I see, watch out for squadron hawks though, they're seeing a bit of a come back. So I'm guessing BaM is about a 4/5 turn clock, which is a lot more reasonable considering the other option is dropping more creatures/draw explosives.
I think most of my problem with crusaders happens against zoo. Here none of the 2 drops are any threat to block and likely won't be eating bolt/helix, and smiter being large doesn't see a bolt/helix until after it blocks, so unless the zoo player feels secure enough to burn me (which means crusader might not be enough), they've probably got something for it. Otherwise, UWr anything or twin is probably looking to remove my hatebears instead and crusader is a little safer.
I originally had a pro blue sword to help against merfolk, but thassa/spreading sea makes for easy evasion. I used FaI, hoping to have it be removal as well, but lords put their creatures out of reach quick; also bad against zoo, great for mirror-ish builds and pod. The additional win con from BaM is interesting, but doesn't soul sisters just chump for days? It's a horrible matchup unless I get multiple explosives/torpor orb/ crusader with a sword.
Mirran crusaders are great for pod too, I just cringe every time it gets bolted so you might want them out of the sb or as a 1/2 of. I have a SoLaS in the side for tokens/soul sisters, that isn't horrible for BGx where FaF should also be serviceable, although abrupt decay does put a frowny face on things. I'm down to a singleton baneslayer, but it wins these midrange stalls easy.
Timely Reinforcements can be good, but it's more situational than you might first think. zoo runs so many fetches/shocks that they have a pretty loaded board before you can get off the gain 6 reliably as well, sometimes 2 burn spells in response isn't uncommon. Lifegain vs burn can be mitagated with skullcrack and flames of the blood hand. Merfolk still easily gets evasion. Bad against soul sisters. Marginal stall against BGx and Obliterator, who also have lots of shock/fetches. Okay against pod, but they can shift to comboing off instead.
Harm's way is much too situational, unless there were loads of x/2 across the board or tons of mu's where our bears weren't useful and could be used to trade up, I'd prefer explosives and be done with it, heck even brave the element would save us more damage in general.
I've been thinking about board stalls and if gavony township actually helps us win.
the common board stalls being:
Gavony is meh
Pod - who has more mana dorks and at least 2+ gavony. So unless we get lucky, that's not a board stall we easily win with gavony.
Soul Sisters - never winning a stall here without swords.
Gavony is okay aka flyers secretly doing work
Midrange naya - gavony can let us trade favourably against kotr/scooze/goyf.
BGx - see above.
So if you're running gavony and want more basics/tect edge, it's a potential spot.
I agree, with the forest/plains swap, or a 2/2split since you've got multiple WW casting costs.
I think it was something like 90% chance to have T1 colored source with 14 on color lands and 20 colored sources to tap for 2 on color T2. So a combination of 8 colorless and tapped lands is right on the edge. No voice or qasali gives a little more flexibility.
As for the vial, it's still being run. Some posters have stated they found it slow against aggro or bad draws late. Personally I find it less explosive, which gives other decks a little more time to battle through hate.
I'm curious why you're not runnnig any wildwoods/gavony or do you just prefer the 8 land hate + crucibe? since you might have some spare mana with 7 dorks and 24 lands and tect edge being less effective against aggro and some combos. I like Baneslayer, but as a 4 of, are you able to drop them t3 enough? or do you find that t4 is good enough to stop affinity/zoo. With 2 swords, that your lists seems quite capable of equipping t3 consistently, do you really need 4 baneslayers? They both lifegain and are protected/semi-protected from bolt, and the sword protects from path.
How is your UW/UWr matchup? T3 sword is probably insane, but electroylze is a nightmare. Does thalia, 2 md spellskite, loxondon do enough work preboard without voice of resurgence? scooze isn't great here, but does enough to eat removal, deal a bit of damage, and mess with snapcaster. Post-board is probably easier with sigarda/thrun and a lot of players tend to skimp on running actual wraths currently.
I like Brimaz in general over crusader and unless there's tons of pod/jund(k), it's probably the right call.
well it depends if you're playing against all in twin or tempo or goyftwin.
If they are on all in, then like any combo matchup, you either
a) keep a very fast hand, something with at least ethereal armor/rancor, coronet + random aura with the mana to cast and hope they don't draw/have the combo
b) you mulligan into disruption (suppression field + removal + spirit mantle), but you've got to at least have a creature/wincon. I feel that your 2 suppression fields + 3 pieces of removal is good enough. If you're looking to add anything, maybe a spellskite to protect/stall your/their combo; and it's really good in the mirror and infect.
