I actually want to run Thief of Blood in my deck. I don't see it as something I'd go to on the regular, but rather a toolbox option. Perhaps I'm facing down a large +1/+1 counter deck, or Planeswalker deck. He snatches away everything my opponents have worked for. This little guy may snatch all my own counters, but if I sac him to one of our many outlets prior to swinging then I'd get all my counters back when I swing at the throne. Also, Unspeakable Symbol gives us back our counters, as does some of our other creature sac outlets. Thief of Blood Isn't a card I would look to play every game, just like Aura Thief and Feldon of the Third Path.
I'm not really feeling the other cards. They are cheaper and faster yes, but they require targeting themselves and tapping. Hell's Caretaker is not only tutorable, but it also lets it sacrifice anything else or itself. Sure this is balanced by being slower, but it allows me to sac creatures with +1/+1 counters and not only get them back at the end of turn, but get them back and have a friend with them. I wouldn't use Necromancy due to it still giving things summoning sickness and possibly killing them at the end of turn without counters.
Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
So I just got back from my weekly Commander night, and boy was it fun! Only got to play 2 games, one with my Mishra and one with Marchesa, and boy did Marchesa put in work!
I ended up fighting a Riku of Two Reflections, Thassa, God of the sea, and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. The game started out slow and everyone's commanders came out. The Riku and Deveri made the mistakes of playing cards to let me draw more and play up to 2 extra lands a turn. Needless to say I got some serious ramp. Within no time I had Marchesa and Solemn on the field sacking with Dimir House Guard adding more to the ramp and draw until I began to abuse Rune Scarred Demon. By turn 6 I had Dragonlord Silumgar taking control of Riku, Scourge of the Throne and a copy of it, and I had Silumgar, the Drifting Death. I ended up killing the Riku and Thassa player with the multiple combats (only swing one Scourge at a time) and the multiple dragons giving their creatures tons of -1/-1.
I was finally killed off when my field was hit with Cyclonic Rift and I just couldn't recover from the bounce cards Derevi began to play. It was a pretty fun game. The Riku player complained I kept his commander for a good portion of the game, but he also didn't grasp the concept that he needed to stop gaining life so he wouldn't be on the throne. Overall, the two Silumgar definitely put in work in my deck!
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like Dragonlord Silumgar in the demon's spot. It's one more expensive but its not any more or less tutorable and I almost always prefer stealing over destroying, and with no upkeep cost. Plus it can also hit walkers which as others have pointed out is definitely a solid plus. I always find walkers really annoying since I can't get a dethrone trigger by attacking them so I'd appreciate another way of getting rid of them.
I have been running Dragonlord Silumgar and as much as I love him, he doesn't pull as much weight as when I first put him in. I'm tempted to try out his original form, Silumgar, the Drifting Death, because of the flying, hex proof, and the -1/-1 he gives the defending players. Pairing the original Silumgar and Scourge of the Throne while attacking two players also sounds like a fun thing to do. Either way, because of my play groups, I'll probably keep one of them in there. I'm trying to get a Drifting Death to test play.
Meant to reply to CentralCommand...I derped so it's edited to show the right quote.
Don't forget as well, if you get Mikaeus and Marchesa out, you have an immortal Fleshwrither. I am able to do it constantly, which lets me tutor for days.
Cavern of Souls can be a powerful card if you do plan to use a lot of wizards. It's also searchable with Tolaria West. In my build, I wouldn't see much use of it due to my subpar use of wizards, but each build is different.
The cards that pull their weight will vary between everyone due to different gaming groups, but I would definitely vouch for these cards pulling all of their weight:
Fleshwrither - if you can cast him and then transfigure him in the same turn, he is a wonderful toolbox for anything you might need in your deck (assuming you run a good amount of CMC 4) Unspeakable Symbol - Great synergy with Marchesa, and lets us not only get away from the throne, but also add counters for Marchesa's recursion. Clever Impersonator - Being able to get a copy of just about anything is fairly awesome. Disciple of Bolas - One of the better cards in my opinion, and one of the most searched cards by me with Fleshwrither. He helps to get our hand up in a pinch and gives us some life incase we've lost just a bit too much. Spellskite - Great for not only saving things on our board while losing life (if you choose to do it that way), but also lets us steal other people's possibly buffs and even politic saving someone for a later favor. Tolaria West - Easy way to find Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, and Bojuka Bog. Aura Thief - Do you like that pillow fort they have, or maybe that Rhystic Study? Great, sac this guy and TAKE ALL THE ENCHANTMENTS! Necropotence - Works wonders mid-game when you either need new cards or need to get off the throne. Sage of Fables - If she is on the board before Marchesa is on the field, she's pretty neat and sets up for an immortal Marchesa. Profaner of the Dead - It's a pseudo board wipe and if timed correctly can be down right nasty!
