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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Unfortunately I don't think Outcome will perform very well. In order to demonstrate the loop, you need 11 mana to break even (Garruk+Witness+Outcome), and 12 mana to go infinite... I don't think you'll have enough time to make that work. A similar thing can be done with Cloudstone Curio + Garruk + Xenagos...except with that you only need to net 9 mana to go infinite. And even then, that is hard to string together.

    As much as I'd love to fit an infinite combo in devotion, a lot of times it is too taxing on the core gameplan. Sometimes it's just better to win with Craterhoof than try and go off. I'm keeping my eye out for anything with combo potential though. I've been playing Wilderness Reclamation in Temur to good success, and I think there could eventually be a devotion shell that could maximize mana output with Nykthos and the enchantment. However for now I think the best use for it is mana sinks like Walking Ballista/Polukranos.

    Holding out hope for some sweet toys in Modern Horizons. I'm 95% sure that Wild Growth will be included so that will be a nice upgrade. I can see the core ramp suite to be 4x Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth, cutting birds. That will be more resistant to interaction thankfully.


    1 million percent in the same boat. The way I like to play Devotion lends itself perfectly to an infinite combo...and lord knows i love the Walker Curio Combo....but often requires “do nothing without the combo” cards or just too many slots...Craterhoof works a lot like a “combo” only complaint is that many times it doesn’t win the game outright and it comes with its own deck building constraints.

    The Walker Curio Combo is viable in certain metas; but that is only because the pieces tend to be useful outside of the combo itself...but in fast metas with ample artifact removal; three mana on a non-green card is a large constraint. I’ll always play it when I can...but even with all of the synergy between the cards there still is a downside. I’ve always wondered why a Doubling Season deck wasn’t a Devotion shoe in...but playing a 5-mana engine (I.e a card that has no immediate effect of its own that relies on other cards) is a huge ask.

    I’ve been practicing with cards like Wild Growth, Wall of Blossoms, etc. just to get a feel for them....I haven’t even thought about the silliness of however they are doing the 36 Walkers (as Spark comes before Modern Horizons)....but I don’t want to get too crazy with it until we get the actual spoilers and know what we are working with.

    I do, however, think that we will be one of the “fringe” decks that gets multiple new and powerful cards for the archetype from Horizons. Who knows about Spark Smile


    I also agree we are a good 2-drop away from competing with the faster top of the format decks.

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Snookumz »
    Has anyone tried paradoxical outcome? I know it might sound weird but you can set up a loop of outcome bounce garruk witness recast. Is that unreasonable?

    I haven’t but it sounds fun!!


    I agree that straight land destruction isn’t perfect for Devotion...but a lot of the interaction they use are good tools for us.

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    There are a few matchups I would classify slightly differently, but that is likely just due to deck differences. I would consider Jund and Rock as slightly unfavorable. However, this likely leaves them in the 50/50 section though given they are even post board.

    I agree about Tron being a good matchup. I have very favorable results against them.

    UR storm is another one I would probably put in the 50/50 section instead of bad.

    All in all I think this list is perfect for the average jeskai delver list if people want an overall meta view. Certain matchups will be slightly different given the build but most will be the same, especially the bad matchups.

    Whenever I finally get around to updating the primer I will put a section in on matchups that is updated.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Those young pyromancers look amazing. My next big investment will be to customize my deck. That won’t happen very quickly but I love custom cards. I Especially like the border less cards.

    As for the angels, none of them are my style, but I do agree 3 is my favorite of the bunch.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from Dzung »
    Hi guys, today i was playing at my LGS and my score was 2-2 a quite usual score for me.

    1-2 Grixis Delver
    2-1 some brew BlueBlack Control
    0-2 Tron
    2-1 Death Shadow Zoo.

    The first game against Grixis Delver a got overvalued, played badly and missed my delver triggers.
    The second game he got overwhelmed by two delvers and the third game i flooded so that was the first match.

    Against the UB control i got a bad hand, mulliganed to 5 and got destroyed by 3 planeswalkers.
    However, the 2 second game he got rekt by two swiftspears and so in the third game. I also have to say that opt is a really good card and i liked it a lot.
    Unfortunatley for me postmortem lunge was really disapponting in those 9 games.

