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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Aethelianmage »
    Heyo everyone. I went 3-4 in an MCQ. 57th of 124 is not the most exciting finish, but it was still fun and I learned some things.

    Wins vs Bogles (2-0), Grixis Control(2-0), and Izzet Phoenix(2-0).
    Losses vs Kiln Fiend(0-2), Bant Stoneforge Eldrazi(0-2), Titanshift(1-2), and Burn(1-2).




    I made play mistakes at least twice. Vs. Eldrazi I had the chance to kill Eldrazi Displacer vs play Prime Time. I played primetime, and the Displacer stopped him from doing much of anything. Vs. Titanshift in game 3 I knew he was going to play Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, so I held up mana to call instead of playing overgrowth. What I should have done is called and played an arbor elf, so I had more mana to rebuild with later. That game was long, and came down to my opponent topdecking better than me, so that misplay definitely cost me the match. Oh well. Only way to get better is to play.

    Changes to Deck:
    - Move the mainboard Scooze to the side. I like having two of them, but graveyard decks are not so fast nor so prevalent anymore to warrant its inclusion in the main. I won't auto-lose game 1 without it.
    - Replace Thragtusk and Champion with Kitchen Finks. Two of my losses (and both where bad play on my part was not involved) were to aggressive red decks. I was not stoked about either of those cards. Thragtusk sometimes isn't fast enough when opponents are bolting arbor elf, and these decks do not play enough creatures for Champion to shine. Sure, it's hard to get rid of, but so is finks, while being more immediately impactful.
    - I wouldn't mind finding room for another Voracious Hydra or Knight of Autumn in the 75.
    - There was a game I lost due to being gated on green b/c of blast zone, but there was another where I knocked off Slippery Bogle, Gladecover Scout, Ethereal Armor, and Rancor the same turn I dropped the zone, thanks to Garruk. I think the card is still worth the include, though it is not without risk. This has, however, convinced me not to up my non-forest count. Four is plenty.
    - I still don't now if Shifting Ceratops is good or not. Didn't run into the matchups it's there for.

    However, with Throne about to drop, I will try to modify the deck further with Once Upon a Time and Questing Beast. I think Once is a 3- or 4- of, and will be a huge consistency boost to a deck that needs to run a large number of mana dorks but hates seeing them late game. Questing Beast will be added to the tutor package, probably in the main. It is possible, if that card is good enough at hating out stupid planeswalkers, that I could drop Fiery Justice in favor of it and more Voracious Hydra. I'd rather have more creatures, but Justice gets the nod for now becuase it can answer both swarm creatures and T3feri. Post-ELD, I may be able to accomplish that via the toolbox alone, which makes Call that much better.

    Or I could drop tooth and nail entirely and play 3 titans, 2-3 hydra, and 1-2 big eldrazi as the top end of a dedicated toolbox deck. Maybe throw in a few chords or pacts. If I build this version, I'd consider The Great Henge as a late game value engine.

    ~

    One of the other two guys from my shop who came down here made top 8. He's a great player, lots of respect for him. We don't get tournaments of this size around here very often, So I'm glad he did well.

    This might be a lot of post for a decidedly middle-of-the-pack result, but I had fun and won't get to play another event like this for some time, so I thought I'd make the most of it.


    That’s awesome! Every tourney is a great way to get a true feel for competitive play. Thanks for the great write up!
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I am the best devotion player.


    Haha! You got the receipts:)
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Does anyone have any other ideas for Cholenburg?

    If you already have access to Young Pyromancer, Delver, and Geist you have a solid base for your creatures. I think you list looks extremely solid you have listed it. I know FON is very expensive, but does help a lot in a delver build and is even more important in Young Pyromancer and Geist builds. However, Spell Pierce can often be used in a very similar fashion in the early game. You have to have one mana up, but for a budget deck you could use a couple spell pierce for the time being.

    Other than that the deck looks solid. I would just slowly try to build up the mana base a bit as you can. Try to get 4-6 blue fetches or 4 blue and 2 arid mesa. You could even start with 4 arid mesa because they are typically less expensive and just have more blue sources that are not fetachable like fast lands.

    I think Archmage's Charm is a great "budget" option to replace cryptic command and/or planeswalkers. I know it's not really a pure budget card, but its less than cryptic command.

    Another card that you could save for in the future is Snapcaster Mage. Really you don't need 4 copies. Even just two copies would be extremely helpful in the grindy matchups. But that is just a future idea. They definitely aren't necessary and a great deck can be built around young pyro and delver.

    Another way you can play a budget build is to go a bit more aggro.Mantis Rider, Swiftspear, Remand, etc are a bit less expensive than the more midrange counter parts like the planeswalkers, cryptic, etc. Typically more aggro decks are easier to build on a budget in jeskai.