Since tempo/RUGtwin both run less combo pieces, you have little more wiggle room when keeping a hand
in general plan a) is still good and can be a little less fast, but b) can go wrong if you don't have lifegain and they go bolt snapcaster bolt with mite in the air since we take a lot of damage from our lands. Tarmogoyfs aren't a huge issue since we don't often add anything to the grave besides lands and we can hold them back pretty quick and RUG can be a little less explosive with the bolt plan given their manabase.
Sometimes we just loss to combo because we're not as fast as small zoo/affinity/infect and there's not much we can do. Yea, we all know that feel when they kinda just go off or oops I win, but that's their whole game plan. just do what I do, hope storm(fizzles) and wish horrible draws upon them and their family for the rest of their games/opponents/life.
(jking combo players, we love you guys and i like playing ad nauseam)
Vials aren't definitely necessary, but they are helpful in the control matchup, so its viability, like the rest of your deck list, depends on your meta.
On a side note, is it ever okay to bring in rest in peace against a full playset of snapcasters especially when you run 0-2 scooze. Rest in peace does turn off tarmogyf/gifts in some twin/control lists, but doesn't exactly stop the oops I win or add more threats control needs to deal with.
Affinity is definitely a weird one for me to board since there's a bit of conflicting hate. Creeping corrosion makes chalice and spellskite (if you keep them in to stall the occasional ravager trigger/galvanic blast) a little awkward, and stony silence definitely makes any engineered explosive draw awkward. However, I think it has a place as a 1/2 of to just stall pod/tron/combo/affinity (which leaves only master of etherium as a substantial threat).
I've noticed the lack of Mutavault in the monoW lists and I'm just looking for some experience with it. Is this mostly a price/availability issue or are most players finding 4GQ + 4 Tect edges more successful?
Against a wrath effects, I can exchange a flickerwisp for a better beater namely mirran crusader when I have a vial. Otherwise I can use the extra mana cycling through horizon canopies/pick up a sword I've dropped earlier. I don't run any mana sinks like student of warfare/ mentor of the meek, so I occasionally have some mana sitting around for resto/mindcensor that could be better spent on mutavault beats, so maybe 1/2 copies would be the right number. I occasionally find 8 non white sources a bit much, but it's not horrendous with 22/23 lands. Maybe something like 4 GQ + 1/2 Tect edge + 1/2 Mutavault is a good split.
That's very true, vial is much more than a combat tricks. What I like most about vial is being able to play around arbiter for stuff like steelshaper's gift which gives me a lot of flexibility when tutoring swords for different situations, while having mana open for levelers, removal, horizon canopy cycling; you're just doing more. Unfortunately there's no real manland for monowhite which gets solved running GW. Out of the entire monoW list my favourite card is serra avenger because of the vigiliance + evasion, which is why I hope Brimaz/Elspeth can do some work.
MonoW kinda ends up resorting to vial tricks because the creatures are mostly smaller where they can never really hope to win a stalled board except via flying.
As well as GW needs to draw, it sometimes has trouble closing out games its ahead in. I've loss many games against both pod/control/scapeshift because I was unable to finish them before they stalled the board enough and eventually got bigger (gavony township in melira), drew the combo/metamorph a baneslayer (kiki-pod), paid/found an answer for mindcensor/arbiter, chump you for days with sakura-tribe elders, where vial would limit you out of the gate.
On the other hand, getting around counters/possible discard is huge against fae, and control, also more township/scooze/manland activations never hurts in longer games, and it's also great against living end. The only time I'd consider running multiple mirran crusaders is out of a vial.
I think we've been spoiled by smiter since I want my 3 drop to either be bolt proof or be a huge beater with some sort of plus (mirran crusader/finks), extra points if it does both. I'm leaning towards Brimaz, since it gives me 5 toughness on blocks is a decent clock on an empty board.
So looking at the PT top8, thalia would be strong against 5: UWR control, Blue Moon, Storm, All-in Twin, UWR Twin; with marginal effectiveness against "goyf"twin.