These next ones are helpful for my play groups, and may not be great in other builds: Dragonlord Silumgar - I thought I would just try him for kicks, but in my group he really shines. He steals, flies, and murders. Flying is a bit of an issue in the groups I play with, so flying defense is a must. Desecration Demon - Speaking of flying defense, this guy is also a nice flight deterrent. If Marchesa is out and they tap him, I can simply sac him and have him return later. Grave Betrayal - Good in my build, but, also makes me an instant target. Probably going to take this out for the new Sidisi once I get her. Rakdos Charm - Just like flying is a problem in my groups, so is reanimation, and for 2 mana I can get a quick fix. It also allows me to kills a token deck for 2 mana if they decide to spam their tokens. Soul Manipulation - Small counter and allows for me to fetch something I might need from the grave. Usually both. Perplex - Only running this other counter because it will force them to make a decision, or I can transmute it for something else I might need. Lim-Dul's Vault - Helps me to scry 5, and if I don't like them, then I can take 1 and move farther from the throne and scry some more. Plus it's an instant so I can do it at my opponents end step. Dimir Doppelganger - Did I mention that reanimation was a thing in my groups? This also lets me hit my own grave. I've had to do this a few times after my Living Death has been countered. It's an all around versatile mid to late game card. Tauren Mauler - This...This guy is fun. Either everyone buffs him and he becomes threatening, or someone kills him with Marchesa present and he gets to come back and be threatening again. Mauler is all around a win in my deck.
I honestly built mine with a base of Solrune's, and aside from cards I'll not be able to afford for a long time, I've modified it to my personal play style and group setting. For example, I've never found uses for Puppeteer Clique or Gray merchant of Asphodel, so I swapped them out for something I could find more useful. When I get more free time later, I'll have to post a current version of my deck.
I would continue to run the Praetor's grasp and Brainstorm. The grasp allows you not only to grab an artifact, but it allows you to see your opponents entire deck. In some matches, that could be a big turn around. Brainstorm also allows you to slightly modify your hand, and is a cheaper one time use of Sensei's Top.
As for your lands, for the life gain have you considered Miren, the moaning well? I'm using it for my Marchesa deck and it is great, especially if you intend to sac things like you mentioned with High Market.
@ Kealsera and LordRewind
The group I play with has done a few instant win games, and infinite loops. Some times we end up with 3+ hour games where we just want it to end, and in those instances, Hellkite Tyrant would be awesome to have. I am considering using Charger if I can get a few more attackers. Definitely saving up for the Eldrazi Titans. Given the amount of mana I can produce, getting them out by turn 6-7 is a breeze.
I haven't gotten my hands on the new Sidisi, but the profaner has indeed pulled his weight. I'm hoping to get a Sidisi this Thursday at our shop's EDH night and try her out. not sure exactly what to cut yet, but I'll find something.
Also, it may just be my meta, but the new Silumgar has proven his worth too. A big ole flyer who when played right has stolen some very important cards. One of the best was stealing someone's Jace the Mind Sculptor. I can say I owned a Mind Sculptor by proxy now...and for that I'm happy. But, Silumgar may just be decent in my meta, just like how Desecration Demon is good in my meta for a tutor-able flying blocker (or a sac-able critter if they have me tap it.)
If it helps for an added idea, I'm adding Hellkite Tyrant to my deck and thinking of adding a way to flash him in, Such as Vedalkin Ornery. Let's be honest, if someone see I have that and close to the number of artifacts, I become an instant target before it gets back to my turn.
Right now, in my tuned down version (I am still getting beat sticks) I rely on Soul of New Phyrexia and Steel Hellkite to bring the power. Otherwise, I have mana for days and not much to spend it on. Playing Mishra a few times with my build and seeing the others, I think Blightsteel, Ulamog, and Kozilek are prime choices for the deck in terms of offensive cards. The way my groups play, combos are a rare and special occurrence, so beating in faces or locking people down is the most common route.
so I got the All is Dust, Minamo, Torpor Orb, Oblivion Stone, and Necropotence tonight, and had several play tests in 4-5 player groups.
