Hey everyone, I haven't posted here, but I've been reading the thread for a while and I'm finally just about finished building the deck in paper. I'm a little bit concerned about the upcoming B&R and I just have 2 quick questions (hopefully this isn't against the rules).
If Gitaxian Probe gets banned, how much do you guys think it will affect this deck's viability?
If JTMS gets banned, will this deck want to play it?
I recently got blown out by a Chandra's Ignition on a Electrostatic pummeler. It kind of makes me wonder if anything energy related might eat a ban going into modern since the power it provides is much greater than I think people actually realized when the set was spoiled. It's definitely not as broken as Delve was with Treasure Cruise.
Good lord. Now I know what KT means when he calls stuff in this thread "ban mania".
@king: in your primer, you say that you can kill someone from 12hp etc. In reality, I've found that with the right hand, the deck can litteraly combo off (generally on turn 5-7, 4 if you're very lucky) and one-shot someone from 20 life. You just need some manamorphoses (also works with 2 ascensions). With active ascension and manamorphose (especially 2 or more) the deck just feels like regular storm (but better )
Yeah, I think this is a good point. It's realistic to get a combo kill on turn 4 in the Visions of Beyond versions of the deck, and still possible with just sleight. It's important for players new to the deck to know that sometimes it's correct just to try to murder people with bolts if you have the right setup instead of playing too conservatively.
Flooded Strands are replacing Scalding Tarns until I get them. I haven't run into many issues on XMage, but I took a pretty conservative approach to adding them. I'll report back with how it goes at FNM tomorrow, and maybe start trying to add more. One question is- is Sulfur Falls still worth consideration?
I've played a few FNMs since the WMCQ and think that you definitely want to have the white splash for helix and side board cards. Effectively having 8 bolts, 4 of which gain you life, has been incredibly important and I don't see how you could play this without them.
Prowess can substitute for the Helix. Also you can take less damage without the Wsplash in the first place. Whats your list?
Greetings
King
I think in a meta with burn / affinity / other aggro it's best to take advantage of Lightning Helix and Rest for the Weary. Even if the manabase is a bit more painful, Helix more than makes up for it against fast decks. I'm hoping the new fastland will make the manabase a bit better against burn too.
I'm wondering if I'm losing my interest or if MTG just gets worse. Eldritch Moon kinda sucked, too. I was just interested in Emrakul and Liliana, but the set had nothing else to offer.
And I'm so sick of awful mythic rares worth less than some uncommons and seeming really weak. Back then when mythic rares were introduced (Shards of Alara), they seemed so cool and powerful at first sight.
They looked like cards you really wanted, representing the flavor of their planes.
Now, I think mythic doesn't even need to exist anymore. Cards like Hangarback Walker for example are rare, while utter trash like Behold the Beyond is mythic.
This is perfect evidence that no matter what WotC does, people will whine. Everyone endlessly complained about how mythics were supoosed to be big splashy timmy cards, not spike two drops that would be outrageously expensive, and now we're complaing about the exact opposite and saying it's a reason MTG is getting worse. They can't win.
For example, I posit that the nonred deck will have an exalted (sub)theme, because it is a mechanic that exists in all color except red, and a viable commander for a four color exalted deck is a good idea.
They've already said they don't plan to take this approach (I'm on mobile but I can find a source later if you can't). Designing around what colors cannot do doesn't make for particularly interesting design.
Ah, understood. I was just trying to figure out if you're one of the players at my LGS who shows up to modern nights and can't figure out why his dimir deck never slows down all the Jund decks.
What I mean is, independent of the graveyard, it almost never hampers people to mill them (Unless they're playing a toolbox deck or something). There are some cases, you mentioned the graveyard, in which it benefits them but that's not really the point.
Milling yourself can be useful if you add a bit of reanimation. You end up with more options of creatures to bring in from your graveyard. You can also use those creatures to fuel Eater against creature-light decks.
That's what's weird about the psychology of milling -- it is not a disruption, but players feel like it is.
I feel it is disruption if your deck is meant to mill others, if you also mill yourself you are lacking those cards you need to mill the opponents.
