I was alittle skeptical about smugglers copter and I thought that ghost quarter would be better than mutavault. But I've been grinding in leagues and they are clearly amazing together. Gideon is also a ridiculously fast closer, you guys should try him out.
My sideboard is still in flux, this was it in the last league:
I lost to burn and living end, because I couldn't draw my hate fast enough, the same thing has been happening, like losing to dredge because of no rip, etc... Liliana was supposed to be hate against x/1's, card advantage for midrange mirrors, and be able to recur fulminators. Turns out she's just too slow. I'm thinking about cutting her, and one needle for this sideboard:
The top 8 decks of modern (according to mtggoldfish) are:
eldrazi tron, grixis death's shadow, titan shift, burn, storm, affinity, u/w control, and abzan.
I think we are favored already against death's shadow, and u/w control.
I think we are around 50% against affinity and abzan (maybe a bit better against abzan).
So I've molded my board to be really good against the other 4.
fulminator, needle and wrath for eldrazi
fulminator, leyline for titan shift
leyline for burn
leyline, and rip for storm
I'm kind of worried about coco, I haven't played against that deck with this yet. You guys seem confidant in that matchup though. Will only a sideboarded persecution and wrath be good enough with my main, I guess cutting 2 inquisition for them?
So do you guys think that since the fetches aren't in a regular standard set, that they are planning on making a frontier-esque format that doesn't have fetches?
Does this mean the end of fetches in normal standard sets?
One more question.
Since Serum Visions, ghostly prison, and inquisition of kozilek got reprinted in conspiracy 2, is it safe to say that they most likely will not be included in mm17?
I feel like it's almost guaranteed that they won't be reprinted again so soon, but I'd love to get yall's input on this.
Is that all you got bro?
attack with the miner, flicker then:
herbalists, herbalists, rishkar pumping up an herbalist and the thraben inspector you played turn one, use the inspector to hold up blossoming defense. Adding 8 power on turn 3 (12 power total) AND holding up a protection spell. This card is going to be stupid. It's burning tree emissary all over again.
I've been reading about people saying that if you have metallic mimic naming servo and animation module in play, if you can trigger the animation module, then you can basically make as many servos as you have mana available, since a servo would come into play with a +1/+1 counter, triggering the module, then you do it again and again.
I'm wondering if that actually works though. The mimic says that the named creature types ENTER PLAY with a +1/+1 counter, and animation module triggers when a counter is placed on a creature. So I guess my question is, would animation module trigger off of a creature entering play with a +1/+1 counter?
Are you telling me Mardu closes game more quickly than Jund because of a few more burn spells? Let's be realistic. They have a 2-drop beater that grows to a 5/6 in the late game, they can recur it continuously with kolgahan's command, and they have access to Raging Ravine.
Mardu's strength lies in its ability to grind with more efficient removals and Lingering Souls. If you're running Bitterblossom, why not just take the BW Token shell and use anthems? All your threats go wide and make spot removal poor. As your 4-drop, both Gideon and Sorin are much better threats both offensively and defensively. You lose Dark Confidant and Abbot but you add more tokens and have a more reliable method of finishing the game. Dark Confidant is not as good in Mardu because Jund uses multiple threats that needs removal, so the percentage of Dark Confidant surviving is much lower.
I see what you are saying, but if you play anthems, don't you run into the situation of having the anthems but no tokens?
Could you post your list?
In the competitive league I played against infect, eldrazi and taxes, the new jund deck (death's shadow version, actually pretty scary), amulet of vigor, and dredge. In the friendly league it was infect, eldrazi and taxes, kiki chord, affinity, and grixis control.
Obviously the big omission is Liliana, I wanted to play 4 helix to fuel bitterblossom, and since the tokens can chump big things, her -2 wouldn't be as significant. 4 helix also makes this more like an agro deck that can grind rather than a jund-esque deck since I can burn people out from high life totals. Butcher also makes the deck more aggressive, Liliana just isn't at home in this deck.
By cutting Liliana, I can make blood more more of an option because the deck can now operate on just one plains and one swamp. So I swapped out 2 mire for 2 mesa and gave it a shot, it was super good lock out infect, obviously the amulet deck, but it's hilariously good against eldrazi and taxes. This also helps against tron since we don't have to sink mana into multiple fulminators to keep them off of tron. Blood moon is a great dimension to this deck, and we can support it well. I did have to forgo white in 2 games because of it, but it might be correct to cut a blackcleave to get the 3rd mesa.
I also added in abbots as butcher fodder that draws a card, the prowess is also super effective. I think the card is great, it lets us cheat on lands, and it's actually a great beater.