    Against tron i played badly and was super unlucky the first game i did a bad sequencing and punted the game. The second one was just a throw.
    I mulliganed to 5 and was stucked on one mana for 5 turns then I just conceded.

    The last match against DeathshadowZoo was really enjoyable the first game i punted hard i got 3 bolts in the hand and he got 9 HP, but i got just 2 red mana and I had forgotten to bolt him at his endstep. I just got overrunned by a deathshadow and tarmogoyf with temur battle rage. I sided in 2 deflecting palms and guess what.He got hit by his own deathshadow when he got 7 HP so he ended up with 1 HP.
    I just ended that game with a bolt. The last game he dealt to much damage to himself and I rekted him with the classic combo of one swiftspear and one flipped delver and one bolt.

    Thanks for the recap Dzung. Those are some really awesome matchups. Your local area sounds awesome.

    I love Deflecting Palm. It's really underrated in decks like ours. Tron is normally a decent matchup, but it's still Tron and can win at any time.

    What do you think worked well and what cards underperformed? I am currently trying a copy of Vendilion Clique and/or Cryptic Command. I think I had too much deck manipulation so I am trying the deck a little bit more like my original build.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    It looks like Ben Friedman has seen the light. In his article today he talks about how good Echoing Truth is in modern right now. He indicates that it is "new tech" that someone named Andy found. Little does he know that we have been playing it for over two years now and have been singing its praises. I'm glad others are starting to see how good echoing truth actually is.

    Now onto today's topic of discussion- how the London mulligan rule affects our deck. I read Todd Anderson's article today and he mentions that deck manipulation and counter magic get worse now. I was wondering how our deck should change or if it should change at all. I had already gone to a 3-4 split of serum visions and opt, but I may cut anther serum visions. It really depends on modern horizons. I currently have two flex slots open that were faithless lootings. I have been wanting to add a little more reach to the deck. I may try a copy of Electrolyze or a copy of Light up the Stage. I have also found Remand to be really good lately so I may try another copy of that. Another idea is to add two copies of Surgical Extraction into the main deck like other decks out there are doing right now. I'm not ready to try this yet, but it really doesn't sound that bad. I will let you all know what I decide before I play Friday.

    Because we don't play a combo or linear style deck, the deck is kind of in flux right now until we see the new cards and how it affects the meta. For now I am sticking with what was working.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Deruvid »
    Quote from CurdBros »

    The only questions I’ve had after the weekend of play is:

    1. Elvish Visionary ca. Coiling Oracle - I nearly always have the blue; so Oracle May be worth it. Started testing it today in place of Visionary.

    2. Do I need more than 1 copy of Eternal Witness - I don’t love it by itself; but it is good with Command. May just run one copy.

    1. If you almost always have blue, then it's worth testing. At 21 lands, the extra landdrop won't proc all that often, and rarely you'll blow up Nykthos, but if there's no other drawback, then it might be the better card.

    2. I've been running a G/r Eternal-Command list using 3 Eternal Witness for a few months now with poor results. Too often I draw it early and have nothing to return with it except a fetchland, which usually isn't great. I'm not often in a position where chaining E.Wit + Primal Command is a great play because I usually need to search for a game-ending threat, not keep their boardstate down. I think I will drop down to 2 copies. 1 might be correct.

    I do have to agree with a lot of what you say here after more testing....

    Eternal Witness is just not great in a permanent-based deck. I tend to play more permanents than most; sonthis skews my opinion. I TOTALLY understand her use in a Genesis Wave deck and even on a more heavily dedicated Primal Command list...but I had too many times where she felt like a dead draw.

    I may just return to Wistful Selkie as my 3-drop of choice. I never loved having ALL of my board having 2 or less toughness (for obvious reasons) but it simply may be the best option. In the past I’ve enjoyed Carven Caryatids; but not being able to attack can matter with Garruk Overrun’s and/or Kessig Wolf Run’s. The additional Devotion can come up though (when you’re really happy you played it!)


    so I got my Raking Canopy’s our feels like two years ago (when I was making a big deal about Cannopy and Silent Arbiter :). There has been some success with Mono-Green land destruction decks (Corbin Bressler, etc.) somwe can definitely learn something from them.

