I had a crazy idea recently. What do you guys think about using the new Ice-Fang Coatl? I think that it having Flash complements the tempo strategy very nicely, and it is a nice evasive body to enable Ninjutsu. Its ETB draw a card acts like a pseudo NotDH effect, and can be repeated when you Ninjutsu it.
Of course, the downside is that it's UG, meaning that the manabase has to stretch a lot to accommodate it. The deathtouch clause will likely end up as flavour text but if it ever does get enabled, it could help against aggro by being able to trade resources favourably by surprise-blocking an attacker and killing it, while you're up a card from its ETB. I'm pretty sure that the deckbuilding cost of jamming in snow lands is too high for this, though.
Or red could return a random card from your graveyard. To make it not so broken, maybe it can only be activated if there are four or more cards in your graveyard.
Using Experimental Frenzy would require careful deckbuilding because you won't be able to include so many cantrips since Frenzy won't let you use the cards that you draw since you can't play cards from your hand.. In fact, when you get back the spells from Feather's ability, they go back to your hand, and Frenzy would stop you from using them again.
That Torchling idea is really cool! A bit mana-intensive but it's certainly stylish. I'd rather use Torchling than Grip of Chaos since it isn't random.
One interaction I find quite crazy with this new card is with Become Immense. Turn 3, make this guy Become Immense by delving some fetchlands or other random cards in your graveyard, when it swings, it can re-cast Become Immense because of its already pumped, hit for 13 damage.
This card, and all the other cards recently printed since Amonkhet that have the "power-matters" theme makes me think if it's possible to add a "infect-style" archetype in cube. Especially since it seems that this is the type of design that R&D keeps making new ones for, such an archetype can only get better and better.
Pushing a "pump-spells matter" archetype could work to replace some removal spells in a traditional cube, since most pump spells in limited work pretty much like removal where a player attacks into smaller creatures, but the pump spell makes the block profitable for them. I admit this would lower the overall power level of the cube and compared to traditional removal spells, pump spells fall for two-for-ones more easily if the targetted creature gets removed in response, but it would be closer to a risk-and-reward situation if the whole deck is drafted to take advantage of it. Examples of other cards in such a deck that would fit this archetype would be Electrostatic Pummeler and cards with Heroic.
Anyone have any experience with adding such an archetype in your cube?
Hello just dropping by to chime in some questions and some tech suggestions. To preface, I'd like to mention that I haven't played modern in a while but have been following the latest developments recently and got interested in this deck, hence have watched some people play it on Youtube.
1. Why do people play Bounding Krasis over Deceiver Exarch? In my mind, Deceiver Exarch has various advantages:
- Easier mana cost
- Can tap any permanent, so you can do tempo plays like tapping down lands to slow down the opponent, or tap down vital artifacts
- Has 4 toughness, hence has better survivability, particularly against bolt
The main advantage I can see for Bounding Krasis is that it has 3-power, but if we're aiming for infinite tokens with Kiki, the amount of power doesn't matter as long as it's more than zero. If we're looking at the beatdown backup plan I guess the 3 power helps to race, but the deck is already inherently capable of racing with creatures to beatdown by having lots of value creatures. The last case I can think of where the 3 power is an advantage is that it trades better, but even then Exarch having 4 toughness bounces better during combat, meaning that it survives better to get podded.
EDIT: I just realized why. Woodland Bellower can only tutor for green creatures. Still, with this in mind, how do you all think the advantages of Exarch weigh against Krasis for these reasons?
2. On the topic of whether to play Rhythm of the Wild or not, I've seen various players face a situation where if Vannifar had haste, they'd be able to immediately close out the game. In many of such cases, they also have a Chord of Calling in hand. One tech I'd be interested in trying is to cut one Rhythm for a Torch Courier, so that you can achieve the play pattern where you chord for X=1 on T3 for the Courier and T4 cast Vannifar and give her haste. This achieves the same game-winning haste-granting effect as Rhythm except for the uncounterability clause, but at least it's harder for your opponent to telegraph whether they will die to a Vannifar next turn or not, since you Chord in the Courier at their end step. What do you guys think?
That would be great! But like I mentioned, as much as I loved blinking Huntmaster back in standard, I'm not necessarily looking to do that in modern again. Right now, the idea of making a blink-themed deck around Huntmaster sounds a bit too cute as I imagine many things can go wrong (kill in response to blink for example). Still, a decklist might change my mind!
How are you going to come up with a Grixis list with Huntmaster? Do you mean to splash green just for Huntmasters?
Yes, I know Bloodbraid Elf is the RG 4-drop in the format. So why Huntmaster? No real reason, really. I just love the card. And also because I have a playset just sitting in my binder. I started Magic during Avacyn Restored standard and loved blinking Huntmaster and Thragtusk using Restoration Angel. But I'm not necessarily looking to build that style of deck again in modern. If I were to give a real reason, Huntmaster's just such a super-value card, giving life gain against aggro, extra bodies against control, and being able to take over the game all on its own by constantly flipping.
