For what it's worth, I think Thalia is actually worse now because she makes you have to hold 1 extra up when BBE so you can cascade into non-creature spells. The best hate bear now that BBE is unbanned is actually Gaddock Teeg. Since we no longer play CoCo we don't have anything that gets hit by him, except a walker or two if you go that route. Also Eidolon of Rhetoric also got worse since cascade states you "caste" the card. So now Eidolon and Thalia got marginally worse while Teeg got much better.
Thalia and Teeg aren't in the same league. Thalia often affects 90+% of an opponents' nonland cards while Teeg might only hit 2-4 cards. Taxing removal spells and cantrips is an enormous tempo swing. Having Thalia in play with this deck is like having an Ethersworn Canonist in play that only affects the opponent. I also think that Thalia is great against the decks that Zoo is weak against: decks with heavy removal, decks with 2-for-1s like k com, cryptic and liliana that can grind us down. I've played a lot of Jund, Grixis Control, Abzan, etc. against Thalia and she just puts you so far behind that once you're able to remove her from the battlefield its often too late. I also think having a higher density of "must-kill" cards against these decks is important. If Thalia eats a Path, then our KOTR (or whatever your beater of choice is) might stick to the board. Thalia's first strike is also very relevant when you're swinging with exalted triggers and giving her trample. I think Teeg is mostly a card that I want against combo (Past in Flames / Gifts / Ad Nauseam, Unburial Rites, Scapeshift, Conflagrate, random stuff like Faith's Reward, etc.) that is decent against decks that pack Wraths and Cryptics. I'd much rather have a Thalia than a Teeg in play versus these kinds of decks though. If you're running 30 creatures and 7-8 spells then BBE still has a 75% of hitting a creature. Let's not forget that for us to be punished by this "nonbo" all three conditions have to be true, 1) you are tapping out and don't have 1 mana to spare, 2) Thalia is in play, 3) you cascaded into a noncreature spell (25% chance). I find that the early Thalias often die as its a high priority target for opponents to kill. Just because Thalia is before BBE in the curve doesn't mean she'll still be on the table by the time you cast BBE. Lastly, as you mentioned, Eidolon of Rhetoric and Canonist got worse with the addition of BBE, which makes Thalia all the more important to combat decks that love to cast multiple spells in a turn.
Grim Lavamancer: I think this card is criminally underplayed in modern. There is some tension between eating ooze and knight fuel but if he's active and shooting opponent creatures down then it generally doesn't matter if your knights and oozes are a bit smaller. In fact, I've had it come up quite a bit where I just use KOTR's ability to feed the lava man. This card and Ghor-Clan are creature removal/ways to bypass opponents' creatures able to be picked up by Domri.
Qasali Pridemage: He and Hierarch are actually decent BBE cascades because they allow her to attack when she'd otherwise be embarrassingly held back by a lone snapcaster, thalia, VoR, etc. They also make the Nacatls scale well into the mid game rather than being outclassed in combat by opponent goyfs (also have some game shrinking goyfs with lavamancer and ooze). The ability to blow up hollow one, Pentad prism/phyrexian unlife/lotus bloom, plating, eidolon of the great revel, etc. in game 1 can give you a chance in games you would otherwise have no business winning.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: It's her time to shine now that we don't have to worry about our 4 mana 2-for-1 getting taxed to an atrocious 5 mana. She slows down opponents just enough to buy us an extra turn or two to keep swinging. Keep opponents casting 1 spell per turn while we're casting two or just delay their board wipes, K Coms, JTMS, etc. until they're either dead or so close that a stiff breeze would knock 'em over. Just be aware that if you hit a bolt, path or domri off BBE cascade you'll have to pay 1 for it with Thalia out.
Ghor-Clan Rampager: 4 damage "burn spell" immune to Thalia tax, uncounterable, grabbed by Domri, game ender, decent beater if you're desperate for a creature and flooded on mana, feeds the ooze, acts as removal but isn't hit by BBE cascade so it's not wasted onto an empty board like PtE is. After opponents have gotten got by this once or twice you can sometimes get in free damage by bluffing it.
Magus of the Moon: Jury's out on this guy. I have tried to make him work in creature-based Thalia decks in the past but he always seems to get offed shortly after hitting the board. I was running Blood Moons but I had a few hands where I needed to T2 Thalia and couldn't follow up with moon. On the other hand, I’ve also had cases where I cast T2 Thalia, they fetch nonbasics and use up their turn removing her and then I drop a Moon. Perhaps the enchantment is preferable just because it’s more likely to stick.
