MTG Salvation

Quote from SynthesisB

Awesome, whenever you finish your list, go ahead and compare it to the latest set of tracks. I usually keep them as close to my current version as possible. I'm not sure if it helps or not, but it looks like Stolen Identity can be found once on Track A and 3 times on Track B. Additionally, Spark Trooper may be on both tracks C and D. I'm not 100% on that last one. I'm still testing it the idea.

Have you found any inconsistencies with the Tracks I posted earlier? They should all be almost entirely correct from what I looked at. Stolen Identity is indeed the rare that appears once on Track A and 3 times on Track B. Spark Trooper is on Track C and D twice, it was one of the hardest to pin down.

I don't think figuring out the Tracks is the difficult part. The thing about this set which will make mapping difficult and possibly very impractical is the number of different sequences in use and that they don't seem to always repeat when they end. I have a feeling WotC is close to making mapping pointless to do from a value standpoint with the number of packs you'll have to burn to figure out where you are in the box.

I believe each of the three sequences I have seen are from USA boxes, quite possibly they can even from the same case, but I am not 100% sure on that (I was less than thorough when collecting the data and didn't bother trying to record any of that).

There are some boxes in which the known sequence ends and then whatever happens next isn't anticipated, but the cards from each track still progress as expected throughout the box. So you can wind up knowing what is in the box, but you won't know exactly where. Meaning you will open a lot more packs than you'll want to. Maybe with enough data it can be figured out how to anticipate the changes, but so far I am at a loss.

To update my earlier post. I think there are definitely three, possibly more sequences in use. The one we have seen used since Innistrad, plus the one I posted a few pages back, and then I have been able to pick out another one as well, but I need to do more work to figure it out exactly. Anyway, from the data that fits with the sequences I know do exist, here are all four tracks as best I could figure. There may be a few spots in which a couple cards may be flipped (and the Shock Trooper in the middle of track C was very elusive and could be a spot or two wrong).

Track A

Track B

Track C

Track D

To me, the hardest part of mapping Gatecrash practically will be the quickness you can determine which sequence the box is on and then hoping it doesn't do something odd when the sequence ends (like skip cards, start a new sequence, etc).

Looks like there is a new sequence besides the one we saw for INN thru RTR. This is what I think it is; would like someone to check and confirm though. It does have the proper number of each track in the sequence (5 A's, 5 B's, 6 C's, 6 D's). The data provided so far has boxes with both sequences. Not sure if it is possible to get both sequences in one case, or if the entire case is one or the other.

C
B
A
D
D
C
B
A
D
B
C
A
D
D
C
B
A
D
C
C
B
A

Yeah, most of the spots where I wasn't sure which card was above/below the other was either due to incorrectly recorded data, or I accounted for the displacement into the wrong row (can happen if you have two rows with the same the pack sequence in them "ADB" or "BDC" and one of them was displaced). So I just went with the one I had the most data for. Regardless, in all of the cases where our data was flip-flopped both cards aren't good so you'd never want to actually open one of those packs anyway.

I did notice that Track D is especially devoid of anything of value. Wolfir Silverheart is the only thing better than bulk. That does make mapping a bit more convenient as you can for all intents and purposes ignore one whole track if you get lucky.

RLWJR, thanks for the data you've got so far. I'll look it over this weekend and see if I can help fill in some of the gaps.

Care to share the box data you've got so another set of eyes can work on it?

Not sure if anyone has compiled the USA box data into a spreadsheet anywhere, but given that AVR and RTR have been mapped it might be worth while to look into INN again (USA printed boxes only, it appears the Belgium boxes already got sort of mapped).

Just finished the tracks late last night myself. Hadn't gotten a chance to post until now. Looks like I was beaten to the punch!

n144mann, comparing your tracks to mine. Here are my notes:

Track A: Agreed on the Sigarda/Slayers' Stronghold spot. I just flipped a coin there.

Track B: The only cards I was a little unsure on were the Descendants' Path and Rite of Ruin at the bottom of the track. I had them in reverse order of your list, but I had them marked as "unsure" as I didn't hit a lot of real solid data on that aspect of the track compared to others.

Track C: Only differences I had are the Champion of Lambholt/Killing Wave and the Divine Deflection/Demonic Rising. Had those flipped.

Track D: Dread Slaver/Dual Casting and Angel of Jubilation/Reforge the Soul were only places my work differed. Same deal, had them flipped compared to you.

I had much stronger data on certain parts of the tracks than others. Some parts had little or no data from the boxes posted. I had to do a number of filters to try and find boxes that would give the data I was looking for. Made the process take a bit longer than I was hoping. The top row is almost always displaced. If you want to map properly, start with row 2. The other displacement seemed to usually be row 7, but it was much more variable than the top row displacement. I saw displacements anywhere from row 6 down to 9.

The thing that made the process take as long as it did was the amount of data that I believe was incorrectly recorded. I just threw out boxes that made no sense at all. Of course you have to assume those providing the data are correctly recording it, but a number of times it was clear that was not the case.

I checked in on the M13 thread now that we have the template for RTR and AVR. Unfortunately there seems to be almost no data provided. I have little hope that set will ever be mapped based on the lack of data. We can only hope that Gatecrash follows the same sequence and # of tracks as RTR and AVR. My guess is that it does since it has probably already been printed by now and they most likely didn't have enough lead time to change things beforehand. Going back to INN might prove fruitful, but I have yet to look into it.

Anyway, good job guys and good fortune to those attempting to use the data.

I'm fairly sure it is Alchemist's Refuge placed between Temporal Mastery and Griselbrand.

It looks to me (comparing the box data collected to the partial track n144man posted, above along with the solved RTR 'A' Track) that AVR is almost exactly like RTR. Two 55 card tracks and two 66 card tracks. It looks like what n144man posted above is 6 cards short of being 55 cards. Based on the RTR 'A' Track which has all the mythics, plus a number of rares each appearing 4 times and then 1 randomly inserted rare which only appears once, I'd say we still need to figure out where the 4th copy of Hound of Griselbrand, Lunar Mystic, and Dark Impostor are on the track, along with the 3 extra copies of another rare. From n144man's list, the choices would seem to be either Restoration Angel or Cavern of Souls for 3 extra copies. However, I'm not entirely sure about Cavern's spot on his list. Vinzito's data seems to suggest Silverblade Paladin could there as well, but I haven't looked into that much.

Also, the sequence of "A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C" from RTR definitely comes very close to the 'A' track sequence I've seen looking at AVR boxes that contain both Griselbrand and Bonfire in them. If you mark the cards from the 'A' track and use an "x" as any card not on the 'A' track you get a sequence very close to the RTR sequence (with some displacement occurring).

The only thing that seems to be making this one more difficult is that the displacements appear more random than RTR (as in only one or two packs get moved sometimes, not the whole row). That could just be a symptom of not knowing the full tracks, but it looks that way to me.

Also, I think n144man's projected 'A' Track above has Sigarda and Gisela backwards where they appear together (from looking at box data where both of those cards appear).

Anyway, this is all just observations based on what we know from RTR compared to the data from AVR. It makes sense that WotC would keep using the same setup for each set since no one had been able to solve them for quite some time.