Necropotence was removed, it's always dead to me, and I don't feel like finding another Urborg (I also play Marchesa and Rafiq). I did however do something fun today with the Karoo lands. I found a fun way to play Bojuka Bog, bounce it for a Karoo, then rinse and repeat.
My build also severely lacks offense. I have 9-12 mana by turn 5, but nothing to do with it. For the future of my own build, I think some Tutors and beatsticks are needed. All that mana, and also no real way to draw. Once I ran out of a hand, I was basically done and unable to recover. I also needed some counters, rarely, but sometimes really needed them.
I hadn't considered running those lands! I'll have to save up for Dark Depths. I may take out the Karoo lands and replace them with those. Or I could shuffle things around and take advantage of the Amulet and have it help the Karoo lands and Geth.
The obelisk is in there as a mana rock for now. It's one of the cards I intend to take out in the future. I'm not fond of the Coalition Relic, and am trying to get my hands on a Thran Dynamo.
As for the board wiping disk of hate...Well I am picking up that and an Oblivion Stone today during EDH night at my shop
So, since the parts for my Mishra build came in, I figured I'd post the trial version of my Mishra EDH. Keep in mind that I designed the deck as a fun deck, and to be able to operate separate of Mishra is needed. Some cards I added for personal flavor as well...
The deck like I said is meant to work with or without the mad genius that is Mishra. There are a lot of flavor cards, as well as cards that are used to offset the kinds of Commanders I am used to facing. The two places I play at usually have a lot of red, blue, and/or black decks. White and blue do crop up, but not as frequently as others. I often fight another Grixis deck, a Thassa deck, a GrimGrin deck, a Brago deck, and a Narset deck.
Feel free to ask or comment on anything. I'll explain why I run the card or be inspired possibly to run something better. I should also point out that I do intend on getting Blightsteel for this deck, as well as Kozilek and Ulamog. Why the Titans? WHY NOT THE TITANS?! Just something out of left field to abuse the colorless mana. Chances are I won't use the Titans, but I am trying to find bigger/better beatsticks besides Soul, Hellkite, and Blightsteel.
I absolutely love this deck style! Any advice for someone thinking of setting off and building this thing? (:
One of the cheapest, but amazingly (for me) hard to find cards for this deck is Fleshwrither! Using him and a few other original Ravnica Transmute cards for CMC 3 and 4 make the deck very versatile. I run my deck almost exclusively on CMC 3 and 4 so as to make everything available in a pinch.
So I have been looking at making a new commander for a long time, and you've inspired me to finally use my Mishra. My eyes have been opened to his potential and I want to see what I can do with him. Would you mind, if once I have it built, if I post my deck list here and get your opinion on it?
Also, Kudos on getting that Nether Void! I know I'll not be able to afford one for ages and it is definitely a game changer!
Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
I ended up fighting a Riku of Two Reflections, Thassa, God of the sea, and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. The game started out slow and everyone's commanders came out. The Riku and Deveri made the mistakes of playing cards to let me draw more and play up to 2 extra lands a turn. Needless to say I got some serious ramp. Within no time I had Marchesa and Solemn on the field sacking with Dimir House Guard adding more to the ramp and draw until I began to abuse Rune Scarred Demon. By turn 6 I had Dragonlord Silumgar taking control of Riku, Scourge of the Throne and a copy of it, and I had Silumgar, the Drifting Death. I ended up killing the Riku and Thassa player with the multiple combats (only swing one Scourge at a time) and the multiple dragons giving their creatures tons of -1/-1.
I was finally killed off when my field was hit with Cyclonic Rift and I just couldn't recover from the bounce cards Derevi began to play. It was a pretty fun game. The Riku player complained I kept his commander for a good portion of the game, but he also didn't grasp the concept that he needed to stop gaining life so he wouldn't be on the throne. Overall, the two Silumgar definitely put in work in my deck!
I have been running Dragonlord Silumgar and as much as I love him, he doesn't pull as much weight as when I first put him in. I'm tempted to try out his original form, Silumgar, the Drifting Death, because of the flying, hex proof, and the -1/-1 he gives the defending players. Pairing the original Silumgar and Scourge of the Throne while attacking two players also sounds like a fun thing to do. Either way, because of my play groups, I'll probably keep one of them in there. I'm trying to get a Drifting Death to test play.