So as a thought exercise, I wanted to figure out what would be the best way to build a deck centered around Huntmaster. So far, what I think I need to do is to maximize Huntmaster's value by ensuring that it can constantly flip. This lends itself to a playstyle pattern of tapping out for Huntmaster on T4 (or earlier with ramp), untap with it, passing the turn to let it flip on opponent's upkeep, then playing two instants during opponent's turn so that it flips back during my upkeep. The best colours for this would be RUG where I can use U's instants during my opponent's turn to achieve this. Speaking of instants, other great things in modern with flash would be Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique. This would lend itself to a tempo-midrange kind of build with some burn. And since Huntmaster fills up the 4-drop slot, there wouldn't be space for BBEs, so this allows space to fit some countermagic which has counter-synergy with BBE.
Of course, this is all theory-crafting so far as I haven't had time recently to play any modern so I don't have the most realistic grasp on the current meta. What do you guys think, and if you have any other ideas?
I actually thought the closest comparison should be made with Gaea's Revenge. Although GR is 7 mana, it has haste so it would attack on the same turn as CT when cast on-curve. The keywords are quite similar too. GR is also uncounterable and not being targettable by nongreen stuff basically is hexproof against removal, barring borderline cases like Song of the Dryads and Beast Within.
The only thing GR doesn't have is trample, which if you think about it would lead to more interesting games. With trample, it makes boardstates less interesting because your chump-blocks have less value since they won't prevent much damage, so there's little consideration to be made when deciding to attack with CT, and also deciding whether to block it. Without trample, at least the defending player has a fighting chance by finding ways to generate blockers. Sure, when it comes to big buffy creatures like these it's important to have that inevitability of it killing your opponent swiftly in a few hits, but green beefy dorks don't necessarily need that since they're not normally used as control finishers that need to end the game quickly after resolving; their purpose is to be large threats that come out several turns early. Just my 2 cents on why Gaea's Revenge would be more favoured over Carnage Tyrant.
I was thinking of adding an artifacts archetype to my unpowered 480 cube. The first thing that usually comes to people's minds when I mention that is Tinker. And once someone mentions Tinker, usually Daretti, Scrap Savant and Goblin Welder come in tied at second place. Daretti's a planeswalker, so there'll always be assured value there so it's an easy include. But for Goblin Welder, sure, it's a powerful effect stapled onto a body, but it's a very fragile body at that and if it dies before it does its thing, and if your deck is fully designed to do that thing (cheating artifacts), you've lost one of your combo pieces. At this point I'd also like to clarify that I have absolutely no experience in playing with/against Goblin Welder, so I could be very wrong in my evaluation!
So with all that said, I felt like leaning towards Trash for Treasure instead as it gets value right away once it resolves. It also has some pros against Goblin Welder where you can't counter it by removing the artifact on the battlefield first. I think the main advantage of Goblin Welder is that it can keep recurring value, but in a 1-on-1 environment like cube, I feel like that is just icing on the cake where you don't need to keep reanimating your fatty to get so much value to kill your one opponent compared to a multiplayer environment like EDH where you need to keep up with everyone else who's doing broken things.
So include either, or cut something else and include both? What about in a 360 environment?
When Minotaur Explorer enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you discard a card at random.
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Was searching for red two-drops with power more than 2 and I stumbled upon this. Is the random discard too much of a drawback even for the 3/3 body on turn two?
Of course, the downside is that it's UG, meaning that the manabase has to stretch a lot to accommodate it. The deathtouch clause will likely end up as flavour text but if it ever does get enabled, it could help against aggro by being able to trade resources favourably by surprise-blocking an attacker and killing it, while you're up a card from its ETB. I'm pretty sure that the deckbuilding cost of jamming in snow lands is too high for this, though.
That Torchling idea is really cool! A bit mana-intensive but it's certainly stylish. I'd rather use Torchling than Grip of Chaos since it isn't random.
This card, and all the other cards recently printed since Amonkhet that have the "power-matters" theme makes me think if it's possible to add a "infect-style" archetype in cube. Especially since it seems that this is the type of design that R&D keeps making new ones for, such an archetype can only get better and better.
Pushing a "pump-spells matter" archetype could work to replace some removal spells in a traditional cube, since most pump spells in limited work pretty much like removal where a player attacks into smaller creatures, but the pump spell makes the block profitable for them. I admit this would lower the overall power level of the cube and compared to traditional removal spells, pump spells fall for two-for-ones more easily if the targetted creature gets removed in response, but it would be closer to a risk-and-reward situation if the whole deck is drafted to take advantage of it. Examples of other cards in such a deck that would fit this archetype would be Electrostatic Pummeler and cards with Heroic.
Anyone have any experience with adding such an archetype in your cube?