    And trinisphere has been quite strong.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from Dzung »
    Hi guys, I wasn't here for a long time and for some reason they deleted my account and my posts. I am really excited about the modern horizons as you guys. Now i am trying curdbro's deck and to spice it up a I will try Postmortem Lunge eventhough I know it is bad. I will notice you guys later after some testing. I am really excited to play Postmortem Lunge + Geist of Saint Traft or Snapcaster Mage in the graveyard.

    Good to hear from you Dzung. I love the spice. We have to remember that we are supposed to have fun playing the game too so adding spice to a deck is awesome. Even if it's a little worse it worth it when it works :).

    As for modern horizons, it's making my head spin. I can't decide what I want to see. After watching Todd vs Ross on Starcity games it looks like standstill would be amazing, but is probably a little too good for modern. It also creates some bad gameplay. I have been getting more excited about Accumulated Knowledge possibly. There is also Daze too. I think the thing I would like to see most would be some type of "fixed" brainstorm or preordain. I sometimes forget we are getting new cards too, not just reprints. Maybe something like what Emma Handy said:



    Scry 1, draw a card, scry 1.

    That would be awesome for a delver style deck to help flip our delvers.




    Draw 2 cards, put one card from your hand back on top of your library. You may shuffle your library.

    Not sure if just adding a red mana to the cost and cutting a card is still too good for modern or if it's now not good enough.

    My other hope is that we get a few decent modal spells like a better Izzet Charm. That would probably be the best thing for our deck. Maybe a three drop spell that allows you to pick two options. Something like:



    Pick two-
    - Draw a card, and discard a card
    - Deal two damage to any target
    - Counter a spell unless the controller pays 2
    - Return target non-land permanent to the controller's hand.

    The sky is the limit with this set. I always get my hopes up. The set will likely underwhelm in terms of playable cards for our deck, but it's always fun to keep the hope alive and brainstorm.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from StevomatUWR »
    Quote from CurdBros »

    I think they will end up keeping the london mulligan rule and possibly using it as a way to ban Faithless Looting.

    I'd be so happy with that. It would get rid of so many retarded starts from Dredge, Grishoalbrand, Izzet Phoenix and Hollow One who all can get 8-15 power into play on T2-T3 only thanks to that card...

    Btw, I went back to the roots and tweaked my deck a bit more by adding 2x Young Pyro and 1x Jeskai Charm.
    So far the deck feels absolutely fantastic. I am at a 7-0 winning streak again on MTGO Smile
    All additions feel great. Secure the Wastes is never bad. Echoing Truth still is one the MVP cards--won me two matches: against Ad Nauseam and Troll Worship.
    I attached a screenshot of my current deck.

    That's awesome StevomatUWR. I often have to "get back to the basics" when I get a little crazy tinkering with my deck. I have to simplify back to what made the deck great in the beginning. I have stated before I have a bit of a "tinkering" problem.

    Mazeron I agree with you about the mulligan rule. I think a lot more people are going to enjoy it rather than hate it. I think it will help the degenerate decks, but not by a tone. Hopefully modern horizons helps the non-combo decks.

    Now onto the planewalker news! We will be getting ral, saheeli, terferi, narset, jace, chandra, ajani, and more! I am sure at least one will fit in our deck. I hope that they go all the way down to 2 drop planewalkers. I think they will because they have 36 walkers. It will be interesting to see the new planeswalker designs.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    So...the Superfriends archetype should get a boost from War of the Spark...considering there will be 36 new Planeswalkers in a single set!! Looks like Oath of Nissa is gonna be REALLY good soon Smile
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I totally agree. Leyline of Sanctity will almost be a must have in the sideboard after the london mulligan rule is in place. My hope is that modern horizons adds some powerful midrange threats and powerful answers so that modern slows down just a tad. I don't want modern to slow down too much because we delver players normally have a pretty great track record against most combo decks. However, I just love playing against midrange decks. The long games with tons of decisions are just a ton of fun to play even though they have been some of our worst matchups in the past.

