> Implying any half way decent control deck has literally 0 creatures
> Implying any half way decent deck doesn't have more than just sol ring
Hell, just trading a late game crypt for a signet or an early signet for a Crypt/Sol Ring can be good enough, or switching a signet you don't need for a better one can be good enough. Even better if you are playing a real deck that has non-rock artifacts.
> Implying a creature that blows up pillowfort cards while thinning your deck of lands isn't good for aggro even if it's high on the curve
All of that vs... needing enough rocks and/or dorks and multiple ways to keep drawing cards.
Sure some commanders can replace the need for 'multiple ways to keep drawing cards' such as Tasigur or Thrasios, but they both need over 5 mana in rocks/dorks, and tasigur needs them to generate specific colors... Azami technically needs less, but then you'd need to have more wizards in play to lessen the chances of bricking...oh and she costs 5 mana herself so it's unlikely you're playing both on the same turn.
The earliest you're most likely playing a Dox Engine is T3 and it requires something like T1 land, mana dork, T2 land, signet (or on t1 if you had it), T3 land dox engine, and that taps you out and costs you 6 out of the 10 cards you've drawn up until that point in the game. So for you to win from there you would require one of the 5 cards you'll have on t4 to be enough gas to keep you drawing or a combo piece.
Sure, you could get it out faster with Crypt, Vault, Sol Ring, etc, but that first one is a much better argument for makes too much mana too quickly than something that will in general be a turn 4+ problem, with a whole round (3->4) to deal with it.
And thanks, just got back from playing a few games. Players seem to be a bit more on the casual spectrum what I have seen, and I it looks like I will be cutting Grafdiggers, Mnemonic, and Seeds. Not sure what I will slot in yet though...
Into more comp pots Mnemonic should still be good as a value play since other people will have been wheeling or using strong cards, but I have not been able to really test it in that scenario.
Yeah, singling out Gideon Champion of Justice seems awkward, he's at his easiest to ulti when he's also at his hardest to protect. His + does nothing, and his 0 is kinda just there.
You guys seemingly skip over any of my posts whenever I talk about the power level of decks involved it is really very strange actually.
Addressing the fact that if the decks are not super powerful then the Planeswalker deck will also be less powerful never seems to come up, for some reason these decks always have the removal and the mana and the cards to keep playing the game and trying to play Ultimate against 3 opponents of similar power.
That doesn't seem right. Lower powered metas are highly creature based, usually with little real CA, which means landing an early PW or wiping the board ups the odds of allowing your walker to either go off or generate enough advantage to set you far ahead. As the power level gets higher the number of answers goes up and lowers the odds of the PWs getting out of control.
In either case, like some people have already mentioned, if the counterargument that PWs aren't going to survive long enough because that's what usually happens anyways is correct then why make them legal? If there's a planeswalker you really like and you feel like it represents you better than your commander just stuff it behind your actual commander in a clear sleeve and let people know your actual commander is the creature.
Also in reference to the argument that people naturally regulate themselves, if that was the case the banlist would contain exactly 0 cards and pubstompers wouldn't exist.
Grafdigger's Cage is just such a great hate piece at a very low opportunity cost. Besides Flash it also hits things like storm, Yisan, and Yawgmoth's Will. It's more of a flex spot right now since I haven't really played at the new LGS, but it's a good blind choice.
Tidespout can also bounce my around Sol Ring, Vault, and Crypt with a signet to generate infinite colored mana to go off so it should be decent. As a sidenote there were some other versions of Tasigur that used Oath of Druids to rush out Tidespout and do the above to win.
I wouldn't run Trinket Mage though. I don't want it in every game, and the deck should have enough interaction where it isn't super important. The only other targets for it would be the 0 and 1 cmc rocks, but that would feel kinda slow. It works better in things like PW Teferi since it doesn't have black, the rocks are combo pieces and it can also grab the cage or voltaic key.
Because it's much easier to ultimate a planeswalker that you can cast whenever you want than it is to do it with one you had to draw into within 99 cards.
The other benefit of Mission > Snapcaster is that you can do things like tutor something up with Vampiric Tutor or Mystical Tutor, then use Briefing to dump it on the grave and cast it. But the tech with Survival probably does make snappy better in your case.
List looks pretty good, and the primer layout seems good.
One thing that jumped out at me in particular is having Snapcaster in the cards to test but not Mission Briefing, have you not considered it at all, or is just because Snap has some utility with phulk?
As side note I suspect that a robust survey strategy would be far more informative than an advisory committee (in terms of what people actually want and enjoy out of Commander). With a little work it'd be possible to reach a large subsection of the community, possibly in partnership with Wizards (who we know relies heavily on community engagement surveys).
