Disciple of Bolas makes sense to add. Everybody got chunked by Hidetsugu or you've taken a beating and need to get a few more lives and cards to get you out of this situation. I also like the Bolas because it goes so well with the Myojin - you pop their counters to devastate your opponents; afterwards, they're just generic 5/2 or 7/4 which is a respectable amount of cards. Plus they can never betray you with their 'cast from hand' clause; every single Bribery or Desertion doesn't work, aside from Take Possession which you should've popped their token by then.
Yeah, think I'll dump Maga for DoB. The Myojins have been considered (I do have a copy of the black one just sitting around), but I'd have to cut something for it. I'm pretty attached to most fatties, so maybe cut All is Dust? It's a good card, but it's also the only 6+ CMC card in the deck that doesn't benefit from Rakdos's ability.
It's Mark Rosewater's fault that Maga got axed. He was telling a story in one of his articles, over 10 years ago so good luck trying to find it in his backlog, about how he was always winning the Future Future Leagues (how Wizards tests how sets will interact with each other). He had this really aggressive G/R deck that won, undefeated. One of the lead developers then pointed out to him that what he thought was a 2/2 Bear was actually a 2/2 with Kicker that made it a 5/5. Just having that knowledge suddenly made him begin to lose. Instead of being as aggressive as possible, he tried to always kick it to 5/5 and that caused game losses. I've had the same experience with Maga and I realized instead of trying to get the biggest blast to a player's face, I should get another creature in that slot instead. After all, you've committed a whole bunch of cards by the look of things to make your Maga bigger - imagine instead if you put those cards towards more reliably going off; which is why I asked how often do you combo off.
Leechridden Swamp is solid. I don't run that many ETBT Lands but I figure it's a way to cheaply get Rakdos back and better than running Burn which doesn't come back. If I have a solid board without a hand, probably due to my Sire of Insanity, it's a way to burn down the rest of the players. Yes, Lantern-Lit Graveyard is a POS but I need BBRR on Turn 4 and that's a way to confirm it. Maybe it'll go away once I get more nonbasics, but those are $5+ each and I'm fine with this 15 cent land in the meantime.
It's the other way around for me. I didn't add Hidetsugu/Tree for the sake of a bigger Maga; I added Maga because it looked like he played well with those two. H+T are there to bring people down within kill range, while also potentially giving me free Eldrazi. Maga, though, is currently on the knife edge of getting the axe (if I may horribly mix metaphors), maybe in favor of Disciple of Bolas. What other sort of replacement might work best? Draw/Tutor, stax, combo?
On the manabase side, I think I can dump Reliquary Tower. Infinite hand size isn't as much of a priority as in some of my other decks.
I doubt Sin Prodder would be a great enabler. Retreat to Hagra would be harder for some decks to deal with, isn't conditional, and works great if you ever add fetch lands.
For card draw, I found Deal Broker to be usable since it's blue-loot, and Disciple of Bolas is great to Sneak Attack in to save a creature from an exile effect.
Honestly, Retreat to Hagra was in an older build and wasn't cutting it reliability-wise. Sin Prodder may not be my favorite enabler, but between Menace and its other ability, it tends to do its job somehow. Disciple of Bolas and Soul of New Phyrexia are two other cards sitting right on the edge. I'd like them around to help, but it's hard to know what to cut. I might be able to cut Hex Parasite for a Viashino Heretic, though. HP was added when there was a lot of Atraxa running around, and I've seen a lot less of her locally.
The priests seem interesting, but only if I can get them out with Curio. Otherwise I dunno what use they'd be in the deck aside from as chump blockers.
If Nullstone Gargoyle isn't working out for you, you're not running enough disruption/hate. Almost every single game I've resoled a Gargoyle has been a win for me.
OP runs 36 lands which means he's not that likely to keep dropping lands for Retreat to Hagra; however, I do agree that it's a possible addition but not by subtracting an Enabler. Unfortunately, his list looks pretty damned tight so I'm not sure what he could cut. The Devil does its job if it gets one Menace punch in, which is quite easy on your T4 as not too many players have 2 creatures they're willing to expend. Afterwards, it's just additional free damage for Rakdos to abuse if they mill or free cards. At the very worst, the Devil mills Lands off of the top but if he wasn't there, you'd be drawing that instead of Gas.
@ OP: Cool Combo Rakdos. I see you're committed to it because you know that Impact Tremors and Bontu's Monument are part of the combo, not Enabling, which I see sometimes in peoples' list and that makes me scratch my head.
