're both out.
I've been thinking about building this list, though I'm thinking of replacing the old Rakdos with the new Rakdos as commander. Seems appropriate and slightly more reliable to get us a lot of value.
This is very nice! Another goblin sharpshooter/Thoctar like effect is very welcome!
Yes sir! I will definitely be testing her out. She has the added benefit of buffing Grenzo when he's at 2, so that's great as well. Her major flaw is that she only gets to ping off of nontoken creatures
Would have been an instant include if we could trigger all our eldrazi and goblin tokens.
Good evening everyone!!! I just wanted to make a mention here that the new Ravnica set may potentially be a HUGE boost to this deck. The new mechanic “Afterlife X” creates a White AND “Black” spirit token. At worst, without our commander, we get another spirit out of killing our guys. At best, with our commander, we get 2 spirits if the Afterlife creature is Black and another 2 from the token dying. The amount of value from that alone is insane!!!
Hoping that we’ll be seeing some decent low cmc Afterlife creatures if for nothing else get more value out of Teysa’s already insane ability. HYYYYYPE!!!
Yeah, I saw the afterlife mechanic and immediately knew I had to rebuild this deck again. I'm excited to see what cards they create with the mechanic. Hopefully we get some extremely busted interactions (like our exploitative Teysa usually does)
Just realized Kuldotha Forgemaster isn't on the list. Being able to tutor and cheat out an Altar or Heartstone is usually worth it. I do run more artifact creatures, I think (including Precursor Golem), but you should be able to get at least one goodie to the board.
Liliana, Heretical Healer also seems like a good call. You will almost always be able to flip her, and then you have both discard and recursion on hand.
I really like the Kuldotha Forgemaster and will have to test that out. You're right in that getting one activation could potentially end the game. Thanks for the recommendation.
As for Liliana, Heretical Healer, I ran her before and wasn't too impressed personally. But I'll admit I may have to give her another go and see if my view has changed with this newest iteration of the list.
I'm also holding out on the next update until Ravnica Allegiances comes out. Here's to hoping there's some sweet Grenzo toys in the Rakdos-infused set!
Hi, I'm running a very similar list. Just a random question, why are you not running Blood Crypt, Sulfurous Springs and Tainted Peak? They're basically stricly better than mountains.
Hey Duramboros,
Here are the reasons they haven't been added to my list yet:
Blood Crypt - Definitely needs to be in. I've just been waiting for the next Ravnica set so I can pick it up foil.
Sulfurous Springs - Our life can actually be precious, especially when Treasonous Ogre is involved, so I'd rather not ping myself for the luxury of having another dual land. Obviously, Ancient Tomb and Blood Crypt will ping us, but their damage is different as Blood Crypt's a one time cost and Ancient Tomb is actively getting us extra mana.
Tainted Peak - Our mana base has been stretched thin with already with all of the colorless lands we already run. Our list effectively only has 11 swamps (including Urborg), so without one of those, this is just a colorless land. It might be my paranoia, but I don't particularly like this card.
I agree! I do. Teysa was one of my first "all out" decks abouuuuttt 6 years ago when I first started playing. 1st ever - Kresh, then Exava, Lyzolda, Glissa, then Teysa. But Teysa got alll the good cards haha. The other decks kinda sucked. My Teysa was the "typical" super heavy combo deck because I just jammed every combo in there, excluding Sanguine + exquisite, cuz I don't really like that one personally. When I took her apart because every game felt the same, it hurt so much, but since then, whenever I've thought of building a new deck she always comes to mind. She can be so versatile. And you can build her any way you want. After I saw Anointed Procession the lights went off and I pulled the trigger to rebuild her. Now I've got about 65% of the deck built again, but with a different approach and it feels great, and the deck's not even done lol....So after a long paragraph, ya, I agree lol
Sun Titan - I ALSO agree. I wouldn't! And I'm not. It's already in my deck. But many of the lists I see here while looking back DON'T have Sun Titan and it baffles me. Exactly! I mean, if your curve is super low, it reads "pay 6 mana - recur any permanent from your grave", and when you attack do it again. If your curve is low it's basically a repeatable Obzedat's aid....That's why I'm so confused from not seeing it.
