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Magic Market Index for April 20th, 2018
Pauper Review: Dominaria
The Limited Archetypes of Dominaria
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rolfgang »
    Going to test my Simic deck with the Arcane Adaptation and Turntimber Ranger combo tonight against a couple of friends. Will probably test it against Naya Darwin's Toolbox/Combo, Goblins, D&T and a weird infinite artifact combo (not KCI) a friend is testing. Sideboard is currently all over the place and I'm especially testing to see which win-con stacks up the best next to the Arcane Ranger combo. Also trying out Nissa, Steward of Elements for the digging next to Genesis Hydra (yes, I know they are a nonbo). Any suggestions are of course welcome!

    Really neat list! I love the idea of putting a combo in a Devotion deck where possible (the Devoted Druid/Vizier combo is great, I think the Madcap Expirement combo is a viable option for us, the Freed From the Real combo with both Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl and/or Bloom Tender is cool, etc.)...

    I don't think you would be wrong to play Genesis Hydra and Nissa, Steward of Elements. I would actually advise it. While they don't work well together in a few is extremely rare that this will come up (and both are great ways to get to your combo pieces). Little nombos are not a big deal when both cards are great additions to the overall deck plan. I've played both and loved when I scry'd with Nissa and knew I was going to have a Hydra the next turn Smile

    MirageJenius also played this combo for a bit; so they would be a great source of discussion as well.

    This is a tentative Stompy Devotion list I'm planning on playing once Dominaria hits:

    BBE into Steel Leaf and Rhonas are great. Nylea and Rhonas make great mana dumps for large amounts of mana... also trample pairs very nicely with Colossus and Polukranos. GGG makes it easier to turn Nylea on as well. Overall took the curve down to better prepare for Damping Sphere.

    This looks really strong. Doesn't NEED Devotion, but actually takes advantage of it...great list. With the right board I think this is a truly viable deck.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Dos_Rouge »
    have you used liliana, the last hope in any of your walker lists?

    jund itself drives me crazy, in my recent round of losing too it, the guy was using the -2 ability to use and abuse the same bloodbraid elf for a lot of dig/gas.

    considering how creature centric we tend to be I'm considering black mana splash for her.

    That's actually a really interesting idea. I could totally see a Jund version of Walker deck or even just Golgari (as we have plenty of awesome creatures to use)...I am a BIG fan of the Vraska, Relic Seeker (it is a really powerful card)...and Liliana, the Last Hope is actually a really interesting idea...she is early tiny creature removal, and her -2 is really good not only just because we play a lot of creatures; but likely performs well with Eternal Witness and to a lesser extent Nissa, Vital Force.

    Super interesting idea. I haven't tried it yet...but I could totally see a Golgari Walker deck being strong (as you would have access to both Liliana TLH and Vraska RS as well as a ton of great sideboard options).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    A lot of discussion going on since I've been away the last few days!

    Couple things that caught my eye -

    I dig the discord idea. I check here throughout the day, so it's nice to have a more dynamic place to discuss Smile

    I also believe that a CMC-breakdown would be a great addition to the primer. There are so many options of Devotion, it would certainly help newer players narrow in on the most important cards.

    @Curdbros I dig your inclusion of BBE! I know it's a nonbo with certain cards, but sometimes you have to embrace the variance. Also, is there a reason for the Ballistas over something like Karn? I remember your earlier curio builds used him as an alternate win condition. Does Ballista fill a similar infinite mana dump role? (Also, it's Gruul, like in Gruul Ragebeast :P)

    It is. It is a way to spend infinite mana and a win-con "sink" that does not require an additional turn. It is also a great way to win through certain hate (Ensnaring Bridge, etc.) as I run a TON of artifacts and hate cards in the board. It's also just a great card in multiple types of Devotion decks. Gives us means of killing small creatures early and larger creatures late and gives us the potential for direct damage. It has a smaller synergy in the Simic deck as well as it is an artifact (which counts for Karn's tokens). It is not a huge deal; but having a Ballista and Curio on board makes his tokens 3/3's to start...

