well, I'm clearly wrong then. I played extensively then and was going off memory. I certainly remember junk rites but can't recall ever seeing DRS.
I'd still dispute the "extremely potent" comment but that's more subjective and doesn't have anything to do with modern.
That's cuz you weren't wrong. I played that Standard heavily as well. The GP deck that won was not the "dominating" Junk Rites later. The Junk Rites that became dominating was the one that eventually became a reanimator/value deck with Resto Angel, Thragtusk, Angel of Serenity, Acidic Slime. I remember it got so bad people began using Acidic Slime to LD each other. DRS was in one of my sideboards as a GY hate card. If you look at Martin Jùza's sideboard in that winning GP deck, it's that sideboard that actually became the default best Junk Rites setup.
DRS in standard could not ramp properly. That's what kept it back from being Arbor Elf and Avacyn's Pilgrim. In Modern, it's the secret ramp card because of the fetches. You can even put it in a Grixis deck (like Grixis Delver) and it'll do great. The main problem with DRS in Modern however is it just flat out shuts down Snapcaster Mage and lets Black (or basically GBX decks) turn spells into 2dmg burn clocks. I don't think blue needs to be whipped any more.
My friend and I were going back and forth on the usefulness of "Thing in the Ice" and the conclusion was: Why run this instead of Goyf?
Your plan in a sense is the same. Play it Turn 2 and just do your normal game. Goyf can attack right away but it might be too small. Technically there is a small window for Goyf to be bolted as well. Ice can't attack at all (defender obviously). Ice has to wait for it to flip first but it comes out big as a 7/8.
Goyf is a better top deck. Ice is a terrible top deck.
Goyf can be chump blocked repeatedly. Ice can get a single use evacuation and hit for 7.
Both die to removal (Abrupt Decay, Terminate, etc).
Basically, both have their pros and cons.
I think the biggest factor will be:
1. Price. Yes in Modern you can't settle for the budget build but if Ice is as decent as it seems, people would rather break out 20 bucks for a playset than $500 for Goyf. We saw this effect with Eldrazi a bit. Cheap cards and still competitive.
2. Color. Staying in just blue is good. Yeah Goyf is the secret blue card in Legacy but trying to stretch your manabase 3 colors can be tough.
I want this card to succeed. It just seems good but you kinda get a weird feeling with all this hype. It seems "too obvious".
As someone mentioned on the other page, the Eldrazi deck can sub in a lot of variety. UR, UB, etc. It's the same core that wins though (with fast mana being the key).
To me, that feels similar to how they tried to explain Grixis Twin, RUG Twin, UR Twin was all the same thing.
Chalice is an EASY card for WOTC to ban if it becomes a thing to suppress aggro. Cheating it in Turn 1 with fast mana...that's pretty much how it got the restricted target in Vintage.
If the lands are real, they're worse than everyone else on this thread says they are. With their "ETB tapped unless you control at least 2 basic lands" rider, that means that they ETB tapped until Turn 3 at the earliest (unless you Summer Bloom these duals out on Turn 2 or something). And ETB'ing tapped on Turns 1-2 sucks loads in Modern and up. I've tried Murmuring Bosk in decks where Doran is the only Treefolk before--Bosk is rather meh when it's stuck in my opening hand without Treefolk, and I'm often forced to fetch shocks instead in early turns whenever I don't have Treefolk in hand. Bosk is worth the opportunity cost in decks with more than just 4 Treefolk in them, but I've ditched it from every deck with 4 Treefolk or less.
They'll be loads better in Standard, the Place Stuck Playing Dismal Backwater. But I don't think that any 3+-colour deck in Modern can support them (they play 5-6 basics at best, and often play 2-3 basics). I can't curve out with Bolt into Goyf into Liliana of the Veil by fetching basics and/or these duals for the first 2 turns.
(Aw, I was and am betting on the duals having abilities like "XAB, tap, sac this: Do something awesome"...)
Well that sucks for Jund, which they'll just continue to feel bad against some burn decks but then you have something like Twin or Grixis Control. Those decks can stop bolting themselves T3 and T4 while still casting Cryptics and shore up some gainst burn and aggressive decks.
Again, sideboard Hallowed Moonlight is wrong. Play it main deck or don't play it at all.
How does this make any sense? It is just a terrible cantrip against most decks. It is purely a sideboard card.
It's a metacall card in the same way as Shadow of Doubt. Against the fair decks, it is just a cruddy cantrip card.
I think it's best in a 1-of flex spot in the main as well. That's your one chance to do a "got em" victory.
The cards are really strong for Standard play and pretty much just that.
There are a lot of "we tried to fix it" cards here, you see that renown Stoneforge or renown BoP.
