The Limited Archetypes of Guilds of Ravnica
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from GarfieldKlon »
    Ok, thats a cool Combo. Every Card in this Combo is useful on its own . Maybe its time for a Golgari Counters Devotion Deck Evil Lol .
    Maybe i did a brew next Time.

    I’d love to see it! There was a time I was all about +/l1/+1 counters (Nissa VOZ, Balista, Ajani Mentor, and Finks are all great with counter synergy); but I tried to cram too much in one deck. Probably just having the combo, Nissa, and good Devotion cards is all it would take really. We can also learn some things from the current counters decks.


    Questions for the Community

    Quick questions on the above list:

    1. You think I can get away with 3 copies but of Bird of Paradise instead of 4? I Would likely replace it with another Nissa Steward of Elements, Courser, or a Singleton.

    2. Is Assassin’s trophy a 3-of in a board with black?
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I also play Devotion as a Combo Deck (rather than a toolbox deck or value deck) as I tend to base all my decks on my "Devotion Philosophy"...not that this is a novel idea. I think most Devotion decks on here (even those playing a lot of value cards) still play much like a combo deck too (Craterhoof often acts like a 1-card combo Smile ). Attacking with creatures is normally my secondary option for winning the game.

    I started this post with my long-winded philosophy on Devotion...until I realized that most people wouldn't want to read it! Ha! Needless to say, I'm happy to let anyone that wants to know; but am not so "smart" to think that my opinion on how to play Devotion is better than anyone else. I just love learning from everyone on here and being part of an awesome community.

    Below is the Walker Deck I've been playing recently.

    Obviously, it is the same essetial core as most of my Walker decks; but the interaction includes Jace's bounce,a single Vraska for her Abrupt Decay, Acidic Slime, and Polukranos (and then of coruse a board of nearly all interaction). Very similar to the Red version (just different walkers for the most part). This deck in particular plays very much the way I like to play Devotion (lower CMC, more card draw, more advantage, more mana sinks, etc.)

    I've been trying a few different boards. One actually utilizes white (as I really don't HAVE to use an Overgrown tomb as the only black card in the main is Vraska, Golgari Queen. I have really like Vraska, however. She is a great "global answer" to non-land permanent (having access to Abrubpt Decay is nice in any match up) in the main...but between Oath, Birds, and Utopia Sprawl I can still play her even if the deck doesn't splash black. I REALLY want to be able to play Knight of Autumn (as it takes up so few slots while providing life-gain, artifact/enchantment hate, and potential beats...but it's going to take a few more games for me to be certain if white is needed to deal with the match ups I want to deal with.

    I know the deck currently plays 61 cards. I haven't decided whether I want to play 20 or 21 lands...but I feel like 21 is better even if it pushes the deck to 61 cards. There is nothing I want to remove; so if the deck plays better at 61 (with 21 lands) than so be it!

    If the meta moves into a meta fully of Jund, Spirits, Humans, etc. it really helps us in my opinion. We can gum up the board and go over the top of such decks. Obviously I tend to play decks that have a little more "value" than some others, but nearly all Green Devotion decks perform better when creature-based, board-based opponents compared to the hyper-linear/stack-based decks like Storm, Infect, etc. The board options available ot us make it very easy to utilize the best form of interaction possible in games 2 and 3; while we also have general interaction like Acidic Slime, Command, Vraska, etc. and now potentially Assassin's Trophy in the main for any problem permanents.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Matchup of the week time!

    This weeks matchup is - Bant Spirits

    Overview- This matchup is super weird in my opinion. I have beaten it very easily and have lost to it horribly. Bascially they have four cards we really care about- Drogskol Captian, Phantasmal Image, Mausoleum Wanderer, and some lists have Geist of Saint Traft. The worst is when they land a drogskol captain and then phantasmal image giving all of the creatures hexproof. That is tough to come back from. The mausoleum wanderer can cause headaches with early removal so I try to get rid of those too.