I think you could cut Manaforge Cinder if you made your mana base more consistent; less ETB lands. Or is the job of the Cinder to convert Cabal Coffers into Red? My manabase isn't the most expensive and I've yet to have a problem; my Rakdos decklist here if you want to take a look at my manabase.
How often do you Combo Off vs win by beating face?
Hey, it's you! You're the one who inspired some of the changes to this build, after you linked me to your primer from Reddit. Nullstone Gargoyle, in particular, was a card I hadn't ever considered for any possible deck (save for Ruric Thar).
My past victories have definitely been heavily weighted towards face-smashing rather than combo. Combo has, however, helped me pull off a few wins, generally a bit earlier in the game than through aggression. Fastest combo win in an actual game was turn five, courtesy of an early tutor to fetch the statue. I’ve always liked having combo as a backup plan (comes from running combo Marath I guess), but if it turns out to be not worth the deckslots in the future I can dump Tremor/Monument/Curio/Oblivion Sower and free up some room.
My Manabase/mana production in general has always been something I'm not too good at assessing. I basically just took every dual land I had and put in most of them. The Cinder is there as insurance if I get unlucky with my lands. Looking at your mana base, Graven Cairns is a definite wishlist card, and I’m pretty sure I’ve got a Shadowblood Ridge lying around. Tainted Peak and Lantern-Lit Graveyard would be pretty cheap to acquire (though I’m fairly leery about that last one). How easy has Leechridden Swamp been to “turn on”? Having two black permanents seemed tough to do reliably in the last build of the deck, though the new build is a good bit heavier on black.
Also, I noticed you’re not too big on Maga. Any suggestions on replacements, or does he look like a better fit in my list because I’m running Hidetsugu/Tree of Perdition to help set up fatal Magaballs more easily?
I mean, EDH is THE +1/+1 counter format, especially in green. Ghave/Marath must run this for being a toolbox value play?
Ha ha hell no. My main moose Marath has better ways of killing things/adding counters to other things. 4-mana sorcery speed conditional removal doesn't cut it.
As to today's card, it only seems useful in mono-blue, and even then it's probably outclassed by other 6-drops. Pass.
Rakdos has been one of my pet decks for quite some time now. I recently have overhauled quite a bit of it, going a bit more into stax territory than the previous iterations. I haven’t had a chance to extensively test out this build yet, but initial results seem promising.
The Enablers section contains those cards meant to “turn on” Rakdos for a turn 4 landing. Notable among them are Lobber Crew (who can enable free 6-drop Eldrazi on turn 4), Nettle Drone (who can combo the table to death), Stronghold Rats (who helps deny resources in addition to enabling), and Cryptolith Fragment (ramp and enabler in one sexy package).
The heavy hitters is the section of the deck that’s changed the most from previous builds. I’m focusing mostly on beasties that can either keep Rakdos’s crazy train a-rollin’ (through card draw, tutoring, and reanimation), or strike at my enemy’s ability to fight back.
As for combo backup, you’ve got a couple options. There’s the simple brutal pairing of Tree of Perdition/Heartless Hidetsugu with Maga, Traitor to Mortals, which can quite easily knock an opponent out of the game while leaving a huge beater behind. There’s also some infinite combo potential.
1. The easiest one to pull off (which is doable as early as turn 4 with a god hand) involves having Rakdos out with one of Impact Tremors/Bontu’s Monument/Nettle Drone and dealing at least 4 damage to an opponent. Now you simply cast Ancestral Statue, target it with its own ETB, and continue to recast it until the rest of the table is dead.
2. You can substitute Ancestral Statue for Cloudstone Curio + 2 Eldrazi. Just do enough damage to make them free and loop Eldrazi until you win. If one of the two Eldrazi is Oblivion Sower, you won’t even need Tremors/Monument/Drone, as Sower will simply exile everyone else’s library.
Other Notable Cards: All is Dust: Expensive, but wiping the field of everything except my Eldrazi minions has worked well for me. Manaforge Cinder: Making sure I can cast Rakdos on schedule is important. This girl helps make sure I get there. Sneak Attack: If people keep Rakdos of the table, I can still make use of my big creatures with this. Chandra, Torch of Defiance: Versatility. Can enable Rakdos, ramp, remove annoyances, and her ultimate isn't too shabby either.
I still need a Food Chain/Phyrexian Altar, but my Marath deck contains most of the rest of these combos and it's a blast to play. It's just a big combo engine made of interchangeable parts.