Of course, they did throw older formats some cards to tinker with like Days Undoing or Goblin Piledriver.
This was like the perfect R/G Tron metagame. GerryT and the Jund players trying to stage a lil comeback only to get slammed by the the quiet boogeyman deck.
Prices caved heavily when the set went live today. Just imagine after a week (after the GPs, the FNMs, etc) when stores buy and gather all the singles, it's gonna sink even more.
I remember buying Cryptics at 15 and Cliques at 35ish during MMA13, so I'm using that as a gauge to see when the "bottom" is happening.
With GP Chiba sold out, and 5940 players registered for GP Vegas, with 16 days to go, Modern Masters 2015 has to be considered a smmaaaaaashing success.
As for what's not included? Their reports will filter in what the masses are demanding. As many have mentioned, Path is July FNM giveaway. Even if you don't play standard, pop in and trade for them. Offering cash will work even better.
Serum will likely be August or September FNM giveaway. They can't spoil all the reprints early, or they'll suffer a loss of sales. I'm sure they have a list of the top 100 or 200 desired reprints, in all rarities. Each set, post some up, add new ones to the list.
And remember, above all else, they are a money making business, and one of the money formulas is never, ever giving the masses everything they want.
You can't consider the set as a massive success just because it a Grand Prix sells out before the set is spoiled and people can see that it isn't great.
Even if the set isn't favored, you still want people to draft/buy boxes. Someone has to open their wallets initially so the singles can flow. A giant 3-way draft at once should do it.
That's cuz you weren't wrong. I played that Standard heavily as well. The GP deck that won was not the "dominating" Junk Rites later. The Junk Rites that became dominating was the one that eventually became a reanimator/value deck with Resto Angel, Thragtusk, Angel of Serenity, Acidic Slime. I remember it got so bad people began using Acidic Slime to LD each other. DRS was in one of my sideboards as a GY hate card. If you look at Martin Jùza's sideboard in that winning GP deck, it's that sideboard that actually became the default best Junk Rites setup.
DRS in standard could not ramp properly. That's what kept it back from being Arbor Elf and Avacyn's Pilgrim. In Modern, it's the secret ramp card because of the fetches. You can even put it in a Grixis deck (like Grixis Delver) and it'll do great. The main problem with DRS in Modern however is it just flat out shuts down Snapcaster Mage and lets Black (or basically GBX decks) turn spells into 2dmg burn clocks. I don't think blue needs to be whipped any more.
Your plan in a sense is the same. Play it Turn 2 and just do your normal game. Goyf can attack right away but it might be too small. Technically there is a small window for Goyf to be bolted as well. Ice can't attack at all (defender obviously). Ice has to wait for it to flip first but it comes out big as a 7/8.
Goyf is a better top deck. Ice is a terrible top deck.
Goyf can be chump blocked repeatedly. Ice can get a single use evacuation and hit for 7.
Both die to removal (Abrupt Decay, Terminate, etc).
Basically, both have their pros and cons.
I think the biggest factor will be:
1. Price. Yes in Modern you can't settle for the budget build but if Ice is as decent as it seems, people would rather break out 20 bucks for a playset than $500 for Goyf. We saw this effect with Eldrazi a bit. Cheap cards and still competitive.
2. Color. Staying in just blue is good. Yeah Goyf is the secret blue card in Legacy but trying to stretch your manabase 3 colors can be tough.
I want this card to succeed. It just seems good but you kinda get a weird feeling with all this hype. It seems "too obvious".
WHAT? What happened to the Lanterns and Elves?
To me, that feels similar to how they tried to explain Grixis Twin, RUG Twin, UR Twin was all the same thing.
Well that sucks for Jund, which they'll just continue to feel bad against some burn decks but then you have something like Twin or Grixis Control. Those decks can stop bolting themselves T3 and T4 while still casting Cryptics and shore up some gainst burn and aggressive decks.
It's a metacall card in the same way as Shadow of Doubt. Against the fair decks, it is just a cruddy cantrip card.
I think it's best in a 1-of flex spot in the main as well. That's your one chance to do a "got em" victory.
There are a lot of "we tried to fix it" cards here, you see that renown Stoneforge or renown BoP.
Of course, they did throw older formats some cards to tinker with like Days Undoing or Goblin Piledriver.
Maro's recent comment pretty much sums it up:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/122895101723/mark-im-worried-there-will-never-be-a-powerful
I remember buying Cryptics at 15 and Cliques at 35ish during MMA13, so I'm using that as a gauge to see when the "bottom" is happening.
Even if the set isn't favored, you still want people to draft/buy boxes. Someone has to open their wallets initially so the singles can flow. A giant 3-way draft at once should do it.