1. Why do people play Bounding Krasis over Deceiver Exarch? In my mind, Deceiver Exarch has various advantages:
- Easier mana cost
- Can tap any permanent, so you can do tempo plays like tapping down lands to slow down the opponent, or tap down vital artifacts
- Has 4 toughness, hence has better survivability, particularly against bolt
The main advantage I can see for Bounding Krasis is that it has 3-power, but if we're aiming for infinite tokens with Kiki, the amount of power doesn't matter as long as it's more than zero. If we're looking at the beatdown backup plan I guess the 3 power helps to race, but the deck is already inherently capable of racing with creatures to beatdown by having lots of value creatures. The last case I can think of where the 3 power is an advantage is that it trades better, but even then Exarch having 4 toughness bounces better during combat, meaning that it survives better to get podded.
EDIT: I just realized why. Woodland Bellower can only tutor for green creatures. Still, with this in mind, how do you all think the advantages of Exarch weigh against Krasis for these reasons?
2. On the topic of whether to play Rhythm of the Wild or not, I've seen various players face a situation where if Vannifar had haste, they'd be able to immediately close out the game. In many of such cases, they also have a Chord of Calling in hand. One tech I'd be interested in trying is to cut one Rhythm for a Torch Courier, so that you can achieve the play pattern where you chord for X=1 on T3 for the Courier and T4 cast Vannifar and give her haste. This achieves the same game-winning haste-granting effect as Rhythm except for the uncounterability clause, but at least it's harder for your opponent to telegraph whether they will die to a Vannifar next turn or not, since you Chord in the Courier at their end step. What do you guys think?
How are you going to come up with a Grixis list with Huntmaster? Do you mean to splash green just for Huntmasters?
Yes, I know Bloodbraid Elf is the RG 4-drop in the format. So why Huntmaster? No real reason, really. I just love the card. And also because I have a playset just sitting in my binder. I started Magic during Avacyn Restored standard and loved blinking Huntmaster and Thragtusk using Restoration Angel. But I'm not necessarily looking to build that style of deck again in modern. If I were to give a real reason, Huntmaster's just such a super-value card, giving life gain against aggro, extra bodies against control, and being able to take over the game all on its own by constantly flipping.
So as a thought exercise, I wanted to figure out what would be the best way to build a deck centered around Huntmaster. So far, what I think I need to do is to maximize Huntmaster's value by ensuring that it can constantly flip. This lends itself to a playstyle pattern of tapping out for Huntmaster on T4 (or earlier with ramp), untap with it, passing the turn to let it flip on opponent's upkeep, then playing two instants during opponent's turn so that it flips back during my upkeep. The best colours for this would be RUG where I can use U's instants during my opponent's turn to achieve this. Speaking of instants, other great things in modern with flash would be Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique. This would lend itself to a tempo-midrange kind of build with some burn. And since Huntmaster fills up the 4-drop slot, there wouldn't be space for BBEs, so this allows space to fit some countermagic which has counter-synergy with BBE.
Of course, this is all theory-crafting so far as I haven't had time recently to play any modern so I don't have the most realistic grasp on the current meta. What do you guys think, and if you have any other ideas?
The only thing GR doesn't have is trample, which if you think about it would lead to more interesting games. With trample, it makes boardstates less interesting because your chump-blocks have less value since they won't prevent much damage, so there's little consideration to be made when deciding to attack with CT, and also deciding whether to block it. Without trample, at least the defending player has a fighting chance by finding ways to generate blockers. Sure, when it comes to big buffy creatures like these it's important to have that inevitability of it killing your opponent swiftly in a few hits, but green beefy dorks don't necessarily need that since they're not normally used as control finishers that need to end the game quickly after resolving; their purpose is to be large threats that come out several turns early. Just my 2 cents on why Gaea's Revenge would be more favoured over Carnage Tyrant.
I was thinking of adding an artifacts archetype to my unpowered 480 cube. The first thing that usually comes to people's minds when I mention that is Tinker. And once someone mentions Tinker, usually Daretti, Scrap Savant and Goblin Welder come in tied at second place. Daretti's a planeswalker, so there'll always be assured value there so it's an easy include. But for Goblin Welder, sure, it's a powerful effect stapled onto a body, but it's a very fragile body at that and if it dies before it does its thing, and if your deck is fully designed to do that thing (cheating artifacts), you've lost one of your combo pieces. At this point I'd also like to clarify that I have absolutely no experience in playing with/against Goblin Welder, so I could be very wrong in my evaluation!
So with all that said, I felt like leaning towards Trash for Treasure instead as it gets value right away once it resolves. It also has some pros against Goblin Welder where you can't counter it by removing the artifact on the battlefield first. I think the main advantage of Goblin Welder is that it can keep recurring value, but in a 1-on-1 environment like cube, I feel like that is just icing on the cake where you don't need to keep reanimating your fatty to get so much value to kill your one opponent compared to a multiplayer environment like EDH where you need to keep up with everyone else who's doing broken things.
So include either, or cut something else and include both? What about in a 360 environment?
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1R
Creature — Minotaur Scout
When Minotaur Explorer enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you discard a card at random.
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Was searching for red two-drops with power more than 2 and I stumbled upon this. Is the random discard too much of a drawback even for the 3/3 body on turn two?