Mirran Crusader: Most of the large creatures we'd want to swing through are either black or green. Dodges a fair amount of removal and plays well with exalted triggers. He is kind of a nonbo with Ghor-Clan, but still worth running in the deck. Intentionally running this over Smiter.
Grafdigger's Cage: Choosing to run this as it's the most versatile of the gy hate cards, hitting coco, chord, madcap experiment, while being a low enough investment cost for bringing in 1 or more to shut off SCM/second half of souls/faithless looting. Rest in Peace neuters too much of the deck. Living End can be a beating but it's not unwinnable if you have a Hierarch into ooze draw or you can trip them up with Thalia. An early Rampager or two bloodrushed into the bin can buy you some time to stabilize post-Living End as well.
Reclamation Sage: This could just be the 4th Pridemage but I like that it leaves behind the 2/1 body after doing its job.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar: Can be an aggressive card in that it can put potential blockers into play tapped so you can still swing through with the team. It's also a heavily disruptive card performing a similar job to little Thalia but in a different way. I especially love this card against Tron. Seeing their 3rd tron land come into play tapped is terrific. And when their follow up play is a tapped wurmcoil, eeermaaahgerd..
Gaddock Teeg: Stops cryptics, verdict/wrath/damnation, karns, past in flames, gifts ungiven, ad nauseam, scapeshift, JTMS, CoCo (if anyone's still running that). I don’t think I need to argue his merits here.
Kor Firewalker: Choosing to go with the 1/1 split between this and Finks. Finks is more versatile but I think this card is just a lot stronger against burn.
Domri Rade: He acts as card advantage, card selection, creature removal, and inevitability. If his +1 sees a land, you can shuffle it away with a fetch, KOTR's search or just BBE to clear the top. He works exceedingly well with exalted triggers when you use his -2 post-combat after your Nacatl becomes a 4/4, 5/5, etc. I often find myself using +1 finding a Ghor-Clan Rampager, then blood rush +4/+4 a creature on the following turn allowing his -2 to kill a large creature, then cash him in for one more -2 on the next turn. The -2 is also a great way to make use of KOTR's large body in a board stall situation. All the modes are relevant, hitting him off BBE is nuts, in short, I'm just in love with this card in this deck.
I tried quite a bit to make Renegade Rallier work but it just felt too clunky/durdly to me. I don't like that both conditions need to be met: a decent creature in the yard *and* a way to trigger revolt. Sure, you could return a fetch-land, but I feel like I'm playing pretty low to the ground and don't need a creature to ramp. I even went so far as to try Satyr Wayfinder with him so I could give him more targets to return. Sure, you could get cute with Seal of Fire and what-not but even that just seems like you're doing a bad impression of Grim Lavamancer. If anything, I think he might be a sideboard card to be brought in against decks with lots of black and red removal (i.e. not Path to Exile). For those of you wanting to make Rallier work, I've found in the past that Lone Missionary, Selfless Spirit, Burrenton Forge-Tender and Qasali Pridemage work well with him. Recurring a Missionary that just gained you 4 life and traded with a Goblin Guide is pretty much game over against a burn deck (just be wary Skullcrack). BFT, Selfless and Qasali are nice because you can re-use their abilities *and* they trigger Revolt.
I made a conscious decision not to run Tarmogoyf because 1) I want to be running Lavamancer and Ooze, 2) He doesn't get that big in this kind of deck anyway (we're not thoughtseizing away our opponents' planeswalkers), 3) He's just a big dumb beater that doesn't do anything aside from being a big body. KOTR is a big body for 1 more mana but does a whole lot more.
The Main deck Thalias have been hit and miss. Sometimes they set me back a turn by not being able to trigger the Surge cost on bushwhacker with a 1 mana spell (rancor, bolt). Other times they have slowed down opp just enough to buy me another turn to swing in for the win. Still not sure if they belong in the side or main. She seems to be kind of a nonbo with the molten rains in the side so perhaps I’m better off siding her out when I bring in the rains.
Ive been liking the additional green 1cmc spells to use the mana off herbalists (namely the 3 rancor) but there are many times where I’m all revved up with GG but no where to go staring at a hand of bushwhackers, atk com and bolts. It works real well when there is a BTE to convert the mana into something usable, or when casting the herbalists on turn 3 or later but this kind of defeats the purpose of her ability to speed up the deck. I feel like manamorphoses could smooth this out a bit but would have to take the place of the Thalias in the main.