Lyonhaert is making a really important point there- and it's going to matter a lot that you understand what he's trying to say if you want to make a good mill deck. Milling people, in the vast majority of cases, benefits them rather than harming them until it actually causes them to lose. Don't think of milling alone as a disruptive gameplan.
I'm happy to give you a clear expansion of why, I just didn't want to do it here and come off as condescending if you already understand what I mean.
Hi everyone! I just started playing Merfolk. I play at two different LGSs, one is a big competitive meta, one is a very inbred less serious meta. Very few people (sometimes none) play Lightning Bolt at LGS #2. Are there any cards that you guys would run but don't because of bolt? (For example, I've had a lot of success running Lotus Cobra in Kiki-Chord at LGS #2, but I wouldn't try it at LGS #1).
I said something similar re: DFCs the first time we went to Innistrad. even took 4 months off. but I got over it.
it's not the end of the game. it's not the end of limited. if you can't handle it, take a break and come back fresh for Kaladesh. (you even get a reprieve with Conspiracy if you want it).
You remember AVR limited? Where soulbond was key and whoever had it best won while one color practically never existed?
This mechanic's sheer EXISTENCE makes limited prone to be even more tilted towards whoever is lucky enough to get a pair of matching meld cards. It's also needlessly complex, and above all it's incredibly worrying that not only someone at wizards thought this was a good idea, but that NO ONE shot it down at any point.
Whoever designed this needs to get fired, and anyone who gave it a pass needs to get yelled at. If mechanics this unbelievably asanine are what pass for "good design" then it's time to move to a game that doesn't have their head up their ass.
Just take a break for a while man. Everyone gets burnt out. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the world continues to rotate as normal even if this does turn out to be real.
that new Thalia from Eldritch Moon is probably going to have to go in the deck.
I'm sure it's worth testing, but I'm not a huge fan. In my experience, we want to chord for cards that are very high value because they're silver bullets that fit a matchup well or they're just very high value cards in general (EWit etc.). I don't think she's either of those things, and I can't imagine it'll slow down aggro decks as much as we'd like it to.
If Gitaxian Probe gets banned, how much do you guys think it will affect this deck's viability?
If JTMS gets banned, will this deck want to play it?
Thanks, from a new delver player.
Good lord. Now I know what KT means when he calls stuff in this thread "ban mania".
Yeah, I think this is a good point. It's realistic to get a combo kill on turn 4 in the Visions of Beyond versions of the deck, and still possible with just sleight. It's important for players new to the deck to know that sometimes it's correct just to try to murder people with bolts if you have the right setup instead of playing too conservatively.
18 Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Mountain
3 Island
Flooded Strands are replacing Scalding Tarns until I get them. I haven't run into many issues on XMage, but I took a pretty conservative approach to adding them. I'll report back with how it goes at FNM tomorrow, and maybe start trying to add more. One question is- is Sulfur Falls still worth consideration?
I think in a meta with burn / affinity / other aggro it's best to take advantage of Lightning Helix and Rest for the Weary. Even if the manabase is a bit more painful, Helix more than makes up for it against fast decks. I'm hoping the new fastland will make the manabase a bit better against burn too.
This is perfect evidence that no matter what WotC does, people will whine. Everyone endlessly complained about how mythics were supoosed to be big splashy timmy cards, not spike two drops that would be outrageously expensive, and now we're complaing about the exact opposite and saying it's a reason MTG is getting worse. They can't win.
They've already said they don't plan to take this approach (I'm on mobile but I can find a source later if you can't). Designing around what colors cannot do doesn't make for particularly interesting design.
Lyonhaert is making a really important point there- and it's going to matter a lot that you understand what he's trying to say if you want to make a good mill deck. Milling people, in the vast majority of cases, benefits them rather than harming them until it actually causes them to lose. Don't think of milling alone as a disruptive gameplan.
I'm happy to give you a clear expansion of why, I just didn't want to do it here and come off as condescending if you already understand what I mean.
Just take a break for a while man. Everyone gets burnt out. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the world continues to rotate as normal even if this does turn out to be real.
I'm sure it's worth testing, but I'm not a huge fan. In my experience, we want to chord for cards that are very high value because they're silver bullets that fit a matchup well or they're just very high value cards in general (EWit etc.). I don't think she's either of those things, and I can't imagine it'll slow down aggro decks as much as we'd like it to.