As for Blue Moon, most hatebear lists I've seen have been running 4 basics, 5 dorks, 2/3 pridemages, 1/2 spellskites, 4 ghost quater our own land with some sort of enchantment hate from the side which is a little more wiggle room than most of the list Blue Moon has been stomping over, although we are putting less pressure back on them.
I've been playing the monowhite "modern" D&T that has most of the curve at 2/3 and never really looked into adding green. Both decks try to do similar things, but they can play quite differently where sometimes with the green list you can get a T2 Smiter and <T4 elspeth, thrun, linvala, baneslayer while D&T looks to load multiple smaller creatures on the board and proceeds to get cute with flicker.
The thing is I don't quite see what vial adds to the GW strat. Vialing spellskite/voice is great, but Smiter/Thrun doesn't need it, a T3 scooze off vial nets 1 more activation versus a no dork T3 scooze, and maybe you get a suprise pridemage? where you would've probably had it in play to give exalted anyways. I'm not saying you wouldn't run mana dorks and vials, but the GW list is a little higher up the curve and doesn't usually have aggressive 1 drop such as dryad militant, or utility like judge's familiar, or mana sinks like student of warfare. Perhaps vial in GW allows us to leave up tech like Brave the Elements, but it would probably want to ramp out creatures that survived red sweepers instead. If the meta ends up extremely control, vial would definitely be better, but that also opens up a more live sb for our opponents a la ancient grudge/disenchant.
I like Sword of War and Peace, but the lifegain is lackluster at times especially when U/R delver, UWr tempo can start going to the face with their burn; on the otherhand SoWaP closes out control/scapeshift fast. Depending on how big BW tokens becomes, I'd definitely consider running SoWaP over SoLaS or both, since they both let us get through white creatures/tokens.
I haven't noticed having a baneslayer stuck in my hand too often. I don't often crack Canopies early unless I'm aggressively digging for outs, in which case getting to 5 mana would have been too late anyways. If I get away with a ghost quater stripmine, I should be able to get ahead enough that baneslayer isn't necessary to close the deal or the board gets stalled enough for me to get to 5 eventually (easy with the hierachs/bop). I definitely don't think baneslayer is a win more card, but I would also find it totally reasonable to pass on it at the same time. The fear that I have of cutting baneslayers entirely, is the number of midrangy naya/bant decks that pop up from time to time online. When Baneslayer becomes an additional pridemage/voice/scooze, we become so small that we get preyed on by large goyfs, other smiters with burn/counter backup, and most notably kotr.
I like scooze a lot as well, and I'd definitely have 3 copies if I could and maybe cutting thalia completely would do it. With living end, a T2 scooze on the play is great, but on the draw you can only remove 1 creature and they can get off a living end for 2/3 creatures, which isn't impossible for us to stabilize, but it's definitely an uphill battle. Even though scooze gives lots of utility, lifegain and as a blocker/beater, sometimes I just want scooze to say no to all gy interactions and it just comes up short. Then I start thinking, why not pay 1W instead and let's not worry about it.
I definitely overacted after getting run over by affinity a few times when I couldn't draw into corrosion, so that's when I put in the 2 copies of stony silence. The matchup isn't horrible with linvala, stirring wildwoods, pridemage, and ghost quaters so stony silence only looks decent against tron. We definitely have a weird interaction with tron that usually involves one player steam rolling the other, but being able to keep them off a red source locks the game up.
I think Thalia is one of the bigger issues at the moment, and having it come out of the sideboard could do the trick.
Against Twin/UWr/Delver On the play:
T2 Thalia that gets through a spell snare means they have to tap out on their T2 to kill. If you can follow up with a Arbiter + Ghost Quater, or Spellskite, the game should be easy.
On the draw: Stops a T4 splinter twin if they have no removal. Blocks geist. Can't keep up a counter for your T3?, which isn't great if we want to drop smiters.
Against Pod: It stops a T2 Pod, but you'd probably want an arbiter/mindcensor instead.
Zoo: A 2/1 first strike is relevant if you manage to keep them off one of their basics. And 2/3 mana burn/removal instead of dropping more threats is a deal we can live with.
General downside: most of our sb tech costs 1 more.
