I would like to think I am pretty qualified to chime in here on this a bit.
The reason people are not playing the deck right now, is because it is just a bad deck. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of winning a number of games. In fact, the deck can be configured to really beat any specific match you want it to. Therein lies the problem, and the reason people do not play this deck.
Not only are these configurations vastly different from each other, but they are also completely unstable in a meta game where we have all of these decks that function on flurry mechanics that WBR are almost always open to.
The options that exist in these colors are just too narrow to be able to compete with decks that have much less narrow approaches to handling a game. Especially when all of those decks vary in speed and WBR always has just one speed... slow as ****. It generates value out of goodstuff creatures and removal, where other decks generate value off of simply existing until critical mass is achieved and can do something absurd.
I also completely agree. I never chimed in on the competitive thread on Dega, but I tried so very hard to make this deck do work. I did numerous dailies on MODO and very rarely won more than 1 in 5-7 games. It's such a fun deck with numerous threats but its not positioned well at all. Dega is probably one of my favorite color slices due to it's versatility. It just can't keep up in the meta right now though.
So, I've been a member of the forums for almost a year now, haven't posted too much. So this is me, dropping by to say hello and introduce myself.
Started playing when Return to Ravnica dropped, so I haven't been around as long as some of you. But I'm always learning. Played in very few FnMs and drafts in real life. I got my job at a steel mill back in March of 2013 and after that, I had very little time to play in person. Downloaded mtgo and have been on there ever since. Mostly playing standard and limited with some commander when I get bored. Like I said, I'm not great but am always up for learning!
Hopefully going to be a bit more active on the forums, I always lurk but forget to login haha.
I played an unexpected results deck Frank Lepore covered last standard and I think that's been the most fun I've had playing magic in a long time. Don't get me wrong I love competitive decks. But it's simply totally different when you land Omniscience on turn 3.
Any other decks like this out right now?
More examples are like omni-door-thrag-fire and possibly mazes end which is about all I can think of that's still standard.
Why no Fathom Sage to draw cards. It will pair up Bioshift to restock your hand in bad situtions.
I like that idea a lot better than the guildmage. I don't find myself needing to draw very often though. I seem to burn out right around the time I can swing for lethal. But I'll test it out and see how it performs. My only other concern is that it's another 4 drop and the deck is a little heavy on them. Maybe run 3 ofs of Corpse, Biomancer, and Fathom Mage?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. It runs very nicely and I'm beating a lot of different types of decks fairly consistently. It's not doing as well against fast aggro decks (boros/RDW) but I think that's due to lack of control. It's got amazing synergy. Almost every card works well with one another. It's not a deck with a one card win con, it's meant to just beat them in the face with whatever creature you happen to get out. I'm regularly seeing 7/7s - 9/9s on turn 5-7 with some consistency. If the game goes past turn 9, I'm seeing large creatures normally with trample or unblockable due to champion of lambholt. I'm just curious by what you mean I guess. If I wasn't clear on the purpose of the deck, it's mostly just for fun, FNM play, not meant to be tier 1 at all.
I'm loving playtesting this deck so far, it's quite versatile and easy to run. I know it won't be super competitive but I'm hoping to win some FNM games with it. I was looking for any advice to make it better. There might be a few cards I haven't thought of.
Basically it's just meant to beat peoples faces in as quickly as possible.
Justifications: Champion of Lambholt - Get's out of control quick and helps get attacks through. Bioshift, add cards, and rancor helps me buff him to crazy amounts. Corpsejack Menace - A must have for this deck and he makes things go insanely fast. Especially with the add cards and bioshift. Deathrite Shaman - is mostly there because I wanted another 1 drop that could trigger experiment ones evolve and he's good for delaying the game a bit early or doing a couple easy damage late. Experiment One - Evolve plus a regen option that comes fairly cheap to this deck. I like triggering evolve two or three times then bioshifting the counters off to allow it to trigger more. Master Biomancer - The other staple of the deck and a clear decider of games. When I can drop this and Corpsejack the game gets silly fast. Predator Ooze - Had the Elusive Krasis in this spot instead but I liked the Ooze better for the indestructibly and the fact that it makes tokens easier than the Krasis. Strangleroot Geist - A good 2 drop that allows me to abuse it's undying more than I should. It's great when I can bioshift counters off of it onto a biomancer, so it dies and comes back with a ton more. Blessings of Nature - one of for miracles, although hardcast isn't bad. I'm tempted to remove it though because I haven't miracled it yet in about 10 games. It's good but I think I'd be better suited to drop another savagery or howlpack. Farseek - Mostly here for a quick mana fixer or just for a small amount of ramp (may not be necessary, I'm not sure) Increasing Savagery - Great card for this deck. Corpsejack can turn this into a 30 point drop late game spread over two creatures. Even the normal 5 is great on a biomancer or anyone really. Bioshift - Versatile/amazing card. This coupled with corpsejack/biomancer allows the deck to work. Thinking of adding another one. Corpsejack allows them to come back doubled, it works with Champion/Geist/Experiment one/anyone else that needs them. Hunger of the Howlpack - Good card, cheap to leave enough mana open for it and works great with the Geist because I can easily chump and then drop 3 more counters on him when he comes back. Rancor - +2 and trample can help anyone in this deck and it's always useful for buffing.