    Just some ideas, but I think if you can make the build you have listed that you will be in great shape and will win plenty of the time.


    Stevomat- You can never put too many videos up. I think everyone likes watching them.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Great 5-0 from TheLiability:

    https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/the-liability-5-0-decklist-by-the-liability-819794

    I love all the card draw creatures!

    End-Raze Forerunners is interesting. It is better than Hoof if cast alone...does give vigilance...so it comes down to how many games the +2/+2 isn’t enough.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Kenrith’s Transformation is a cool card for us those who play mono green. Turns off problem creatures, infect creatures, flyers, combo creatures, etc. The cantrip changes everything (as it replaces itself which is important in Devotion). I’ve played Lignify in past meta’s (when playing mono green) and this is just better. Also being able to turn a token into a 3/3 to overrun while drawing a card isn’t awful for 2-mana if they don’t have a creature.

    I like this card. Not a staple for all decks, but really cool option to have available when playing mono-green. I call cards like this “Devotion Box” cards. I have a box that has all the cards I think can work in Devotion depending on the meta, which cards I’m trying to maximize, etc.). Some I play very rarely; but they are there for me to see so I don’t forget about them when I’m looking for cards.
    ____

    Deathless Knoght seems strong too. Haste is always great, recursion is easy with incidental life gain. It’s going in my “Devotion Box” too Smile

    ______


    I would say all in all; we didn’t get any major “Staples” from Throne if Eldraine (unless you play stompy). I do think:

    1. Castle Garenbrig will see play and is a reason for us to play powerful 6-drops (Primeval Titan, Woodland Bellower, any X-creature, etc.). This may end up being the most impactful card in the set.

    2. The Great Henge could make a deck of its own. It’s a powerful “build around me” card that does some crazy stuff.

    3. The new Garruk Huntsman is a very strong 6-drop. Given its synergy with other Garruk’s and its ultimate at only one additional loyalty...there is a deck there.

    4. Stompy got lots of toys Smile

    5. Once Upon a Time is likely the card that will see the most play in Devotion decks from Throne. Any creature-heavy deck is going to play it.

    6. There are a few other cards that have interesting synergies and power that could see play in certain decks/meta’s; but they are somewhat specific rather than overtly powerful.

    Throne is a cool set. The few Devotion plants have me wondering how they are going to handle Green Devotion...but for me there is nothing more exciting than knowing we’ll be back in Theros at the beginning of the year.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rendroc »
    Ok, so I decided to see if Once Upon a Time could work in Devotion, because I think the card has a lot of potential, I just haven’t found the deck for it yet (haven’t put much thought into it). This deck is untested, I don’t get to play much magic these days.

    I just added OUaT to the the Green Devotion combo-focused deck that prioritizes winning fast over consistency and value. This decklist is almost the same as Anthony Skrzypczak‘s decklist. For those that don’t know, he is one of the most successful Green Devotion pilots, I think the most successful, with a bunch of top 8’s and 16’s at big tournaments, SCG Classics and Opens. Unfortunately, I never went to many tournaments, and the few that I did go to I didn’t play Green Devotion.

    His list has varied slightly, but he always plays Prime Time, which I cut because I am not a fan of it in Green Devotion, I think there are better options. I replaced it with Wolfbriar Elemental, a card that has been a staple of my Devotion decks for a while now.

    I thought OUaT could fit nicely in this deck, since it can help to find the perfect cards to combo off with. It will usually be used to find a turn 1 mana dork, a BTE, or a Nykthos.




    EDIT:
    Perhaps 4 of OUaT is too many. Two to three might be better. I think making room for Dragonlord Atarka is wise, since now there are more Walkers in the format, and more traditional aggro based decks as well.

    -1 OUaT +1 Atarka

    I like this list a lot. I’m a very big fan of Wolfbriar Elemental (as most times you cast it you will win the next turn of the opponent doesn’t). OUaT adds smoothness that Pact also already added. Looks great to me.

    And yes...Anthony S is the most successful Green Devotion player to date. He’s done a lot for Devotion by getting top-8’s; getting on camera, etc.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from StevomatUWR »

    This looks like a tempo player's wet dream come true Smile
    I wonder if it will be as good as Clique.

    Btw, there was another vid of the Saheeli Cat deck today and even though I don't want to flood this thread with the combo deck I do want to post
    Corey Baumeister's video here because he's having sooo much fun with the deck!
    Just look at him. So much joy Smile


    I will definitely be adding this as a one of. It's a great versatile card that has a "catch all" attached to it. I won't dropping echoing truth because it's so good, but may have to part with my Vapor Snag. I love this card.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Sam Black put out an article today discussing Castle Garenbrig..

    http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/39096_Meet-Castle-Garenbrig-Primeval-Titans-Best-Friend.html

    He said essentially the same thing I did. It is great for getting Primeval Titan out a turn earlier than you may have otherwise (and great in a creature heavy deck also playing Once Upon a Time).

