Went 3-1 last night at FNM, losing only to the mirror. Played vs. Jeskai Combo, Heroic, Jeskai Tokens, and Abzan Warriors. Some things I learned:
- Valorous Stance was excellent but 4 is too many main deck. 3 is most likely the sweet spot, with 1 in the side.
- Ephara is just too slow and devotion is too difficult to switch on. Ordeal is definitely better and was missed.
- Monastery Mentor is the stone cold nuts. I didn't drop a single game in which I was allowed to untap with one in play. It plays out like a living Jeskai Ascendancy and gets out of hand incredibly fast. Phalanx Leader on the board as well made it feel like I was cheating.
To sum up: Phalanx Leader + Mentor >>> Hero of Iroas + Heliod's Pilgrim; Ordeal >>> Ephara despite all the tokens. Next week I'll adjust numbers a bit, add Ordeal of Thassa back and see how it goes from there.
Well, that was another reason for 4x Aqueous over 4x Stratus Walk. Yeah, it doesn't cantrip, but the regularity of scry 1 would hopefully let us avoid hitting a second Ephara too often.
It's all theoretical, and I'm fully prepared for it to just be an inferior build of the deck. I do think Mentor / Ephara might actually have some promise, though. That's a *lot* of cards with a Mentor on the table.
I might end up trying Monastery Siege as well. I haven't really sorted out the sideboard yet. I could see it serving a dual role by improving top decks in matches like UB Control, but also making point removal a tempo loss with the "Spell Pierce everything" mode.
Part of the benefit, as I see it, of Monastery Mentor is becoming less reliant on a single giant monster for a win. You can go wide as you're going tall, and Merciless Executioner isn't that scary when every single instant in your deck doubles as a Stifle for his trigger. The real problem will probably continue to be Hornet Queen, which is one reason for more Aqueous Forms than Stratus Walk. There probably needs to be some sort of sideboard tech for breaking those kinds of board stalls.
No Ordeal could end up being terribly wrong, and I could easily see squeezing two in as the right move.
List I'm tinkering with for week 1 FNM tonight. If it's terrible, no real loss. What I'm really curious about is if Mentor + Ephara is a reasonable interaction. This might not end up the right shell for it, but it's the nearest approximation with a proven track record.
Cutting enchantments makes it harder to switch on Ephara, but also means Hero of Iroas can go. Phalanx Leader with Mentor on the board seems amusing to say the least. I can already see Hornet Queen causing all sorts of issues, but that's life. Like I said, I'm mostly interested in revisiting Ephara now that there is a genuinely powerful token generator in colors for her.
Strategically yes, that's what you should do. But to answer your question... yes, oddly enough. Gatherer on Dark Depths: "Dark Depths's last ability is a state trigger. It will not trigger again while the ability is on the stack, but if the ability is countered and Dark Depths is still on the battlefield with no ice counters on it, it will trigger again immediately." The original Dark Depths will sacrifice due to the legend rule, and the Stage copy will trigger.
The next part doesn't really happen as you describe. By the time the ability triggers, Dark Depths itself is no longer on the battlefield. It has been legend-ruled away, so your opponent wouldn't have a chance to Wasteland it. However, with the Stage copy, while that trigger is on the stack your opponent still has the opportunity to Wasteland it because of the "if you do..." part of triggering Marit Lage. If you stifle the trigger while Wasteland is on the stack, the Stifle will counter the original triggered ability and a new one will be placed on the stack right away above the Wasteland.
It's a weird as hell scenario, and there's a chance I'm wrong, but I feel pretty confident in that reading.
It's rare, but the danger is always there. Generally speaking he's just a decent 4/4 threat in a deck that doesn't generally present creatures that tough. I deliberately built the mana so that nearly everything taps for red or white. It's also why I have avoided any UU or WW cards. As much as I would love to play a Cryptic Command or two, triple blue just isn't something I want to be chasing.
@Cambriel: That list looks like a lot of fun. I like the move with the colonnades in this type of deck. This exemplifies why I love the UWR shell, it can be so versatile. Have you tried Delver or do you feel that there wouldn't be enough spells to activate him.
Delver is pretty bad in modern, if you ask me. In a deck like this with 20 spells, he's a semi-evasive 1.66/1 for 1 mana, which just doesn't cut it. You can't ride him to a free win like you can in Legacy, and he dies to pretty much everything without immediately impacting the board. I could see an argument for his inclusion over Figure and Lavamancer, but I really wanted my turn 1 plays to all be castable off red mana. This is functionally a burn deck with tempo elements and Searing Blaze is hard enough to cast as it is, so turn 1 red is vital. Goblin Guide into Searing Blaze is incredibly painful and difficult to recover from, especially backed by counter magic on the following turns.
