Unless there is evidence that he directed people to do something, which again most of the accusations seemed based off of, he talked about something negatively there fore he was directing harassment is crazy. Its basically saying your only allowed to critique things we want to you to critique in a manner we want you to.
And I would like to see the people who were critiquing the same things in a respectful manner and didnt face similar blow back.
The purpose of analogies are lost on you. Good to know.
There are a lot of people on twitter and elsewhere who support him, and make the same arguments he does. They even do so giving their full names. None of them were banned. Funny, innit?
Plenty of magic players are dicks and dont recieve lifetime bans and have their MTGO account revoked.
What is your point? Some people get overlooked for punishment by WotC so ALL players should be immune to punishment? That's absurd.
This isnt politically motivated, but we just happened to be bringing down an punishment usually reserved for criminal behavior on someone who is political?
He chose to double down, hard, after the fact. This isn't the first time he has been called out either. He is unrepentant. He has shown that he has no intention of changing his behavior. In fact, he showed that he has every intention of actually breaking the CoC intentionally, as he directly began insulting people last week.
While the ban is harsher than I envisioned; to say that a lifetime ban for someone who has made very indication that not only are they not going to correct their behavior, but they are infact going to act even worse is unfair is not intellectually honest. Punishment is not solely done for the sake of punishment, but for the sake of correcting undesired behavior. What's the point if someone flat out says they are going to not only not stop, but make things worse in the future?
I am seriously getting the vibe that people's parents did not punish them for anything they did, and if they did then the lesson learned was "Parents are unfair", and not "Don't do this again".
We want a lot of people that look different and think exactly alike.
God forbid the baseline for being part of the community is "don't be a dick".
Plenty of magic players are dicks and dont recieve lifetime bans and have their MTGO account revoked.
The intellectual dishonesty is amazing my favorite part of the Professors video was were he acted like he didnt know what antifa was, and yeah Athena, a wizards of the coast employee, publicly asking about antifa's social media presence isn't tantamount to wanting to join antifa but if a wizards of the coast employee was asking about the alt-rights or neonazi social media presence it would not be kosher.
Not everyone has a following. This may not seem like an important distinction, but there is a massive results difference between a random person on the street saying something, and someone whom has a dedicated podium to influence thousands of individuals. One involves a random bloke who can rather easily be ignored. The other involves a large group of people who are collectively making concerted efforts.
Hell, this isn't even unique to this situation at all. It's a well known phenomena across the world.
Jeremy actively encouraged his followers to troll others, harass others, and insult others. He gloated when they got him banned by trolling people, and gloated when they got him blocked.
This is the same damn argument that Charles Manson used during his entire imprisonment: He didn't actually kill anyone, and to claim that he "forced" people to do it was unfair. Thus he shouldn't be held accountable for what his followers did! The fact is, Jeremy decided he wanted to be an edgelord public figure. The actions needed to be taken to be an edgelord run afoul of the rules. That's his own damn fault.
Not only that, but Jeremy was a dumb enough to make it public. While I appreciate the honesty, that doesn't buy you any favors if you keep doing it. If Jeremy had, you know, stopped being ass I might be more sympathetic. He didn't. He doubled down. Hard. Hell, even if you argument that he did nothing actionable was true prior to the mess going down, it most certainly was not afterwords, when he started throwing every insult you could imagine at people. He likened Froelich to a pedophile; he called Christine a ****, prostitute, and thot; he went on a damn rampage, and that most certainly likely colored WotC's decision on the matter.
We want a lot of people that look different and think exactly alike.
God forbid the baseline for being part of the community is "don't be a dick".
I feel the problem is that kids are growing up without boundaries, with parents who don't teach them appropriate behavior, parents who give them everything they want without question, and the PC culture they so deride pushing the "violence never solved anything" narrative. While I do not condone violence, when I was growing up if I acted like Jeremy did I would get the crap kicked out me, and hard, and deservedly so. This sort of complex where you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, and there are no repercussions ever is just pure entitlement through-and-through.
Act like an adult, get treated like one. Don't act like an adult, don't get treated like one. There is no persecution here.
We want a lot of people that look different and think exactly alike.
The narrative that he was banned for his opinions is damn well false. He was banned for being an ass, an unrepentant one at that who gloated this fact as part of his selling point.
If you act like an ass, there are repercussions. It's that simple. If you can't act like an adult, do not be surprised if recess is taken away.
For someone who claims that everyone is playing the victim, he seems to have convinced everyone he is being persecuted by some grand conspiracy against him. He's not. He acted like an ass. This is comeuppance for being an ass.
It is well within the company rights to do this especially if it is in their own interests and the interests of the community.
Jeremy does not speak for even a significant fraction of conservative players, as I'm pretty sure they don't care and would just want to play the game.
He is like the very people that some other vocal conservatives fight against. An individual who stokes controversy for his own selfish gain.
1. How do you know how conservatives who play magic feel?
2. Washington, DC and Seattle ban discrimination because of political affliation, if Jeremy is banned from participating in a GP in one of those cities it is not clear that Wizards of the Coast is in their rights. Because other individuals have acted in similar or worse manner and not receieved life time bans and the people who have recieved life time bans were at least partially due to criminal behavior or prior-criminal behavior.
