Is anyone else somewhat perterbed that the new mechanic is only in abzan colours? i mean, blue and red are THE artifact colours, with white in a semi-distant second, and they don't get fabricate at all.
this seems like a major fail on the part of design, and attributes heavily to why blue is so weak in limited.
I don't need to look up what they are played in, I know, honestly. I own literally 30 plus complete Modern decks, good to go, no budget- rent a tournament. They get some play in the 3 color decks, especially those running discard, the odd combo deck on top, hatebears too. I own all of those decks. I also own decks where they don't feature and never would- I have a couple of playsets worth of them tops- compared to fetches and shocks in those Modern decks its pretty small potatoes. I am sure there will be some play, but no where near the slam-dunk interest when they put fetches into KTK. All relative of course, but I would have expected more major impact/standout cards for Legacy and Modern than we have seen to date was my original statement's intent, that does not mean we have had none, it means we have less than I expected.
for someone that owns 30+ non-budget tournament ready modern decks you really don't understand the format if you think that fast lands aren't as important as shocks and fetches.
fast lands have been played in modern since they became available in SOM. they've gained more and more popularity as having painless duals on turns 1 and 2 have become more and more important in the format.
the return of burn to tier 1 has made that even more important. jund doesn't pay 5 life for a turn 1 thoughtseize as much anymore now that they're playing more cliffs and gorges. grixis has been playing shores since day 1 and it can't wait to replace sulfur falls with spirebluff canal. elves, hatebears, rally and abzan all rely on thicket.
fast lands are integral to modern, and there are several decks that will get a lot better because of fast lands.
This isn't the thread for 'i want X reprinted'. It's for things actually in Origins.
The prison warden isn't Standard playable unless he's at least 5/5, and the bar is much higher in Modern where he has no protection from Path to Exile or Go For The Throat.
He's clearly not going to be an 8/8, but I don't think he'd be even close to playable with those stats except as a fun one-of in FNM-level decks.
Liliana is harder to judge. She's amazing once flipped, probably her back side is worth 4 mana (and it comes with a free Zombie), but she requires a bit of work to get out. Realistically I only see her being tried with Chord of Calling and I don't see her being widely played.
Really? You are being ridiculous. "A 5 mana 8/8 with flash wouldn't be anywhere near playable in Modern because it dies to instant-speed non damage/toughness-based non-cost-based removal" is basically what you are saying. There are only 2 removal spells that even see Modern play that are instant-speed and don't depend on damage, toughness, or CMC (Path to Exile and Terminate [the most common removal spells in Modenr are still Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay). And saying that you wouldn't play a 5 mana 8/8 with flash and relevant abilities because it dies to Terminate and Path is like refusing to play Loxodon Smiter because it dies to Doom Blade. Even as a 5/5 with flash and relevant text he would be perfectly reasonable to try out in WUR Flash. It would then be a card that could block and kill basically any ground creature in Modern at instant speed and survive while at the same time keeping other creatures exiled. That sounds good to me. It almost certainly won't be a 5/5, but if it was I would definitely play it in Modern.
Surrak Dragonclaw isn't much worse than an 8/8 flash (being 6/6 flash; the gap between 6/6 and 8/8 is very small), has useful abilities, and is not Standard quality or even particularly close. The weaker Retaliate effect is not a powerful ability unless you have enough of a life cushion to eat at least one, preferably two hits from creatures on turn 5, which is almost never true in Modern.
Surrak is in the wrong colors. If he was monoblue I am sure he would see more play, just like how an 5 mana 8/8 with flash in monowhite would see Modern play.
This. Surrak's unplayability is entirely in relation to his colour pie. any colour combination other than UGX and he would have been playable.
What? why is this card even being discussed in the modern format space?
removal that leaves behind a threat is bad. a 2/2 body is a threat in modern.
a manifested card can't be countered either, so in the space where you give them a quality creature and take away your chance to react to it properly, it just makes the card worse. this is a really really bad pongify.
This is obscene. I've been playtesting the new standard as they become released with proxies in my playgroup and RWB build with Rabblemaster and that stupid Khan was already oppressive as **** and borderline improbable to beat unless you got a nut draw. This charm sure obscene. Absolutely ridiculous. "Did you draw that sorcery speed answer? Let me see real quick." Instant speed duress, even for 3, is ridiculous and feels very unfair.
RWB has also had more cards spoiled on average than the other colour combinations. with more cards revealed, it has a higher chance of having stronger cards revealed.
You mean they're two different mechanics, whose only similarity is that they have to do with creatures and attacking.
its still way farther apart than storm and prowess.
Prowess is comparable to storm in the fashions of tendrils and grapeshot. you play more spells to increase your damage to win the game. its different from most other storm cards.
But they're very different in their real world application. Storm is clearly a critical mass combo mechanic, whereas prowess is clearly designed as a tempo-aggro mechanic.
They'll undoubtedly see Standard play but it won't be in the 4-of fashion that we're used to seeing, especially in three color decks. People aren't going to play 12 fetchlands in a deck just to shuffle with Courser of Kruphix or for Delve costs, unless a Delve card is busted. So they're guaranteed to see SOME play but I think some folks overestimate the effect fetches will have on a lower power format (Standard). We're certainly not in the era of Plated Geopede and Steppe Lynx where you play ridiculous amounts of fetches. Fetchlands might actually be used more like duals than the Zendikar fetches were, when mono-red ran 4 Scalding Tarn and 4 Arid Mesa (4 of all red fetches) for Landfall. Additionally, there's a lot of good mana fixing that will be in Standard so you need to make room for trilands, scrylands, painlands, Mana Confluence, and then still have room for fetchlands AND the basics that you're fetching.