    I think they will end up keeping the london mulligan rule and possibly using it as a way to ban Faithless Looting. That is baseless speculation on my part, but I do think they will stick with the london mulligan rule at least in modern and standard. I have heard multiple people say it's way to good for vintage dredge, but I play literally no vintage magic so I have no idea.

    As for my deck, I am back to the original build until I see what comes out of Modern Horizons. Changing Remand into Daze made me realize just how good Remand is in our deck. It's never a truly dead card. I think to take advantage of Daze I would have to remake the deck from the ground up.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I didn't test sphinx with the new rule but did test against decks like dredge, phoenix, hardened scales, etc. For the most part I didn't see a giant difference. The only glaring difference I noticed is that you don't get the "free" wins from decks like dredge. Dredge seemed to benefit the most. They have several cards that they definitely don't want in their opener and can mulligan often. The new rule seemed to really smooth out dredges gameplan when I tested against it.

    Another deck that I heard a lot of people thought would benefit was Tron. However, I didn't see that. It seemed just about the same in terms of consistency.

    Other than dredge I didn't see a major difference. However, I didn't get to play with a several decks (amulet titan, whir prison, and GBx midrange) in the format due to time constraints.

    We are going to do it again this week so I will let you guys know if I notice anything else.

    As for our deck I actually really liked the rule
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    this new london mulligan could be potentially broken. Sphinx of foresight will be very very powerful now if this mulligan rule takes hold.

    My playgroup has implemented the new mulligan rule during testing and I can say from my minimal experience that is is VERY good for some decks. I have really enjoyed it for our deck. Jeskai delver is notoriously (at least for us) a poor deck at mulliganing. However, this new rule really helps. Because we basically have a dedicated early game and late game, you can basically shuffle your late game stuff back into the deck and keep your early game stuff in your hand which is really helpful.

    I haven't played sphinx of foresight with the new rule yet, but it is likely one of the cards that really benefits similar to the leylines.

    My plan is to playtest Divert next in terms of cards that may be reprinted that we can use.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Uegjo »
    Thanks for the kind words and good luck with the primer CurdBros!

    Great input aedrew. Have never been a fan of finks myself but maybe I should give it a try. Just seems so low impact as it doesn't line up against H1, anglers, shadows and goifs. While the scooze is mediocre at best vs phoenix it's so versatile that I'd be reluctant to cutting it. Dechs like dredge, H1 and living end needs some GY hate and I think scooze is our best option given the amount of green we make.

    Have been looking around for an early defensive creature, even considered hornets nest (although not blocking flying is an issue). But yeah, maybe finks is just the best option for us.

    Thanks! Your portion will be up tomorrow afternoon (with approximately 40% of the primer changing!)

    Hornets Nest is a cool idea.

    I hadn’t thought about how good Primal Command was right now...this weekend I played:

    Sideboard is just what I came up with on the fly and would change with more play.

    This is more of what I think of as “Green Control”. I love playing things like Titan builds and Combo builds...and this is the other side of decks I’m comfortable playing.

    I always try to figure out how we can take advantage of Devotion (for me it’s generally card draw and mana sinks)...but Devotion requires us to fill the board with permanents. The only ways i know to do that are either get Devotion built up super fast to “go off” by turn four; or you make the game go as long as you can so the Devotion can get built up and used. This is more of the latter style.

    The only questions I’ve had after the weekend of play is:

    1. Elvish Visionary ca. Coiling Oracle - I nearly always have the blue; so Oracle May be worth it. Started testing it today in place of Visionary.

    2. Do I need more than 1 copy of Eternal Witness - I don’t love it by itself; but it is good with Command. May just run one copy.

    ***will provide game info tomorrow***
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Hi all. I tested Daze a little last night. I am sorry to report that I was a little underwhelmed. It really wasn't extremely effective unless I was in the lead. Daze just doesn't fit really well into my current build. I still think the card would be a great addition to modern, but I would definitely have to tweak my deck.

    With that said, I need to change my build to a more straight tempo oriented style build to really benefit from Daze. I will put together a list thatis more conducive to daze before I test it again. I think the builds that will benefit the most will be young pyromancer/monastery mentor builds. I think Daze would really help straight tempo style builds compete in modern. I will keep you posted on what I come up with in terms of a different list to utilize daze.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
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