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  • posted a message on [JMP] [CUBE] Release the Dogs
    Quote from asmallcat »


    I’m struggling to see how Release the Dogs is anything like Triplicate Spirits.



    Well, they are both sorceries that make tokens...

    My main point in comparing them (and battle screech, but that was already brought up) is that there are a lot of ways to get 3 or 4 flying 1/1's in white for around 4 mana if you jump through some hoops, and I think 3 flying 1/1's is basically always better than 4 ground 1/1's. I mean, spectral procession is almost always 4 mana at most, and it is way better than this, and it's a marginal card nowadays (I run it but only because I support RW tokens, I wouldn't otherwise).
    I think the larger objection is that Triplicate Spirits costs 6, and even with convoke is a hard sell to compare to a 4 mana spell. Spectral Procession and Battle Screech are both much better comparisons.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [JMP] Mothership 6/18— Seismic Walls
    Quote from tappwater »
    What am I missing? How is what this article describes a different way to play jump start?
    The initial article introducing Jumpstart talked about a couple different ways to play, including drafting 3 boosters, and opening 4 packs to mix and match into 2 decks before playing a 3 game match where you had to switch between the decks. I think this version (open two packs, mash together) may have been offhandedly mentioned, but was not a focus.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [JMP] Well-read theme - Ormos, Archive keeper and... RHYSTIC STUDY REPRINT!
    Quote from Huss316 »
    Is there a good reason for jumping the rarity of Study from common to rare? I am sure even uncommon would have been ok
    Since it's only in one of the packs (that we know of), it's actually more of a mythic rare. It's a sought after reprint, so changing the rarity (that was first decided on waaaaay back, and would never see print at that rarity today) is just an acknowledgement of its nature.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [JMP] Well-read theme - Ormos, Archive keeper and... RHYSTIC STUDY REPRINT!
    Quote from Xcric »
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Xcric »
    i don't see the point in ormos's ability

    either i'm winning on the spot with lab man/jace/thassa's oracle or i'm losing from drawing while there's no cards. the **** is a 10/10 gonna do for me?

    his draw ability though, that's ******* great in edh... just not at that casting cost.

    i will never say no to more rhystic studies, i'm starting to run out of them.



    She replaces you losing with making her bigger. As long as she’s in play you can’t lose to being decked. Much like Underrealm Lich


    oh, i missed the word instead. thanks for pointing that out i'd have never seen it.


    regardless... the **** is a 10/10 (or greater) doing for me that i can't already do by just winning outright? its not like i'm going to leveler my library and rely solely on a combat damage, so i'm almost always going to have my library in my hand allowing me to win on the spot
    This may be shocking information, but not all decks are built to win on the spot when they draw their whole library. Especially in a more casual setting, or say a randomized enviroment where you mix two packs of 20 cards together to make a deck. Ormos also lets you build a lab maniac deck in EDH that wins "fairly" through combat damage. That will probably be of interest to some people.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [JMP] Chamber Sentry
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    If this is a rainbow theme I hope we get some sunburst/converge action going on in it.

    And a Bloom Tender reprint too

    'buster
    We already have the full list for Rainbow: "Rainbow is a theme that only has one pack. Here's what it would contain that aren't basics:Alloy Myr, Auger Spree, Lawmage's Binding, Prismite, Prophetic Prism, Skittering Surveyor, Dinrova Horror, Fusion Elemental, Ironroot Warlord, Raging Regisaur, Chamber Sentry, Maelstrom Archangel, Rupture Spire, Terramorphic Expanse, Mirrodin's Core"
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [JMP] Mothership 6/17— Neyith of the Dire Hunt and the Thriving Lands
    Quote from Outcryqq »
    T4feri is in one of these decks.

    Hello empty slot in many boxes at LGS's and lower price on the remaining?

    Are you going to be able to tell from the outside which pack is which? I thought I heard you won't know until it's opened.


    From what we know so far, you seem to be able to tell some but not all.

    i.e. there are 4 Predatory packs. You can tell you're getting a Predatory pack but not which one.

    There is only one Rainbow pack. So you will know what's in there.

    This however is the Teferi pack. We dont yet know how many of those there are.