Meant to reply to CentralCommand...I derped so it's edited to show the right quote.
The cards that pull their weight will vary between everyone due to different gaming groups, but I would definitely vouch for these cards pulling all of their weight:
Fleshwrither - if you can cast him and then transfigure him in the same turn, he is a wonderful toolbox for anything you might need in your deck (assuming you run a good amount of CMC 4)
Unspeakable Symbol - Great synergy with Marchesa, and lets us not only get away from the throne, but also add counters for Marchesa's recursion.
Clever Impersonator - Being able to get a copy of just about anything is fairly awesome.
Disciple of Bolas - One of the better cards in my opinion, and one of the most searched cards by me with Fleshwrither. He helps to get our hand up in a pinch and gives us some life incase we've lost just a bit too much.
Spellskite - Great for not only saving things on our board while losing life (if you choose to do it that way), but also lets us steal other people's possibly buffs and even politic saving someone for a later favor.
Tolaria West - Easy way to find Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, and Bojuka Bog.
Aura Thief - Do you like that pillow fort they have, or maybe that Rhystic Study? Great, sac this guy and TAKE ALL THE ENCHANTMENTS!
Necropotence - Works wonders mid-game when you either need new cards or need to get off the throne.
Sage of Fables - If she is on the board before Marchesa is on the field, she's pretty neat and sets up for an immortal Marchesa.
Profaner of the Dead - It's a pseudo board wipe and if timed correctly can be down right nasty!
These next ones are helpful for my play groups, and may not be great in other builds:
Dragonlord Silumgar - I thought I would just try him for kicks, but in my group he really shines. He steals, flies, and murders. Flying is a bit of an issue in the groups I play with, so flying defense is a must.
Desecration Demon - Speaking of flying defense, this guy is also a nice flight deterrent. If Marchesa is out and they tap him, I can simply sac him and have him return later.
Grave Betrayal - Good in my build, but, also makes me an instant target. Probably going to take this out for the new Sidisi once I get her.
Rakdos Charm - Just like flying is a problem in my groups, so is reanimation, and for 2 mana I can get a quick fix. It also allows me to kills a token deck for 2 mana if they decide to spam their tokens.
Soul Manipulation - Small counter and allows for me to fetch something I might need from the grave. Usually both.
Perplex - Only running this other counter because it will force them to make a decision, or I can transmute it for something else I might need.
Lim-Dul's Vault - Helps me to scry 5, and if I don't like them, then I can take 1 and move farther from the throne and scry some more. Plus it's an instant so I can do it at my opponents end step.
Dimir Doppelganger - Did I mention that reanimation was a thing in my groups? This also lets me hit my own grave. I've had to do this a few times after my Living Death has been countered. It's an all around versatile mid to late game card.
Tauren Mauler - This...This guy is fun. Either everyone buffs him and he becomes threatening, or someone kills him with Marchesa present and he gets to come back and be threatening again. Mauler is all around a win in my deck.
I honestly built mine with a base of Solrune's, and aside from cards I'll not be able to afford for a long time, I've modified it to my personal play style and group setting. For example, I've never found uses for Puppeteer Clique or Gray merchant of Asphodel, so I swapped them out for something I could find more useful. When I get more free time later, I'll have to post a current version of my deck.
I would continue to run the Praetor's grasp and Brainstorm. The grasp allows you not only to grab an artifact, but it allows you to see your opponents entire deck. In some matches, that could be a big turn around. Brainstorm also allows you to slightly modify your hand, and is a cheaper one time use of Sensei's Top.
As for your lands, for the life gain have you considered Miren, the moaning well? I'm using it for my Marchesa deck and it is great, especially if you intend to sac things like you mentioned with High Market.
@ Kealsera and LordRewind
The group I play with has done a few instant win games, and infinite loops. Some times we end up with 3+ hour games where we just want it to end, and in those instances, Hellkite Tyrant would be awesome to have. I am considering using Charger if I can get a few more attackers. Definitely saving up for the Eldrazi Titans. Given the amount of mana I can produce, getting them out by turn 6-7 is a breeze.
Also, it may just be my meta, but the new Silumgar has proven his worth too. A big ole flyer who when played right has stolen some very important cards. One of the best was stealing someone's Jace the Mind Sculptor. I can say I owned a Mind Sculptor by proxy now...and for that I'm happy. But, Silumgar may just be decent in my meta, just like how Desecration Demon is good in my meta for a tutor-able flying blocker (or a sac-able critter if they have me tap it.)