Yeah, he wasn't banned because of political affiliation, though.
You are equating correlation and causation. Stop that.
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
A few cities or counties do ban such discrimination. D.C. bans discrimination based on “the state of belonging to or endorsing any political party.” Seattle bans such discrimination based on “any idea or belief, or coordinated body of ideas or beliefs, relating to the purpose, conduct, organization, function or basis of government and related institutions and activities, whether or not characteristic of any political party or group,”
Yeah, that's realy not going to fly. First, he would need to prove he was banned for his political opinion. Which he wasn't, as I've stated multiple times. He was an ass. Don't confuse being an ass with being a conservative. Even if he didn't harass Christine prior to things blowing up, his actions afterwards were absolutely bannable. Alas, we will never know what would have happened, but he made his own damn grave by doubling down and doing exactly what he was accused of.
Second, those city statutes would not hold up in court, at all, due to Jurisdictional authority. In other words, Seattle or D.C. has no jurisdiction to try a case against a company centerred in Renton, WA by a guy who is not living in said cities. You don't get to sue whereever you want, there needs to be some level of jurisdictional authority.
Finally, and most importantly, I refer you back to 1.
It is well within the company rights to do this especially if it is in their own interests and the interests of the community.
Jeremy does not speak for even a significant fraction of conservative players, as I'm pretty sure they don't give two craps and would just want to play the game.
He is like the very people that some other vocal conservatives fight against. An individual who stokes controversy for his own selfish gain.
I go to his twitter feed just to see his descent into madness, and I kid you not he is asking people to subscribe to both of his channels for all of the videos he has coming out. Not "Check out this video", but "Subscribe!"
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case; or a white person was discriminated against for being white and won). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
What other players have recieved life time bans and have had their MTGO accounts cancelled?
Quite a few, for varying reasons. The last major known one I can think of is Zach Jesse.
Sure is. He may be somewhat insane, and he blows things out of proportion, and people really don't like him, but nobody is calling for his banning because he came out vocally supporting him.
"Not making content people want to hear, largely. " I think you really believe that, and thats fine but then dont act shocked when guys like Jeremy end up getting big followings.
Jeremy does not have a large following. The reason why is because he's really the only game in town. If there were other conservative folks who were more reasonable, he would see his viewership drop massively. Equally, just because he is the only major conservative voice does not mean that the reason he is being punished is because he is conservative. That is equating correlation with causation, which is not at all how one should operate.
That said, there are other more-conservatively minded producers. Rudy, as an example, who is even friends with Jeremy apparently, no less. Nobody cares, at all, that he is more conservative. Nobody even cares that he is friends (or friendly colleagues, at least) with Jeremy. Nobody cares that he hasn't come out to denounce Jeremy. Because nobody cares about his damn politics.
Jeremy is pretty much the only vocally conservative content creator Magic has had. You are confusing this notion with the idea that Wizards is banning him because of this. Your population is one, and that population is a guy who openly acknowledges to being a troll who insults people.
The fact is, very few conservative voices have tried to make the content, and those who have have confused being conservative with being an ass.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
Again were are all of the normal conservative voices if this isnt about politics or is Jeremy the only one?
Not making content people want to hear, largely.
Equally, Rudy from AlphaInvestments is pretty clearly more conservative than a lot of the millenial crowd. DesolatorMagic also pretty clearly is conservative, given his vocal support of Jeremy. In fact, there are a good number of people who came out vocally supporting Jeremy's political positions that have Youtube channels and the like. Nobody is calling for action against them, are they?
It's almost like the problem people have is with Jeremy's methods, and not his opinions, given that others have supported exactly what you say he supports, but nothing is happening to them.
Gosh, it's just a mystery, isn't it? Greatest mystery of our age, it is.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
The purpose of analogies are lost on you. Good to know.
There are a lot of people on twitter and elsewhere who support him, and make the same arguments he does. They even do so giving their full names. None of them were banned. Funny, innit?
Also:
Holy crap, you figured it out.
He chose to double down, hard, after the fact. This isn't the first time he has been called out either. He is unrepentant. He has shown that he has no intention of changing his behavior. In fact, he showed that he has every intention of actually breaking the CoC intentionally, as he directly began insulting people last week.
While the ban is harsher than I envisioned; to say that a lifetime ban for someone who has made very indication that not only are they not going to correct their behavior, but they are infact going to act even worse is unfair is not intellectually honest. Punishment is not solely done for the sake of punishment, but for the sake of correcting undesired behavior. What's the point if someone flat out says they are going to not only not stop, but make things worse in the future?
I am seriously getting the vibe that people's parents did not punish them for anything they did, and if they did then the lesson learned was "Parents are unfair", and not "Don't do this again".
Not everyone has a following. This may not seem like an important distinction, but there is a massive results difference between a random person on the street saying something, and someone whom has a dedicated podium to influence thousands of individuals. One involves a random bloke who can rather easily be ignored. The other involves a large group of people who are collectively making concerted efforts.