Small upsides: Cascade spells have to wait until T4. Paying 1 for a suspended search for tomorrow results in being unable to hold up remand/cryptic. Pretty good overall against tron. Counters cost an extra/wraths come down a turn later against control.
edit: so i was looking for some 3cmc hatebears to replace thalia in the mb, and there really wasnt anything. I think the only real options are mirran crusader that dies to everything, and finks which is a little awkward with torpor orb, but great for the inevitable zoo train, and Brimaz? passes the bolt test and is a decent blocker/beater, so it at least has uses for all mu's.
Scroll to the bottom. I like how we got mentioned over Merfolk or even a Tron deck!
Its a bit re-assuring to see that I'm not alone with trying out Chalice of The Void. I really think that card is SICK in this format, provided you have a deck that can run it without hurting itself. Its kind of like Suppression Field in that regard.
Also note a lot of the numbers in this list match our conclusions after testing: 2 Baneslayers, 2 Avens, 3 Engineered Explosives in the 75, MD Spellskite, Worship. The biggest difference between this list and what I'm running is the Swords and Thalia. I cut Thalia months ago when Storm and Eggs were no longer top tier contenders.
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I'm surprised hatebear got a nod and with the list I've been forcing through dailies, albeit with varied results; and haven't seen a showing at the pro tour :(.
As much as I like chalice, it's definitely not an all-star everywhere, and with it on 1/2, it stops our bears and mana ramp to get into the mid/late game.
I got the engineered explosives tech from here, and I've cut cards for a bird just to get more flexibility with it. The original idea for SoFaI was being additional removal, which we are really light on, but many creatures get out of range too quickly, or its too slow and explosives can handle tokens. Instead I've filled the slot with an elspeth which helps me fly over stalled boards, and especially sakura tribe elders and the occasional wurmcoil engine.
The main reasons why I'm reluctant to cut baneslayer is the lifegain and evasion. Against zoo it eats 2 spells, which aren't going to the face, or a path which are frequently used on smiters (against small zoo) and she closes out stalled boards and grindy matchups quick. The SoLaS I had in there was mostly for tokens and soul sisters, and occasionally in late game scenarios I could swing and reanimate a blocker, and protection from path and dismember can be very helpful. The lifegain is also relevant here, so I could see myself leaving 1 baneslayer for an elspeth.
I frequently try to cut thalia since it disrupts a lot of my sb, but it's still very good even when just soaking up removal on their turn/tapping out and great after a stripmine with 2 power first strike being semi-relevant, so I keep 2 copies in the 75. When it comes to scooze, sometimes we just need a Rest in Peace, and having 4 scooze doesn't solve all the gy shenanigans, so I'm always willing to drop a copy or 2. As for the Wilt Leaf lieges I'm seeing, I feel they are currently unnecessary. I can see it being great if jund and discard picks up, but adding 3/4 more power (generous example) on T3 isn't exactly ending the game especially since none of all creatures have trample; maybe wilt + rancor?. Wilt saves voice and pridemages from sweepers, but your other hate (thalia, mindcensor, arbiter) is still going down to anything that's not pyroclasm, which is everything since zoo is around.
From the sb, I've cut a ray of revelation (which might need to come back in with the amount of blood moons I'm seeing at the PT) and a spellskite (2 in the 75 now) for 2 stony silence (looking for some opinions on it), which may be overkill and I'm unsure of them, but it's extra insurance against tron and affinity, and can be a speedbump against merfolk/pod.
I like Hatebears a lot and it's always well positioned, but more often than not we're just playing too fair and dropping a lot of speedbumps hoping our opponent loses a hubcap or better yet, a tire.
I've got problems against BW-Tokens, what`s the best Sideboard card against them?
BW-tokens is okay since they don't usually run sac effects, but you've got to have leyline and/or mulligan appropriately aginst T1 discard. Then it's an easy race with the usual auras.
I also think bogle is decently positioned. Jund was a huge problem, but we matchup well against a lot of decks. Honestly, the deck is auto-pilot with the exception of how aggressively you should mulligan.
Here's a quick summary:
Tron - watch for sweepers, umbras are useful. you don't auto lose to T3 Karn, but oblivion stone is rough, so don't mulligan everything without ethereal armor/coronet type clock. If you're going down to 4/5 cards you better have disruption and a creature.
UWr - you blank their removal, beware of snapcaster/restoration angel, and swing on to victory. On your slow draws they may be able to chain cryptics and win, but that's about it. If they run sweepers, keep your umbras.
Affinity - Stoney Silence, spider umbra and spirit mantle.