    The deck still runs one "Big" Karn and three Little ones Smile The truth is generally once you have the combo; you have a lot of different ways to win. A few include:

    1. Use Abundant Growth, Elvish Visionary, or Coiling Oracle (or Oath if in the deck) to draw out the deck and kill however you like. You can also use Karn and Nissa to draw out the deck (although nissa can only draw creatures and can then use a creature like Visionary or Oracle to draw out the deck). Karn can also get any card because even if a Karn leaves play, the exiled cards still remain in exile with Silver counters on them to be "grabbed" by later/new Karns.)
    2. Use Nissa SOE to turn all lands into 5/5 flying haste creatures (can use Nissa's other abilities or CoilingOracle to put more lands on board if need be).
    3. Pour infinite mana into Walking Ballista
    4. Use Karn Liberated to exile the opponents hand and board.
    5. Use Acidic Slime to destroy the opponent's lands (all)
    6. In the Gruull version you can simply make infinite 2/2 haste Satyrs and attack same turn; but both can make infinite tokens of many types.

    Yeah...BBE is crazy good (especially when you can bounce him and re-play him) Smile I currently prefer the Simic version (because it digs/draws better); but in honesty I don't know which is "better".

    Thanks for the heads up on mispelling of Gruul. I probably won't go back and fix it; but will make sure it is correct in the future.

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Primer is down for a bit. Will update when it has uploaded (as the "Preview" function shows only one issue needing fixing).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Alright ladies and gents. Here are my takeaways from my recent testing. I tested against Jund and Boggles.


    I know I sound like a broken record, but Bedlam Reveler is sooooo good here. Snapcaster Mage and Reveler give us the card advantage needed to keep up with Jund. As for my sideboard I currently only side in three cards - Celestial Purge, Chandra, Pyromaster, and Jace, the Mindsculptor. I basically just make the curve slightly higher with higher impact card on the top end. The games will likely go a bit longer because of all of the removal that both decks have. Therefore, having some high end threats that offer card advantage can be super helpful. Honestly, the pure tempo style deck doesn't really work because of all of Jund's removal spells and hand disruption. We need some haymakers against them They do take a load of damage from their lands and Dark Confidants so burn spells are very useful. Slip Through Space is also very good here.

    My basic plan is to keep up with them for the most part in card advantage and then burn them out or kill them with a lot of attacks for 3 damage or so. Basically classic aggro-control. Geist obviously makes this a lot eaiser.


    -They take a lot of damage from lands, thoughtseize, and bob so burn is good here and you can take an aggro control style plan.
    -A few high end spells that specifically offer either damage or card advantage are necessary- Reveler, Snapcaster, Jace, Chandra, Hazoret, etc
    -Slip Through Space and Emerge Unscathed are also very good against Goyf decks.
    -Spell Snare is very useful against them if you run it.
    -Spell Pierce also over-performed in a lot of my games against Liliana, Kologhan's command, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.


    This was an idea from one of my friends because it won the last GP and he was definitely right because it did well again this week.

    In game one it's just super hard to win, especially if they gain life. On the play we can definitely get out ahead and use spell pierce, spell snare, remand, etc to keep them from a big threat an win. On the draw, it's probably a 80/20 matchup in their favor. Echoing Truth is a true blow out against them. On one play the opponent attacked with a 9/7 boggle with two Ethereal Armor and a Rancor on their creature. I cast Echoing Truth during combat and blocked with a snapcaster mage and the boggle died. It was the blowout I needed to win the game.

    Post board we get a ton better. Deflecting Palm is an absolute house against them. As is Engineered Explosives. When I drew one or both of those cards I typically won the game. Blessed Alliance is also good, but many of the new decks run the cartouche that makes a creature for that reason so it's not as strong. Counter magic was surprisingly good against them even remand. Spell Snare is also great. The one card we really want to keep them off of is Daybreak Coronet. I pathed my own creature in one game to avoid them gaining life and it helped me win the game.

    I basically tried to get myself to a point where I had access to snapcaster mage with deflecting palm and/or echoing truth and the game was rather winnable from there. Spellskite may need to make a comeback into our sideboards if boggles continues to grow. This is almost the exact opposite of jund in the fact that we want to become a rather lean deck with less top end. We still want to play an aggro-control style game plan, but moreso towards the aggro or tempo end of the spectrum.

