So I was on starcity looking up cards for a deck but an add in there news feed thingy came up and it caught my attention. It was for a PDF of the "Next Level Deck Building" written by Patrick Chapin. If you don't know who he is he's a great MTG pro who loves building decks that is why he wrote the "Next Level Deck Building".
(here is a link to youtube to kinda show you a little aobut Next Level Deck Building: Youtube link:
Anyways I was kinda inspired by this and decided that to better myself, and hopefully other players, to start a discussion board, for players of all ranges, to talk about there deck builds and building techniques. This is so everyone who can learn a few tricks here and there and help others along the way.
To make sure players get valuable information please answer at least one or more of the fallowing questions or add one that i don't have already posted bellow
- - ? ? The Big Questions for this thread ? ?- -
1: How do you decide your Deck archtype(s) (what draws you to it and what makes it effective as a deck)
2: What makes you put what in a deck
3: How is what you choose for your deck effective compared to other your other card options? Dose it syengerize well?
4: What makes you decide what you chose for sideboards
5: What makes a deck Competitive vs Casual and how to make a competitive deck
6 (Final question): What makes your choices effective (both side and main) Effective against other decks as well as what makes.
- - So without further a due lets get started with the deck building techniques- -
So yeah i did some testing on the Bant rout and the Nya rout and pitted them against each other and the bant won 3/4 times. I thank you nwrobinson. So just so you know I'm not stealing your deck list here but i did use it as reference and made my own version of the bant deck.
So heres the deck as a bant deck so are there any other ideas or anything that im missing here?
first off archangel, kalonian hydra, and scavenging ooze all should be four of's. also i think you should look more in the bant direction, the cards naya is giving you isnt as good as what bant can give you... this is what i've put together
also if you plan on playing it before rotation farseek is definitely a mainboard. savage summoning is way to situational
if i do decide to go the Bant-Rout what could it really offer me honestly speaking
I never really used blue, I'm really accustomed red and black based decks like Jund and Aristocrats. So how can i make it real use out of Blue
Ok so i did some reworking and it's not nearly as health orientated. This is now how the deck is looking so are there any ideas/thoughts/and or concerns about this deck?
2 things.
1) would what would be the best option to cut for Gyre Sage if i decide to go with the sage/elf rout.
2) I don't know about cutting the courage would but would Scavenging Ooze be a relevant option or would something else would be a better option. Also would hunt the weak be a relevant form of removal (if i go this rout im gonna run 2 max)
So as the tittle suggests im working on a nya deck that uses hydras with the support of angels to hit for the win deck. The main Core can be seen here:
:Core:
Anyway i really wanna make this deck something fierce and effective so what would be great cards to add to the deck and or fix for the deck because as of now this is what im sitting on as the deck stands.
Please note: I'm trying to make the deck sit to where come full rotation in September it won't be affected to much if not at all when that comes but i will look into and read the suggestions that are available until Theros comes out.
after looking around, and reading the post before mine (btw are really usefully and are highly worth looking into). I compiled a list that i think would be much more beneficial to your deck set and will give you a quicker win and doesn't stray from your idea's for the deck (this is obviously IMO)
Here are the resonings for the changes that i made to your listing:
1: this way with mayor if you have no moves you get tokens for either sac/chump block/ and it's overall synergistic with the human and works as an effective buff (excluding a few here but will ultimately make your weenies much more powerful)
2: the priest suit:
2a - High priest of Penitence: easy chump and removal (with sac being prevalent you can get removal when you want and need) for big baddies and will stop most players from attacking (seeing as how you have pretty weak cards here he can ultimately save your arse late game) also he can replace your Abrubt Decay and if you run into trouble you can always do the side board switcharoo the two (again IMO id keep atleast 2)
2b - Skirsdag High Priest: op as fauuuu~ but is often target to removal (speaking from personal knowledge) so I'd limit back on him but keep him main board
3: Lingering souls: gives you tokens and Sac material/chumps (differently main board material)
4: Farseek: gives you mana acceleration and brings you one step closer to Undying.
Of course these are just suggestions but as a whole i love your idea for this deck and do wish you well on it
So I've been working on my Jund Hydra deck (my orginal post got moved to the archives -->Archived Deck Link). Anyways this is what I'm at, I am at a loss so what would you suggest to do here
A) Hydra Beat Down: A hydra, Either Primordial and or Savageborn swings in for game
1a.) Hydra + Exava for same condition but faster
2a.) Hydra (Primordial In particular) + blood from Flesh // Blood
B) Beat Sticks (Haste): Pressure from early game with Strangleroot, Falkenrath, and Exava
1b) Other Beat stick and allies (to wreck face) are Olivia and Ghor-Clan Rampager
So here is the problem as to weather i should keep the 2 Somberwald Sage (she is utterly useless aside for the ramp for the hydra) or should i look into doing 1 of the 2 :
I too am a Kaalia player and i just want a ruleing on the damage when MoC comes in. . . . When MoC comes in and isn't blocked it reduces target opponents life total to 1 (that being known), but when damage collision comes in (because MoC wasn't blocked and that triggered from not being blocked and there life was reduced to 1) would Kaalia's damage be game, set, and match or is the damage from collision irrelevant?