If you didn't wanna run the combos like Animate Dead, dance of the dead, necromancy, angelic renewal, gift of immortality, etc, which are pretty good on their own with Teysa, then I can see how it's not AS powerful, but imo that doesn't mean Sun Titan should get cut.
But what makes Sun Titan better is that he can even recur your key artifacts (Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar). The enchantments you included are only creatures, but I think they should be ran WITH Sun Titan since they can create an infinite loop with him, one of the enchantments and one of the Altars used as a sac outlet.
Ok, I am very new to this forum. I just created an account lol. But I've been using it as a resource for years. I mainly use Tappedout for my decklists so you can just find them there.
I've read the initial primer on the first page, but decided to go backwards in reading all of these 33 pages to get the consensus on the newer cards for Teysa.
SO, I'm not sure who's playing what type of build i.e stax, combo, tokens, value, etc, but I see a lot of the same and it's very confusing.
I understand why Grave titan might not be useful in many Teysa decks, but why do I keep seeing Sun titan excluded from many lists?
P.S. If anyone can help me figure out how to tag cards that would be appreciated.
I think that's the beautiful thing about Teysa; she can be all of those things in one. It's part of the reason why I love her so much and why she was my go to deck for approximately 6 years.
As for the exclusion of Sun Titan, I'm not sure why you would exclude it. It's super powerful recursion that can grab an Ashnod's Altar in a pinch and is also a piece of several infinite combos. I'd highly recommend running one if you have it.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this card, but Reality Scramble has been an absolute powerhouse in my own list. Turning your Rhystic Study into an Omniscience or your Snapcaster Mage into a Consecrated Sphinx feels super good and happens very often. And even if you get a bad flip, you can still retrace Reality Scramble from your graveyard (which also makes wheeling it a moot point).
It may require slight adjustments in a list to ensure maximum efficiency from the card, but I couldn't imagine playing my Niv-Mizzet deck without it.
Yeah I was planning on playing Price as well, when I was looking to take this deck and add my own pet cards/meta calls the lack of removal really jumped out to me. My more casual build would probably run that + Sinister Sabotage over Force of Will as a budget+thematic alternative. The other clunky cards I mentioned probably aren't worth it though, but I'm gonna try Enhanced Surveillance to see if supercharging Lasav is enough to make it worth it.
I feel like Enhanced Surveillance has a lot of potential if you're running Surveil already. But my real draw to it is a protection card against Bojuka Bogs and the like.
Hey, I just wanted to extend my thanks to both snowfox54119 and Zervintz for your contributions to this topic and actively pursuing upgrades and enhancements to this incredibly fun and dynamic commander.
I got into EDH about 2 years ago with some precons, but the first standalone commander I started brewing was Grenzo, Dungeon Warden off of a super budget EDH deck list that I ordered for $31.51 USD.
Contributors and guides like yourselves are an incredible resource to the mtg community and you should know that it has been highly appreciated.
Thank you so much for the kind words; I'm extremely honored. And I couldn't have done any of this if it wasn't for this awesome community. Contributors and commentors on this topic have influenced a lot of upgrades/changes to the list. So I appreciate all of your help in making this list the best it can be.
@snowfox54119 I wonder if you have tried or thought about Phyrexian tower. I have one and I think it could be good for occasionoal sac and flip.
And how about Mana crypt?. I know you want to minimize the number of non-creature spells, but crypt is soooo good.
Thank in advance and sorry for my english.
Your grammar is great, no need to apologize! I may have to look into Phyrexian Tower, because I do admit having an extra mana available could make a big difference since it's an additional flip when we're stuck at odd mana.
As for Mana Crypt, I have a couple of reasons for why I personally don't run it in the list:
Cost - A big part of why I love this list is its affordability that allows lots of players to jump in on the idea at a low investment level. This might be paranoid of me as it can easily be switched out, but I wouldn't want new players to jump on a list, see an $80+ card, and immediately assume the list is out of their price range. I know that's how I felt when I first started and saw lists with Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox, Grim Monolith, etc.