Also, while not really part of an infinite combo, Xenagos, the Reveler is hilarious in the deck. I once got out Marath, Xenagos, and Ivy Lane Denizen while an enemy Norin player had a Pandemonium in play. That game ended shortly thereafter.
It was a wheel-based Niv-Mizzet deck, and while it worked fairly well, I remember tossing in a number of R/U cards I owned solely because they were R/U, and also being way too top-heavy. Dominus of Fealty is one card I ran that sprang to mind. I don't think I ever got to steal a single thing with it in any game.
Wasn't Emmy's issue that they were just too centralizing (similar to what happened with Prime Time)? Way too many games would just revolve around people cheating in/tutoring for/cloning/stealing Emrakul. At least, that's the scuttlebutt I remember hearing. I wasn't playing EDH at the time.
I used Control "F"ind because I'm lazy to read...
I'm surprised there's yet no mention of Quietus spike...
(I'm proud to be the one and only major ******** in this thread! Hahaha)
I wouldn't call it a major ******* card, honestly. As far as Deathtouch-granting equipment goes, it's quite outclassed by the Collar, the severed head, and the flail. As for the second ability, since it only triggers on combat damage, it's no more degenerate with Marath than with most other creatures.
Besides, everyone knows the best way to be a ******* with Quietus Spike is to run it with Wound Reflection.
SoFaF, Darksteel Plate, and Grafted Exoskeleton are tempting, but I'm at that stage where deck space is at a premium. Plus, my copies of the first two are busy in other decks.
Yeah, think I'll dump Maga for DoB. The Myojins have been considered (I do have a copy of the black one just sitting around), but I'd have to cut something for it. I'm pretty attached to most fatties, so maybe cut All is Dust? It's a good card, but it's also the only 6+ CMC card in the deck that doesn't benefit from Rakdos's ability.
It's the other way around for me. I didn't add Hidetsugu/Tree for the sake of a bigger Maga; I added Maga because it looked like he played well with those two. H+T are there to bring people down within kill range, while also potentially giving me free Eldrazi. Maga, though, is currently on the knife edge of getting the axe (if I may horribly mix metaphors), maybe in favor of Disciple of Bolas. What other sort of replacement might work best? Draw/Tutor, stax, combo?
On the manabase side, I think I can dump Reliquary Tower. Infinite hand size isn't as much of a priority as in some of my other decks.
Honestly, Retreat to Hagra was in an older build and wasn't cutting it reliability-wise. Sin Prodder may not be my favorite enabler, but between Menace and its other ability, it tends to do its job somehow. Disciple of Bolas and Soul of New Phyrexia are two other cards sitting right on the edge. I'd like them around to help, but it's hard to know what to cut. I might be able to cut Hex Parasite for a Viashino Heretic, though. HP was added when there was a lot of Atraxa running around, and I've seen a lot less of her locally.
The priests seem interesting, but only if I can get them out with Curio. Otherwise I dunno what use they'd be in the deck aside from as chump blockers.
Hey, it's you! You're the one who inspired some of the changes to this build, after you linked me to your primer from Reddit. Nullstone Gargoyle, in particular, was a card I hadn't ever considered for any possible deck (save for Ruric Thar).
My past victories have definitely been heavily weighted towards face-smashing rather than combo. Combo has, however, helped me pull off a few wins, generally a bit earlier in the game than through aggression. Fastest combo win in an actual game was turn five, courtesy of an early tutor to fetch the statue. I’ve always liked having combo as a backup plan (comes from running combo Marath I guess), but if it turns out to be not worth the deckslots in the future I can dump Tremor/Monument/Curio/Oblivion Sower and free up some room.
My Manabase/mana production in general has always been something I'm not too good at assessing. I basically just took every dual land I had and put in most of them. The Cinder is there as insurance if I get unlucky with my lands. Looking at your mana base, Graven Cairns is a definite wishlist card, and I’m pretty sure I’ve got a Shadowblood Ridge lying around. Tainted Peak and Lantern-Lit Graveyard would be pretty cheap to acquire (though I’m fairly leery about that last one). How easy has Leechridden Swamp been to “turn on”? Having two black permanents seemed tough to do reliably in the last build of the deck, though the new build is a good bit heavier on black.
Also, I noticed you’re not too big on Maga. Any suggestions on replacements, or does he look like a better fit in my list because I’m running Hidetsugu/Tree of Perdition to help set up fatal Magaballs more easily?