    Nope. Random packs. No data.
    To be clear, all of the struck through stuff is true, but only visible once you've opened the outer wrapper. Inside that outer wrapper, there's a theme card that shows which theme it is, and the cards of the pack are shrink wrapped together. But until you open that wrapper, there's just the Jumpstart booster image.

    Edit: Oh, and minor correction: We do know how many teferi packs there are, they explictly called out that there is only one version. At a guess, we're going to see "common" themes with 4 variations, "uncommon" themes with 2, and "rare" themes that only have one variation.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Mothership 6/15— Shrine tribal
    One of the things with Shrines is in reality I don't think you can push them that hard, because if you do they'd be really obnoxious. They're enchantments that sit on the battlefield that decks won't be packing removal for.

    As is 3 of these are fine. The white one's main use is it ups your shrine count for your other shrines for 1 mana, as its actual ability won't be usable until like T5. The red one is the worst as it's essentially a 3 mana do nothing, it's much easier to find time to play 1 mana do nothing than a 3 mana version.

    I'm sure in limited you will see some games won off these as the black one is going to be a real hard engine to beat once you get it going. Any sort of defensive deck that can just play a couple of these and sit back draining the opponent for 2 every turn from a card type they are probably packing no removal for is going to be tough to beat. It also feels the sort of deck that when its open will be wide open as the black one is basically the payoff, there is little incentive to take most of them meaning you will probably be able to pick them up very easily if you're in the deck. The downside is there will be drafts where they simply aren't opened.
    Worth noting that if there's any sort of standard deck built around these, Sanctum of Shattered Heights is likely to be a large part of the engine of them. One of the main issues with building a constructed deck around Shrines is that you want to run 4 copies of, say, Sanctum of Stone Fangs to ensure that you draw them early enough to work. But that means you end up with multiple copies of a legendary that, as you note, your opponent is unlikely to be packing much removal for. So now you've got these extra shrines clogging up your hand, at which point Shattered Heights pipes up and goes "hey, wouldn't you prefer that those extra shrines and lands be 1 mana removal spells?". I'd be very surprised if a shrine based deck popped up that didn't include Red.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Mothership 6/15— Shrine tribal
    Quote from Guesswork »
    A cycle set on Kamigawa that is ultra-parasitic?

    A cycle set on Kamigawa that legendary in a way that not only unnecessary but also in conflict with the card designs?

    A cycle set on Kamigawa that will thus clog up your hand with unplayable cards?

    A cycle where the white and red ones break the cycle design, and are far and away the worst of the bunch?

    A we-build-it-for-you cycle where the deck you're supposed to build nonbos with itself?

    People... this is self-parody. You're supposed to laugh.
    "Conflicts with the cards designs" is a strong assumption, when mark explicitly talks about how they designed the shrines to be legendary first, and then figured out the way to make that matter.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Mothership 6/15— Shrine tribal
    Quote from CatParty »
    How does the Shrine deck work? The White one is the only 1-drop, and it essentially does nothing until there are a few more shrines in play. Seems like terrible design. Turn 1: White Shrine, Turn 2 Black shrine (Drain trigger), Turn 3 Drain trigger, you can't do anything else if you want to activate the white shrine... Seems bad.
    Given you can only have one of each of them out, odds are a shrine deck would not run only shrines (even if you wanted to, there's only 6 in standard, so that's 24 of your 36 non-land cards). The white one being a 1 drop helps power up the other shrines, while having a strong late game control element. So you probably play some constellation cards to fill in the gaps in your curve, such as the enchantress running around.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Experimental overload and Volcanic geyser reprint - Lordsoflimited
    Quote from Dontrike »
    They really don't like these "Return target instant/sorcery from your graveyard" spells to be in your graveyard. Seems like all of them exile themselves lately.
    Generally, if they have some other effect (like making a token, as a random example) or get more than one card, they don't want to encourage players to loop them. Without the exile clause, you could cast Experimental Overload returning Experimental Overload over and over, making an X/X token every time. Even if it wasn't too powerful, it would still have a repetition of gameplay issue they'd like to avoid.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Sublime Epiphany
    Quote from wallycaine »
    Wow, that's a big cryptic command.

    Is it too much to ask for other colors (especially white) to get this sort of thing? Blue already has cryptic, and Archmage's Charm, and Mystic Confluence.