Price-wise, they're as high as they're going to be for a while. $20-25 is crazy for rare lands in a big fall set that'll probably sell like crazy. The Zendikar ones were never printed before and ran $8-15 a month or two after release.
modern was also not currently a format and legacy was experiencing a fairly weak period. modern is a format, legacy is a thing again, and the game is more popular than it's ever been. $20-25 is realistic.
Green decks will abuse fetches no matter what. the interaction with courser is too good regardless of shuffling away wanted cards. the life gain negating the life loss has been good enough to make courser a thing in modern and that won't change here. with urborg existing in the format and plenty of excellent mana dorks, there is no reason to not play fetch lands in a green based deck. other colour combos may only want to play 4, but i can see courser decks, especially GB courser decks shaving temples to play 6-8 fetches instead.
3 counters on animar, spellskite + willbender + cloudstone curio. draw the deck.
Maybe I'm dumb, but this doesn't seem to do anything but give you a +X/+X sized Animar, Soul of Elements. How are your morphs 4 power to draw your deck?
yeah, was a brain fart. it's still common to use morph creatures to make a massive animar. there will be a way to do this with morph creatures, however, with some sort of anthem effect and/or ixidor.
T1 Elvish Mystic, T2 morph this guy, T3 flip it, tap it for mana and play 6 drop.
blocks better than Caryatid in the form of dealing damage and can attack. Totally dependant on the cards yet to be revealed.
this.
someone at wotc said in an article this week that they want to see what standard is like with a lack of efficient removal spells, so i think caryatid is going to become less necessary. Polukranos and drown in sorrow still present a problem for this card, but the explosive t3 plays combined with mystic are definitely worth it. being able to do the same thin on t3 as t1 mystic t2 caryatid + mystic without playing the second mystic and having slightly better colouring is powerful.
i mean, play 1 less card, potentially generate RUGGGG instead of XGGGGG, and have 1 more power in play is definitely better.
this seems like a major fail on the part of design, and attributes heavily to why blue is so weak in limited.
for someone that owns 30+ non-budget tournament ready modern decks you really don't understand the format if you think that fast lands aren't as important as shocks and fetches.
fast lands have been played in modern since they became available in SOM. they've gained more and more popularity as having painless duals on turns 1 and 2 have become more and more important in the format.
the return of burn to tier 1 has made that even more important. jund doesn't pay 5 life for a turn 1 thoughtseize as much anymore now that they're playing more cliffs and gorges. grixis has been playing shores since day 1 and it can't wait to replace sulfur falls with spirebluff canal. elves, hatebears, rally and abzan all rely on thicket.
fast lands are integral to modern, and there are several decks that will get a lot better because of fast lands.
This. Surrak's unplayability is entirely in relation to his colour pie. any colour combination other than UGX and he would have been playable.
removal that leaves behind a threat is bad. a 2/2 body is a threat in modern.
a manifested card can't be countered either, so in the space where you give them a quality creature and take away your chance to react to it properly, it just makes the card worse. this is a really really bad pongify.
that is not a tarn by any means. its a cracked mountain with lava flowing. not a tarn.
RWB has also had more cards spoiled on average than the other colour combinations. with more cards revealed, it has a higher chance of having stronger cards revealed.
there is no playable instant speed duress.
this card will see play on that alone.
card is good.
its still way farther apart than storm and prowess.
Prowess is comparable to storm in the fashions of tendrils and grapeshot. you play more spells to increase your damage to win the game. its different from most other storm cards.
But they're very different in their real world application. Storm is clearly a critical mass combo mechanic, whereas prowess is clearly designed as a tempo-aggro mechanic.
modern was also not currently a format and legacy was experiencing a fairly weak period. modern is a format, legacy is a thing again, and the game is more popular than it's ever been. $20-25 is realistic.
Green decks will abuse fetches no matter what. the interaction with courser is too good regardless of shuffling away wanted cards. the life gain negating the life loss has been good enough to make courser a thing in modern and that won't change here. with urborg existing in the format and plenty of excellent mana dorks, there is no reason to not play fetch lands in a green based deck. other colour combos may only want to play 4, but i can see courser decks, especially GB courser decks shaving temples to play 6-8 fetches instead.
yeah, was a brain fart. it's still common to use morph creatures to make a massive animar. there will be a way to do this with morph creatures, however, with some sort of anthem effect and/or ixidor.
3 counters on animar, spellskite + willbender + cloudstone curio. draw the deck.
this.
someone at wotc said in an article this week that they want to see what standard is like with a lack of efficient removal spells, so i think caryatid is going to become less necessary. Polukranos and drown in sorrow still present a problem for this card, but the explosive t3 plays combined with mystic are definitely worth it. being able to do the same thin on t3 as t1 mystic t2 caryatid + mystic without playing the second mystic and having slightly better colouring is powerful.
i mean, play 1 less card, potentially generate RUGGGG instead of XGGGGG, and have 1 more power in play is definitely better.
i skimmed the article and the dragon that taunts sarkhan in the article is definitely bolas.
hence why i find it so funny that people want to jump on saying it's ugin.
bolas is the one that controlled sarkhan and that looks identical to the most recent art for bolas.