MTG Salvation

Just wanted to note another benefit to Read the Bones and in the process respond to everyone comparing it to Underworld Connections:

Read the Bones is easily splashable at 2B instead of 1BB. While I understand that many of you are reading Read the Bones with mono-black control or B/x control in mind, I think it's important to note that in something like a Grixis Control or Esper shell, Read the Bones' less black-intensive mana cost will be relevant.

Quote from Zealot of Freya

What about quicken as a cantrip with these lists? It even has a few uses in Thoughtseize, Rakdos' Return, dreadbore, and read the bones.

I think the Grixis lists are just too crammed full of good stuff that I'd rather not have Quicken. If I had space, there are a ton more answers I could stuff in there: more removal, more counter, or more walkers. I'm just not sure quicken belongs in this deck.

I really like some of the proposed builds. I guess I'm looking at something a bit less red-centric, something like:



Adding red like I see many of you doing just doesn't do much for me. Magma Jet is great, but I don't see it doing anything that my removal suite cannot. Anger of the Gods is going to take testing for me to see if it's worth going deeper in red just for that card, and I can keep in the board for games 2 and 3.

With the exception of Dreadbore, I only need red land on turn 4+ for Steam Augury (I'm on the fence with this card right now, haven't tested it yet) and Rakdos's Return, so it keeps red at a splash for me.

Comments or suggestions about my deck? Thanks in advance.

Quote from Kamahl, the Fallen

I would not say cutting him is out of the question. I would think long and hard about what to cut him for. Counter or removal seems like the default, but I like the idea of having that other finisher outside of walkers and Rakdos's Return.

What Grixis has going for it is that Walkers, Return and Throughtseize can just tear into other control decks with a fair amount of ease.

It lacks the draw to continually answer things like Xenagos or things that slip by with a general consistency and that is where the hang up of whether walkers are the way to go or not. For me anyways.

I use Haunted Plate Mail as a cheaper, more mana-friendly finisher. Just an idea.

Quote from Franck438

Lifebane Zombie is great, don't get me wrong, but it isn't necessary in a control shell, even out of the sideboard. It's more for midrange/aggro builds trying to win with damage. Don't get me wrong, he can do some work, but there are better options for control. Hero's Downfall is another great card, but we have access to Dreadbore. Which is much better on our mana base, allowing us to only need to splash for black.

It's going to hurt not being able to consistently thoughtseize on turn 1, but we can afford to wait a few turns I think.

For my build, merely splashing black is going to be a problem. My thoughtseizes/duress won't go off first turn consistently, my removal suite might get stuck in my hand (doomblade, devour flesh, ultimate price, hero's downfall mixture), once theros hits i will need to consistently cast Read the Bones for early CA, and using dreadbore as a sorcery takes away my mana for counters. I definitely feel like red, aside from Anger of the Gods, should be the splashed color.

Quote from jxx

We still need to see if we get a cheap draw spell in theros.

Read the Bones is going to be fantastic.

My issue is the same that's been brought up - four cards that I very much want to use, but are double color costed: Hero's Downfall, Anger of the Gods, and Dissolve, and in my board, Lifebane Zombie.

Until Anger of the Gods was spoiled, my plan was to cut back on red until it's just a splash for Rakdos Return; now, I'm torn.

If I thin out red and ignore Anger of the Gods, I'm wondering if throwing in 4 Omen Speaker will be enough to keep aggro at bay. This would allow me to thin out my red mana base dedication, thereby weakening Burning Earth against me. Thoughts?

I'm looking at similar problem with my upcoming grixis control post-rotation. So far, a few things to think about to address your problems are as follows:

1) Thoughtseize. Though also making you lose life, this will be a great way to deal with enchantments - and anything else - that a new meta might throw against us. It's also a one-drop, which as you noted is spare in your deck.

2) Upcoming new card Read the Bones instead of Underworld Connections. It's card draw for life for 3, but it also is scry 2, which will help you dig for answers you need.

3) I've been playtesting ratchet bomb as a sweeper to do a bad impression of mutilate. It's mediocre, but without other options, it might have to do for now.