Scapeshift - There's really no good ways to interact with them; a non nature's claim (the 4 life you give away hurts) enchantment removal on prismatic omen builds and hope you can dismember their spellskite instead of pathing it. Your own Spellskite might make them wait an extra turn or two depending how much life you've lost. You really need 4 toughness by t2, and sometimes you've just gotta get big with Spiritdancer.
Soul Sister - this one is good for laughs. watch out for celestial flare, so split your auras
Twin - Fairly annoying. exarch's have huge butts, so sometimes you don't get to swing early. Spirit mantle can pull double duty, suppression field also helps. You can't be too slow or they start coming at you with mites.
Pod - In general, Suppression Field does some work and stoney silence can stall a bit. Against Melira rip also stalls and watch out for orzhov pontiff/qasali pridemage. Don't run into kikipod much, I feel it's easier.
Living end - they will cascade early and often. sandbag a creature and some auras. Retether is okay here, but I don't like the card anywhere else, i lied maybe against Tron.
Burn - leyline + more lifegain and go to town
UR storm - remove electromancer/ascension. If you can't, get aggressive starts and have them attempt to go off prematurely.
Infect - you need early removal or spellskite, they are way faster.
Merfolk - they can get pretty aggressive, spreading seas is very effective.
Zoo - very aggressive, so just stall and lifegain first-strike your way to a win.
Fae - this can be troublesome. They have discard, relevant counters against us, while putting a reasonable clock back on us, and can have sac effects. Leyline up and start trampling over tokens.
Overall, things look decent, not great with engineered explosive being good against zoo and tokens with us as collateral. Sometimes we're a tad slow, but we've got great sb options to get there. Except mana tithe lmao, I always try to find an excuse for them. I've only ever managed to catch like 1 cryptic, 1 sweeper and 2 T3 Karns, but it just feels too hilariously awesome.
I think most of my problem with crusaders happens against zoo. Here none of the 2 drops are any threat to block and likely won't be eating bolt/helix, and smiter being large doesn't see a bolt/helix until after it blocks, so unless the zoo player feels secure enough to burn me (which means crusader might not be enough), they've probably got something for it. Otherwise, UWr anything or twin is probably looking to remove my hatebears instead and crusader is a little safer.
Mirran crusaders are great for pod too, I just cringe every time it gets bolted so you might want them out of the sb or as a 1/2 of. I have a SoLaS in the side for tokens/soul sisters, that isn't horrible for BGx where FaF should also be serviceable, although abrupt decay does put a frowny face on things. I'm down to a singleton baneslayer, but it wins these midrange stalls easy.
Timely Reinforcements can be good, but it's more situational than you might first think. zoo runs so many fetches/shocks that they have a pretty loaded board before you can get off the gain 6 reliably as well, sometimes 2 burn spells in response isn't uncommon. Lifegain vs burn can be mitagated with skullcrack and flames of the blood hand. Merfolk still easily gets evasion. Bad against soul sisters. Marginal stall against BGx and Obliterator, who also have lots of shock/fetches. Okay against pod, but they can shift to comboing off instead.
Harm's way is much too situational, unless there were loads of x/2 across the board or tons of mu's where our bears weren't useful and could be used to trade up, I'd prefer explosives and be done with it, heck even brave the element would save us more damage in general.
the common board stalls being:
Gavony is meh
Pod - who has more mana dorks and at least 2+ gavony. So unless we get lucky, that's not a board stall we easily win with gavony.
Soul Sisters - never winning a stall here without swords.
Gavony is okay aka flyers secretly doing work
Midrange naya - gavony can let us trade favourably against kotr/scooze/goyf.
BGx - see above.
So if you're running gavony and want more basics/tect edge, it's a potential spot.
I think it was something like 90% chance to have T1 colored source with 14 on color lands and 20 colored sources to tap for 2 on color T2. So a combination of 8 colorless and tapped lands is right on the edge. No voice or qasali gives a little more flexibility.
As for the vial, it's still being run. Some posters have stated they found it slow against aggro or bad draws late. Personally I find it less explosive, which gives other decks a little more time to battle through hate.
How is your UW/UWr matchup? T3 sword is probably insane, but electroylze is a nightmare. Does thalia, 2 md spellskite, loxondon do enough work preboard without voice of resurgence? scooze isn't great here, but does enough to eat removal, deal a bit of damage, and mess with snapcaster. Post-board is probably easier with sigarda/thrun and a lot of players tend to skimp on running actual wraths currently.