    Many of the boggles lists are running main deck Leyline of Sanctity so burn becomes a tough call. I still want burn to finish them off, but I do sideboard out some burn because of Leyline.


    - Post board Deflecting Palms are amazing. EE is great as well.
    - The mainboard cards that really matter are echoing truth and counter magic especially spell snare if you have it in your deck
    - May need spellskite in the future if boggles grows.
    - Keeping them off of Daybreak Coronet is a must.
    - Leyline can be tough because burn helps us finish them off. I side out a few burn spells, but also side out a number of paths.

    This week I will work on testing against the hollow one deck because I haven't played against it much and need some practice.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Modern URx Wizards (Wizard Tribal)
    I Love me some Wee Dragonauts. I really like how he fits in my wizards deck too. It's tough to include too many 3 drops, but it's a super fun card. It's in my cube and it reminds me of some of my first Izzet decks.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Help with Mono Green Devotion Deck (Primalcrux)
    What format are you playing in? Can you utilize only Modern-legal cards?

    There is a Green Devotion primer (as a matter of fact and brand-spanking new primer will be up late night tonight Smile This, however, assumes you are talking Modern...

    If so, please feel free to post there as well. It is a great community that would be happy to help. I will post here tomorrow as well with as much info (in a concise manner of course) as possible.
    Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Random Aside...this is the "Grull" version of Walker Combo I am currently trying (I have been going back and fourth between the Simic Version and the Grull version)...I feel like the Black Splash and White Splash lend themselves better to non-combo versions of a Walker deck. The deck plays relatively similar to a "normal" devotion deck with the main difference being the combo infinite mana/dra/damage win condition.

    Few current thoughts"

    1. Bloodbraid Elf was a strong addition to the deck.
    2. Still not entirely sure that Oath of Nissa shouldn't just be Abundant Growth (as it doesn't hit Curio)...but Oath is awesome.
    3. Reclamation Sage is currently a "test" card in the main.
    4. Bloodbraid Elf and Walking Ballista is a this could be an issue. Hasn't been a huge issue yet; but I'm sure it will happen.

    The Red version (Grull Version) has the benefit of not needing Nykthos to go infinite (as Xenagos can "go off" without Nykthos)...its really nice when three different walkers can generate mana (Garruk, Xenagos, and Chandra). It is a little less resilient and does not dig as much as the blue version; but can create more tokens. There are pros and cons to both...I can't yet say one is superior to the other (but I am trying to find out).

    Current Simic Version (for my own use to have both lists in same spot)

    Not certain the Fertile Grounds are necessary; but I have liked the play patterns so I don't want to screw it up too much Smile It is likely they would be better as two copies of Oath of Nissa or even another high-CMC card but I'll have to test it.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    That's awesome Lord! Legacy Devotion would be awesome! And I'd call you a Veteran at this point Smile

    P.S. The Primer may go down for a little while today or at minimum look pretty funny for a few hours (while I add the new one in). It will only effect the first page...but I wanted to give a heads up just in case.


    In terms of what 2-, 3-, and 4-drops to use (and really every other cost up the curve) I really do believe the deck structure and "purpose" will help make these decisions for you.

    A good example of this is Wolfbriar Elemental. It is not a card I play in most decks; but in my current list it has performed quite well. The reason, however, is because I have the ability to bounce it. It functions as a 4-drop 4/4 in the absolute worst case scenario...however with Clodustone CurioI can re-cast and re-kick it whenever I have the extra mana. Obviously, ever 2/2 for G is where the real power in the card is. Essentially, if I kick Wolfbriar for anything over 2, traditionally I will win the next turn.

    Having said all of this, it is not a card I would advise for a majority of Devotion decks. I think it can be a good one-of in attrition-based match ups; but there are other good options available. This is the importance deck construction plays in our choices. I also tend to heavily weight (likely more than most would) permanent-mana sinks and cards that net card advantage (i.e. things that explicity draw a card or cards, planeswalkers, etc.) upon resolution.