I’m running 2 Lone Missionary and 2 Tin Street Hooligan in the side. The Hooligans have been great at nabbing random artifacts like expedition map, Aether vial, etc. without losing me a lot of tempo if I were to take a turn off of belching out creatures to cast a Revelry. I feel pretty confident against burn on the play, so the Missionaries are only really decent on the draw when I have to play a bit more defensively. They have changed the race math a few times for me, allowing me to swing with the team when I’d ofherwise have to leave back a chump or two.
I really miss rampager and rancor has not really been a great substitute. I know the fact that it is so bad with herbalist and bte mana makes it kind of bad in this shell, but man do I really miss that card. Chain to the rocks has been solid in clearing away blockers with fat butts but it’s just not the same. *tear*
Is this just a general list of cards that the grixis colours can potentially use? If so there's quite a few cards you could still include I guess. If it's meant to be a list of competitive options I think it's the opposite and there's too many cards on there that I don't think have ever been registered in a modern grixis deck or at least not one that's done very well.
I'm trying to compile a list of all "playable" SB cards for grixis control in any given meta with any build, be it proactive heavy PW/heavy creature tapout or reactive cryptic draw-go.
Which of these do you think are unplayable and why? What cards should be in this list that aren't?
Been out of the game for a while but back when I was playing I had a lot of fun playing little zoo with e1, vexing devil, goyfs, guides, BTE, nacatls, kird apes. I loved that I could get e1 to a 4/4 so easily with vexing devils, and sometimes to a 5/5 with goyf. I also liked that I had some mid-game relevance with goyfs if they survived the initial onslaught. I noticed people were playing herbalists and renegades nowadays. I assume this probably speeds up your goldfish a bit (half a turn on avg? idk) since you can crap out more little dudes faster then pump with atk com for the win. Is the version that I mentioned still viable? Or do you just have to be faster now? Thoughts on ways to get a bit more out of goyf up in this shell (sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers - devastating summons, seal of fire/tarfire/eidolon, domri, etc)?
Also, what is the consensus on Chained to the Rocks? I was using ghor-clan to power through Tasigurs and Gurmags but have been getting road blocked by 8/8 Death Shadows as of late. Perhaps I just need to hold my wad until I can kill them in one big burst so as to avoid pumping potential DS? Anyway, a PtE style effect seems useful in the SB but I just hate the idea of giving opp free lands as I find myself winning often times just on bottle necking their mana and not giving them a chance to cast multiple kill spells in a turn. Ramping them by 1 could mean an extra 1cmc kill spell on your dude allowing them time to stabilize and lock up the game.
Is Magus of the Moon useful at all? I'd probably bring it in against any non-red 3+color deck as well as Tron/Eldrazi to stem the bleeding long enough to assemble a board wide enough to alpha strike through a TKS/etc. I prefer the idea of my SB consisting of mainly creatures so as to benefit from atk com, ghor-clan, domri, whacker +1s, and so forth.
I noticed this was mentioned a few pages back, so I tried putting all of grixis' sideboard options together for reference purposes. Here is what I came up with so far. Anything I'm missing? Are there cards that shouldn't even be on this list?
I've been thinking a lot about this deck lately. What do you think of this list? (Mana base not included)
I'm using over 30 creatures in the above list. I'm thinking about cutting it back to about 25 and holding on to the creatures that do something in addition to being beaters.
Hypnotic Specter, Sower, Geists, Crypto, Drakeling, Sedraxis Alch, Shriekmaw, Skinrender, Trinket Mage, etc. are my favorites because they are effectively 2 for 1s.
Serendib Efreet, Wormfang Drake, Delver, Cloudfin, are just really efficient and excellent beaters. I love the thought of exiling a Sedraxis Alchemist with Wormfang only to have it bounce something else when Wormfang dies. It serves as a drawback for killing our 3 power flier. He also serves as "wrath insurance" - we can tuck away a beater that will come back if they wrath so we can continue beating for 3.
I'm currently testing Tombstalker as well. Mask of Memory and Looter il-kor really work well with it. As long as I don't draw it in my opening hand, it seems to be good. I can brainstorm it away and keep pushing it back with cards like Sage Owl too.
Spiketail Drakeling is a total mindscrew for your opponent and I urge you guys to give it a shot if you haven't. I had an opponent overload Cyclonic Rift without the 2 mana to pay out of frustration just to get me to sacrifice the Drakeling.
I'm playing Miscalculation over Mana Leak because I can cycle it late game when it's useless and hope for a Go for Throat or something more relevant.
I should probably add in 2-3 more counters to this list. I have 6 + Spellstutter + Spiketail.
