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  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Thanks for the thoughts, Hoboz! I think you're right in that Judith, the Scourge Diva is a subtle but powerful mini-engine. So I'll keep her in for now.

    As for the other cards being discussed, I agree with the sentiments on Agent of Erebos and Vampire Hexmage. I think both are very solid inclusions if your meta dictates it, and both deserve to be on the Alternate Picks list.

    Vampire Hexmage is much easier to cast than Thief of Blood and as others have pointed out, doesn't remove Grenzo's counters which can really mess up your groove.

    Agent of Erebos is an effective mass nuke for other GY shenanigan decks, and can easily be found through several of our tutors (Imperial Recruiter and Fleshwrither).
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from manugl84 »
    @snowfox54119

    First of all, congrats for your work on this deck. Insanely fun!
    Second, I have a couple of questions:
    1. No love for balthor the defiled? I see you got inspiration from Zervintz list, who plays it. I think it´s great for this deck (it won me a couple of matches last week).
    2. How about your latest changes? (judith, the scourge diva, kuldotha forgemaster and emrakul's hatcher).


    Thanks @manugl84! Here are my thoughts:

    1. I love Balthor the Defiled. He was in my original list and has been in my alternative picks list since his removal. I just didn't have any luck with him for the first several games I had played with the deck, but I actually am considering putting him back in to give him another go.
    2. Here are my thoughts on the recent changes:
    • Kuldotha Forgemaster - Love it. I just won with it in my most recent game by tutoring an Ashnod's Altar, then generating enough mana to recur the Forgemaster and re-activate it for a Heartstone; the game was super over at that point. It's terrifyingly fast, and if it can get off one activation, the game is typically over.
    • Emrakul's Hatcher - Much more effective than Priest of Gix. He allows me to store up the mana for later or provide additional creatures to our numerous death effects.
    • Judith, the Scourge Diva - Honestly haven't had the chance to test her out much. I still have yet to flip her, so she requires more testing. But if she doesn't perform up to par, I might put Balthor back in her place.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from kraus911 »
    Got the deck put together, ready to play. Subbed in Hell's Caretaker as I love that card. Am also curious about Millikin... do you find it useful to get the random dump into the graveyard? Was thinking of swapping out Plague Myr for it.


    I personally have found it pretty useful since our expensive creatures are much more accessible from the graveyard; but I don't think Plague Myr is a bad substitute. I just recently removed Plague Myr from my own list to test another card out, so up until recently I ran both.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    From my experience, since we're curving into Grenzo on turn three it is nice to have some two-drops to add value to the board. This sets us up for the mid-game as each creature already present on the board adds to the strength of each flip.

    It depends how hard you want to prioritize the drain life effects. I wouldn't see anything wrong with playing all three (though Zulaport Cutthroat is the essential one).


    I agree with your assessment. It really depends on how important these effects are to you. The list is very flexible and can easily switch in different creatures for different needs. But I would place the following priority in including these creatures in a list: Zulaport Cutthroat > Blood Artist > Vindictive Vampire.

    I typically prioritize life loss over damage as it goes through a lot more things, and Blood Artist is nice in that he sees all creature deaths. So you pinging down 20 tokens with Deathbringer Thoctar just netted you 20 damage to your opponent as well.


    Quote from PenThief »
    I am wondering if you have suggestions on how to tune this deck to play in no particular meta. I dont have a playgroup but go to a couple large stores in my area for FNM commander pods and some casual games. There are so many different people I end up playing with, its hard to pin down which cards should be a standard if I never know what im up against. Some people play really competitive, but others maybe 50%. I've flip-flopped on cards likeSilent Arbiter, Balthor the Defiled and Mindclaw Shaman though the deck always preforms really well. Its just tough when you know you dont happen to have a good answer for a specific problem when it comes up.


    That's difficult and I understand that dilemma. I also have two groups I play with that hold differing philosophies (high-power tuned vs casual), and I've found my current list to meet both demands pretty well. I may occasionally place an additional restriction on myself in the casual group (like no infinite combos, delaying flips until turn 6-8), but I've found that in both metas it can do extremely well and not be oppressive.