Threat - Getting a turn 1 Mana Crypt is going to draw even more ire than a turn 1 Sol Ring. So you better believe people now have their removal primed and ready for Grenzo. This issue is mitigated when drawn in the late game, and it's still a powerful draw in the late game since it equates to an additional free flip every turn.
Speed - The deck can already be lightning fast at times, and I really try to maintain my current speed to avoid complete oppressiveness in a more casual meta. This is definitely the weakest and most subjective point, but I feel the current speed is pretty great and I want to be cautious about making it faster.
Either way, I'll add them in the "Alternate Meta Picks List", because they're ultimately worth running if you have them.
I checked your Whisper combo and I don't think it works, you'd need at least another creature. Unless I'm wrong, you can't reanimate one of the two creatures you sac as part of the cost of Whisper's ability because you have to choose a target that's in your graveyard before you actually pay the ability's cost, which means the two creatures you sacrifice are on the battlefield when you activate the ability and you can't return one of them.
Ah, you're right. I misread the colon as an additional cost. That is definitely a mistake on my part and I will update the primer to reflect that.
Black Cards
- Orzhov Racketeers - If you're wanting to throw afterlife in the deck, then this card could be included as almost a delayed Siege-Gang Commander. But ultimately, our deck wants immediate payouts or extreme benefit from delayed actions. This card provides neither.
- Priest of Forgotten Gods - I was excited as I read the card, and then let-down by the time I finished it. If this card added mana for each opponent affected by the sacrifice trigger, it would be an immediate include. However, saccing two of our creatures for a Fleshbag Maraudertrigger, one Ashnod's Altar activation and a card is not worth our time. Mana's the most important aspect for our deck, and if you want a one-to-one ratio for mana, just run Phyrexian Altar instead.
- Undercity Scavenger - The extra +1/+1 counters don't matter in our deck, and the scry trigger has the ability to whiff thus wasting what could have been an impactful ETB.
- Amplifire - As others have stated, this card is bad for the deck. It puts all revealed cards on the bottom of your deck in a random order. It CAN be good if you hit a creature immediately off the top; but once you start hitting noncreature cards looking for that trigger, you're just setting yourself up for a bunch of dead flips.
- Dagger Caster - Too small of an effect to be worth running, and there are a lot of better creatures we can abuse with a Digger Loop.
- Immolation Shaman - Also pretty uninteresting. If you want a punish effect in the deck, use Harsh Mentor; but neither fulfill the goals of Grenzo.
- Mirror March - I LOVE this card. Unfortunately, I won't include it in my list since it's a dead, nonrecurrable flip and it's an immensely heavy mana cost to cast from hand. However, if you're running a more noncreature focused build and don't mind the extra dead flip chance, then go for it. Here's to hoping we get a Phyrexian Delver type ability for enchantments in the future. Return to Theros maybe?...once can dream.
- Rix Maadi Reveler - Grenzo's all the "draw" we need. Looting is unhelpful; and while the spectacle could be useful at times to dump a hand filled with creatures into our graveyard, it's not worth running the low-impact creature for that hypothetical situation.
- Smelt-Ward Ignus - As an ETB, it could probably find a slot. As an activated ability with the sac cost, I'll skip. Zealous Conscripts is just better in every way.
- Judith, the Scourge Diva - The one saving grace of the set for our list. She buffs Grenzo to 3 (making him more reliable if we ever need a Tel-Jilad Stylus protection activation) and she provides another ping source for all of the saccing we do. My only regret is the "nontoken" clause, but I definitely think she's still worth testing.
Red Cards
Black & Red Cards
That's my review of Ravnica Allegiance. A new update to the list will be coming out shortly, so stay tuned for that. See you later, Dungeon-Dwellers!
It''s tough, I can see strong arguments for both. Personally, I'm going to try Ministrant of Obligation as it costs less, provides more targets for Teysa's sac ability, and has the synergy you mentioned.
Also, it's thematically cooler with Teysa
Yep, unfortunately the "random order" kills it
I experienced the same level of devastation when I saw that Reality Scramble also had that clause...both of these cards would've been a lot of fun otherwise.