I like Brimaz in general over crusader and unless there's tons of pod/jund(k), it's probably the right call.
If they are on all in, then like any combo matchup, you either
a) keep a very fast hand, something with at least ethereal armor/rancor, coronet + random aura with the mana to cast and hope they don't draw/have the combo
b) you mulligan into disruption (suppression field + removal + spirit mantle), but you've got to at least have a creature/wincon. I feel that your 2 suppression fields + 3 pieces of removal is good enough. If you're looking to add anything, maybe a spellskite to protect/stall your/their combo; and it's really good in the mirror and infect.
Since tempo/RUGtwin both run less combo pieces, you have little more wiggle room when keeping a hand
in general plan a) is still good and can be a little less fast, but b) can go wrong if you don't have lifegain and they go bolt snapcaster bolt with mite in the air since we take a lot of damage from our lands. Tarmogoyfs aren't a huge issue since we don't often add anything to the grave besides lands and we can hold them back pretty quick and RUG can be a little less explosive with the bolt plan given their manabase.
Sometimes we just loss to combo because we're not as fast as small zoo/affinity/infect and there's not much we can do. Yea, we all know that feel when they kinda just go off or oops I win, but that's their whole game plan. just do what I do, hope storm(fizzles) and wish horrible draws upon them and their family for the rest of their games/opponents/life.
(jking combo players, we love you guys and i like playing ad nauseam)
On a side note, is it ever okay to bring in rest in peace against a full playset of snapcasters especially when you run 0-2 scooze. Rest in peace does turn off tarmogyf/gifts in some twin/control lists, but doesn't exactly stop the oops I win or add more threats control needs to deal with.
Against a wrath effects, I can exchange a flickerwisp for a better beater namely mirran crusader when I have a vial. Otherwise I can use the extra mana cycling through horizon canopies/pick up a sword I've dropped earlier. I don't run any mana sinks like student of warfare/ mentor of the meek, so I occasionally have some mana sitting around for resto/mindcensor that could be better spent on mutavault beats, so maybe 1/2 copies would be the right number. I occasionally find 8 non white sources a bit much, but it's not horrendous with 22/23 lands. Maybe something like 4 GQ + 1/2 Tect edge + 1/2 Mutavault is a good split.
MonoW kinda ends up resorting to vial tricks because the creatures are mostly smaller where they can never really hope to win a stalled board except via flying.
As well as GW needs to draw, it sometimes has trouble closing out games its ahead in. I've loss many games against both pod/control/scapeshift because I was unable to finish them before they stalled the board enough and eventually got bigger (gavony township in melira), drew the combo/metamorph a baneslayer (kiki-pod), paid/found an answer for mindcensor/arbiter, chump you for days with sakura-tribe elders, where vial would limit you out of the gate.
On the other hand, getting around counters/possible discard is huge against fae, and control, also more township/scooze/manland activations never hurts in longer games, and it's also great against living end. The only time I'd consider running multiple mirran crusaders is out of a vial.
So looking at the PT top8, thalia would be strong against 5: UWR control, Blue Moon, Storm, All-in Twin, UWR Twin; with marginal effectiveness against "goyf"twin.
As for Blue Moon, most hatebear lists I've seen have been running 4 basics, 5 dorks, 2/3 pridemages, 1/2 spellskites, 4 ghost quater our own land with some sort of enchantment hate from the side which is a little more wiggle room than most of the list Blue Moon has been stomping over, although we are putting less pressure back on them.
I've been playing the monowhite "modern" D&T that has most of the curve at 2/3 and never really looked into adding green. Both decks try to do similar things, but they can play quite differently where sometimes with the green list you can get a T2 Smiter and <T4 elspeth, thrun, linvala, baneslayer while D&T looks to load multiple smaller creatures on the board and proceeds to get cute with flicker.