Anything you'd be concerned about? I know there's a sever lack of counter for running blue but I'm not too concerned about that. I seem to be able to race fairly well. I thought about maybe Rapid Hybridization but I'm not sure what I'd want to take out.
Also, any ideas for a sideboard? I'm thinking more control, with some artifact/enchantment hate as well, but nothings taken shape yet.
EDIT:
Cards that were originally in and that I rejected for various reasons. Burst of Strength - Good card for what I'm doing but I just felt it wasn't strong enough in this deck. If there was more space, maybe. Forced Adaptation - Also good, would be fun on a biomancer. Just looked a bit too slow for me. Undying Evil - Thought it might be a good way to gen a quick counter and chump block or something. Again, just felt there were better things to be had. Zameck Guildmage - Blah. I liked this guy a lot and he was in several iterations of this deck. I was only using his first ability though and he was just a little too pricey to be doing that too often. It was really only worth it when corpsejack was on the field and even then, it felt like I was paying too much.
I can't seem to get this deck to function correctly. And it's all from mana issues mostly. It's either I draw into too little or too much mana. Neither is prevalent; it seriously seems like 50% of the time I draw into way too much and the other 50% I draw into too little.
The few times that I have managed to make it work, it's performed amazing and it's the first deck that I've built that I think could manage to be alright. I just started playing when Return to Ravnica dropped and I wanted to build my own deck instead of relying on other top decks that have won tourneys.
Otherwise, awesome primer!
I also completely agree. I never chimed in on the competitive thread on Dega, but I tried so very hard to make this deck do work. I did numerous dailies on MODO and very rarely won more than 1 in 5-7 games. It's such a fun deck with numerous threats but its not positioned well at all. Dega is probably one of my favorite color slices due to it's versatility. It just can't keep up in the meta right now though.
Started playing when Return to Ravnica dropped, so I haven't been around as long as some of you. But I'm always learning. Played in very few FnMs and drafts in real life. I got my job at a steel mill back in March of 2013 and after that, I had very little time to play in person. Downloaded mtgo and have been on there ever since. Mostly playing standard and limited with some commander when I get bored. Like I said, I'm not great but am always up for learning!
Hopefully going to be a bit more active on the forums, I always lurk but forget to login haha.
Any other decks like this out right now?
More examples are like omni-door-thrag-fire and possibly mazes end which is about all I can think of that's still standard.
I like that idea a lot better than the guildmage. I don't find myself needing to draw very often though. I seem to burn out right around the time I can swing for lethal. But I'll test it out and see how it performs. My only other concern is that it's another 4 drop and the deck is a little heavy on them. Maybe run 3 ofs of Corpse, Biomancer, and Fathom Mage?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. It runs very nicely and I'm beating a lot of different types of decks fairly consistently. It's not doing as well against fast aggro decks (boros/RDW) but I think that's due to lack of control. It's got amazing synergy. Almost every card works well with one another. It's not a deck with a one card win con, it's meant to just beat them in the face with whatever creature you happen to get out. I'm regularly seeing 7/7s - 9/9s on turn 5-7 with some consistency. If the game goes past turn 9, I'm seeing large creatures normally with trample or unblockable due to champion of lambholt. I'm just curious by what you mean I guess. If I wasn't clear on the purpose of the deck, it's mostly just for fun, FNM play, not meant to be tier 1 at all.
4x Champion of Lambholt
4x Corpsejack Menace
2x Deathrite Shaman
4x Experiment One
4x Master Biomancer
4x Predator Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Breeding Pool
8x Forest
2x Hinterland Harbor
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Watery Grave
2x Woodland Cemetery
1x Blessings of Nature
2x Farseek
2x Increasing Savagery
Instant (5)
3x Bioshift
2x Hunger of the Howlpack
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
Basically it's just meant to beat peoples faces in as quickly as possible.