I am playing dreadbore over terminate because karn, ugin, and the walkers in sun and moon are annoying as hell and I want a one-card answer. The only real drawbacks are not being able to hit manlands, stop a hit from a hasty threat, or stop a hit from a creature with cranial plating. I think the flexibility is more important, but I could be wrong.
I am considering cutting bitterblossom. I know I was pretty high on it before, but there are matchups where it just isn't great, I boarded it out against amulet, death's shadow jund, and dredge, just because it's too slow. I also think with the more aggressive angle to my deck, it might be better to look elsewhere. I am considering goblin rabblemaster I did try it out in another version of this and it's a really solid must-kill threat that works well with butcher and puts on a really quick clock (6 damage on it's first attack). The problem is obviously that it dies to bolt, and you have to keep the battlefield clear, whereas it's impossible for a lot of decks in modern to kill bitterblossom, and the tokens fly.
Either way I just want a threat that works with butcher (meaning creates 2 tokens by turn 4 to sac for haste and lifelink).
Butcher has been ridiculous, you guys seriously need to try him out. People will board out of terminates and such if they don't see it game one. The grixis player I beat couldn't kill it, and it just hit him 4 times for the win. It also brings you back from behind because one hit is a 10 point lifeswing. It can also get haste, so it punishes people for tapping out hard.
Nukedz, you are completely right about hide//seek, it's a lot more flexible than wear//tear. You can bring it in against jund because they sometimes play night of soul's betrayal and if they don't play it, you can seek them and make sure they don't have it, then take a pulse or something if they don't. It's also good at protecting blood moon, since most decks don't play a lot of enchantment destruction (if any) you can take away their outs (this came up against amulet).
Anyway, what do you guys think?
The problem with the whole sac to Butcher strategy is you are relying on curving out perfectly on a 3-of card that dies to so many things. In grindy decks like this, you can't be too synergy-based as you need to ensure each card you top deck will be better than your opponent's in the long game.
Bitterblossom is only good with anthem support ( BW Tokens) or fairy support. I run a Mardu Tokens build that uses the BW Token shell and I would never run BB without anthems otherwise it's too slow.
Having the most efficient 1-for-1 spells in the format means our deck is designed to go the long game. Either we combine this with powerful cheap proactive threats (e.g Jund) or we have a more powerful endgame than our opponent that is resilient.
Butcher is just one part of the deck, it's not like the cards that enable him are bad. He's just a quick clock that has the ability to swing games. He dies to terminate, path, and pulse. Not every deck runs these cards, and they are generally just 4 of their 60 they are not reasons to not play butcher.
Bitterblossom is sometimes too slow but as I was playing a league today I came to the conclusion that it's one of the best threats we can have right now be cause you can just set it and forget it just go about your business and get value.
We also have access to more burn than Jund we can close games much more quickly because of that.
It barely sees play now and outside of super low-curve decks the second ability seems very inconsistent and as a beater it is probably weaker than Seeker of the Way (that can also gain life).
Can Pack Rat be good in this deck ? (the 3-mana activation seems really costly though)
Abbot is awesome, obviously you need a low curve to get the best use out of him (I'm only playing 8 cards cmc 3 or more). But, in return, you get a (almost) strictly better elvish visionary, I kind of want the 4th one. Seeker is cool, but doesn't replace itself. Wall would be better in a control deck with nahiri. soulfire is descent, but it's playability is predicated on using it's ability, and it's ability is expensive, you won't be able to use it until turn 5 and even then you need a 1 cmc spell and soulfire has to live a turn, and it dies to bolt. Asylum visitor basically has the same issues as soulfire, except it does work well with Liliana.
I've tried pyromancer and mentor, it forces you to contort your play to get value. Like, if you play pyromancer on an empty board, then it gets bolted, do you bolt their face in response to get a token? Pyromancer's tokens are also pretty bad because they are just 1/1's with no evasion. Mentor is better, but a lot slower.
I did actually use pack rat successfully in modern back right before m15 was released (won a ptq with it), back then it was good because it let you beat pod in a heads up fight and it let you hold up removal against twin because you could activate it at instant speed. These aren't really issues anymore, the format is faster, and anger of the gods is more widely played. It does also kind of force you to play mutavault, so you probably need more lands (I played 24, 3 mutavault, 1 vault of the archangel, and that was very greedy and it was in a 2 color deck). I can see playing it, but it might be better as a sideboard card. I'm just not sure the format is friendly to it now.
I've been doing pretty well with this maindeck on mtgo.