    With all of that said, they are weak to burn in general so we can take an aggro or tempo role comfortably in game one if our hand dictates that. I make sure to always bolt drogskol captains as soon as I can (they can still be targeted because they say all "other" spirits have hexproof). I have noticed in my playtesting and playing that Echoing Truth has been very good against them because they run a bunch of four of's and often have multiple copies of creatures.

    The matchup itself often becomes a back and forth grindy matchup. I have noticed that a lot of games end with me burning them out. They really depend on getting an overwhelming board state and flying over opponents. If you can keep the lords off the field we normally have enough power level to beat them. I would say overall it's a 55/45 matchup in our favor (like a lot of matchups).


    I typically side in Engineered Explosives, Abrade, and Dispel I believe. Other good options are Detention Sphere, Settle the Wreckage, Grim Lavamancer, or even Surgical Exraction if you have a bunch of cards that aren't good in your main deck. For the more aggro burn lists Deflecting Palm can also be decent.

    The post board matchup is much of the same. I don't think the matchup gets any better or worse. Let me know what I missed.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Mender »
    Can be Vigor a good option? Even mana dorks can block forever.

    I once built a fun Deck with Vigor, Walking Ballista, and Hardened Scales (can use Snake too...but at the time I used Scales...) for what I assumed was an "infinite counter into infinite damage" combo deck. It was a blast to play. I had built it as a Devotion deck, so its possible there is a better build out there with those cards; but I enjoyed playing it (as the cards are pretty good by themselves even if you don't build the combo).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Full Set Gallery Up
    Selective Snare seems interesting for modern sideboards possibly if your deck struggles with humans.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Modern URx Wizards (Wizard Tribal)
    Thanks for suggestions. Yesterday i made my first local tournament with this deck and made 2-2 losing to Infect (mulligan to 6 with 1 land, never find the 2nd; G2 never had to kill an inkmoth nexus and lose quickly to double mutagenic growth and other pump spells) and Abzan (G1 he grinded me with souls and discard spell, G2 i won stealing a tarmogoyf and bolting him, G3 he saw mostly every threat in his deck and i wasn't able to come back after he surgical extraction my bolts). I won against jeskai ascendancy combo countering that card 3 time with mana leak and snappy and Affinity in so close games.

    I felt like we miss something in the SB like, as you said, echoing truth also to get rid of tokens. I won through leyline of sanctity killing with delvers! Love the deck!

    2-2 is a good record in my book. Any time I'm at or above 50% I am happy. The best players in the world win about 60% of the time (and that often includes 3 byes).

    Infect normally isn't to bad of a matchup, but variance can cause a loss no matter what you are playing against. When you get land screwed there isn't much you can do. Abzan on the other hand is a super tough mathcup. They have so much value. I do love Echoing Truth against lingering souls decks. It can also catch a couple of Tarmogoyfs. With the printing of Assassin's Trophy I am really trying to make sure my board is set up well against these midrange decks which will likely pick up in modern.

    I feel like every game that delver flips within two turns I end up winning. It's just such a efficient card and if you can protect it, it ends the game quickly.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Modern URx Wizards (Wizard Tribal)
    Hi all, I've been testing the deck for some days online. How do we win through leyline of sanctity? We have to scoop and hope to not find other match up like Bogles?

    Hi MerflkCricket. As a jeskai delver player myself I typically have to hope to have Spell Snare and Spell Pierce in hand and get a clock going and also hope they are a little slow. Even if all that happens we are like 30% chance to win game one against a boggles deck.