    He did make mention of Summoner's Pact as well @Semoreh Smile

    Below are some quotes from the article for those that don't read StarCity articles...he makes some of the points I made above...but is WAY better at it Smile :

    This land has very little downside and the advantage of casting Primeval Titan a turn early. If you've ever played a game with Primeval Titan, you know that casting it a turn early matters, a lot. As in, in Primeval Titan decks, most of the other cards in the deck are just there to shave a turn off when you get to cast your first Primeval Titan.

    ...If you imagine that for whatever reason, your ramp spells all cost two mana, and your plan is to play one on Turn 2 and one on Turn 3, then hit your fourth land drop and cast Primeval Titan, you might look at this and think, "I was already casting Primeval Titan on Turn 4, and this doesn't let me cast it on Turn 3, so this doesn't do anything." That's not how Magic works. Sometimes you only draw one ramp spell or only draw three lands, sometimes your opponent counters a ramp spell. Things don't always go according to plan. This land always gets you from four mana to six mana. It's always a ramp spell to cast Primeval Titan. Yes, there will occasionally be draws where that doesn't let you cast it a turn early, but most of the time, it will.

    ...If your deck plays Primeval Titan, it should be playing Castle Garenbrig. I don't care that it's not a Mountain and it doesn't give green mana on Turn 1, and I don't care that space for lands in Amulet Titan is tight. This will win you a lot of games by letting you cast Primeval Titan a turn earlier than you would otherwise be able to.

    ...When you have access to Castle Garenbrig, the target turn for casting Primeval Titan shifts from Turn 4 to Turn 3, and you don't have to jump through all the hoops of Amulet Titan. This is a strong case for using creatures to cast Primeval Titan. All you need is something as simple as two mana creatures living and drawing Castle Garenbrig, and you can cast Primeval Titan on Turn 3.

    _______

    We may finally have enough tools to become a Primeval Titan deck again. One of my pet peeves in the past was Devotion being a "Worse X" deck. We were a worse Karn deck than Tron...a worse Primeval Titan Deck than Amulet, etc.

    Between Castle Garenbrig, Nykthos, and Garruk...we may now compete for the best Primeval Titan deck in Modern. At minimum we won't just be a "worse" Amulet Titan anymore.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    The Great Henge is a lot of card Smile It likely will end up being “win-more” but I do like that it pays the 2-green for itself and gains life (I learned with Hydroid Krasis how life gain could be very potent). Fun card nonetheless.


    This far it looks like we won’t get much from Eldraine (I thought maybe because it was right before Theros we’d get a plant or two...a cool adamant spell/creature, etc.)....who knows. There’s still a lot left to spoil.

    Either way... I can’t wait for Theros!
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Semoreh »
    This could be interesting for my version of the deck. I'm creature heavy and my tutor spell is Summoner's Pact and it doesn't require mana ^^
    I don't want it to ever come into play tapped though, so testing will be required.


    Yeah...this is the type of deck I was thinking it would be perfect in. Where having that extra one mana could make a turn. It may not be a big enough effect; but if it works well sometimes and doesn't cause any major downsides; then it Is probably worth it. It is absolutely a card that has to be tested to get a good feel for though.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    We love a challenge here and I'm sure you will find a lot of help on this thread. I'm glad I could help earlier, but I definitely think you will be very pleased having a bunch of smarter individuals than myself help out on here :). The fetch lands can be very important so if you can possibly get even 4 total copies of a blue based fetch lands and possibly red based fetch lands it will really help with flooding and fixing. I know it can be really tough, especially in any area where cards are harder to find, but at least they maintain their value.

    When I get a bit more time to take a look after work I will post more about your deck. With that said, Chaughey's lists are always great place to start because he puts up results big time. We are lucky to have him as a member who posts on here for help.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Gary238 »
    Wolf / Garruk tribal looks super fun. Also worth noting that Oath of Gideon lets you ultimate both the new Garruk and Garruk Wildspeaker immediately after casting them. Abzan tokens/Walkers could be a thing.


    This is a cool idea. I’m going to test this tonight (just my normal “core” but with some Oath of Gideon, 2-3 Garruk Huntsman, and maybe a Nissa Vital Force (as she ult’s immediately with Oath as well).

    _______

    Darn it! I was hoping for the GG creature to be a “etb draw a card” creature (I.e. a Devotion-pushed Elvish Visionary)...but it’s another Stompy-card. It looks like that is where they are headed with Green..more about pumping smaller creatures than ramp.