If it helps for an added idea, I'm adding Hellkite Tyrant to my deck and thinking of adding a way to flash him in, Such as Vedalkin Ornery. Let's be honest, if someone see I have that and close to the number of artifacts, I become an instant target before it gets back to my turn.
Right now, in my tuned down version (I am still getting beat sticks) I rely on Soul of New Phyrexia and Steel Hellkite to bring the power. Otherwise, I have mana for days and not much to spend it on. Playing Mishra a few times with my build and seeing the others, I think Blightsteel, Ulamog, and Kozilek are prime choices for the deck in terms of offensive cards. The way my groups play, combos are a rare and special occurrence, so beating in faces or locking people down is the most common route.
Necropotence was removed, it's always dead to me, and I don't feel like finding another Urborg (I also play Marchesa and Rafiq). I did however do something fun today with the Karoo lands. I found a fun way to play Bojuka Bog, bounce it for a Karoo, then rinse and repeat.
My build also severely lacks offense. I have 9-12 mana by turn 5, but nothing to do with it. For the future of my own build, I think some Tutors and beatsticks are needed. All that mana, and also no real way to draw. Once I ran out of a hand, I was basically done and unable to recover. I also needed some counters, rarely, but sometimes really needed them.
How did you solve some of these issues?
I hadn't considered running those lands! I'll have to save up for Dark Depths. I may take out the Karoo lands and replace them with those. Or I could shuffle things around and take advantage of the Amulet and have it help the Karoo lands and Geth.
The obelisk is in there as a mana rock for now. It's one of the cards I intend to take out in the future. I'm not fond of the Coalition Relic, and am trying to get my hands on a Thran Dynamo.
As for the board wiping disk of hate...Well I am picking up that and an Oblivion Stone today during EDH night at my shop
I'm waiting on my next paycheck to get All is Dust, Minamo, School at water's edge, Torpor Orb, Transmute Artifact, Wurmcoil Engine, Blightsteel Colossus, Necropotence, and the usable Fetch lands.
1 Chief Engineer
1 Duplicant
1 Etched Champion
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Goblin Welder
1 Hex Parasite
1 Junk Diver
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Master of Etherium
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Myr Retriever
1 Nullstone Gargoyle
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Plague Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Spellskite
1 Sphinx Summoner
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Arcane Denial
1 Chaos Warp
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Perplex
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Acquire
1 Fabricate
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Vandalblast
1 Cloud Key
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Crystal Ball
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mind Stone
1 Mirrorworks
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Obelisk of Grixis
1 Prototype Portal
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Semblance Anvil
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skeleton Shard
1 Sol Ring
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Blood Funnel
1 Copy Artifact
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Planar Chaos
1 Possibility Storm
1 Rhystic Study
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Halimar Depths
1 Steam Vents
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Dimir Aquaduct
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Tolaria West
1 Watery Grave
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Seat of Synod
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Great Furnace
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Command Tower
1 Temple of the False God
1 Blood Crypt
1 Academy Ruins
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Mountain
The deck like I said is meant to work with or without the mad genius that is Mishra. There are a lot of flavor cards, as well as cards that are used to offset the kinds of Commanders I am used to facing. The two places I play at usually have a lot of red, blue, and/or black decks. White and blue do crop up, but not as frequently as others. I often fight another Grixis deck, a Thassa deck, a GrimGrin deck, a Brago deck, and a Narset deck.
Feel free to ask or comment on anything. I'll explain why I run the card or be inspired possibly to run something better. I should also point out that I do intend on getting Blightsteel for this deck, as well as Kozilek and Ulamog. Why the Titans? WHY NOT THE TITANS?! Just something out of left field to abuse the colorless mana. Chances are I won't use the Titans, but I am trying to find bigger/better beatsticks besides Soul, Hellkite, and Blightsteel.
One of the cheapest, but amazingly (for me) hard to find cards for this deck is Fleshwrither! Using him and a few other original Ravnica Transmute cards for CMC 3 and 4 make the deck very versatile. I run my deck almost exclusively on CMC 3 and 4 so as to make everything available in a pinch.
Also, Kudos on getting that Nether Void! I know I'll not be able to afford one for ages and it is definitely a game changer!