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  • posted a message on Ban//Unban
    Quote from medvet20 »
    so, i have a question, which is the philosophy of commander?


    Quote from schweinefett »
    @medvet20: i think you've smacked the nail right on the head; many of us are debating what should be banned, and/or unbanned, but we don't all necessarily share the same philosophy of what EDH should be.


    Not sure if either of you were trying to go somewhere specific with the thing about the Philosophy and I missed it, but uh, here's the literal EDH philosophy:
    Commander is designed to promote social games of magic.
    It is played in a variety of ways, depending on player preference, but a common vision ties together the global community to help them enjoy a different kind of magic. That vision is predicated on a social contract: a gentleman's agreement which goes beyond these rules to includes a degree of interactivity between players. Players should aim to interact both during the game and before it begins, discussing with other players what they expect/want from the game.

    House rules or "fair play" exceptions are always encouraged if they result in more fun for the local community.

    (from the front page of mtgcommander.net)

    and their more detailed version:
    http://forum.mtgcommander.net/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12254
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Can PoK return after a few years in exile?
    Quote from blkh »
    You indirectly answered your own questions. If you listed so many answers already, why is it broken in the first place?????????


    Because realistically speaking, even if the entire pod is playing decks that are at least 15% removal some of those are going to be sorcery speed, some of those are going to be spent on other things, and others just aren't going to pop up, which would probably be fine for most cards. The problem with PoK is what was said before, it's an effect -everyone- wants so people are going to be trying to copy, reanimate, or steal it, so now suddenly you need to kill it a second or third time, and hopefully you can kill it each time before it becomes a psuedo time walk or time stretch or the person who controls it can reasonably get pretty far ahead... and now you'll need removal for the PoK AND the other threats she's brought down quicker than normal.

    In generally I agree that people should run more removal, and I've seen people who hate that argument and yet have literally 0 removal in their decks, but I don't think PoK is an issue that's solved simply by running more removal. Although I always get sad when I cast my Seedborn Muse because it's not a PoK, I'd rather it stay banned.

    And yes, the only really good removal thats come out in the past few years for EDH, at least as far as I can remember, is Trophy and that literally just came out.




    Quote from blkh »


    Isn't that true? Don't flame me please. Just my perception.


    > "Don't flame me please"
    > mocks everyone who disagrees



    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, and Temporal Manipulation
    ^ this tbh. You don't accidentally play solitaire with extra turn cards.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Instantly ban-hammer worthy?
    > spelltwine is like bribery

    What? How is casting cards from peoples gravayard remotely the same as cherry picking the best creature among all the cards your opponent still hasn't drawn? Also, Emrakul was banned long before PrimeTime was banned.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    I wouldn't think so, we already have Dox Engine x Dramatic scepter, which is essentially a two card win, and it hasnt been a real issue, not sure why it would change with worse cards. Dox Engine Twanos could be nifty, but I doubt it be an issue if Jhoira hasn't been one.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Serra Ascendant needs to be banned
    Yeah, the new ones. Wizard's could have done a game wide errata since it would have also fixed them for things like two headed giant... but uh... they didn't. The RC didn't take the chance when WotC started doing it to issue their own errata, and they've historically never had an issue with any of those cards, so why would they add more complexity to the rules now when their goal has been to simplify them?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Nah, he'd still be banned overall, that's howhe was banned back in 2012 after all. His being a crature just makes it worse when he's in the deck vs the command zone.

    http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12073
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    At least part of it could be because in casual someone can fall very behind due to bad draws (say get stuck on two lands), draw into balance, and wreck everyone elses game.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Torment of Hailfire
    Thrasios, Tasigur, and Breya take offense to that.

    Either way, Debt to the Deathless is much better at closing the game out than both Torment or Exanguinate and theres never been much of an issue. (24 mana for 40 life drain, vs 24 mana for 66 damage that be lowered to less than lethal (at 40) with 9 discards/sacs... which is back breaking but unless it involves infinite mana and depending on boardstate it shouldnt be too hard for at least two players to survive. A more realistic mana amount of 12 leads to 16 life loss on debt or 30 on torrent, but with 5 discards/sacs you're already doing less damage, which isnt what you want if youre trying to win.

    Torrent has a much higher ceiling than Debt and the additional effrcts can be nice, but if you're trying to win off of it on the spot without infinite mana it's just too boardstate dependent. And if infinite mana is involved then it really doesn't matter since two other cards would have had the same exact effect or they could have won using any other number of infinite mana lines.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Torment of Hailfire
    I haven't seen it at all in my lgs, but I had been considering it for a ramp based deck I never built.
    It doesnt seem like it's good enough unless its being cast for absurd or game ending amounts though. As a spot removal people can discard, take damage, or sac something else; and you can just shuffle around those if you wanted to discard or deal damage. The upside is that obviously it affects all the opponents, but it's more or less the same.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Edgar Markov Create vs Play vs Cast
    You dont always pay a cost (the pact cycle and omniscience, for example), but whenever you cast a spell it moves from zone A to the the stack and when, if, it resolves it moves to the appropriate zone. Almost anything you play has to be cast first, except lands, tokens however are just put into play.

    yeah, edgard doesn't care if the vampire spell actually resolves or not, just that you cast it.

    in that scenario they would be like 61/61's each, since each token causes all of them to get a counter amd there would be 60 triggers of that happening.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Are the Dack Faydens and Metamorphs stealing/cloning Sol Rings over Gilded Lotuses and Thran Dynamos while both choices are available?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    There isn't any inconsistency, though. SP and PT where banned because they were cards that could be slotted in easily in any deck with green looked innocent enough that casual players would 'accidentally' play them... and proceed to ruin the game, same with PoK except she was more obviously a problem card. Would they still be ban worthy if they got unbanned today? Who knows, I think more people played clones back then because they used to still kill legendaries, so thsre might be less clones and one less source of abuse.

    As for literally every other card thats been mentioned here thst 'ruin games', except csphinx, the players running them are doing so fully knowingly. you dont accidentally ramp into a godo and grab a helm of the host, you don't accidentally jam a mind over matter in an azami deck, ect ect. They arent a good comparison. Csphinx, on the other hand, is certainly way stronger than either of those... in thr long run, and it has a baseline of zero impact as was mentioned before. SP and PT already did their thing: paid six mana and someone killed? At least you got two lands; paid two for an animate dead grabbing it and it died? Hey thats better than a rampant growth; cloned it for four? Better than explosive vegetation. Csphinx comes into play and dies? rip; did it last a single turn before dying? 6 mana for two cards is literally terrible; Did it get clone? Let me think... will my opponent keep drawing with me? should I not draw just in case?

    The sol ring argument is pretty laughable. Its literally only super good in the first 3 turns or if you fell behind early in lands.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist

    There's always juicy bombs that everybody would love to abuse. The point is...I don't really see any serious problem with it. Is still interactive games, people are playing and the first exile spell make the mess end simply. Again, seems you played very little combo/stax games to be that upset from cards that simply scream value, and not necessairly inside cutthroats decks from ubercompetitive players.


    Literally who the banned list is not aimed at.
    Out of those two cards only csphinx is still an issue, Jin G removes most interaction if it survives the round, and refilling your hand has never felt as degenerate as what primetime and sylvsn would cause.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Can Stax be a competitive deck type now?
    Here's one of the best cedh stax lists: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tana-and-tymna-blood-pod-primer/

    A stax deck needs to be able to thrive in it's owm environment, which isn't really something Atraxa can do by default. A lot of the other things have already been mentioned. Basically just lower the curve, figure out what stax pieces actually hurt the strategies in your meta, and be sure you can play around your own hate.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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