The thing is I don't quite see what vial adds to the GW strat. Vialing spellskite/voice is great, but Smiter/Thrun doesn't need it, a T3 scooze off vial nets 1 more activation versus a no dork T3 scooze, and maybe you get a suprise pridemage? where you would've probably had it in play to give exalted anyways. I'm not saying you wouldn't run mana dorks and vials, but the GW list is a little higher up the curve and doesn't usually have aggressive 1 drop such as dryad militant, or utility like judge's familiar, or mana sinks like student of warfare. Perhaps vial in GW allows us to leave up tech like Brave the Elements, but it would probably want to ramp out creatures that survived red sweepers instead. If the meta ends up extremely control, vial would definitely be better, but that also opens up a more live sb for our opponents a la ancient grudge/disenchant.
I haven't noticed having a baneslayer stuck in my hand too often. I don't often crack Canopies early unless I'm aggressively digging for outs, in which case getting to 5 mana would have been too late anyways. If I get away with a ghost quater stripmine, I should be able to get ahead enough that baneslayer isn't necessary to close the deal or the board gets stalled enough for me to get to 5 eventually (easy with the hierachs/bop). I definitely don't think baneslayer is a win more card, but I would also find it totally reasonable to pass on it at the same time. The fear that I have of cutting baneslayers entirely, is the number of midrangy naya/bant decks that pop up from time to time online. When Baneslayer becomes an additional pridemage/voice/scooze, we become so small that we get preyed on by large goyfs, other smiters with burn/counter backup, and most notably kotr.
I like scooze a lot as well, and I'd definitely have 3 copies if I could and maybe cutting thalia completely would do it. With living end, a T2 scooze on the play is great, but on the draw you can only remove 1 creature and they can get off a living end for 2/3 creatures, which isn't impossible for us to stabilize, but it's definitely an uphill battle. Even though scooze gives lots of utility, lifegain and as a blocker/beater, sometimes I just want scooze to say no to all gy interactions and it just comes up short. Then I start thinking, why not pay 1W instead and let's not worry about it.
I definitely overacted after getting run over by affinity a few times when I couldn't draw into corrosion, so that's when I put in the 2 copies of stony silence. The matchup isn't horrible with linvala, stirring wildwoods, pridemage, and ghost quaters so stony silence only looks decent against tron. We definitely have a weird interaction with tron that usually involves one player steam rolling the other, but being able to keep them off a red source locks the game up.
I think Thalia is one of the bigger issues at the moment, and having it come out of the sideboard could do the trick.
Against Twin/UWr/Delver On the play:
T2 Thalia that gets through a spell snare means they have to tap out on their T2 to kill. If you can follow up with a Arbiter + Ghost Quater, or Spellskite, the game should be easy.
On the draw: Stops a T4 splinter twin if they have no removal. Blocks geist. Can't keep up a counter for your T3?, which isn't great if we want to drop smiters.
Against Pod: It stops a T2 Pod, but you'd probably want an arbiter/mindcensor instead.
Zoo: A 2/1 first strike is relevant if you manage to keep them off one of their basics. And 2/3 mana burn/removal instead of dropping more threats is a deal we can live with.
General downside: most of our sb tech costs 1 more.
Small upsides: Cascade spells have to wait until T4. Paying 1 for a suspended search for tomorrow results in being unable to hold up remand/cryptic. Pretty good overall against tron. Counters cost an extra/wraths come down a turn later against control.
edit: so i was looking for some 3cmc hatebears to replace thalia in the mb, and there really wasnt anything. I think the only real options are mirran crusader that dies to everything, and finks which is a little awkward with torpor orb, but great for the inevitable zoo train, and Brimaz? passes the bolt test and is a decent blocker/beater, so it at least has uses for all mu's.
I'm surprised hatebear got a nod and with the list I've been forcing through dailies, albeit with varied results; and haven't seen a showing at the pro tour :(.
As much as I like chalice, it's definitely not an all-star everywhere, and with it on 1/2, it stops our bears and mana ramp to get into the mid/late game.
I got the engineered explosives tech from here, and I've cut cards for a bird just to get more flexibility with it. The original idea for SoFaI was being additional removal, which we are really light on, but many creatures get out of range too quickly, or its too slow and explosives can handle tokens. Instead I've filled the slot with an elspeth which helps me fly over stalled boards, and especially sakura tribe elders and the occasional wurmcoil engine.
The main reasons why I'm reluctant to cut baneslayer is the lifegain and evasion. Against zoo it eats 2 spells, which aren't going to the face, or a path which are frequently used on smiters (against small zoo) and she closes out stalled boards and grindy matchups quick. The SoLaS I had in there was mostly for tokens and soul sisters, and occasionally in late game scenarios I could swing and reanimate a blocker, and protection from path and dismember can be very helpful. The lifegain is also relevant here, so I could see myself leaving 1 baneslayer for an elspeth.
