Ive played both Slivers and Allies and the main difference between them is that Slivers has the tools to go more toolbox style combined with the raw power and aggresiveness of their lords. Allies lack this and I find it hard to justify adding non-allies and raise the curve above 3CC. Atm the only direction we can go with allies, and thats imo, would be Boros Allies with added lightning bolts, boros charms etc and possibly drop co co alltogether. Also adding black could open up for some intresting routes with say Agadeem Occultist, Bala Ged Thief, Kalastria Healer, Zulaport Cutthroat and possibly combined with Return to the ranks kind of effects. This is just fast theorycrafting and something that would need to be tested thoroughly and quite likely not work very well. A semi control, blackbased Allies kind of deck
I think someone tried Boros ally with some success. Check back the forum's older threads. It's a viable strategy, but I would be concerned with the balance between spells and creatures. That is the same opinion I had back then and now. If you can fix that, it would be fine.
Personally tried Thalia's Lieut. I do agree it works decently. Not Battlesinger or Blademaster level of spectacular, but just decent. Go with Champion of the Parish for the best effects.
Back to topic, let me test a few games out with my tuned deck and I'll post some results if possible. I just want to point out that going on play/draw is very crucial when in comes to the sideboarding of the deck. More on that once I have something to show.
Yes. It's definitely been awhile. To be completely honest I have not touched my ally deck since I retired the deck to move on to other decks. The whole irony is there isn't a deck that interest me other than Tron. Now I'm back where I left off.
Regarding burn, Ondu cleric is a double-or-nothing card. If they leave him alone, it will cost them the game. Ondu would be better used in vial builds to flash in. For more aggressive build without vial, lantern scout would be more heavily emphasised.
Other cards to consider:
Kor firewalker
Spellskite
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Dromoka's command
Chalice may hurt your deck. But give it a try with proxy first before investing. It's bonkers now for the price.
The last time I fought burn with success is with vials. After that the only other time I fought what is close to burn is burning zoo. Lost that match.
Traditional burn likely relies on their threats to bring your life down below 5 and finish you off from there. Their reach is there but timing the protection or countermeasures can give a chance to counterswing. Once our creatures are out of bolt range, they will have a tough time to deal with our board.
Depends on your deck build. If you are going all in, replace any harabaz druid,expedition envoy or 1/2 off cards. I won't touch any of the creatures entering with +1/+1 nor would I touch lantern scout, kabira evangel or firemantle mage. I'd really think 3-4 pieces would be the starting point, then we slowly cut from there if required. Usually, when testing new cards, it's going in 1 and up, but I really think this will alter the backbone of the deck.
I second it. sir francois gave a pretty good reason as to how it will help the deck. If played right, the mimic is actually THE t2 Lord the deck needed to make our explosiveness to be reckoned with. Sure, in late-game, he's not a great topdeck. To be honest, none of the aggressive allies are great topdecks. The objective is to win explosively. This would help ensure the allies coming in survive by going beyond bolt range. The most painful part about playing the deck is to get a creature to survive for a turn to deal damage. Most of the time, getting the ally killed on-sight is what hindered out deck as they have no haste (chasm guide won't work well) nor are we able to defend off the removals well (you can play protection or Hexproof, but limited to 2 pieces in 75 most of the time. You won't really waste slots playing it).
I guess this is something viable that would really put ally deck on the radar. I'd say it's the card that we needed it for a really long time.
Hi all, I've retired my ally deck. I'm moving to play other decks for experience. But, I'll be hanging around in the primer to help you guys if needed though
I'm not trolling, but if you would want to use grave effectively, there is not much you can do in BW colours. Abzan would be the deck to look at. However, I do agree that if we have access to better use the grave, it would be potential for a more efficient strategy in late game.
Speaking of late games, anyone happens to have their hand out by turns 5-6 and go into top-deck mode that quickly?
What about Hero of Bladehold? I think it would be a 2x slot very interesting, the only creature of the deck, to work as a finisher!
Bladehold used to be my go-to card for BW tokens. But, with the recent changes in the meta and lengthy discussions with friends, I decided to drop hero of bladehold and go for more "control-ish" style of gameplay. But, yes, in a more aggressive play, Bladehold will get the job done if left alone.
Looks great! The hero's downfall is for which matchup? i feel boarding 1 for 1 removal against nahiri (i assume its to kill pw) is not where you want to be against ancestral visions decks.
Dhamlin, i think elspeth tiral is amazing in the sideboard if you expect a lot of prison decks, 5 casting cost is really alot.
It's mainly against Karn, Ugin and Nahiri. It feels a little out of place though. But that's pretty much my hard answers against planeswalkers. What suggestions you have against dealing with walkers?
One of my biggest challenges is figuring out when to play CoCo. Should I drop the allies already on my hand, then CoCo or th other way around? I have a feeling the answer wont be straightforward, since I feel this depends a lot on the other deck I'm playing against.