What are the best counters for Sygg?
My favorites: Undermine, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Condescend, Counterspell - after this it feels like a compromise. If we count creatures, then Snapcaster, Spiketail, Spellstutter and Venser.
Has anyone tried Spell snare in EDH? I really love it in Legacy, but its a different meta.
Hello! This is my first EDH deck. I'm here to humbly ask ye olde sages for advice. I started playing 2 weeks ago, but am helplessly addicted. I've already got a Spike deck (Zur), but am trying to make a Johnny deck with the ability to win against some powerful decks. I realize Rosheen has been done before. No one in my play-circle has seen it yet.
The strategy I envision with the deck is pumping out creatures that force my opponents to deal with them. I want meatshields take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. They should allow me enough turns to ramp up to a huge mana pool, so I can sit back and start lobbing huge game-ending bombs. I can use the exiling damage cards (Disintegrate, Red Sun's Zenith, etc.) for spot removal of pesky creatures (i.e. fliers).
The creatures I'm interested are somewhat low-cost (nothing more than 6 CMC) so that I can use excess mana to fuel X cost spells. I also prefer that they can ramp up and get out of hand quickly. I've looked at a lot of Rosheen decklists and some of them seem to include cards simply because they have an X-requirement, but that are garbage otherwise. I don't want the deck to be gimmicky, and I don't want to rely solely on my general. I don't want to flounder and feel helpless when I can't produce those 4 hits of X. Therefore, I've included only a moderate amount of X-cost spells. You'll notice the deck also focuses on mirroring spells, so that I can lob 2x or 3x big Fireballs for 1-shot kills. I've got a little redundancy built in to make sure those bombs are uninterrupted, but I could include more (City of Solitude, Overmaster).
Decklist @ MTGVault
I'm over 100, and that's part of the reason I'm here. I need to make cuts. On the sideboard are other cards I'm considering.
Instants Utility Beast Within removal when I really need it Chord of Calling X cost tutor that puts creature onto battlefield Strength of the Tajuru +X/X for creatures, perfect for this deck Tangle Stall when I need more turns for mana to ramp, also leaves opponents' creatures tapped, both offensive and defensive utility Moment's Peace Same reason as above, with flashback Nature's Claim Artifact/enchantment removal on the cheap Krosan Grip Split second version of above, redundancy Mana Harrow Armageddon defense, or just card/land advantage/mana fixer Duplicators Reverberate Increasing Vengeance Same as above with flashback Damage Comet Storm A taste of what's to come Fling Make them pay for exiling my 15/15 Hydra
Some candidates for the deck I'm particularly interested in: Mwonvuli Acid-Moss destroy enemy land, and I draw a land Oracle of Mul Daya Lotus Cobra interested in seeing an interaction between this and the Oracle
I can't get this deck out of my head. If I had more experience, I could refine it and have it really come to fruition. But I don't, so that's where you come in Please guide me; I'm eager to hear your suggestions. Thanks!
Thalia and Teeg aren't in the same league. Thalia often affects 90+% of an opponents' nonland cards while Teeg might only hit 2-4 cards. Taxing removal spells and cantrips is an enormous tempo swing. Having Thalia in play with this deck is like having an Ethersworn Canonist in play that only affects the opponent. I also think that Thalia is great against the decks that Zoo is weak against: decks with heavy removal, decks with 2-for-1s like k com, cryptic and liliana that can grind us down. I've played a lot of Jund, Grixis Control, Abzan, etc. against Thalia and she just puts you so far behind that once you're able to remove her from the battlefield its often too late. I also think having a higher density of "must-kill" cards against these decks is important. If Thalia eats a Path, then our KOTR (or whatever your beater of choice is) might stick to the board. Thalia's first strike is also very relevant when you're swinging with exalted triggers and giving her trample. I think Teeg is mostly a card that I want against combo (Past in Flames / Gifts / Ad Nauseam, Unburial Rites, Scapeshift, Conflagrate, random stuff like Faith's Reward, etc.) that is decent against decks that pack Wraths and Cryptics. I'd much rather have a Thalia than a Teeg in play versus these kinds of decks though. If you're running 30 creatures and 7-8 spells then BBE still has a 75% of hitting a creature. Let's not forget that for us to be punished by this "nonbo" all three conditions have to be true, 1) you are tapping out and don't have 1 mana to spare, 2) Thalia is in play, 3) you cascaded into a noncreature spell (25% chance). I find that the early Thalias often die as its a high priority target for opponents to kill. Just because Thalia is before BBE in the curve doesn't mean she'll still be on the table by the time you cast BBE. Lastly, as you mentioned, Eidolon of Rhetoric and Canonist got worse with the addition of BBE, which makes Thalia all the more important to combat decks that love to cast multiple spells in a turn.