I frequently try to cut thalia since it disrupts a lot of my sb, but it's still very good even when just soaking up removal on their turn/tapping out and great after a stripmine with 2 power first strike being semi-relevant, so I keep 2 copies in the 75. When it comes to scooze, sometimes we just need a Rest in Peace, and having 4 scooze doesn't solve all the gy shenanigans, so I'm always willing to drop a copy or 2. As for the Wilt Leaf lieges I'm seeing, I feel they are currently unnecessary. I can see it being great if jund and discard picks up, but adding 3/4 more power (generous example) on T3 isn't exactly ending the game especially since none of all creatures have trample; maybe wilt + rancor?. Wilt saves voice and pridemages from sweepers, but your other hate (thalia, mindcensor, arbiter) is still going down to anything that's not pyroclasm, which is everything since zoo is around.
From the sb, I've cut a ray of revelation (which might need to come back in with the amount of blood moons I'm seeing at the PT) and a spellskite (2 in the 75 now) for 2 stony silence (looking for some opinions on it), which may be overkill and I'm unsure of them, but it's extra insurance against tron and affinity, and can be a speedbump against merfolk/pod.
This is my current list.
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spellskite
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
2 Rest in Peace
2 Worship
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Spellskite
I like Hatebears a lot and it's always well positioned, but more often than not we're just playing too fair and dropping a lot of speedbumps hoping our opponent loses a hubcap or better yet, a tire.
BW-tokens is okay since they don't usually run sac effects, but you've got to have leyline and/or mulligan appropriately aginst T1 discard. Then it's an easy race with the usual auras.
I also think bogle is decently positioned. Jund was a huge problem, but we matchup well against a lot of decks. Honestly, the deck is auto-pilot with the exception of how aggressively you should mulligan.
Here's a quick summary:
Tron - watch for sweepers, umbras are useful. you don't auto lose to T3 Karn, but oblivion stone is rough, so don't mulligan everything without ethereal armor/coronet type clock. If you're going down to 4/5 cards you better have disruption and a creature.
UWr - you blank their removal, beware of snapcaster/restoration angel, and swing on to victory. On your slow draws they may be able to chain cryptics and win, but that's about it. If they run sweepers, keep your umbras.
Affinity - Stoney Silence, spider umbra and spirit mantle.
Scapeshift - There's really no good ways to interact with them; a non nature's claim (the 4 life you give away hurts) enchantment removal on prismatic omen builds and hope you can dismember their spellskite instead of pathing it. Your own Spellskite might make them wait an extra turn or two depending how much life you've lost. You really need 4 toughness by t2, and sometimes you've just gotta get big with Spiritdancer.
Soul Sister - this one is good for laughs. watch out for celestial flare, so split your auras
Twin - Fairly annoying. exarch's have huge butts, so sometimes you don't get to swing early. Spirit mantle can pull double duty, suppression field also helps. You can't be too slow or they start coming at you with mites.
Pod - In general, Suppression Field does some work and stoney silence can stall a bit. Against Melira rip also stalls and watch out for orzhov pontiff/qasali pridemage. Don't run into kikipod much, I feel it's easier.
Living end - they will cascade early and often. sandbag a creature and some auras. Retether is okay here, but I don't like the card anywhere else, i lied maybe against Tron.
Burn - leyline + more lifegain and go to town
UR storm - remove electromancer/ascension. If you can't, get aggressive starts and have them attempt to go off prematurely.
Infect - you need early removal or spellskite, they are way faster.
Merfolk - they can get pretty aggressive, spreading seas is very effective.
Zoo - very aggressive, so just stall and lifegain first-strike your way to a win.
Fae - this can be troublesome. They have discard, relevant counters against us, while putting a reasonable clock back on us, and can have sac effects. Leyline up and start trampling over tokens.
Overall, things look decent, not great with engineered explosive being good against zoo and tokens with us as collateral. Sometimes we're a tad slow, but we've got great sb options to get there. Except mana tithe lmao, I always try to find an excuse for them. I've only ever managed to catch like 1 cryptic, 1 sweeper and 2 T3 Karns, but it just feels too hilariously awesome.