Also should I path early creatures or save it for the midgame?
CoCo should be rather straightforward. Look at the deck. Do they potentially play mass removals? If no, be bold and go in for damage. If they are playing heavy removal, play it end of their turns to allow them to attack on your turn. Other more straightforward tricks would include using them to protect your creatures (coco intokabira evangel/firemantle mage)or to ambush the opponents. Generally, you'd CoCo for extra damage; be it via evasion/protection or for the anthem effect
I tried the RW allies first, but found it wasn't very consistent, even though it was super fun to play with. Then shifted a few things around to get to this version and I think it has a lot of potential, but I am not living up to it yet.
Yep, I did discuss that RW ally is very inconsistent. But, I think another player is tinkering with RW brew and it looks decent. Personally, I don't play RW ally and I don't advise ppl playing it, but hey it's a meta call and preference, so give it a shot if you think it's fun. Naya ally gives more room for exploration and more well-known, but there are other possible variants and ways to play Ally.
The sideboard, though. How on earth should I decide what comes out?
Your input was awesome, though, thanks! I'm usually afraid of taking creatures out and mess up the ratio for CoCo.
Do you take cards like scales or lead the stampede out or usually just creatures?
This one is tricky... Rule of thumb is no less than 28 (26 is the minimum) for coco to function proper. Generally, you'll have 3-4 slots flex for sideboarding. Depending on MUs, which you think are the most redundant cards against a MU, you side them out regardless card type.
For instance, Kabira evangel is powerful against midrange decks, but it's a dead card against Tron decks and less effective against Eldrazis. Alternatively, Lead the stampede won't help against aggro mirrors but works wonderfully against control MUs.
I think you have to play with the deck awhile to figure out what cards are great in what MUs and what cards are redundant and requires siding against certain MUs.
Think you have to be more specific as to what tech you have trouble figuring out. It's hard to talk about that unless you are more specific. I can only talk about the general tech for ally for the start:
Nature of the deck:
Aggro. There are combo variants but most lists here would be aggro. There are 3-4 kinds of builds for the aggro version:
RW Ally
Abzan Ally
Naya Ally
Generally, the idea is the same as zoo decks: just go in for the damage. The objective is to maximize damage output in the early game. You have a lot of cards that give buffs, protection, and multiple ETB triggers to give that damage. However, ally decks will fall short very quickly if faced against heavy removal decks.
Some of the prominent bad MUs
Jund
U/W and Grixis Control
Reanimator
TRon
Against Midrange MUs, you are heavily favoured as your creatures tend to grow bigger than theirs and even better if they are light in removal. Just don't overcommit the board if unnecessary.
Sideboarding:
Sideboarding for Ally is a problem. Unlike Slivers and merfolk, we already utilize the best creatures on the main and we don't really have utility creatures of reasonable cmc. There are some as listed below, but their CMC is a little too high for most people to consider them even in sideboard thanks to the aggressive nature of Modern format.
So the best advice for sideboarding is to bring in deck hates. Find cards that shuts down strategies or at least slows them down so that you can build pressure and win by beatdown. Cards like Stony silence, suppression field, pithing needle, Nevermore, Runed Halo, spellskite are some examples that would help.
Last tier would be expedition envoy,firemantle mage,kor bladewhirl would take the priority if required to side out. I may be wrong in the line-up of cards to side out; feel free to disagree and discuss
Adding on, read up what other decks do and how they work at a fundamental level and see what cards can be utilized to shut them down completely or slow them out. You can read up on Zoo decks and their strategies because as mentioned, we are pretty much similar to a naya zoo at the core.
The last point I can point out for tuning deck is to fully utilize your support cards. You may realize don't have many slots for support cards like removal, anthemns, other effects etc.
I think someone tried Boros ally with some success. Check back the forum's older threads. It's a viable strategy, but I would be concerned with the balance between spells and creatures. That is the same opinion I had back then and now. If you can fix that, it would be fine.
Back to topic, let me test a few games out with my tuned deck and I'll post some results if possible. I just want to point out that going on play/draw is very crucial when in comes to the sideboarding of the deck. More on that once I have something to show.
Regarding burn, Ondu cleric is a double-or-nothing card. If they leave him alone, it will cost them the game. Ondu would be better used in vial builds to flash in. For more aggressive build without vial, lantern scout would be more heavily emphasised.
Other cards to consider:
Kor firewalker
Spellskite
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Dromoka's command
Chalice may hurt your deck. But give it a try with proxy first before investing. It's bonkers now for the price.
The last time I fought burn with success is with vials. After that the only other time I fought what is close to burn is burning zoo. Lost that match.
Traditional burn likely relies on their threats to bring your life down below 5 and finish you off from there. Their reach is there but timing the protection or countermeasures can give a chance to counterswing. Once our creatures are out of bolt range, they will have a tough time to deal with our board.
How has metallic mimic worked out for you? It seems good in theory but I have yet to test it.