Ha ha hell no. My main moose Marath has better ways of killing things/adding counters to other things. 4-mana sorcery speed conditional removal doesn't cut it.
As to today's card, it only seems useful in mono-blue, and even then it's probably outclassed by other 6-drops. Pass.
Rakdos has been one of my pet decks for quite some time now. I recently have overhauled quite a bit of it, going a bit more into stax territory than the previous iterations. I haven’t had a chance to extensively test out this build yet, but initial results seem promising.
4 Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Enablers
2 Thermo-Alchemist
3 Lobber Crew
3 Nettle Drone
3 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Sin Prodder
3 Stronghold Rats
2 Lim-Dûl's Hex
3 Cryptolith Fragment
Heavy Hitters
5 Archfiend of Depravity
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
6 Conduit of Ruin
6 Demon of Dark Schemes
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Oblivion Sower
6 Sire of Insanity
7 Knollspine Dragon
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
9 Artisan of Kozilek
9 Nullstone Gargoyle
9 Void Winnower
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
10 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
13 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
4 Tree of Perdition
4 Ancestral Statue
5 Heartless Hidetsugu
2 Impact Tremors
3 Bontu's Monument
3 Cloudstone Curio
Removal
1 Hex Parasite
3 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Terminate
3 Chaos Warp
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Damnation
7 All is Dust
Mana, Tutors, Card Advantage
1 Manaforge Cinder
4 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Talisman of Indulgence
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Darksteel Ingot
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
3 Necropotence
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Faithless Looting
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Darksteel Plate
3 Fervor
3 Price of Glory
4 Sneak Attack
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land
1 Command Tower
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Blood Crypt
1 Canyon Slough
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Foreboding Ruins
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Temple of Malice
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cavern of Souls
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Piranha Marsh
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
11 Swamp
8 Mountain
The Enablers section contains those cards meant to “turn on” Rakdos for a turn 4 landing. Notable among them are Lobber Crew (who can enable free 6-drop Eldrazi on turn 4), Nettle Drone (who can combo the table to death), Stronghold Rats (who helps deny resources in addition to enabling), and Cryptolith Fragment (ramp and enabler in one sexy package).
The heavy hitters is the section of the deck that’s changed the most from previous builds. I’m focusing mostly on beasties that can either keep Rakdos’s crazy train a-rollin’ (through card draw, tutoring, and reanimation), or strike at my enemy’s ability to fight back.
As for combo backup, you’ve got a couple options. There’s the simple brutal pairing of Tree of Perdition/Heartless Hidetsugu with Maga, Traitor to Mortals, which can quite easily knock an opponent out of the game while leaving a huge beater behind. There’s also some infinite combo potential.
1. The easiest one to pull off (which is doable as early as turn 4 with a god hand) involves having Rakdos out with one of Impact Tremors/Bontu’s Monument/Nettle Drone and dealing at least 4 damage to an opponent. Now you simply cast Ancestral Statue, target it with its own ETB, and continue to recast it until the rest of the table is dead.
2. You can substitute Ancestral Statue for Cloudstone Curio + 2 Eldrazi. Just do enough damage to make them free and loop Eldrazi until you win. If one of the two Eldrazi is Oblivion Sower, you won’t even need Tremors/Monument/Drone, as Sower will simply exile everyone else’s library.
Other Notable Cards:
All is Dust: Expensive, but wiping the field of everything except my Eldrazi minions has worked well for me.
Manaforge Cinder: Making sure I can cast Rakdos on schedule is important. This girl helps make sure I get there.
Sneak Attack: If people keep Rakdos of the table, I can still make use of my big creatures with this.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance: Versatility. Can enable Rakdos, ramp, remove annoyances, and her ultimate isn't too shabby either.
Also, while not really part of an infinite combo, Xenagos, the Reveler is hilarious in the deck. I once got out Marath, Xenagos, and Ivy Lane Denizen while an enemy Norin player had a Pandemonium in play. That game ended shortly thereafter.
Legendary Spider... probably BG
Legendary Werewolf in RG
I wouldn't call it a major ******* card, honestly. As far as Deathtouch-granting equipment goes, it's quite outclassed by the Collar, the severed head, and the flail. As for the second ability, since it only triggers on combat damage, it's no more degenerate with Marath than with most other creatures.
Besides, everyone knows the best way to be a ******* with Quietus Spike is to run it with Wound Reflection.
SoFaF, Darksteel Plate, and Grafted Exoskeleton are tempting, but I'm at that stage where deck space is at a premium. Plus, my copies of the first two are busy in other decks.