Ok so i've been play testing this deck for ****s an giggles to see how something like this would fair and it's not that bad the decks core is Savageborn Hydra, Unflinching Courage, and Archangel of Thune. I wanna work on this as a whole though and see how it'll do once it's actually completed and i can run it at tournaments
This deck is based on whats coming out and was leaked though so i can't use anymore of the M-14 until i know whats out/coming in (the main reasoning why I don't have the check lands in here). But excluding M-13 whats should i be looking at putting in here and swaping out.
thanks 3drinks i really appreciate the insight that you had here for me and i made some cuts and remods. based off of what you said but there were some cards that i did keep based off what i felt was right, how i like to play, and what is in budget. However though I do like the help that you gave me and this is now what I'm working with where i have room for 36 lands:
so 3drinks, what would you suggest for my cuts here (not trying to be sarcastic and i really do appreciate all the help)? Your the one who plays/uses kaalia and set up the main primers that i used for her, and tweaked it to how I'd like it and my play style (Safe-Agro). So I'm curious as to what you think that i have going for me here, and what i should do for the cuts.
If I am to keep sire that leaves me with three cards to cut and would Merciless Eviction be a better option then DOJ or not. Cause I'm setting this deck to be 1v1 but i would try multi. with this (that'll be more so for practice)
so would it be safe to cut DoJ for a total of 35 (after cutting Sire) land or just run 34 Lands. Considering the amount of low cost removal burn and hand disruption that i have in the deck and having 40 life i could withstand 3-5 turns till i can get a creature and i have my mana rocks as well plus i have kaalia (and she will almost always have some protection on her)
(here is a link to youtube to kinda show you a little aobut Next Level Deck Building: Youtube link:
Anyways I was kinda inspired by this and decided that to better myself, and hopefully other players, to start a discussion board, for players of all ranges, to talk about there deck builds and building techniques. This is so everyone who can learn a few tricks here and there and help others along the way.
To make sure players get valuable information please answer at least one or more of the fallowing questions or add one that i don't have already posted bellow
- - ? ? The Big Questions for this thread ? ?- -
1: How do you decide your Deck archtype(s) (what draws you to it and what makes it effective as a deck)
2: What makes you put what in a deck
3: How is what you choose for your deck effective compared to other your other card options? Dose it syengerize well?
4: What makes you decide what you chose for sideboards
5: What makes a deck Competitive vs Casual and how to make a competitive deck
6 (Final question): What makes your choices effective (both side and main) Effective against other decks as well as what makes.
- - So without further a due lets get started with the deck building techniques- -
So heres the deck as a bant deck so are there any other ideas or anything that im missing here?
2 Master Biomancer
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Gyre Sage
3 Scavanging Ooze
3 Manaweft Sliver
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Archangel of Thune
4 Kalonian Hydra
:Spells 8:
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Azorius Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
:22 Lands:
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Forest
2 Island
1 Plains
2 Simic Guildgate
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Azorius Charm
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Silence
2 Loxdon Smitter
3 Savage Summoning
4 Essence Scatter
if i do decide to go the Bant-Rout what could it really offer me honestly speaking
I never really used blue, I'm really accustomed red and black based decks like Jund and Aristocrats. So how can i make it real use out of Blue
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Experiment One
4 Gyre Sage
2 Kalonian Hydra
3 Archangel of Thune
4 Savageborn Hydra
4 Savage Summoning
3 Boros Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
Enchantments:
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Primeval Bounty
Lands :
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
5 Forest
3 Planes
3 Mountain
1) would what would be the best option to cut for Gyre Sage if i decide to go with the sage/elf rout.
2) I don't know about cutting the courage would but would Scavenging Ooze be a relevant option or would something else would be a better option. Also would hunt the weak be a relevant form of removal (if i go this rout im gonna run 2 max)
:Core:
Archangel of Thune~ She's here to buff up Savaborn and Kalonia Hydra and give me life
Unflinching Courage~Gives lifelink and trample to my big baddies
Kalonia Hydra~ Counter increasing and fun
Savageborn Hydra~ Beat stick and main target for Unflinching Courage and Savage Summoning
Anyway i really wanna make this deck something fierce and effective so what would be great cards to add to the deck and or fix for the deck because as of now this is what im sitting on as the deck stands.
Please note: I'm trying to make the deck sit to where come full rotation in September it won't be affected to much if not at all when that comes but i will look into and read the suggestions that are available until Theros comes out.
So the deck....