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Horizon Canopy
(30 Creatures)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Domri Rade
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Stony Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
Grim Lavamancer: I think this card is criminally underplayed in modern. There is some tension between eating ooze and knight fuel but if he's active and shooting opponent creatures down then it generally doesn't matter if your knights and oozes are a bit smaller. In fact, I've had it come up quite a bit where I just use KOTR's ability to feed the lava man. This card and Ghor-Clan are creature removal/ways to bypass opponents' creatures able to be picked up by Domri.
Qasali Pridemage: He and Hierarch are actually decent BBE cascades because they allow her to attack when she'd otherwise be embarrassingly held back by a lone snapcaster, thalia, VoR, etc. They also make the Nacatls scale well into the mid game rather than being outclassed in combat by opponent goyfs (also have some game shrinking goyfs with lavamancer and ooze). The ability to blow up hollow one, Pentad prism/phyrexian unlife/lotus bloom, plating, eidolon of the great revel, etc. in game 1 can give you a chance in games you would otherwise have no business winning.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: It's her time to shine now that we don't have to worry about our 4 mana 2-for-1 getting taxed to an atrocious 5 mana. She slows down opponents just enough to buy us an extra turn or two to keep swinging. Keep opponents casting 1 spell per turn while we're casting two or just delay their board wipes, K Coms, JTMS, etc. until they're either dead or so close that a stiff breeze would knock 'em over. Just be aware that if you hit a bolt, path or domri off BBE cascade you'll have to pay 1 for it with Thalia out.
Ghor-Clan Rampager: 4 damage "burn spell" immune to Thalia tax, uncounterable, grabbed by Domri, game ender, decent beater if you're desperate for a creature and flooded on mana, feeds the ooze, acts as removal but isn't hit by BBE cascade so it's not wasted onto an empty board like PtE is. After opponents have gotten got by this once or twice you can sometimes get in free damage by bluffing it.
Magus of the Moon: Jury's out on this guy. I have tried to make him work in creature-based Thalia decks in the past but he always seems to get offed shortly after hitting the board. I was running Blood Moons but I had a few hands where I needed to T2 Thalia and couldn't follow up with moon. On the other hand, I’ve also had cases where I cast T2 Thalia, they fetch nonbasics and use up their turn removing her and then I drop a Moon. Perhaps the enchantment is preferable just because it’s more likely to stick.
Mirran Crusader: Most of the large creatures we'd want to swing through are either black or green. Dodges a fair amount of removal and plays well with exalted triggers. He is kind of a nonbo with Ghor-Clan, but still worth running in the deck. Intentionally running this over Smiter.
Grafdigger's Cage: Choosing to run this as it's the most versatile of the gy hate cards, hitting coco, chord, madcap experiment, while being a low enough investment cost for bringing in 1 or more to shut off SCM/second half of souls/faithless looting. Rest in Peace neuters too much of the deck. Living End can be a beating but it's not unwinnable if you have a Hierarch into ooze draw or you can trip them up with Thalia. An early Rampager or two bloodrushed into the bin can buy you some time to stabilize post-Living End as well.
Reclamation Sage: This could just be the 4th Pridemage but I like that it leaves behind the 2/1 body after doing its job.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar: Can be an aggressive card in that it can put potential blockers into play tapped so you can still swing through with the team. It's also a heavily disruptive card performing a similar job to little Thalia but in a different way. I especially love this card against Tron. Seeing their 3rd tron land come into play tapped is terrific. And when their follow up play is a tapped wurmcoil, eeermaaahgerd..
Gaddock Teeg: Stops cryptics, verdict/wrath/damnation, karns, past in flames, gifts ungiven, ad nauseam, scapeshift, JTMS, CoCo (if anyone's still running that). I don’t think I need to argue his merits here.
Kor Firewalker: Choosing to go with the 1/1 split between this and Finks. Finks is more versatile but I think this card is just a lot stronger against burn.
Domri Rade: He acts as card advantage, card selection, creature removal, and inevitability. If his +1 sees a land, you can shuffle it away with a fetch, KOTR's search or just BBE to clear the top. He works exceedingly well with exalted triggers when you use his -2 post-combat after your Nacatl becomes a 4/4, 5/5, etc. I often find myself using +1 finding a Ghor-Clan Rampager, then blood rush +4/+4 a creature on the following turn allowing his -2 to kill a large creature, then cash him in for one more -2 on the next turn. The -2 is also a great way to make use of KOTR's large body in a board stall situation. All the modes are relevant, hitting him off BBE is nuts, in short, I'm just in love with this card in this deck.
I tried quite a bit to make Renegade Rallier work but it just felt too clunky/durdly to me. I don't like that both conditions need to be met: a decent creature in the yard *and* a way to trigger revolt. Sure, you could return a fetch-land, but I feel like I'm playing pretty low to the ground and don't need a creature to ramp. I even went so far as to try Satyr Wayfinder with him so I could give him more targets to return. Sure, you could get cute with Seal of Fire and what-not but even that just seems like you're doing a bad impression of Grim Lavamancer. If anything, I think he might be a sideboard card to be brought in against decks with lots of black and red removal (i.e. not Path to Exile). For those of you wanting to make Rallier work, I've found in the past that Lone Missionary, Selfless Spirit, Burrenton Forge-Tender and Qasali Pridemage work well with him. Recurring a Missionary that just gained you 4 life and traded with a Goblin Guide is pretty much game over against a burn deck (just be wary Skullcrack). BFT, Selfless and Qasali are nice because you can re-use their abilities *and* they trigger Revolt.
I made a conscious decision not to run Tarmogoyf because 1) I want to be running Lavamancer and Ooze, 2) He doesn't get that big in this kind of deck anyway (we're not thoughtseizing away our opponents' planeswalkers), 3) He's just a big dumb beater that doesn't do anything aside from being a big body. KOTR is a big body for 1 more mana but does a whole lot more.
The Main deck Thalias have been hit and miss. Sometimes they set me back a turn by not being able to trigger the Surge cost on bushwhacker with a 1 mana spell (rancor, bolt). Other times they have slowed down opp just enough to buy me another turn to swing in for the win. Still not sure if they belong in the side or main. She seems to be kind of a nonbo with the molten rains in the side so perhaps I’m better off siding her out when I bring in the rains.
Ive been liking the additional green 1cmc spells to use the mana off herbalists (namely the 3 rancor) but there are many times where I’m all revved up with GG but no where to go staring at a hand of bushwhackers, atk com and bolts. It works real well when there is a BTE to convert the mana into something usable, or when casting the herbalists on turn 3 or later but this kind of defeats the purpose of her ability to speed up the deck. I feel like manamorphoses could smooth this out a bit but would have to take the place of the Thalias in the main.
I’m running 2 Lone Missionary and 2 Tin Street Hooligan in the side. The Hooligans have been great at nabbing random artifacts like expedition map, Aether vial, etc. without losing me a lot of tempo if I were to take a turn off of belching out creatures to cast a Revelry. I feel pretty confident against burn on the play, so the Missionaries are only really decent on the draw when I have to play a bit more defensively. They have changed the race math a few times for me, allowing me to swing with the team when I’d ofherwise have to leave back a chump or two.
I really miss rampager and rancor has not really been a great substitute. I know the fact that it is so bad with herbalist and bte mana makes it kind of bad in this shell, but man do I really miss that card. Chain to the rocks has been solid in clearing away blockers with fat butts but it’s just not the same. *tear*
I'm trying to compile a list of all "playable" SB cards for grixis control in any given meta with any build, be it proactive heavy PW/heavy creature tapout or reactive cryptic draw-go.
Which of these do you think are unplayable and why? What cards should be in this list that aren't?
Been out of the game for a while but back when I was playing I had a lot of fun playing little zoo with e1, vexing devil, goyfs, guides, BTE, nacatls, kird apes. I loved that I could get e1 to a 4/4 so easily with vexing devils, and sometimes to a 5/5 with goyf. I also liked that I had some mid-game relevance with goyfs if they survived the initial onslaught. I noticed people were playing herbalists and renegades nowadays. I assume this probably speeds up your goldfish a bit (half a turn on avg? idk) since you can crap out more little dudes faster then pump with atk com for the win. Is the version that I mentioned still viable? Or do you just have to be faster now? Thoughts on ways to get a bit more out of goyf up in this shell (sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers - devastating summons, seal of fire/tarfire/eidolon, domri, etc)?