4) Since you will care about black devotion and I'm suggesting you ditch Underworld Connections, you might also consider at mainboarding at least 2 Lifebane Zombie. Great 3-drop threat, gives you 2 towards devotion, and it will stall out some of our aggro problems.

5) 12 red sources *might* be ok, but are you running mortars?

6) Most importantly, I have yet to figure out the lifeloss problem. Shocklands, Thoughtseize, and our card draw will all be pinging us. Hopefully theros has a decent 2 or 3 CMC lifegain option for us.

Hope this helps.

Quote from Ulquiorra9000

Hi. I also play Grixis control and except for my dual lands, it's entirely post-rotation. Right now I replaced two Forbidden Alchemy for a pair of Inspiration. It's 4cc, I know, but it's an instant and nets you two cards. Think Twice is better, yes, but rotation can't be helped. Also... it's a bit of a risky plan, but Izzet cards like Mercurial Chemister and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius get you a lot of extra cards as long as they stay on the field. In my experience those two creatures are usually worth playing in the mid-to-late game.

If you don't like those suggestions, I guess we'll have to wait and see the rest of the Theros set. I'm also crossing my fingers for more Grixis goodies!

PS. I realized that Mercurial Chemister might get even better post-rotation. Searing Spear and Victim of Night will rotate out, and Abrupt Decay and Ultimate Price can't hurt him. I guess that leaves Doom Blade, Mizzium Mortars, Warleader's Helix and Putrefy.

Inspiration - not terrible! Can't believe I missed it. Thanks!

The main thing that comes to mind at that low a CMC is Divination, which is sorcery speed. At 4CMC, Grixis can use Jace, AoT to gain some card advantage back. And at 6CMC the deck has Opportunity to do a Sphinx's Revelation impression.

Omenspeaker might not be the worst thing if you're worried about life loss. It's 1/3 body is relevant against aggro and it can fix your draws enought that you reliably hit your land drops or play relevant spells.

Yes, I'd looked at Divination, my 3cc is so crowded right now for a non-instant speed spell, I'm not sure if I can do it. I do have a singleton Opportunity. And great call on Omenspeaker! Unfortunately I'm seeing how Haunted Plate Mail works as a finisher, and they wouldn't play well together, but now that I'm thinking about it, it makes Devour Flesh usable on my own creatures for life gain in a pinch and allows me to activate my Haunted Plate Mail. Might make Devour Flesh a 4-of, in that case...

Izzet Charm is pretty solid and very versatile. You can either kill a dude, stop opposing backbreaking spells in the mirror or dig through your deck. Its also one of the easy ways of stopping burning earth.

Yup, I do indeed like Izzet Charm in the deck, but it's just not fulfilling the role I'm looking for right now.


New idea, has anyone tried the new Chandra as CA? Her +0 reads "exile the top card of your library. You may play it this turn". It's 4cc, it can be versatile as late game finisher or mid game CA, but as a control shell my lack of board presence makes her vulnerable. And she's deep in red for her casting cost.

I am considering playing Grixis control post-rotation, and I had some concerns regarding card advantage. I wanted to post this in the primer for that deck in the "established" section, but I do not have access.

My question is this: what are some good ways to gain card advantage in Grixis post-rotation? I saw the Theros spoiled black common Read the Bones (scry 2, draw 2, lose 2 life). My issue with that is we will already have so many other ways to kill ourselves (Shocklands, Thoughtseize come to mind) and we are losing a great source of lifegain in Vampire Nighthawk.

Is there another 2 or 3cc card that will give us solid card advantage without a loss of life? Preferably at instant speed? And if we get something like that, do you think that Grixis control might be viable post-rotation?

Thanks in advance.

Quote from Sasky

I played him and I think the main problem is that his colors are all wrong. You need to play cheap removal because you are a midrange deck, and running Bant colors gives you access to only expensive and clunky removal. On the other hand, you can run RUG so you have access to burn, but that restricts your access to powerful 3-drops like Smiter, Centaur Healer, and Fiend Hunter. He just doesn't have a good home. Also, he's pretty much embarrassed by collective blessing.

Simic Charm, Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Rapid Hybridization, Feeling of Dread are all decent cheap removal for bant.