    That's the bad news. The good news is that we have sideboard options. Unfortunately, some are cards that jeskai has access to that UR does not have access to - Deflecting Palm, Blessed Alliance, and Wear // Tear. Engineered Explosives is an absolute house against boggles and can be ran in UR. A card a lot of people don't play, but I really like is Echoing Truth. It does a great job bouncing leylines (no matter how many they play) and is very versatile. However, I play one copy maindeck and none in my board. Spell Snare is a great option against the Daybreak Coronet. From a UR perspective I'm not sure what else people typically run. I usually depend on the above cards.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Guilds of Ravnica - afterthoughts, please share your likes & dislikes
    Overall I like the set. However, as an izzet player I feel they really did a very poor job with jump start and izzet in general. Two of the izzet uncommons were reprints (goblin electromancer and wee dragnouts). Also, having two of the mythic rare and rare slots taken up by enchantments in a shard that likes spells is really a miss. Mostly though I am upset just how overcosted they made the jump start spells. Nearly all of them are larger costed spells that don't really lend themselves to working with the wizard tempo style. I really thought with prowess as a keyward and wizards being such a big draw recently they would have had a few efficiently costed jump start spells. They may have them at common or uncommon later. Risk Factor is interesting and I think correctly costed so there is hope. I always look foward to getting a new Ral Zarek planeswalker, but always hope they will cost it effectively to be played in modern. The new one is not even close and is overshadowed by Teferi. It's not a bad card, just not a great card.

    With all of that said, it looks like maybe they chose for izzet to be a "dimir support" to combo with surveil. It looks like they wanted izzet to be more control based rather than tempo based this time. Possibly to work well in a Grixis style deck.

    I am biased as an izzet player, but I think they overpowered dimir and golgari, did a good job with selesnya and boros, and kind of fumbled through izzet. Does anyone agree/disagree? I also must say I play nearly 100% modern so I typically evaluate cards on that level. I do think standard izzet will be a fun deck, but likely won't be competitive unless it splashes black.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I like the new card, but it's competing with Electrolyze which gives two damage and 1 card for sure. The upside of the new card is higher, but I think it's downside is worse. It really just depends on what style deck you are playing. In a more aggro-control style deck, I think electorlyze is better. In a more aggro/prowess style deck Risk Factor is likely a better option.

    -Can hit creatures
    -2 Damage
    -1 Card
    -UR cost

    Risk Factor
    -Can't hit creatures
    -4 damage to face
    -3 cards possible
    -only R cost.
    -can be "flashed" back.

    Basically one has more utility and the other has more power. I think if Risk Factor fits into your strategy it will likely be the better option due to it's increase in power level and because it can be jump started.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Wow. A Browbeat x2 at instant speed. That's a fun card- Risk Factor. Not sure how powerful because it's a situational card, but it's a really cool card. I bet Dzung is happy to see this one!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    I completely agree StevomatUWR. I just can't see how this deck has performed so well. I will have to test it out and see what is strong and what is not. I have played figure of destiny in the past, but that was like 3+ years ago.

    Also I didn't answer your question from earlier. I prefer Forked Bolt over all of the options.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Good Call Gofytomcat. The deck has really evolved over the past couple of years. I loved the deck and played it the entire time, but Opt really gave us the kick we needed after the Gitaxian Probe ban. I need to get a copy of Unsubstantiate back into the deck. I love the card and with all of the UW control going around, it's nice to have a semi answer to Supreme Verdict. We also salute you for your tireless efforts helping all of us.

    Jinholic- That looks like a killer deck. If you manage to get a Clout of Dominus on Mantis Rider or Lightning Angel you basically win. My only concern is that you don't have any early threats. Against creature decks you should dominate. However, against combo decks you will have a tough time without an early clock. With that said, unsubtantiate lets you draw the game out long enough to get some threats down. I would probably say cut a couple of clout of dominus and possibly add a copy or two of Cryptic Command or possibly Negate to help against the more spell heavy matchups. Or you could just leave it as is and make your sideboard heavy against the unfair decks. I have never actually seen the card Nix so I will have to think about that one.

    Great call on Hallowed Moonlight. I didn't think about how good that card is against the bridgevine decks. I have Surgical Extraction, but hallowed moonlight is much better against the bridge decks.