I guess this is something viable that would really put ally deck on the radar. I'd say it's the card that we needed it for a really long time.
Before I continue, is this the right goal of the discussion?
Speaking of late games, anyone happens to have their hand out by turns 5-6 and go into top-deck mode that quickly?
Bladehold used to be my go-to card for BW tokens. But, with the recent changes in the meta and lengthy discussions with friends, I decided to drop hero of bladehold and go for more "control-ish" style of gameplay. But, yes, in a more aggressive play, Bladehold will get the job done if left alone.
It's mainly against Karn, Ugin and Nahiri. It feels a little out of place though. But that's pretty much my hard answers against planeswalkers. What suggestions you have against dealing with walkers?
4x Concealed Courtyard
1x Fetid Heath
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
5x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Windswept Heath
Planeswalker (5)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Condemn
1x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
2x Raise the Alarm
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Zealous Persecution
Sorcery (15)
1x Collective Brutality
1x Duress
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Spectral Procession
3x Thoughtseize
Enchantment (7)
3x Bitterblossom
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Disenchant
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Lost Legacy
2x Rest in Peace
1x Runed Halo
2x Stony Silence
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Zealous Persecution
4x Concealed Courtyard
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
6x Plains
1x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Windswept Heath
Creature (4)
4x Soul Warden
Planeswalker (5)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Spectral Procession
3x Thoughtseize
Instant (7)
1x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Zealous Persecution
Enchantment (7)
3x Bitterblossom
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Duress
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Lost Legacy
2x Rest in Peace
1x Runed Halo
2x Stony Silence
2x Sundering Growth
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Zealous Persecution
CoCo should be rather straightforward. Look at the deck. Do they potentially play mass removals? If no, be bold and go in for damage. If they are playing heavy removal, play it end of their turns to allow them to attack on your turn. Other more straightforward tricks would include using them to protect your creatures (coco intokabira evangel/firemantle mage)or to ambush the opponents. Generally, you'd CoCo for extra damage; be it via evasion/protection or for the anthem effect
Yep, I did discuss that RW ally is very inconsistent. But, I think another player is tinkering with RW brew and it looks decent. Personally, I don't play RW ally and I don't advise ppl playing it, but hey it's a meta call and preference, so give it a shot if you think it's fun. Naya ally gives more room for exploration and more well-known, but there are other possible variants and ways to play Ally.
This one is tricky... Rule of thumb is no less than 28 (26 is the minimum) for coco to function proper. Generally, you'll have 3-4 slots flex for sideboarding. Depending on MUs, which you think are the most redundant cards against a MU, you side them out regardless card type.
For instance, Kabira evangel is powerful against midrange decks, but it's a dead card against Tron decks and less effective against Eldrazis. Alternatively, Lead the stampede won't help against aggro mirrors but works wonderfully against control MUs.
I think you have to play with the deck awhile to figure out what cards are great in what MUs and what cards are redundant and requires siding against certain MUs.
Nature of the deck:
Aggro. There are combo variants but most lists here would be aggro. There are 3-4 kinds of builds for the aggro version:
Generally, the idea is the same as zoo decks: just go in for the damage. The objective is to maximize damage output in the early game. You have a lot of cards that give buffs, protection, and multiple ETB triggers to give that damage. However, ally decks will fall short very quickly if faced against heavy removal decks.
Some of the prominent bad MUs
Against Midrange MUs, you are heavily favoured as your creatures tend to grow bigger than theirs and even better if they are light in removal. Just don't overcommit the board if unnecessary.
Sideboarding:
Sideboarding for Ally is a problem. Unlike Slivers and merfolk, we already utilize the best creatures on the main and we don't really have utility creatures of reasonable cmc. There are some as listed below, but their CMC is a little too high for most people to consider them even in sideboard thanks to the aggressive nature of Modern format.
So the best advice for sideboarding is to bring in deck hates. Find cards that shuts down strategies or at least slows them down so that you can build pressure and win by beatdown. Cards like
Stony silence, suppression field, pithing needle, Nevermore, Runed Halo, spellskite are some examples that would help.
Other than that as to what cards to side out or in, The core of the deck, naming Hada freeblade, kazandu blademaster, akoum battlesinger would rarely be touched. The next tier down is oran-rief survivalist, kabira evangel, lantern scout, harabaz druid would see potential siding out if necessary.
Last tier would be expedition envoy,firemantle mage,kor bladewhirl would take the priority if required to side out. I may be wrong in the line-up of cards to side out; feel free to disagree and discuss
Adding on, read up what other decks do and how they work at a fundamental level and see what cards can be utilized to shut them down completely or slow them out. You can read up on Zoo decks and their strategies because as mentioned, we are pretty much similar to a naya zoo at the core.
The last point I can point out for tuning deck is to fully utilize your support cards. You may realize don't have many slots for support cards like removal, anthemns, other effects etc.