Hell, this isn't even unique to this situation at all. It's a well known phenomena across the world.
Jeremy actively encouraged his followers to troll others, harass others, and insult others. He gloated when they got him banned by trolling people, and gloated when they got him blocked.
This is the same damn argument that Charles Manson used during his entire imprisonment: He didn't actually kill anyone, and to claim that he "forced" people to do it was unfair. Thus he shouldn't be held accountable for what his followers did! The fact is, Jeremy decided he wanted to be an edgelord public figure. The actions needed to be taken to be an edgelord run afoul of the rules. That's his own damn fault.
Not only that, but Jeremy was a dumb enough to make it public. While I appreciate the honesty, that doesn't buy you any favors if you keep doing it. If Jeremy had, you know, stopped being ass I might be more sympathetic. He didn't. He doubled down. Hard. Hell, even if you argument that he did nothing actionable was true prior to the mess going down, it most certainly was not afterwords, when he started throwing every insult you could imagine at people. He likened Froelich to a pedophile; he called Christine a ****, prostitute, and thot; he went on a damn rampage, and that most certainly likely colored WotC's decision on the matter.
I feel the problem is that kids are growing up without boundaries, with parents who don't teach them appropriate behavior, parents who give them everything they want without question, and the PC culture they so deride pushing the "violence never solved anything" narrative. While I do not condone violence, when I was growing up if I acted like Jeremy did I would get the crap kicked out me, and hard, and deservedly so. This sort of complex where you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, and there are no repercussions ever is just pure entitlement through-and-through.
Act like an adult, get treated like one. Don't act like an adult, don't get treated like one. There is no persecution here.
You were one of those kids who thought their parents were totally being unfair by telling you how to act, weren't you?
When did people become so damn entitled, believing they deserve everything in life and that there are no consequence for anything?
The narrative that he was banned for his opinions is damn well false. He was banned for being an ass, an unrepentant one at that who gloated this fact as part of his selling point.
If you act like an ass, there are repercussions. It's that simple. If you can't act like an adult, do not be surprised if recess is taken away.
For someone who claims that everyone is playing the victim, he seems to have convinced everyone he is being persecuted by some grand conspiracy against him. He's not. He acted like an ass. This is comeuppance for being an ass.
Yeah, he wasn't banned because of political affiliation, though.
You are equating correlation and causation. Stop that.
Yeah, that's realy not going to fly. First, he would need to prove he was banned for his political opinion. Which he wasn't, as I've stated multiple times. He was an ass. Don't confuse being an ass with being a conservative. Even if he didn't harass Christine prior to things blowing up, his actions afterwards were absolutely bannable. Alas, we will never know what would have happened, but he made his own damn grave by doubling down and doing exactly what he was accused of.
Second, those city statutes would not hold up in court, at all, due to Jurisdictional authority. In other words, Seattle or D.C. has no jurisdiction to try a case against a company centerred in Renton, WA by a guy who is not living in said cities. You don't get to sue whereever you want, there needs to be some level of jurisdictional authority.
Finally, and most importantly, I refer you back to 1.
I go to his twitter feed just to see his descent into madness, and I kid you not he is asking people to subscribe to both of his channels for all of the videos he has coming out. Not "Check out this video", but "Subscribe!"
It's a bad joke, really.
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case; or a white person was discriminated against for being white and won). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
Quite a few, for varying reasons. The last major known one I can think of is Zach Jesse.
Sure is. He may be somewhat insane, and he blows things out of proportion, and people really don't like him, but nobody is calling for his banning because he came out vocally supporting him.
Jeremy does not have a large following. The reason why is because he's really the only game in town. If there were other conservative folks who were more reasonable, he would see his viewership drop massively. Equally, just because he is the only major conservative voice does not mean that the reason he is being punished is because he is conservative. That is equating correlation with causation, which is not at all how one should operate.
That said, there are other more-conservatively minded producers. Rudy, as an example, who is even friends with Jeremy apparently, no less. Nobody cares, at all, that he is more conservative. Nobody even cares that he is friends (or friendly colleagues, at least) with Jeremy. Nobody cares that he hasn't come out to denounce Jeremy. Because nobody cares about his damn politics.
Jeremy is pretty much the only vocally conservative content creator Magic has had. You are confusing this notion with the idea that Wizards is banning him because of this. Your population is one, and that population is a guy who openly acknowledges to being a troll who insults people.
The fact is, very few conservative voices have tried to make the content, and those who have have confused being conservative with being an ass.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
Not making content people want to hear, largely.
Equally, Rudy from AlphaInvestments is pretty clearly more conservative than a lot of the millenial crowd. DesolatorMagic also pretty clearly is conservative, given his vocal support of Jeremy. In fact, there are a good number of people who came out vocally supporting Jeremy's political positions that have Youtube channels and the like. Nobody is calling for action against them, are they?
It's almost like the problem people have is with Jeremy's methods, and not his opinions, given that others have supported exactly what you say he supports, but nothing is happening to them.
Gosh, it's just a mystery, isn't it? Greatest mystery of our age, it is.
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.