    Also when you have a bunch threats with vigilance Savor the Moment becomes a neat card. It's a bit cute but with all of the threats with vigilance it would be fun to try. It's one of my pet cards (that's why I built a second deck to play it). I wouldn't recommend adding it to the deck as it is, but it's something to keep in mind.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Mr.Tzoulis- That is a great point about Invert // Invent. I didn't even think of that. It may be really cool and do some serious damage.

    As for mission briefing my testing last night did show that the card is super powerful. Here is what I have found so far in terms or pros and cons:

    -Digs very deep
    -Helps set up delver flips/miracle triggers
    -Multiple times I found an answer that I needed utilizing MB
    -Spell for Bedlam Reveler and Snapcaster Mage (and possibly the new drake)

    -UU casting cost. I found several times that trying to play MB into Opt is tough early to have three blue sources.
    -No card advantage on it's own. This isn't to bad, but it makes it a pretty poor early play.

    Basically I found that the card plays extremely similar to what I expected. It's great in a late game/grindy matchup and is decent in the mid game. Consistency is super important to our deck so I do think this will be a 1 or 2 of in almost all UR tempo/midrange/control decks. To be honest we tested against UW control and included this card in the control deck and it was even better in the control deck so I think control players will be very happy with it. I personally will be playing 1 copy for the foreseeable future and will continue to test two copies to see if that is better.

    Stevomat- I would love to share the list. It's in it's infancy, but here it is:

    It hasn't been tested enough for me to say it's close to correct, but it's a ton of fun to play. I really want another copy of the new Ral Zarek so I may cut something to add another copy.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Mothership Spoilers 9-13
    I have tested this card in my jeskai delver deck over the past couple of days and it definitely performs very well. It's not game breaking like snapcaster mage, but it adds additional instant speed filtering which gives more consistency. I actually think it may work out really well as a 1 or 2 of in a control
    or midrange style deck. Mission's Briefing is really powerful in the mid/late game and is playable in the early game (just not as effective). As others have stated, the costing cost is likely the biggest draw back. If you want to play mission briefing into opt you have to have UUU which can be tough to get early in a three color deck. Other than that the card has been great so far. If you play a delver deck it helps set up delver flips as well. I know very few people actually do play delver in modern, but it's still a nice pro for the card. After testing, I think a lot of different blue decks will play this as a 1 or 2 of regularly in the mainboard with decks like UR TITI and UR Moon playing possibly more copies.

    I do think this is a great buy at $10 and I would pay $15 for them after a small bit of testing. I do have to say that my sample size for testing has been very small, but so far the card has been very good.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rendroc »
    If you can't kill creatures, then Humans will just wreck you. You need to have answers to Mage and Freebooter. That's why I like my Garruk Green with Ballista list, or even the Constrictor list (which I haven't tested nearly as much).

    Fulgence says he kept winning against Humans, which seems odd to me. Maybe it has to do with the fact that people aren't prepared to play against Green Devotion and don't name the correct cards with Mage.

    I do think that this has a lot to do with it. Freebooter is a beater (as they can see what they want before they take it) but they just aren't familiar enough with Devotion to know what to stop with Meddling Mage. I don't mind not having much (although if I remember correctly, he doesn't have any) main-deck creature removal (as you can do your thing game one and then side in removal) but you are right that Humans should be a rough one. It is possible that his game one plan is just good enough to out-value them in some games too.

    Quote from P0PTATZ » this is the list i am thinking of taking to a pptq. im not 100% on the main or sideboard but i came to the conclusion with this deck that i never really want more than 5 sb cards for any match up. so i started tinkering to try to find the 5 i want... is trinisphere good in the board? what is it good against and what should i be looking at as my worst match ups? tron/storm?

    I actually really like this list...although 19 lands is living on the edge Smile Chock full of value. Multiple sinks...the board seems built for this specific deck. Every card is a good card on its own (save BTE). Yeah, this looks good. It would be great against any board-based opponent. I don't hate having creature hate in the board (just hope to win game on your game plan and then move into removal games 2-3).
    Posted in: Big Mana
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