    I bet the Stompy guys/gals are happy though!
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from StevomatUWR »
    Jim Davis played a league today with Jeskai Copycat without SFM but also with 4 Astrolabes.
    Here's the league

    Funny thing is that he actually plays one match against SebastianStueckl (the guy with the 5-0 posted by GPash) and wins. However, I think the build with SFM is much more resilient and I don't think that Astrolabes are a necessary addtion.

    @CurdBros: I haven't played versus Whirza often with this new deck. But I lost against it pretty often with my Jeskai Delver list.


    Looks like Jim had a tough go of it in that league. I agree that the astrolabes just didn't appear to be all that necessary in many of the games. They would have been better off being a lot of other things in most of those games. I don't think you need the additional speed they offer to the deck. Then again, I have not played the deck and am not a pro so I assume Jim and other pros that have experience with the deck would know much better than me. Teferi looked a little wonky in some of the matchups as well. I'm sure he is excellent in the more grindy matchups, but in other matchups he just looked a bit too slow and didn't affect the game enough. I would likely play only two copies if I wasn't playing spell queller also. I currently have one copy in my list as a "catch all", however my list is extremely different from copy cat.

    What did you find difficult about the matchup with the delver list? I guess it makes sense that a more midrange version of the delver deck without FON would struggle against Whirza, whereas a midrange deck with a combo finish (like copycat) would be favored I would believe. I need more reps against the deck to get a true feeling about the matchup. I do have a maindeck Abrade and Teferi, Time Raveler so my matchup may be slightly better than most. I just need more reps against a skilled opponent I think
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Anuben »
    This land makes only 1 extra Mana. With Garruk 2 Mana. A forrest with Utopia Sprawl makes more.


    This is a good point. It may not be useful in enough scenarios to be included (and really is only super useful in creature-heavy builds of course). You have to:

    (a) Have a creature, creatures, or creature ability

    (b) Need the additional mana to make the trigger worth it.

    (C) have the Castle in play.


    BUT....it makes one extra mana at a pretty low cost to deck building. How often are we hurt by playing it over a Forest or other land? Seems like a tough card to gauge opportunity cost without actually playing it in interactive games.

    And you don’t always have Utopia Sprawl. Redundancy can be important. Sometimes 1-2 mana is all you need to go from casting your 6, 7, or 8-drop drop or not casting it (almost time walking yourself). It is not a game changing land that will always be unreal; but it is a land that can be extremely important in limited scenarios with limited downside.

    It’s no Nykthos; but I believe it has potential in creature-heavy builds. If you’re playing 3 colors or are really heavy into a second color; maybe not...but for someone like me that stays pretty close to mono-green....I think this is likely better than a 7th Forest.

    ** EDIT ** an Issue I just thought of...you can’t use the mana to re-trigger Land with Garruk early (as the 6-mana can’t trigger Land abilities)...you can with Nissa (as she makes it a creature)...but that could be a big strike against it.

    Here is one random Example:


    1. Tap 3 Forests and Castle for 4-G.
    2. Untap a Forest and Castle with Garruk
    3. Tap Forest for 5-G
    4. Trigger Castle and cast Hornet Queen or Primeval Titan and a dork to overrun next turn, etc.

    Sure. This is a remote scenario; but it can happen. Between Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, and Craterhoof Behemoth; there are cards at each CMC which could benefit from 1 additional mana.

    There are absolute downsides to not being a Forest for sure. It’s all about the opportunity cost.

    1. Are the times where it is in your opening hand and you have no other Forest more prevalent than the times you trigger it?

    2. How often is the additional 1-2 mana actually needed?

    3. Would you be better off playing a different land (Blast Zone, Horizon Land, etc.)?

    4. Does it hurt other interactions (like not being a Forest for Nissa Who Shakes the World, Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf, etc.)

    These are all questions we get to answer in testing. Of course Once Upon a Time could help mitigate “only land in your opening hand” and/or “only this+ Nykthos in opening hand” issue(s)...and Nissa’s interaction with it basically negates it not being a Forest...so this is an EXTREMELY tight choice. definitely requires testing to see how it plays in real interactive games.

    When I say a card has potential I mean it is worth testing. Not that it is a Devotion staple or auto-include (those tend to be pretty obvious and are exceedingly rare)...just that it is worth testing.

    I do think even at only an additional 1-2 mana depending on the situation; this still may make the cut in mono-green creature-heavy lists.

    **It also has me interested in what they have planned for Devotion in the next set **
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Now this certainly has some promise...



    With a Nissa WSTW you can trigger it twice in one turn...You can with Garruk too; but at that point you already have a lot of mana. It’s main payoff is ramping you by 1 additional mana (sometimes two).

    This and Once Upon a time is making Primeval Titan look very good (and Craterhoof for that matter) look like a pretty strong option. May just need to all go to straight "ramp into fatties" now that there is enough smoothing and ramping.
    Posted in: Big Mana
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