    White deserves a "exile an artifact, exile an enchantment, exile an attacking creature, gain 5 life, return a card with cmc 3 or less from your graveyard to play" version of this.
    At a guess, this type of card would be harder to do for other colors because there's less timing restricted abilties to put on it. "Counter Target Spell" and "Counter Target activated or triggered ability" are rarely going to be able to be used together, but also aren't mutually exclusive. It's hard to come up with a pair like that for other colors, and that plays into the power level of the card in a big way.


    But... it's ok if the other colors get a less timing-restricted / more powerful version of this card. I know it's a controversial stance but blue doesn't always have to have the best card in a cycle. For the example I gave, you could replace the "return a permanent cmc 3 or less" with "return any permanent that went to the graveyard this turn" to make it more timing restricted.

    I do think this card has a place in EDH, but that depends on you wanting to copy one of your own creatures often enough. Copy your own creature plus draw a card at instant speed is a good enough "fail case" for the card, worth leaving the 6 mana up assuming you have a thing worth copying, and you'll almost always get a beneficial bounce out of it too. This makes you not reliant at all on the time restricted modes, but turns those modes into a huge blowout when they come up.
    While blue doesn't need to have the most powerful version, my point is that getting 5 relevant abilities on a card while having choosing one or more create a variety of options without having to make it cost so much mana it's unwieldy is... extremely rough for non-blue colors. Blue can get away with it more easily because they have those timing limited options that read powerfully, but don't always work together, while also not actively fighting each other. That's not to say it's impossible, and white might have the next best shot at it given that it can have timing restricted destruction/exile effects that depend on combat. But it's still hard to come up with a set of effects that can be costed low enough to be interesting, but also read well enough to get people excited.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21][CUBE] Sublime Epiphany
    I think the floor is slightly lower than 3 for 1, since it seems quite feasible to be in a situation where you have to fire it off as either a 6 mana dismiss or repulse. That said, it feels like those situations should be fairly rare, and either be where you're on the back foot, and can't wait for a better opportunity to fire it off, or already be ahead (I'm assuming if the board is empty and you're firing this off as a dismiss, it's probably good for the control player). The bigger question to me is if the typical 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 situation is worth the 6 mana expense.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [M21] Sublime Epiphany
    Wow, that's a big cryptic command.

    Is it too much to ask for other colors (especially white) to get this sort of thing? Blue already has cryptic, and Archmage's Charm, and Mystic Confluence.

    White deserves a "exile an artifact, exile an enchantment, exile an attacking creature, gain 5 life, return a card with cmc 3 or less from your graveyard to play" version of this.
    At a guess, this type of card would be harder to do for other colors because there's less timing restricted abilties to put on it. "Counter Target Spell" and "Counter Target activated or triggered ability" are rarely going to be able to be used together, but also aren't mutually exclusive. It's hard to come up with a pair like that for other colors, and that plays into the power level of the card in a big way.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Radha, Heart of Keld
    Quote from genini2 »
    Quote from xaltair »
    First strike, was trample too much to deal with?


    And only on your turn. Because a defensive value card would be too much I guess.
    Maro has talked about this a bit before. First strike, as you rightly note, encourages defensive play. Obviously, for a lot of Red cards, that's not the aspect they want to play up. So making it "first strike on your turn" keeps the aggressive aspect of it, and dials down the power level a bit so they can push it somewhere else.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Don’t know if this is the right place to put this.
    Quote from tengence0817 »
    The mire fact that this thread was locked shows no one knows how to talk about this issue which has been the problem for the last 100 years and still is today.
    I would say that's not accurate. It doesn't show that "no one" knows how to talk about this issue... plenty of people have done so successfully. What it instead shows is that A) this is not a conversation the Mods feel comfortable moderating, so they'd rather have it shut down than do so, and B) there are people who know exactly how to talk about this issue in order to get these threads shut down. Obviously B contributes to A, of course, because the mods reluctance to moderate these types of discussions is exacerbated by certain groups desire to use it as a soap box to rant about political correctness or the like. Which creates a toxic feedback loop: Nobody wants to participate in conversations like these on this forum, because the people that make it toxic drown out any attempts at having a genuine discussion or provide education. Which means the main group of people who engage with it are the toxic ones, which makes it impossible to moderate, which means these discussions get shut down. It seems likely there are additional issues with the moderation, mentioned elsewhere in the thread, which obviously do not help.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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