This isn't quite a midrange list, but I've been tinkering with a lower to the ground, more aggressive RWU build for a couple of weeks now and having pretty good success at my local shop. I won't swear that it's amazing, but it has caught people off guard.
Previously, I was running 4 Colonnades and the mana was a fair bit shakier, but I've since discarded them in favor of faster early mana. It was nice to have a late game Colonnade to sink mana into, but the deck doesn't lack for those anyway. The strangest card in the list is probably Figure of Destiny, but he's been very strong. I needed an additional turn 1 play, and he fits the bill while being extremely easy to cast. I rarely grow him past a 4/4, but just having a threat that can push beyond Bolt range is fairly significant.
Like I said, I won't swear it's the next big thing, but there's definitely room in the RWU shell for a very aggressive version of the deck.
Cradle is something of a luxury, and you can build around it. You just won't have the most explosive turns the deck is capable of.
- Valorous Stance was excellent but 4 is too many main deck. 3 is most likely the sweet spot, with 1 in the side.
- Ephara is just too slow and devotion is too difficult to switch on. Ordeal is definitely better and was missed.
- Monastery Mentor is the stone cold nuts. I didn't drop a single game in which I was allowed to untap with one in play. It plays out like a living Jeskai Ascendancy and gets out of hand incredibly fast. Phalanx Leader on the board as well made it feel like I was cheating.
To sum up: Phalanx Leader + Mentor >>> Hero of Iroas + Heliod's Pilgrim; Ordeal >>> Ephara despite all the tokens. Next week I'll adjust numbers a bit, add Ordeal of Thassa back and see how it goes from there.
It's all theoretical, and I'm fully prepared for it to just be an inferior build of the deck. I do think Mentor / Ephara might actually have some promise, though. That's a *lot* of cards with a Mentor on the table.
Part of the benefit, as I see it, of Monastery Mentor is becoming less reliant on a single giant monster for a win. You can go wide as you're going tall, and Merciless Executioner isn't that scary when every single instant in your deck doubles as a Stifle for his trigger. The real problem will probably continue to be Hornet Queen, which is one reason for more Aqueous Forms than Stratus Walk. There probably needs to be some sort of sideboard tech for breaking those kinds of board stalls.
No Ordeal could end up being terribly wrong, and I could easily see squeezing two in as the right move.
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Ephara, God of the Polis
2 Ajani's Presence
4 Aqueous Form
4 Defiant Strike
4 Gods Willing
2 Stratus Walk
4 Valorous Stance
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Mana Confluence
7 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove
Cutting enchantments makes it harder to switch on Ephara, but also means Hero of Iroas can go. Phalanx Leader with Mentor on the board seems amusing to say the least. I can already see Hornet Queen causing all sorts of issues, but that's life. Like I said, I'm mostly interested in revisiting Ephara now that there is a genuinely powerful token generator in colors for her.
The next part doesn't really happen as you describe. By the time the ability triggers, Dark Depths itself is no longer on the battlefield. It has been legend-ruled away, so your opponent wouldn't have a chance to Wasteland it. However, with the Stage copy, while that trigger is on the stack your opponent still has the opportunity to Wasteland it because of the "if you do..." part of triggering Marit Lage. If you stifle the trigger while Wasteland is on the stack, the Stifle will counter the original triggered ability and a new one will be placed on the stack right away above the Wasteland.
It's a weird as hell scenario, and there's a chance I'm wrong, but I feel pretty confident in that reading.
I love the card, so I'm not suggesting it's bad. I just don't think it will warp the format like TNN.
Delver is pretty bad in modern, if you ask me. In a deck like this with 20 spells, he's a semi-evasive 1.66/1 for 1 mana, which just doesn't cut it. You can't ride him to a free win like you can in Legacy, and he dies to pretty much everything without immediately impacting the board. I could see an argument for his inclusion over Figure and Lavamancer, but I really wanted my turn 1 plays to all be castable off red mana. This is functionally a burn deck with tempo elements and Searing Blaze is hard enough to cast as it is, so turn 1 red is vital. Goblin Guide into Searing Blaze is incredibly painful and difficult to recover from, especially backed by counter magic on the following turns.
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells:20
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Helix
4 Remand
2 Searing Blaze
2 Electrolyze
4 Arid Mesa
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Celestial Purge
1 Combust
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Molten Rain
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
Previously, I was running 4 Colonnades and the mana was a fair bit shakier, but I've since discarded them in favor of faster early mana. It was nice to have a late game Colonnade to sink mana into, but the deck doesn't lack for those anyway. The strangest card in the list is probably Figure of Destiny, but he's been very strong. I needed an additional turn 1 play, and he fits the bill while being extremely easy to cast. I rarely grow him past a 4/4, but just having a threat that can push beyond Bolt range is fairly significant.
Like I said, I won't swear it's the next big thing, but there's definitely room in the RWU shell for a very aggressive version of the deck.