Preach it, redbro! Auto 4-of in every red deck, from here to the end of time.
But seriously if Loyalist was a 2/1 then this is another story altogether. But its a 1/1 and needs dudes and pump spells to be good. Why dilute your deck? Just play a better threat for the mana.
Bant may want him, but Naya would take Zhur-Taa druid over the sliver. That is once avacyns pilgrim and arbor elf rotate. Elvish mystic is in the format too. I think he has the most chance of seeing play in a bant control/midrange list as a farseek replacement.
Ummm.... I want in. Totally never looked anywhere else but the R/x subforum. However, this seems like an acceptable place to waste time as well. Or wherever else FoS may go. Who doesn't like dick jokes!?
Alright so I made those changes I spoke of. In SB dropped Thundermaw in favor of Zealous. Put a KWR in the SB, and dropped Cackler in favor of BTE. Plus a few minor tweaks. Long story short went 3-0 tonight and Zealous over performed in the first two rounds.
Heres the matchups:
Round 1 - 4-Color Simic Goodstuff (G/U/b/w) (2-0)
Basically a bant shell that had Vraska, Tamiyo, Unexpected Results, and Urban Evolutionm, and Elderscale Wurm.
Game 1 - On play, Noble, into Boar, into Reckoner. He just durdled with Unexpected Results and Urban Evolution. Didn't have answers for the clock I set so he scooped. W
Game 2 -
Noble into, Zealot, into Boar, then stuck at 3 lands. He was able to get down Tamiyo and Vraska to stabilize. Still at three lands was able to grind him to 5. He had played 2 Urban Evolutions by this time and was at 9 land, and dropped an Elderscale Wurm (his only creature at the time) to keep his life at 7. Next turn got the 4th land to put down hellrider but couldn't attack into the wurm. Next turn he attacked to drop me to 13, tap down hellrider and pass. Drew Zealous, then passed. He drops me to 6, passes. Then I drew a mountain for the fifth land, put down zealous and stole the wurm for the win. W
Round 2 - UWR Reckoner (2-1)
Game 1 - On draw, curved nicely but he had early answers to my threats got him down to 6 before the first revelation and I scooped. L
Game 2 - Noble, into Zealot, no turn three play, into Hound. He drops reckoner. Next turn I get zealous out to take the reckoner and swing through.
Got him down to 5 and finished off with two spears. W
No SB changes
Game 3 - Fought through two revelations for X=3 each. Made a major misplay. Just before the second revelation he was at 4 with no creatures on his side. I had a reckoner and 5 land. I drew zealous conscripts and just said take my own land. I should have taken his land so the revelation could only be casted for X=2, as he waited to cast it until after declare blockers step. After that he got back up to 6, killed my zealous, and got a reckoner of his own. I finished him off with a topdeck hellrider. W
Round 3 - 4C Midrange (G/R/w/b) (2-1)
Game 1 - Lost to Aurelia, the Warleader, as she had a Thragtusk, and beast token along her side. Swing for 22? gg. L
Game 2 - He flooded, I curved, pretty straight forward.
SB -4 Stromkirk Noble +2 Traitorous +2 Domri
Game 3 - Got him down to one with me having a BTE and Hound. He had reckoner and then dropped a Huntmaster to get back to 3 and get a chump blocker. Passes to me. I draw flinthoof play him and pass. He passes back to flip huntmaster, and pings BTE. I topdeck Brimstone for the win he shows me the resto he was holding onto as even blinking ravager cant save him. W
For this tournament, Zealous Conscripts and Brimstone were ALL-STARS. Zealous definately proved its worth over Thundermaw in this meta.
With all the topdecking I was forced to do, drawing a tap land would be devastating, so I don't think we can afford to run any number of gates at this time. I have been toying with the idea like Fate has to add it. I just can't bring myself to do it, and for the time being I will keep the KWR in the sb to avoid awkward lands in game 1.
I am feeling really good about this build, as I feel I can win most of my matchups right now (at least in my meta). That is except for that redonk UG Delver list that won the PTQ I went to. Funny, he felt that Naya aggro and R/g Aggro were his worst matchups.
OK going to WNM tonight. Been reflecting on my losses this past Saturday and one thing dawned on me. Why am I not playing Brimstone Volley. I am usually having to suicide creatures to smash damage through. Plus the added reach of reckoner. When they block my reckoner just redirect the damage to the face, trigger morbid, and tack on 5. I'd like to add it as a 2-of in my deck and test it out tonight. Also while I love Thundermaw feels a little out of place in the deck. It's an awesome topdeck however, Zealous Conscipts, when played correctly, should net more than 5 damage. I will post an updated decklist later today, and I will try to do a tourney report afterwards.
I remember seeing some builds around 3 months ago going the R/u route. They were going just for the Burn at the Stake combo as early as possible with Goblin Electromancer and Krenko's Command. Battle hymn definately has a place in that build.
[CARD]
Rally the Peasants[/CARD] is one I wanted to make work badly with Turbo Gruul and the like. Could just go naya with it to get Boros Charm and Thalia also. Could also be the worst idea ever? Too bad Rally isnt 2R with 2W as the flashback cost.
Fate, with kessig in the side. What matchups do you find yourself bringing them in for? Are the just support to be able to cast the Conscripts on curve?
So i have been running a very similar list to yours Fate. MB differences for me are -2 Pillars +2 Hounds, -4 BTE +4 Rakdos Cackler, and -1 Temple Garden +1 Kessig Wolf Run
Been playing this deck for the past 2 months at least. I was running 3 Temple gardens before like you aswell up until last week. I had just way to many awkward hands with 2 or three temple gardens and couldn't get crucial threats down on curve. How have you been faring. I finally cut one for a KWR. And played an 8 round PTQ yesterday. Really wished I was running one KWR for same reasons I cut the Temple Garden. And since Reanimator was running rampant definately some Graveyard hate. I would cut the 2 mizzium mortars as I never really wanted to bring them in. The pillars, flames, and act were enough burn for aggro, and like you I usually wanted to go 'faster' as a sideboard strategy and mortars isnt conducive to that playstyle. Mortars deals with 1 Thrag but the hate deals with thrag, aos, the life, and the beast token. The only fear would be that once they see your hate, they side out the rites and just gor midrange, as both popular reanimator styles can do. But having that hate forces them to beat you fairly and the cost of threat density on your side.
As for the PTQ the deck performed as it should. It was my first big tournament (larger than 3 rounds/40 people) as 136 came out. So going into Round 8 at 5-2 with a slight chance at Top 8 with win. I mulled to 5 game one, then mulled to 6 game 2. Both were questionable keeps that earlier in the day would have mulled for sure but kept due to fatigue and excitement at the prospect of first Top 8. 5-3 all day, 24th. Losses were Junk rites, Human Reanimator, and Jund Aggro (last round). Wins were Bant Midrange, GW Midrange, Aristocrats, B/W Zombies(super easy, guy was demoralized once he saw T1 Noble, played like crap), and Naya Aggro.
tl;dr Despite many on this forum advising to the contrary. I think GY hate is necessary ATM, at the very least it is in my meta. Definately want to try cutting Cackler for BTE as they fill roughly the same role, one coming down a turn earlier than the other. Cackler helps keep T1 consistant, BTE makes T2/3/4 more important. This deck is tournament viable.
really? this sounds like a nub issue, but...doesnt all damage go through thats not straight damage? i mean, doesnt trample mean if you have a 15/15 trample critter, and they block with a 1/1, that 14 damage goes through? ive never seen this debated before? with, or without deathtouch?
Trample lets you assign extra damage to the player or planeswalker you are attacking. You must first assign lethal damge to the creature(s) blocking, then you may put the rest to the face. When a trampler has deathtouch lethal damage becomes 1. So the deathtouch will you help your trampler on any blocker who's toughness is more than 1.
Have recently also added my boy chain walker back in the mix and he is such a good burning tree complement. Which I also feel like this combination of creatures gels very well and lets burning tree shine. Nothing like a misused emissary.
Why not Lightning Mauler instead? complements both the BTE and Wolf much better than chainwalker. IMO, of course.
I dont think having just medic and geist will trigger battalion. I believe since you are not declaring the angel token as an attacker only two creatures are attacking when battalion checks. Please correct me if I am wrong.
To the OP I am very intrigued by this deck and will definately be testing it out on Cockatrice. I will report my findings here. I want to try feeling of dread out in place of the soul tithes and add a glacial fortress.
Seems to me you should focus on either the Aurelia+Obzedat interaction or the Olivia+Bloodline Keeper interaction. Streamline your wincons and you will hit them more often. Maybe prophetic prism instead of the lanterns. Overall, I like where its going.
Kamwise, deck looks very solid. I have been stuggling with dropping that 4th Hellrider for a couple days now. I guess if I want 22 lands I can't have 4 Hellriders. Plus with the addition of Ghor-Clan Rampager and Rancor Hellrider doesn't need to pull as much weight.
Just wondering if you have been testing Legion Loyalist at all, maybe in that singleton spot?
Oh yeah, How nasty is Flinthoof Boar! I am always happy to slap him on the table, especially as a "3-drop". I like that term, "Ranboar". This deck could be called Rancboar Deck Wins.
Without a doubt, Young Pyromancer. Value!!, red style... Combat trick, check. Need to push more damage through, check. Desecration Demon got you down, check. Pandemonium style effects, double check. Never leave home without a playset.
But seriously if Loyalist was a 2/1 then this is another story altogether. But its a 1/1 and needs dudes and pump spells to be good. Why dilute your deck? Just play a better threat for the mana.
Here is what I ran:
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Hellrider
3 Hound of Griselbrand
4 Rancor
4 Searing Spear
Land
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
11 Mountains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Zealous Conscripts
2 Traitorous Bloos
2 Domri Rade
2 Brimstone Volley
2 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Pillar of Flame
Heres the matchups:
Round 1 - 4-Color Simic Goodstuff (G/U/b/w) (2-0)
Basically a bant shell that had Vraska, Tamiyo, Unexpected Results, and Urban Evolutionm, and Elderscale Wurm.
Game 1 - On play, Noble, into Boar, into Reckoner. He just durdled with Unexpected Results and Urban Evolution. Didn't have answers for the clock I set so he scooped. W
SB -4 Rancor -3 GCR +2 Brimstone +2 Domri +2 Zealous +1 KWR
Game 2 -
Noble into, Zealot, into Boar, then stuck at 3 lands. He was able to get down Tamiyo and Vraska to stabilize. Still at three lands was able to grind him to 5. He had played 2 Urban Evolutions by this time and was at 9 land, and dropped an Elderscale Wurm (his only creature at the time) to keep his life at 7. Next turn got the 4th land to put down hellrider but couldn't attack into the wurm. Next turn he attacked to drop me to 13, tap down hellrider and pass. Drew Zealous, then passed. He drops me to 6, passes. Then I drew a mountain for the fifth land, put down zealous and stole the wurm for the win. W
Round 2 - UWR Reckoner (2-1)
Game 1 - On draw, curved nicely but he had early answers to my threats got him down to 6 before the first revelation and I scooped. L
SB -3 Rancor -4 GCR +2 Traitorous +2 Zealous +2 Domri +1 KWR
Game 2 - Noble, into Zealot, no turn three play, into Hound. He drops reckoner. Next turn I get zealous out to take the reckoner and swing through.
Got him down to 5 and finished off with two spears. W
No SB changes
Game 3 - Fought through two revelations for X=3 each. Made a major misplay. Just before the second revelation he was at 4 with no creatures on his side. I had a reckoner and 5 land. I drew zealous conscripts and just said take my own land. I should have taken his land so the revelation could only be casted for X=2, as he waited to cast it until after declare blockers step. After that he got back up to 6, killed my zealous, and got a reckoner of his own. I finished him off with a topdeck hellrider. W
Round 3 - 4C Midrange (G/R/w/b) (2-1)
Game 1 - Lost to Aurelia, the Warleader, as she had a Thragtusk, and beast token along her side. Swing for 22? gg. L
SB -4 Rancor -1 Spear +2 Zealous +2 Brimstone Volley +1 KWR
Game 2 - He flooded, I curved, pretty straight forward.
SB -4 Stromkirk Noble +2 Traitorous +2 Domri
Game 3 - Got him down to one with me having a BTE and Hound. He had reckoner and then dropped a Huntmaster to get back to 3 and get a chump blocker. Passes to me. I draw flinthoof play him and pass. He passes back to flip huntmaster, and pings BTE. I topdeck Brimstone for the win he shows me the resto he was holding onto as even blinking ravager cant save him. W
For this tournament, Zealous Conscripts and Brimstone were ALL-STARS. Zealous definately proved its worth over Thundermaw in this meta.
With all the topdecking I was forced to do, drawing a tap land would be devastating, so I don't think we can afford to run any number of gates at this time. I have been toying with the idea like Fate has to add it. I just can't bring myself to do it, and for the time being I will keep the KWR in the sb to avoid awkward lands in game 1.
I am feeling really good about this build, as I feel I can win most of my matchups right now (at least in my meta). That is except for that redonk UG Delver list that won the PTQ I went to. Funny, he felt that Naya aggro and R/g Aggro were his worst matchups.
[CARD]
Rally the Peasants[/CARD] is one I wanted to make work badly with Turbo Gruul and the like. Could just go naya with it to get Boros Charm and Thalia also. Could also be the worst idea ever? Too bad Rally isnt 2R with 2W as the flashback cost.
My SB has been
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Domri Rade
Been playing this deck for the past 2 months at least. I was running 3 Temple gardens before like you aswell up until last week. I had just way to many awkward hands with 2 or three temple gardens and couldn't get crucial threats down on curve. How have you been faring. I finally cut one for a KWR. And played an 8 round PTQ yesterday. Really wished I was running one KWR for same reasons I cut the Temple Garden. And since Reanimator was running rampant definately some Graveyard hate. I would cut the 2 mizzium mortars as I never really wanted to bring them in. The pillars, flames, and act were enough burn for aggro, and like you I usually wanted to go 'faster' as a sideboard strategy and mortars isnt conducive to that playstyle. Mortars deals with 1 Thrag but the hate deals with thrag, aos, the life, and the beast token. The only fear would be that once they see your hate, they side out the rites and just gor midrange, as both popular reanimator styles can do. But having that hate forces them to beat you fairly and the cost of threat density on your side.
As for the PTQ the deck performed as it should. It was my first big tournament (larger than 3 rounds/40 people) as 136 came out. So going into Round 8 at 5-2 with a slight chance at Top 8 with win. I mulled to 5 game one, then mulled to 6 game 2. Both were questionable keeps that earlier in the day would have mulled for sure but kept due to fatigue and excitement at the prospect of first Top 8. 5-3 all day, 24th. Losses were Junk rites, Human Reanimator, and Jund Aggro (last round). Wins were Bant Midrange, GW Midrange, Aristocrats, B/W Zombies(super easy, guy was demoralized once he saw T1 Noble, played like crap), and Naya Aggro.
tl;dr Despite many on this forum advising to the contrary. I think GY hate is necessary ATM, at the very least it is in my meta. Definately want to try cutting Cackler for BTE as they fill roughly the same role, one coming down a turn earlier than the other. Cackler helps keep T1 consistant, BTE makes T2/3/4 more important. This deck is tournament viable.
Trample lets you assign extra damage to the player or planeswalker you are attacking. You must first assign lethal damge to the creature(s) blocking, then you may put the rest to the face. When a trampler has deathtouch lethal damage becomes 1. So the deathtouch will you help your trampler on any blocker who's toughness is more than 1.
Why not Lightning Mauler instead? complements both the BTE and Wolf much better than chainwalker. IMO, of course.
To the OP I am very intrigued by this deck and will definately be testing it out on Cockatrice. I will report my findings here. I want to try feeling of dread out in place of the soul tithes and add a glacial fortress.
Just wondering if you have been testing Legion Loyalist at all, maybe in that singleton spot?
Oh yeah, How nasty is Flinthoof Boar! I am always happy to slap him on the table, especially as a "3-drop". I like that term, "Ranboar". This deck could be called Rancboar Deck Wins.