4 marsh flats
4 concealed courtyard
3 godless shrine
3 shambling vent
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 plains
2 swamp
4 mutavault
1 vault of the archangel
4 tidehollow sculler
4 dark confidant
artifacts: 4
4 smuggler's copter
walkers: 6
3 Liliana of the veil
3 Gideon, ally of zendikar
spells: 18
4 fatal push
4 path to exile
3 thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 lingering souls
I was alittle skeptical about smugglers copter and I thought that ghost quarter would be better than mutavault. But I've been grinding in leagues and they are clearly amazing together. Gideon is also a ridiculously fast closer, you guys should try him out.
My sideboard is still in flux, this was it in the last league:
3 rest in peace
1 zealous persecution
3 fulminator mage
2 Liliana, the last hope
3 leyline of sanctity
1 wrath of god
I lost to burn and living end, because I couldn't draw my hate fast enough, the same thing has been happening, like losing to dredge because of no rip, etc... Liliana was supposed to be hate against x/1's, card advantage for midrange mirrors, and be able to recur fulminators. Turns out she's just too slow. I'm thinking about cutting her, and one needle for this sideboard:
4 rest in peace
1 zealous persecution
4 fulminator mage
4 leyline of sanctity
1 wrath of god
The top 8 decks of modern (according to mtggoldfish) are:
eldrazi tron, grixis death's shadow, titan shift, burn, storm, affinity, u/w control, and abzan.
I think we are favored already against death's shadow, and u/w control.
I think we are around 50% against affinity and abzan (maybe a bit better against abzan).
So I've molded my board to be really good against the other 4.
fulminator, needle and wrath for eldrazi
fulminator, leyline for titan shift
leyline for burn
leyline, and rip for storm
I'm kind of worried about coco, I haven't played against that deck with this yet. You guys seem confidant in that matchup though. Will only a sideboarded persecution and wrath be good enough with my main, I guess cutting 2 inquisition for them?
Does this mean the end of fetches in normal standard sets?
Since Serum Visions, ghostly prison, and inquisition of kozilek got reprinted in conspiracy 2, is it safe to say that they most likely will not be included in mm17?
I feel like it's almost guaranteed that they won't be reprinted again so soon, but I'd love to get yall's input on this.
Is that all you got bro?
attack with the miner, flicker then:
herbalists, herbalists, rishkar pumping up an herbalist and the thraben inspector you played turn one, use the inspector to hold up blossoming defense. Adding 8 power on turn 3 (12 power total) AND holding up a protection spell. This card is going to be stupid. It's burning tree emissary all over again.
I'm wondering if that actually works though. The mimic says that the named creature types ENTER PLAY with a +1/+1 counter, and animation module triggers when a counter is placed on a creature. So I guess my question is, would animation module trigger off of a creature entering play with a +1/+1 counter?
I thought about him playing some jams on his guitar, his hands are in the perfect positions to add a guitar there in an alter.
agreed, the lack of good 1-cmc removal is one of the biggest things holding that color combo back.
I see what you are saying, but if you play anthems, don't you run into the situation of having the anthems but no tokens?
Could you post your list?
Butcher is just one part of the deck, it's not like the cards that enable him are bad. He's just a quick clock that has the ability to swing games. He dies to terminate, path, and pulse. Not every deck runs these cards, and they are generally just 4 of their 60 they are not reasons to not play butcher.
Bitterblossom is sometimes too slow but as I was playing a league today I came to the conclusion that it's one of the best threats we can have right now be cause you can just set it and forget it just go about your business and get value.
We also have access to more burn than Jund we can close games much more quickly because of that.
Abbot is awesome, obviously you need a low curve to get the best use out of him (I'm only playing 8 cards cmc 3 or more). But, in return, you get a (almost) strictly better elvish visionary, I kind of want the 4th one. Seeker is cool, but doesn't replace itself. Wall would be better in a control deck with nahiri. soulfire is descent, but it's playability is predicated on using it's ability, and it's ability is expensive, you won't be able to use it until turn 5 and even then you need a 1 cmc spell and soulfire has to live a turn, and it dies to bolt. Asylum visitor basically has the same issues as soulfire, except it does work well with Liliana.
I've tried pyromancer and mentor, it forces you to contort your play to get value. Like, if you play pyromancer on an empty board, then it gets bolted, do you bolt their face in response to get a token? Pyromancer's tokens are also pretty bad because they are just 1/1's with no evasion. Mentor is better, but a lot slower.
I did actually use pack rat successfully in modern back right before m15 was released (won a ptq with it), back then it was good because it let you beat pod in a heads up fight and it let you hold up removal against twin because you could activate it at instant speed. These aren't really issues anymore, the format is faster, and anger of the gods is more widely played. It does also kind of force you to play mutavault, so you probably need more lands (I played 24, 3 mutavault, 1 vault of the archangel, and that was very greedy and it was in a 2 color deck). I can see playing it, but it might be better as a sideboard card. I'm just not sure the format is friendly to it now.