Agreed, Judith seems better the more I think about her. Even with the nontoken stipulation, I think she'll be a powerful addition to the list.
And thank you! It's part of the reason why I love Grenzo so much; he's a Rakdos commander that "draws" a lot of cards and plays at instant speed. It's like playing a blue commander with no blue!
You definitely want to keep OG Teysa as most of the deck runs off of her black-creatures-dying trigger. This Teysa just makes the OG one go extra bonkers when they're both out.
Yes sir! I will definitely be testing her out. She has the added benefit of buffing Grenzo when he's at 2, so that's great as well. Her major flaw is that she only gets to ping off of nontoken creatures
Would have been an instant include if we could trigger all our eldrazi and goblin tokens.
Yeah, I saw the afterlife mechanic and immediately knew I had to rebuild this deck again. I'm excited to see what cards they create with the mechanic. Hopefully we get some extremely busted interactions (like our exploitative Teysa usually does)
I really like the Kuldotha Forgemaster and will have to test that out. You're right in that getting one activation could potentially end the game. Thanks for the recommendation.
As for Liliana, Heretical Healer, I ran her before and wasn't too impressed personally. But I'll admit I may have to give her another go and see if my view has changed with this newest iteration of the list.
I'm also holding out on the next update until Ravnica Allegiances comes out. Here's to hoping there's some sweet Grenzo toys in the Rakdos-infused set!
Hey Duramboros,
Here are the reasons they haven't been added to my list yet:
But what makes Sun Titan better is that he can even recur your key artifacts (Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar). The enchantments you included are only creatures, but I think they should be ran WITH Sun Titan since they can create an infinite loop with him, one of the enchantments and one of the Altars used as a sac outlet.
I think that's the beautiful thing about Teysa; she can be all of those things in one. It's part of the reason why I love her so much and why she was my go to deck for approximately 6 years.
As for the exclusion of Sun Titan, I'm not sure why you would exclude it. It's super powerful recursion that can grab an Ashnod's Altar in a pinch and is also a piece of several infinite combos. I'd highly recommend running one if you have it.
It may require slight adjustments in a list to ensure maximum efficiency from the card, but I couldn't imagine playing my Niv-Mizzet deck without it.
I feel like Enhanced Surveillance has a lot of potential if you're running Surveil already. But my real draw to it is a protection card against Bojuka Bogs and the like.
Thank you so much for the kind words; I'm extremely honored. And I couldn't have done any of this if it wasn't for this awesome community. Contributors and commentors on this topic have influenced a lot of upgrades/changes to the list. So I appreciate all of your help in making this list the best it can be.
Your grammar is great, no need to apologize! I may have to look into Phyrexian Tower, because I do admit having an extra mana available could make a big difference since it's an additional flip when we're stuck at odd mana.
As for Mana Crypt, I have a couple of reasons for why I personally don't run it in the list:
Cost - A big part of why I love this list is its affordability that allows lots of players to jump in on the idea at a low investment level. This might be paranoid of me as it can easily be switched out, but I wouldn't want new players to jump on a list, see an $80+ card, and immediately assume the list is out of their price range. I know that's how I felt when I first started and saw lists with Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox, Grim Monolith, etc.
Threat - Getting a turn 1 Mana Crypt is going to draw even more ire than a turn 1 Sol Ring. So you better believe people now have their removal primed and ready for Grenzo. This issue is mitigated when drawn in the late game, and it's still a powerful draw in the late game since it equates to an additional free flip every turn.
Speed - The deck can already be lightning fast at times, and I really try to maintain my current speed to avoid complete oppressiveness in a more casual meta. This is definitely the weakest and most subjective point, but I feel the current speed is pretty great and I want to be cautious about making it faster.
Either way, I'll add them in the "Alternate Meta Picks List", because they're ultimately worth running if you have them.
Ah, you're right. I misread the colon as an additional cost. That is definitely a mistake on my part and I will update the primer to reflect that.
However, despite my overestimation, I do still think Whisper, Blood Liturgist is a more fun and interesting choice than Junktroller.