Justifications:
Champion of Lambholt - Get's out of control quick and helps get attacks through. Bioshift, add cards, and rancor helps me buff him to crazy amounts.
Corpsejack Menace - A must have for this deck and he makes things go insanely fast. Especially with the add cards and bioshift.
Deathrite Shaman - is mostly there because I wanted another 1 drop that could trigger experiment ones evolve and he's good for delaying the game a bit early or doing a couple easy damage late.
Experiment One - Evolve plus a regen option that comes fairly cheap to this deck. I like triggering evolve two or three times then bioshifting the counters off to allow it to trigger more.
Master Biomancer - The other staple of the deck and a clear decider of games. When I can drop this and Corpsejack the game gets silly fast.
Predator Ooze - Had the Elusive Krasis in this spot instead but I liked the Ooze better for the indestructibly and the fact that it makes tokens easier than the Krasis.
Strangleroot Geist - A good 2 drop that allows me to abuse it's undying more than I should. It's great when I can bioshift counters off of it onto a biomancer, so it dies and comes back with a ton more.
Blessings of Nature - one of for miracles, although hardcast isn't bad. I'm tempted to remove it though because I haven't miracled it yet in about 10 games. It's good but I think I'd be better suited to drop another savagery or howlpack.
Farseek - Mostly here for a quick mana fixer or just for a small amount of ramp (may not be necessary, I'm not sure)
Increasing Savagery - Great card for this deck. Corpsejack can turn this into a 30 point drop late game spread over two creatures. Even the normal 5 is great on a biomancer or anyone really.
Bioshift - Versatile/amazing card. This coupled with corpsejack/biomancer allows the deck to work. Thinking of adding another one. Corpsejack allows them to come back doubled, it works with Champion/Geist/Experiment one/anyone else that needs them.
Hunger of the Howlpack - Good card, cheap to leave enough mana open for it and works great with the Geist because I can easily chump and then drop 3 more counters on him when he comes back.
Rancor - +2 and trample can help anyone in this deck and it's always useful for buffing.
Anything you'd be concerned about? I know there's a sever lack of counter for running blue but I'm not too concerned about that. I seem to be able to race fairly well. I thought about maybe Rapid Hybridization but I'm not sure what I'd want to take out.
Also, any ideas for a sideboard? I'm thinking more control, with some artifact/enchantment hate as well, but nothings taken shape yet.
EDIT:
Cards that were originally in and that I rejected for various reasons.
Burst of Strength - Good card for what I'm doing but I just felt it wasn't strong enough in this deck. If there was more space, maybe.
Forced Adaptation - Also good, would be fun on a biomancer. Just looked a bit too slow for me.
Undying Evil - Thought it might be a good way to gen a quick counter and chump block or something. Again, just felt there were better things to be had.
Zameck Guildmage - Blah. I liked this guy a lot and he was in several iterations of this deck. I was only using his first ability though and he was just a little too pricey to be doing that too often. It was really only worth it when corpsejack was on the field and even then, it felt like I was paying too much.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
3x Blood Artist
4x Crypt Ghast
1x Griselbrand
3x Loxodon Smiter
3x Obzedat, Ghost Council
4x Rhox Faithmender
2x Thragtusk
2x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
4x Forest
4x Godless Shrine
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Plains
4x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Sorcery (2)
2x Entreat the Angels
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
I can't seem to get this deck to function correctly. And it's all from mana issues mostly. It's either I draw into too little or too much mana. Neither is prevalent; it seriously seems like 50% of the time I draw into way too much and the other 50% I draw into too little.
Baiscally the deck's supposed to ideally work by getting Obzedat, Ghost Council + Rhox Faithmender on the field for a 6 point sway in my favor every turn. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is another way to combo this. Blood Artists and Thragtusks are just meant for alternate lifegain to stall.
Entreat the Angels, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Griselbrand (+Crypt Ghast) are all alternate win conditions, if I can't manage to just beat them down while gaining life. Rancors to buff and snake damage through.
---
I'm considering lowering Crypt Ghasts and taking out Griselbrand but I'm not sure that will help. Any ideas on how to make this deck work or is it just going to be a complete lost cause?
The few times that I have managed to make it work, it's performed amazing and it's the first deck that I've built that I think could manage to be alright. I just started playing when Return to Ravnica dropped and I wanted to build my own deck instead of relying on other top decks that have won tourneys.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated