I think it is much better to splash blue for the blue Ninjas (I like your BU Ninjas deck name though ;)) , however I think 4x Ninja of the Deep Hours is a must here, he is the best Ninja around but I have to admit it's tough to remove cards from the decklist.
I think the BU may have a problem on the enablers side, Ravenous Rats and Chittering Rats are not going to stop opponents from blocking and killing them, unlike say Typhoid Rats. So although these 2 rats has a useful ETB ability, their lack of evasion means we have issues trying to Ninjutsu in and "recycle" their ETB again. In my mono-black list, I used Infiltration Lens to deter opponents from blocking them in order to Ninjutsu in, but I have to say it is a bit cumbersome and we don't always have Lens in play.
I noticed there is 4x Liliana of the Veil and 4x Geth's Verdict to clear the path for the rats to attack unblocked, and the rats ETB does slow down the opponent, so in your combo heavy meta it might just work. The enablers part may need some fine-tuning though, and since you are playing a fair amount of Faeries, the deck might have to move away from the Rats tribal theme in order to be more effective. As such, I took out a few rats. Here's my idea of a decklist based on your meta:
I replaced some Mana Leak with Dissipate because I feel most of the time you should be casting Ravenous Rats, EOT Spellsutter Sprite or a Ninjutsu via Ninja of the Deep Hours on 2 lands. So maybe it is worth testing a hard counter instead of conditional counters.
I really like what you did in there I will replace the dissipates for dissolves (since I already have the set). I will test it out on the week, and use it this very saturday on GPT and see how it goes, thank you :D. If anyone has more feedback, I welcome it
My metagame environment is either control (american, esper, etc) or combo (Melira pod, Splinter Kikki, Living End), so I guess that a lot of hand disrupt would work well. This is my current decklist (in monoblack, added rats for the lulz and control)
Needs less creatures and moar spells
After all, Pack Rat can convert any card into a rat, just build around it.
Throw 2 Whip of Erebos, 4 Thoughtseize and maybe some Pharika's Cure, and you are well armed against aggro, midrange, and everything can convert into a rat
Needs less creatures and moar spells
After all, Pack Rat can convert any card into a rat, just build around it.
Throw 2 Whip of Erebos, 4 Thoughtseize and maybe some Pharika's Cure, and you are well armed against aggro, midrange, and everything can convert into a rat
We're talking about a 7 mana verdict. If you're relying on it to kill aggro, you are dead 2-3 turns ago, only posibility I see for it is playing some white devotion and have one free blue mana, and that all is already complex. Lifelink is what kills aggro eventually, as well as killing their creatures slowly (Triton Tactics and first strike buffs work well for the cause... Swift Justice anyone?).
What are your thoughts on Give/Take? Likewise, Murder Investigation might be worth mentioning. If they want to take out your fat heroic creature/board wipe, they'll be left with a smattering of soldier tokens. Mending Touch is probably the better sideboard option to Supreme Verdict. The targeting synergizes with heroic triggers, and lets us save our most enchanted creature.
Give/Take is a kind of slow card. I can see it on midrange strategies, but not aggro. If it were at instant speed, it would be a "must have", so you could trade your +1/+1 counters for card advantage, but sadly it is not.
Murder Investigation seems interesting indeed, and would synergyze well in an auras-type strategy. For control, dealing on with 4-8 1/1 tokens after they just verdicted is hard enough, so I would give it a chance and see how it performs before judging it Maybe is a better SB than Daxos or regeneration abilities, but let's see first.
I played against Esper Control (2-1), Orzhov Midrange (2-0), Selesnya Aggro (2-0), and Boros Aggro (0-2)
My thoughts/observations on specific cards:
Hopeful Eidolon: Surprisingly useful as a turn 1 play. Slammed Selesnya with this on turn 1, followed by double Ethereal Armor on turn 2.
Triton Tactics: I was never sad to see this card. In fact, I wish I had more copies of these in the sideboard against Boros.
Rootborn Defenses: Thinking of cutting these, as they were just dud cards. I'm more confident with just playing smarter and not overextending than belching my hand onto the field and hoping to have one of these for the inevitable Supreme Verdict.
Aqueous Form: There was only one in the maindeck, but it won me every game it showed up in. Might keep it as a 1-of, though - I want the Gridlock to become the 4th Ethereal Armor.
Gift of Orzhova: Sensational out of the board. This card broke games open.
Fabled Hero: Solid, as expected. A 2/2 double strike on turn 3 is plenty scary, and demands an answer. I was not afraid to tap out for one of these; if I got to untap with it, things got real.
Gonna bring this to FNM again tomorrow. Such a blast to play!
Congrats man I really like what you built out there. I agree about 4 Ethereal Armors, the t2 plays with eidolon are just insane, almost gg (because the life swing is nasty enough). Fiendslayer Paladin would be the one I'd have priority to add in the deck, it is always worth it, since the included lifelink and first strike, I never saw this one as a dead draw (even if opponent wasn't playing red or black). I will update the primer with the results seen in here too, I can imagine how the battles were already, and I hope you get 4-0 tomorrow
Well, today i will try this deck on local shop tournament and tomorrow i'll write about results and impressions.
I'm playing a UW Heroic and i want to play it more budget as possible, i started from Theros Event Deck (25€) and added more or less 8€.
By firsts tests matches i see UW version is more solid than RW because we can play more flying creatures and Aqueous form.
I'm going playing this list today:
Yes, I also saw the article; I may dare to say that this person would have been inspired of what we made in here list just looks kind of the same as many others here.
If this one manages to get good tournament results, I can already see many cards inflating price (more likely Battlewise Hoplite and Fabled Hero)
Good luck with your FNM, we expect a 3-1 or 4-0 from this deck it seems pretty solid and consistent indeed
Hey Aoi, it's really cool to see someone trying to develop this deck. I saw (what I figured is) your updated version in the W/x thread and I have to say it looks pretty sweet.
I've been running something very much like this in the past weeks, making a bunch of changes that haven't always been for the best.
Thank you so much :), indeed, the version in the primer is the most updated, and the one with best results up by now. I will change it in a little while, so this thread is updated too, thanks to remind it to me
I see the deck you have is pretty nice, almost the same as mine, lol. I'd like to see the sideboard, there is where problems come depending local metagame.
a) Have you tested Heliod vs Underworld Connections? Haven't really had time to test UC, but Heliod has proven not too shabby for me in those games that stretch.
b) How's Nighthowler working for you? Don't you find it a "win more" card?
c) Have you tried splashing other colors? I haven't really tried because it demands more time than I can currently put in, but the prospect of having access to Lotleth Troll, Golgari Charm/Selesnya Charm and possibly Warriors' Lesson looks tempting when splashing G.
a) I haven't tested Heliod yet, but UC is pretty awesome against midrange and control, and since my local meta sees a lot of those decks (and you easily win against aggro anyway), that's why I got one in mainboard. Heliod would be awesome against control (only if they don't have Detention Sphere, I guess is worth the try, and vigilance X/X heroic creatures doesn't sound half bad either.
b) It is working nice indeed, allows me to win faster with stronger swings, something you desire on this deck, because prolonging won't be any good. But that Heliod seems promising, after all, I SB Nighthowler against control
c)Only card that would interest me enough to splash another color is Unflinching Courage, but right now the deck seems to have everything it needs so, although it would be pretty viable to make a WBG heroic, I will personally stick up with WB for consistency, but a build using Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker would be really promising too.
And about the PW issue... yes, Hero's Downfall fits really nice on the deck. PW barely are a menace, but if they manage to be, better to be prepared, because this is the real answer against them
In play testing my azorius list looses 24/25 to sligh red or all in red. It does not fair much better against rdw. How ever its about 60 percent agaimst devotion red or big red.
I managed another 1st place in monday night standard with red. My wife piloted the azorius heroic to her 1st top 8. She managed to avoid rdw and air.
In conclusion this deck does well against midrange and control. Fast agrro just outraces it.
What's your current decklist? Maybe we can help you to tune it a little. Easier to do because you say your metagame is swarmed with red. Fiendslayer Paladin would be a priority addition to it. Even having 3 Gift of Orzhova main can be all the difference, they really have problems with flying lifelink dudes until they can put the dragon.
[COLOR=black][COLOR=blue]Seems like the Legendary Trio for Pokemon X and Y have been leaked on YouTube, Volcanion is a Fire/Water Type that's known in the Kalos Pokedex as the Lava Dome Pokemon just like Heatran from Gen IV. Hoopa the 2nd of the Legendary Trio is Psychic/Fairy Type although it's design looks okay for the most part, and last is Diance which people are saying is a Fairy/Rock Type which doesn't look too bad. [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]I've been waiting since pokemon red for a Fire/Water type; I always thought it would be pretty cool a weird combination like that... and it totally looks like shinto god O__o Thanks Arceus!!! [/COLOR]
Hello all, I'm hoping over from Razerblazes Breaking forms thread. I've been playing Izzet Spellheart Augury since rotation and looking to take a break for a bit. Here's the W/U heroic I came up with:
Guildgates will be replaced with Fountains when they get here, but unfortunately that won't be in time for FNM tomorrow. Mostly I need help with the sideboard. I know Rootborn Defenses isn't that great in this deck, but it's the only card W/U gets that can dodge a verdict.
Glad to see someone actually playing Bioshift, I really love the combat tricks on that card The deck seems pretty solid and balanced, and the sideboard is what I expect for the current metagame, I would only remove the Aqueous, Hidden and 1 Bioshift for three Mizzium Skin, they are useful against heavy removal decks. Good luck in your FNM
Get the best of both W/U and W/R while sacrificing a bit of consistency with your mana base. I'm thinking Phalanx Leader and Fabled Hero probably need to be dropped entirely, since they're the only double colored mana cards in the list, then you could even up the mana base a bit more. Also not sure if maybe Titan's Strength would be better mainboarded over God's Willing. Thoughts?
I would put Titan's Strength on mainboard, because first match you want to win at godspeed, and that card is intended for it. Phalanx Leader is entirely droppable, you don't expect double-white mana on turn two, but you can have it on turn three, so Fabled Hero seems ok and in the curve, I would not remove him
BTW, I prefer Martial Glory over Coordinated Assault, you can buff a lot a single creature, or prevent one from dying and another to hit hard, at LOWER PRICE! But that's my opinion
NOTE: As they say above, protection doesn't prevent your creatures to be killed. Prevention only helps for three things:
1.- It can't be the TARGET of spells or abilities of that color.
2.- It can't be BLOCKED by creatures of that color.
3.- It can't receive DAMAGE from a source of that color.
So, while it can't prevent your creatures of dying from Supreme Verdict, it can help to prevent your creatures of dying from Anger of the Gods, because it won't deal damage to them.
I just would like some old-school tribalistic block, certainly Onslaught had some of the best tribal-support out there, and for very popular archetypes: Elves, goblins, zombies, clerics, soldiers, birds, dragons, beasts... even illusions, lol. And characters like Ixidor, Kamahl, Phage, Akroma, which are pretty representative of MTG... I would really love a return to that; and some tribe-matter reprints from that set would be nice for modern too
Hidden Strings and Something evasive for the cipher are a must in any build running blue. Might even be worth it to splash blue in any build not running blue. Hidden strings allows this to explode on turn 2.
That said I run triton tactics against RDW and AIR because it just shuts them down.
Yep I see it is worth it to splash blue if you don't have better cards to run on your colors. American heroics is something to be considered, and Bant heroic can be a reality too, having Unflinching Courage and Hidden Strings on the same deck seems pretty nasty indeed
And yes, what I love about Triton Tactics is that RDW automatically turns into RDL
I really like what you did in there I will replace the dissipates for dissolves (since I already have the set). I will test it out on the week, and use it this very saturday on GPT and see how it goes, thank you :D. If anyone has more feedback, I welcome it
My metagame environment is either control (american, esper, etc) or combo (Melira pod, Splinter Kikki, Living End), so I guess that a lot of hand disrupt would work well. This is my current decklist (in monoblack, added rats for the lulz and control)
18 Swamp
1 Swarmyard
3 Mutavault
Creatures (25):
2 Typhoid Rats
4 Skullsnatcher
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Chittering Rats
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Skull Collector
3 Throat Slitter
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Undying Evil
2 Thoughtseize
Enchantments(2):
2 Whip of Erebos
Planeswalkers(3)
4 Liliana of the Veil
What would be better? To try and improve it in monoblack, or splash blue for the other ninjas?
Maybe something like this?
7 Swamp
6 Island
4 Watery Grave
4 Secluded Glen
1 Swarmyard
Creatures (26):
4 Nightshade Stinger
4 Spellstrutter Sprite
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Chittering Rats
2 Throat Slitter
2 Ninja of the Deep Hour
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Thoughtseize
4 Mana Leak
Planeswalkers(3)
4 Liliana of the Veil
If only Barter in Blood were still legal
Needs less creatures and moar spells
After all, Pack Rat can convert any card into a rat, just build around it.
Throw 2 Whip of Erebos, 4 Thoughtseize and maybe some Pharika's Cure, and you are well armed against aggro, midrange, and everything can convert into a rat
25 Swamp
Creatures(13)
4 Pack Rat
4 Ogre Slumlord
2 Mogis's Maurader
2 Crypt Ghast
1 Abhorrent Overlord
4 Thoughtseize
4 Doomblade
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Dark Prophecy
2 Underworld Connections
Planeswalkers(2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Needs less creatures and moar spells
After all, Pack Rat can convert any card into a rat, just build around it.
Throw 2 Whip of Erebos, 4 Thoughtseize and maybe some Pharika's Cure, and you are well armed against aggro, midrange, and everything can convert into a rat
We're talking about a 7 mana verdict. If you're relying on it to kill aggro, you are dead 2-3 turns ago, only posibility I see for it is playing some white devotion and have one free blue mana, and that all is already complex. Lifelink is what kills aggro eventually, as well as killing their creatures slowly (Triton Tactics and first strike buffs work well for the cause... Swift Justice anyone?).
Give/Take is a kind of slow card. I can see it on midrange strategies, but not aggro. If it were at instant speed, it would be a "must have", so you could trade your +1/+1 counters for card advantage, but sadly it is not.
Murder Investigation seems interesting indeed, and would synergyze well in an auras-type strategy. For control, dealing on with 4-8 1/1 tokens after they just verdicted is hard enough, so I would give it a chance and see how it performs before judging it Maybe is a better SB than Daxos or regeneration abilities, but let's see first.
Congrats man I really like what you built out there. I agree about 4 Ethereal Armors, the t2 plays with eidolon are just insane, almost gg (because the life swing is nasty enough). Fiendslayer Paladin would be the one I'd have priority to add in the deck, it is always worth it, since the included lifelink and first strike, I never saw this one as a dead draw (even if opponent wasn't playing red or black). I will update the primer with the results seen in here too, I can imagine how the battles were already, and I hope you get 4-0 tomorrow
Yes, I also saw the article; I may dare to say that this person would have been inspired of what we made in here list just looks kind of the same as many others here.
If this one manages to get good tournament results, I can already see many cards inflating price (more likely Battlewise Hoplite and Fabled Hero)
Good luck with your FNM, we expect a 3-1 or 4-0 from this deck it seems pretty solid and consistent indeed
Thank you so much :), indeed, the version in the primer is the most updated, and the one with best results up by now. I will change it in a little while, so this thread is updated too, thanks to remind it to me
I see the deck you have is pretty nice, almost the same as mine, lol. I'd like to see the sideboard, there is where problems come depending local metagame.
a) I haven't tested Heliod yet, but UC is pretty awesome against midrange and control, and since my local meta sees a lot of those decks (and you easily win against aggro anyway), that's why I got one in mainboard. Heliod would be awesome against control (only if they don't have Detention Sphere, I guess is worth the try, and vigilance X/X heroic creatures doesn't sound half bad either.
b) It is working nice indeed, allows me to win faster with stronger swings, something you desire on this deck, because prolonging won't be any good. But that Heliod seems promising, after all, I SB Nighthowler against control
c)Only card that would interest me enough to splash another color is Unflinching Courage, but right now the deck seems to have everything it needs so, although it would be pretty viable to make a WBG heroic, I will personally stick up with WB for consistency, but a build using Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker would be really promising too.
And about the PW issue... yes, Hero's Downfall fits really nice on the deck. PW barely are a menace, but if they manage to be, better to be prepared, because this is the real answer against them
What's your current decklist? Maybe we can help you to tune it a little. Easier to do because you say your metagame is swarmed with red. Fiendslayer Paladin would be a priority addition to it. Even having 3 Gift of Orzhova main can be all the difference, they really have problems with flying lifelink dudes until they can put the dragon.
[COLOR="Green"]I've been waiting since pokemon red for a Fire/Water type; I always thought it would be pretty cool a weird combination like that... and it totally looks like shinto god O__o Thanks Arceus!!! [/COLOR]
Glad to see someone actually playing Bioshift, I really love the combat tricks on that card The deck seems pretty solid and balanced, and the sideboard is what I expect for the current metagame, I would only remove the Aqueous, Hidden and 1 Bioshift for three Mizzium Skin, they are useful against heavy removal decks. Good luck in your FNM
I would put Titan's Strength on mainboard, because first match you want to win at godspeed, and that card is intended for it.
Phalanx Leader is entirely droppable, you don't expect double-white mana on turn two, but you can have it on turn three, so Fabled Hero seems ok and in the curve, I would not remove him
BTW, I prefer Martial Glory over Coordinated Assault, you can buff a lot a single creature, or prevent one from dying and another to hit hard, at LOWER PRICE! But that's my opinion
NOTE: As they say above, protection doesn't prevent your creatures to be killed. Prevention only helps for three things:
1.- It can't be the TARGET of spells or abilities of that color.
2.- It can't be BLOCKED by creatures of that color.
3.- It can't receive DAMAGE from a source of that color.
So, while it can't prevent your creatures of dying from Supreme Verdict, it can help to prevent your creatures of dying from Anger of the Gods, because it won't deal damage to them.
Yep I see it is worth it to splash blue if you don't have better cards to run on your colors. American heroics is something to be considered, and Bant heroic can be a reality too, having Unflinching Courage and Hidden Strings on the same deck seems pretty nasty indeed
And yes, what I love about Triton Tactics is that RDW automatically turns into RDL