    BTE is a perfect example of this as well. If I play BTE, I play Summoner's Pact...and this means the deck is going to be more linear and more explosive. BTE is a great card in this deck...but there are a lot of Devotion decks where it just underperforms. I also play Elvish Visionary, Coiling Oracle, and Fertile Ground at 2-CMC...I think more decks should consider these cards...but again their use is based on deck construction (where many decks would likely prefer Strangleroot Geist and other decks forego the 2-drop slot altogether). By playing so many 2-drops, however, I am also forced to play a few more 1-drops (like Abundant Growth, Oath, etc.) as turn 2 will often involve playing BOTH a 2-drop and a 1-drop (rather than a 3-drop). The patterns of play over my experience/time with the deck have helped define what cards I can/should play.

    I think you are ABSOLUTELY right, however, that it would be super helpful to have a CMC-based analysis in the Primer. I have something somewhat similar; but I will work now to break it down into CMC-sections. Hopefully this will help new players decide what is best for their decks. Great point!

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Modern URx Wizards (Wizard Tribal)
    Craig Wescoe wrote an article today about modern wizards (specifically with Naban). Here is a link Wescoe&articledate=4-13-2018
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    The meta is really becoming better and better for us. The “fairer” it gets; the stronger we beccome. I truly believe Damping Sphere is good for us (as our biggest weakness has always been linear fast combo). Granted, it’s not great for us (hurts my Walker Combo a lot) BUT we have the easiest time utilizing artifact hate that is very natural to our deck. I’m really excited for the coming Modern Meta
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I am going to test against Jund tonight and take a bunch of notes to see where we can gain an advantage. I will edit this post with all of my play notes.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from mistahARK »
    Nooo I totally misread the card and just went off convinced that it said something else...:frown:

    I'm just gonna leave my previous post up as a monument to "read the card".

    It is definitely still one of the better artifact/enchantment hate cards available, and in decks that run high numbers of Oath, it can just be a ramp spell too.

    Probably more sideboard material though, debatable if its actually better than Reclamation Sage though (tutorable).

    I have done that in the past. I had a heart attaack when I first read Maulfist took me like three times to read it (as I was certain it couldn't be what I thought for the cost...).

    But you are right that it is a really cool card. Enchantment/artifact removal with an upside...nice. I do have hate i prefer a little more; but thus definitely has its uses for sure.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Finishing up Primer now. Will be up this evening! I will send a post when it is up. If I can't get the formatting right on these last images; I will still post it (and just fix it later).


    Karn, Scion of Urza has been suprisingly strong. In play it is pretty insurmountable. I REALLY like where the Walker Combo deck is at. It finally feels like I can hit the combo extremely consistently; but most importantly that all of the peices work together WITHOUT the combo (i.e. the deck can easily win without it). That was always one of the weaknesses in the deck in the past that no longer exists. My favorite part is what an opponent last night said...he said, "the thing is, I don't know what to remove...I don't know what is important to deal with and what not to worry about..." With creatures, walkers, artifacts, enchantments, and important lands...the opponent is kind of left deciding what to remove and also whether they should try to attack me or the walkers (if they can profitably attack). I would like to get a few more artifacts in the deck (although my board is heavily in artifacts) to take advantage of Karn SOU's -2 ability...but that can come later. I'm really liking it. I'm down to just two Devotion decks (one being the Walker Combo deck) and feel like i have solidified what I think works best for me in Devotion.

    The other card I've been really happy with is Wolfbriar Elemental.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    Quote from CurdBros »

    For the first time, I simply disagree with you outright on a Devotion topic. Apart from AoH Stompy, I have never seen a Green Devotion build that Garruk does not improve.
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    Quote from CurdBros »

    For the first time, I simply disagree with you outright on a Devotion topic. Apart from AoH Stompy, I have never seen a Green Devotion build that Garruk does not improve.

    I agree for the most part. As I said, The vast majority of decks will want Garruk. I do, however, think there are a few Devotion decks that can get away without playing Garruk. These include Stompy as well as some of the more “value-town-esq” lists I’ve seen lately.

    I personally consider Garruk a “staple” of Devotion...but I do think it’s super important we also challenge our perceptions. If people feel Bloodbraid is better for their lists..they should at least try it.

    I do agree with what you say though...there a VERY few decks that should even think about removing Garruk.
    Posted in: Big Mana
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