    Really it depends on what you run up against most often; if you see a lot of token decks, throw in Silent Arbiter. If you play against a Vial Smasher the Fierce, include Mindclaw Shaman. As stated above, the list is flexible to meet your needs, you just have to determine what is lacking from the list and what you feel is currently under-performing.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Teysa Karlov, Grand Envoy of Orzhov
    Quote from Darkaxel1990 »
    I'm back from the dead (the EU account deletion). Snowfox, I follow your primer of Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, and I'm very curious to see your decklist for Teysa, too. Can I ask you the list? Thank you!


    Of course! I'll have to find some time later to share my own list since I'm swamped with work and school, but know that my list is very heavily based on Schondetta's. He's done an amazing job with this primer, so you'll probably see only a few differences between mine and his Smile
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from kraus911 »
    This is the first deck I've seen in a long time that I flat out want to build and play as is. Awesome crafting and evolution!


    Happy to hear it! Let me know how your games go when you get to test it out! Smile
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    My next iteration of the list has been updated! Check out all 6 changes I made on the initial post. Soon I will also be adding a budget list that someone can use to build the deck for less than $100, so that's exciting!



    And one last point; with every iteration, the deck becomes a stronger and stronger force in my playgroup. My playgroup doesn't mind the deck, but they do know how lightning fast it can be. And through some brainstorming, I've come up with a theme-appropriate way to slow myself down; roll the dice and see what happens! I've selected an 8-sided die and plan to roll the dice prior to each game and place a corresponding restriction on myself in that game. Here's what I have so far:


    1. 1st negative triggered ETB targets a permanent I control
    2. Grenzo X must = 2 all game
    3. Only 3 activated abilities per turn
    4. No casting until turn 4
    5. Maximum of 5 creatures on the battlefield at all times
    6. No flips until turn 6
    7. After 7 lands, no more natural land plays
    8. Play as normal

    These "emblems" are all in an effort to slow my deck down a bit so it doesn't start steamrolling quite as fast. What are your guys' thoughts on this type of additional effect on myself? Is there a way I could do this better? Let me know your thoughts; and as always, happy dungeon-delving, friends!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    It's time for the Ravnica Allegiance review! Unfortunately, save for one card, this set didn't really provide us with a lot of fun tools. Nevertheless, I'll try to cover every card that could go in the deck (good or bad)


      Black Cards

    • Orzhov Racketeers - If you're wanting to throw afterlife in the deck, then this card could be included as almost a delayed Siege-Gang Commander. But ultimately, our deck wants immediate payouts or extreme benefit from delayed actions. This card provides neither.

    • Priest of Forgotten Gods - I was excited as I read the card, and then let-down by the time I finished it. If this card added mana for each opponent affected by the sacrifice trigger, it would be an immediate include. However, saccing two of our creatures for a Fleshbag Maraudertrigger, one Ashnod's Altar activation and a card is not worth our time. Mana's the most important aspect for our deck, and if you want a one-to-one ratio for mana, just run Phyrexian Altar instead.

    • Undercity Scavenger - The extra +1/+1 counters don't matter in our deck, and the scry trigger has the ability to whiff thus wasting what could have been an impactful ETB.


    • Red Cards

    • Amplifire - As others have stated, this card is bad for the deck. It puts all revealed cards on the bottom of your deck in a random order. It CAN be good if you hit a creature immediately off the top; but once you start hitting noncreature cards looking for that trigger, you're just setting yourself up for a bunch of dead flips.

    • Dagger Caster - Too small of an effect to be worth running, and there are a lot of better creatures we can abuse with a Digger Loop.

    • Immolation Shaman - Also pretty uninteresting. If you want a punish effect in the deck, use Harsh Mentor; but neither fulfill the goals of Grenzo.

    • Mirror March - I LOVE this card. Unfortunately, I won't include it in my list since it's a dead, nonrecurrable flip and it's an immensely heavy mana cost to cast from hand. However, if you're running a more noncreature focused build and don't mind the extra dead flip chance, then go for it. Here's to hoping we get a Phyrexian Delver type ability for enchantments in the future. Return to Theros maybe?...once can dream.

    • Rix Maadi Reveler - Grenzo's all the "draw" we need. Looting is unhelpful; and while the spectacle could be useful at times to dump a hand filled with creatures into our graveyard, it's not worth running the low-impact creature for that hypothetical situation.

    • Smelt-Ward Ignus - As an ETB, it could probably find a slot. As an activated ability with the sac cost, I'll skip. Zealous Conscripts is just better in every way.