4 Voracious Wurm
2 Feind Hunter
4 Centaur Healer
2 Kalonia Hydra
3 Archangel of Thun
4 Savageborn Hydra
Instant:
3 Boros Charm
4 Savage Summoning
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Warleaders Helix
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Primeval Bounty
Lands:
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Maze's End
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Boros Guildgate
Please make and have legitimate suggestions, opinions, and ideas for the deck no trolling please. Thanks peoples
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Blood Artist
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Mayor of Avabruck
3 High Priest of Penitence
2 Skrisdag High Priest
2 Bloodthrone Vampire
2 Farseek
2 Lingering Souls
3 Tragic Slip
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Immortal Servitude
Here are the resonings for the changes that i made to your listing:
1: this way with mayor if you have no moves you get tokens for either sac/chump block/ and it's overall synergistic with the human and works as an effective buff (excluding a few here but will ultimately make your weenies much more powerful)
2: the priest suit:
2a - High priest of Penitence: easy chump and removal (with sac being prevalent you can get removal when you want and need) for big baddies and will stop most players from attacking (seeing as how you have pretty weak cards here he can ultimately save your arse late game) also he can replace your Abrubt Decay and if you run into trouble you can always do the side board switcharoo the two (again IMO id keep atleast 2)
2b - Skirsdag High Priest: op as fauuuu~ but is often target to removal (speaking from personal knowledge) so I'd limit back on him but keep him main board
3: Lingering souls: gives you tokens and Sac material/chumps (differently main board material)
4: Farseek: gives you mana acceleration and brings you one step closer to Undying.
Of course these are just suggestions but as a whole i love your idea for this deck and do wish you well on it
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Primordial Hydra
3 Savageborn Hydra
3 Gyre Sage
2 Somberwald Sage
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Olivia Voldaren
:Enchantments - 2:
2 Rancor
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Flesh // Blood
3 Searing Spear
4 Farseek
:Land Base - 23:
2 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland Cemetery
3 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Ruric Thar, The Unbowed
1 Ground Seal
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Slaughter Games
2 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
3 Tragic Slip
Deck Win Conditions and Win Combos:
A) Hydra Beat Down: A hydra, Either Primordial and or Savageborn swings in for game
1a.) Hydra + Exava for same condition but faster
2a.) Hydra (Primordial In particular) + blood from Flesh // Blood
B) Beat Sticks (Haste): Pressure from early game with Strangleroot, Falkenrath, and Exava
1b) Other Beat stick and allies (to wreck face) are Olivia and Ghor-Clan Rampager
C) Burn Damage: with Bonfire (hopefully on the reduced cost), Searing Spear, Flesh // Blood
So here is the problem as to weather i should keep the 2 Somberwald Sage (she is utterly useless aside for the ramp for the hydra) or should i look into doing 1 of the 2 :
Cut the 2 somberwald sages and ...
1) and put in a 4th Searing Spear and a 4th Gyre Sage
2) and replace them with 2 Dreg Mangler.
also other personal opinions on the deck would be helpfull for things that i have yet to miss
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Godless Shrine
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Boros Garrison
1 Barren Moor
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Blood Crypt
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Graven Cairns
3 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Mountain
but should i be looking into the Lands like the:
- pain lands (Battlefield Forge, Cave of Koilos, Sulfurous Springs)
- fetching Lands (Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats,)
- defensive lands (Forbidding Castle, Spawning Pool, Ghitu Encampment)
or some other lands that i haven't come accrosed and or found in my search for things for this deck ( in this case Lands )
2 Blood Scrivener
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Disiple of Bolas
2 Bloodgift Demon
2 Blood Barron Vizkopa
3 Sire of Insanity
2 Angel of Serenity
1 Griselbrand
4 Faithless Looting
4 Unburial Rites
4 searing Spears
2 Ultimate Price
3 Lingering Souls
1 Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded
2 Sorin, Lord of Innstrad
23 Lands (not posting yet)
4 Savageborn Hydra
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Archangel of Thune
3 Gyre Sage
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Elvish Mystic
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Unflinching Courage
2 Angelic Accord
Spell 7
3 Boros Charm
4 Savage Summoning
lands 23
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Grounds
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Gavony Township
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
This deck is based on whats coming out and was leaked though so i can't use anymore of the M-14 until i know whats out/coming in (the main reasoning why I don't have the check lands in here). But excluding M-13 whats should i be looking at putting in here and swaping out.
1 Blinding Angel
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Aurelia, The Warleader
1 Karmic Guide
1 Angel of Dispair
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Lord of the Void
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Stoneforge Mystic
Instant 9
1 Terminate
1 Mortify
1 Agonizing Demise
1 Orzhov Charm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Boros Charm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Cataclysm
1 Wrath of God
1 Dreadbore
1 Vindicate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Faithless Looting
1 Sign in Blood
1 Night's Whisper
1 Blightning
1 Despise
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Rakdos's Returns
1 Thoughtseize
Enchantments 3:
1 Animate Dead
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Phyrexian Arena
Artifacts 11:
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sunforger
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Boros Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Sol Ring
1 Quicksilver Amulet
Planeswalkers 3:
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Kight-Errant
1 Liliana Vess
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Godless Shrine
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Boros Garrison
1 Barren Moor
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Fetid Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Blood Crypt
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Graven Cairns
3 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Mountain
If I am to keep sire that leaves me with three cards to cut and would Merciless Eviction be a better option then DOJ or not. Cause I'm setting this deck to be 1v1 but i would try multi. with this (that'll be more so for practice)