Also, what is the consensus on Chained to the Rocks? I was using ghor-clan to power through Tasigurs and Gurmags but have been getting road blocked by 8/8 Death Shadows as of late. Perhaps I just need to hold my wad until I can kill them in one big burst so as to avoid pumping potential DS? Anyway, a PtE style effect seems useful in the SB but I just hate the idea of giving opp free lands as I find myself winning often times just on bottle necking their mana and not giving them a chance to cast multiple kill spells in a turn. Ramping them by 1 could mean an extra 1cmc kill spell on your dude allowing them time to stabilize and lock up the game.
Is Magus of the Moon useful at all? I'd probably bring it in against any non-red 3+color deck as well as Tron/Eldrazi to stem the bleeding long enough to assemble a board wide enough to alpha strike through a TKS/etc. I prefer the idea of my SB consisting of mainly creatures so as to benefit from atk com, ghor-clan, domri, whacker +1s, and so forth.
I've been thinking a lot about this deck lately. What do you think of this list? (Mana base not included)
I'm using over 30 creatures in the above list. I'm thinking about cutting it back to about 25 and holding on to the creatures that do something in addition to being beaters.
Hypnotic Specter, Sower, Geists, Crypto, Drakeling, Sedraxis Alch, Shriekmaw, Skinrender, Trinket Mage, etc. are my favorites because they are effectively 2 for 1s.
Serendib Efreet, Wormfang Drake, Delver, Cloudfin, are just really efficient and excellent beaters. I love the thought of exiling a Sedraxis Alchemist with Wormfang only to have it bounce something else when Wormfang dies. It serves as a drawback for killing our 3 power flier. He also serves as "wrath insurance" - we can tuck away a beater that will come back if they wrath so we can continue beating for 3.
I'm currently testing Tombstalker as well. Mask of Memory and Looter il-kor really work well with it. As long as I don't draw it in my opening hand, it seems to be good. I can brainstorm it away and keep pushing it back with cards like Sage Owl too.
Spiketail Drakeling is a total mindscrew for your opponent and I urge you guys to give it a shot if you haven't. I had an opponent overload Cyclonic Rift without the 2 mana to pay out of frustration just to get me to sacrifice the Drakeling.
I'm playing Miscalculation over Mana Leak because I can cycle it late game when it's useless and hope for a Go for Throat or something more relevant.
I should probably add in 2-3 more counters to this list. I have 6 + Spellstutter + Spiketail.
What are the best counters for Sygg?
My favorites: Undermine, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Condescend, Counterspell - after this it feels like a compromise. If we count creatures, then Snapcaster, Spiketail, Spellstutter and Venser.
Has anyone tried Spell snare in EDH? I really love it in Legacy, but its a different meta.
Hello! This is my first EDH deck. I'm here to humbly ask ye olde sages for advice. I started playing 2 weeks ago, but am helplessly addicted. I've already got a Spike deck (Zur), but am trying to make a Johnny deck with the ability to win against some powerful decks. I realize Rosheen has been done before. No one in my play-circle has seen it yet.
The strategy I envision with the deck is pumping out creatures that force my opponents to deal with them. I want meatshields take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. They should allow me enough turns to ramp up to a huge mana pool, so I can sit back and start lobbing huge game-ending bombs. I can use the exiling damage cards (Disintegrate, Red Sun's Zenith, etc.) for spot removal of pesky creatures (i.e. fliers).
The creatures I'm interested are somewhat low-cost (nothing more than 6 CMC) so that I can use excess mana to fuel X cost spells. I also prefer that they can ramp up and get out of hand quickly. I've looked at a lot of Rosheen decklists and some of them seem to include cards simply because they have an X-requirement, but that are garbage otherwise. I don't want the deck to be gimmicky, and I don't want to rely solely on my general. I don't want to flounder and feel helpless when I can't produce those 4 hits of X. Therefore, I've included only a moderate amount of X-cost spells. You'll notice the deck also focuses on mirroring spells, so that I can lob 2x or 3x big Fireballs for 1-shot kills. I've got a little redundancy built in to make sure those bombs are uninterrupted, but I could include more (City of Solitude, Overmaster).
Decklist @ MTGVault
I'm over 100, and that's part of the reason I'm here. I need to make cuts. On the sideboard are other cards I'm considering.
First off, the creatures:
Ooze
Acidic Slime Deathtouch and versatile removal
Scavenging Ooze Answer to GY play
Predator Ooze Low cost, nice blocker
Hydra
Primordial Hydra Xcost and meddlesome, what's not to love?