    • Black & Red Cards

    • Judith, the Scourge Diva - The one saving grace of the set for our list. She buffs Grenzo to 3 (making him more reliable if we ever need a Tel-Jilad Stylus protection activation) and she provides another ping source for all of the saccing we do. My only regret is the "nontoken" clause, but I definitely think she's still worth testing.


    That's my review of Ravnica Allegiance. A new update to the list will be coming out shortly, so stay tuned for that. See you later, Dungeon-Dwellers!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Teysa Karlov, Grand Envoy of Orzhov


    It''s tough, I can see strong arguments for both. Personally, I'm going to try Ministrant of Obligation as it costs less, provides more targets for Teysa's sac ability, and has the synergy you mentioned.

    Also, it's thematically cooler with Teysa :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from Grageon »
    Quote from Darkaxel1990 »
    Only two words: "random order".

    Oh you're right, I totally overread this part. Thank you for clarification. My bad.


    Yep, unfortunately the "random order" kills it Frown

    I experienced the same level of devastation when I saw that Reality Scramble also had that clause...both of these cards would've been a lot of fun otherwise.


    Quote from benjameenbear »
    Judith is a great addition to the deck because it increases the chances of enabling Grenzo to consistently hit.

    Chiming in to express appreciation for this. It seems like a ton of fun with a pretty solid card advantage engine. I'm honestly surprised with it. Who knew Rakdos could generate card advantage?


    Agreed, Judith seems better the more I think about her. Even with the nontoken stipulation, I think she'll be a powerful addition to the list.

    And thank you! It's part of the reason why I love Grenzo so much; he's a Rakdos commander that "draws" a lot of cards and plays at instant speed. It's like playing a blue commander with no blue!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Teysa Karlov, Grand Envoy of Orzhov
    Quote from FearDReaper »
    My question is, which do I prefer in the zone?

    Edit: i think OG teysa. The new one needs to spin too many plates


    You definitely want to keep OG Teysa as most of the deck runs off of her black-creatures-dying trigger. This Teysa just makes the OG one go extra bonkers when they're both out.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Rakdos the Defiler - Death at any Cost
    I've been thinking about building this list, though I'm thinking of replacing the old Rakdos with the new Rakdos as commander. Seems appropriate and slightly more reliable to get us a lot of value.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from Duramboros »

    This is very nice! Another goblin sharpshooter/Thoctar like effect is very welcome!


    Yes sir! I will definitely be testing her out. She has the added benefit of buffing Grenzo when he's at 2, so that's great as well. Her major flaw is that she only gets to ping off of nontoken creatures Frown

    Would have been an instant include if we could trigger all our eldrazi and goblin tokens.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Teysa Karlov, Grand Envoy of Orzhov
    Quote from GrimoireDark »
    Good evening everyone!!! I just wanted to make a mention here that the new Ravnica set may potentially be a HUGE boost to this deck. The new mechanic “Afterlife X” creates a White AND “Black” spirit token. At worst, without our commander, we get another spirit out of killing our guys. At best, with our commander, we get 2 spirits if the Afterlife creature is Black and another 2 from the token dying. The amount of value from that alone is insane!!!

    Hoping that we’ll be seeing some decent low cmc Afterlife creatures if for nothing else get more value out of Teysa’s already insane ability. HYYYYYPE!!!


    Yeah, I saw the afterlife mechanic and immediately knew I had to rebuild this deck again. I'm excited to see what cards they create with the mechanic. Hopefully we get some extremely busted interactions (like our exploitative Teysa usually does)
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - The Slot Machine of Value
    Quote from Fajen Thygia »
    Just realized Kuldotha Forgemaster isn't on the list. Being able to tutor and cheat out an Altar or Heartstone is usually worth it. I do run more artifact creatures, I think (including Precursor Golem), but you should be able to get at least one goodie to the board.

    Liliana, Heretical Healer also seems like a good call. You will almost always be able to flip her, and then you have both discard and recursion on hand.


    I really like the Kuldotha Forgemaster and will have to test that out. You're right in that getting one activation could potentially end the game. Thanks for the recommendation.

    As for Liliana, Heretical Healer, I ran her before and wasn't too impressed personally. But I'll admit I may have to give her another go and see if my view has changed with this newest iteration of the list.

    I'm also holding out on the next update until Ravnica Allegiances comes out. Here's to hoping there's some sweet Grenzo toys in the Rakdos-infused set!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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