[...]
The Planeswalker as Commander survey is a pretty good example of this I think. Take that to Reddit and comment cards in Commander sets and so on and you could really understand the community pretty well.
Yeah, maybe some sort of short survey with some incentive inside the edh precons?
From what I've gathered at least one of the members could provide some contrasting opinions to the general RC voice.
I agree that applications would have been nifty, but using Sheldon's example, I don't think I would have liked them to pick VSFUs vs people with more reach.
Edit because I got ninjad- Glad to hear that it seems like the members were picked with healthy disagreement in mind.
The issue with VSFUs is that no one really knows about them unless they're also in the same forum space as them and having someone completely unknown join that would feel kinda sketchy.
> Implying any half way decent deck doesn't have more than just sol ring
Hell, just trading a late game crypt for a signet or an early signet for a Crypt/Sol Ring can be good enough, or switching a signet you don't need for a better one can be good enough. Even better if you are playing a real deck that has non-rock artifacts.
> Implying a creature that blows up pillowfort cards while thinning your deck of lands isn't good for aggro even if it's high on the curve
All of that vs... needing enough rocks and/or dorks and multiple ways to keep drawing cards.
Sure some commanders can replace the need for 'multiple ways to keep drawing cards' such as Tasigur or Thrasios, but they both need over 5 mana in rocks/dorks, and tasigur needs them to generate specific colors... Azami technically needs less, but then you'd need to have more wizards in play to lessen the chances of bricking...oh and she costs 5 mana herself so it's unlikely you're playing both on the same turn.
I wouldn't (and don't) jam PE into every single deck.
Sure, you could get it out faster with Crypt, Vault, Sol Ring, etc, but that first one is a much better argument for makes too much mana too quickly than something that will in general be a turn 4+ problem, with a whole round (3->4) to deal with it.
And thanks, just got back from playing a few games. Players seem to be a bit more on the casual spectrum what I have seen, and I it looks like I will be cutting Grafdiggers, Mnemonic, and Seeds. Not sure what I will slot in yet though...
Into more comp pots Mnemonic should still be good as a value play since other people will have been wheeling or using strong cards, but I have not been able to really test it in that scenario.
That doesn't seem right. Lower powered metas are highly creature based, usually with little real CA, which means landing an early PW or wiping the board ups the odds of allowing your walker to either go off or generate enough advantage to set you far ahead. As the power level gets higher the number of answers goes up and lowers the odds of the PWs getting out of control.
In either case, like some people have already mentioned, if the counterargument that PWs aren't going to survive long enough because that's what usually happens anyways is correct then why make them legal? If there's a planeswalker you really like and you feel like it represents you better than your commander just stuff it behind your actual commander in a clear sleeve and let people know your actual commander is the creature.
Also in reference to the argument that people naturally regulate themselves, if that was the case the banlist would contain exactly 0 cards and pubstompers wouldn't exist.
Tidespout can also bounce my around Sol Ring, Vault, and Crypt with a signet to generate infinite colored mana to go off so it should be decent. As a sidenote there were some other versions of Tasigur that used Oath of Druids to rush out Tidespout and do the above to win.
I wouldn't run Trinket Mage though. I don't want it in every game, and the deck should have enough interaction where it isn't super important. The only other targets for it would be the 0 and 1 cmc rocks, but that would feel kinda slow. It works better in things like PW Teferi since it doesn't have black, the rocks are combo pieces and it can also grab the cage or voltaic key.
Also, thanks!
That'd be pretty cool, run it by him!
Yeah, I'm on EE, but dropped de the Razaketh, the Foulblooded lines when I added Paradox Engine and just switched his slot for Muldrotha, the Gravetide, but I'm likely switching it for Tidespout Tyrant soon, he might give more utility as being both an out and extra removal on my regular interaction.
Some of the weird card choices (ie Misdirection) are because I don't have their replacements yet.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tasigurs-seasonal-banana-scepter/?cb=1549207642
One thing that jumped out at me in particular is having Snapcaster in the cards to test but not Mission Briefing, have you not considered it at all, or is just because Snap has some utility with phulk?
Yeah, maybe some sort of short survey with some incentive inside the edh precons?
I agree that applications would have been nifty, but using Sheldon's example, I don't think I would have liked them to pick VSFUs vs people with more reach.
Edit because I got ninjad- Glad to hear that it seems like the members were picked with healthy disagreement in mind.
The issue with VSFUs is that no one really knows about them unless they're also in the same forum space as them and having someone completely unknown join that would feel kinda sketchy.