Protean Hydra ^ Ditto
Feral Hydra On the chopping block, nice mana/X sink but not much else
Apocalypse Hydra Also might get cut, but seems nice for sniping pesky 2/2s and 1/1s here and there
Trolls
Thrun, the Last Troll Hexproof and hard to get rid of
Troll Ascetic Thrun's little brother
6CMC beat sticks
Flameblast Dragon XR cost spell, a gift that keeps on giving
Steel Hellkite X cost permanent removal
Wurmcoil Engine Seems to fit into this deck nicely
Primeval Titan 6/6 for 6, untap lands and trample? i think so (I know it's banned, but I'll use it until someone complains)
Utility and other
Obstinate Baloth Nice blocker, deters attacks
Orcish Settlers 1-Sided armageddon with enough mana (X cost)
Urabrask the Hidden Haste for all, opponents' creatures enter tapped
Fire Servant 2x damage
Dragonmaster Outcast Removal magnet for 1
Wort, the Raidmother Spell duplicator and tokens
Vexing Shusher Makes my nukes uninterruptable
Eternal Witness GY tutor
Mana dorks
Solemn Simulacrum Expendable, gives me a land, no card disadvantage
Sakura-Tribe Elder Cheap chump blocker and gives me a land
Magus of the Candelabra Converts Rosheen's mana into regular mana
Llanowar Elves
Birds of Paradise
Next up, enchantments and artifacts:
Asceticism expensive, but seems really powerful
Curse of Bloodletting double the pleasure, double the fun
Pattern of Rebirth deterrent for killing general, or I can suicide a lackey that I can regen, tutoring me a 6CMC for 5
Mana Reflection
Bear Umbra Untap lands, saves a life, but may be too spendy
Knives in the toolbox
Basilisk Collar Makes my indestructible, regenerators and hexproofs a lot more scary
Lightning Greaves Shroud/haste for beat sticks
Sword of Feast and Famine +DMG and untapping, love it
X dumps
Chimeric Mass Expendable, essentially a 4/4 for free with Rosheen at the very least, sticks around after Wrath of God
Sigil of Distinction Can think of a lot of uses for this, staple
Soul Foundry X dump, token factory
Mana
Thousand-Year Elixir Doubles the mana I get from Rosheen, not useless without her either
Thran Dynamo
Coalition Relic
Sol Ring
Doubling Cube
aaaand Skullclamp for card advantage
Instants
Utility
Beast Within removal when I really need it
Chord of Calling X cost tutor that puts creature onto battlefield
Strength of the Tajuru +X/X for creatures, perfect for this deck
Tangle Stall when I need more turns for mana to ramp, also leaves opponents' creatures tapped, both offensive and defensive utility
Moment's Peace Same reason as above, with flashback
Nature's Claim Artifact/enchantment removal on the cheap
Krosan Grip Split second version of above, redundancy
Mana
Harrow Armageddon defense, or just card/land advantage/mana fixer
Duplicators
Reverberate
Increasing Vengeance Same as above with flashback
Damage
Comet Storm A taste of what's to come
Fling Make them pay for exiling my 15/15 Hydra
Planeswalkers
Garruk Wildspeaker Mana and tokens (sac fodder)
Garruk, Primal Hunter tokens and card draw
Sorcery
Nukes
Banefire Uncounterable if x>=5 which it will be with Rosheen
Kaervek's Torch Tough to interrupt
Bonfire of the Damned Burninating the peasants
Rolling Thunder Again, peasant destruction
Fanning the Flames
Fireball
Disintegrate Exile
Red Sun's Zenith Exile
Demonfire Exile
Mana ramping
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Utility
Regrowth Bounce back from removal at a critical point
Shattering Spree May be useless if opponent isnt using artifacts, but can also be devastating and efficient
Green Sun's Zenith Cheap creature tutor
Genesis Wave No brainer, right?
Gelatinous Genesis Meat shields, sac fodder for X cost
Lands
Boseiju Who Shelters All untinterrupted nuking
14 Forest
11 Mountain
Reliquary Tower
Valakut the Molten Pinnacle yesss!
Stomping Ground
Rootbound Crag
Kessig Wolf Run
Gaea's Cradle
Copperline Gorge
Gruul Turf
Some tweaks will be made depending on opponent.
Versus Fliers: Hurricane, Silklash Spider, Whirlwind, Crushing Vines
Versus White: Anarchy
Versus Black: Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt
Versus Blue: City of Solitude, Overmaster, Dosan the Falling Leaf
Some candidates for the deck I'm particularly interested in:
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss destroy enemy land, and I draw a land
Oracle of Mul Daya
Lotus Cobra interested in seeing an interaction between this and the Oracle
I can't get this deck out of my head. If I had more experience, I could refine it and have it really come to fruition. But I don't, so that's where you come in