Has anyone considered trying out Shaun mclarens Kiki combo list again? I think it could be quite good right now. For reference here is the list he got top 4 with.
Obviously some changes are needed with the current meta. But an 0/4 flying wall seems pretty spectacular right now. I think you could easily drop to 2 kikis and add some amount of DTT. At any rate the list needs some work, but I have a good feeling that now could be a good time to bring this list back.
Then, mid-late game: that's where you win. Or what you won't even reach if you couldn't deal with the Goyfs.
1. Land a Tezz. Tick it up a bit so it don't die to bolt. Keep Tar pit ready if they land a late-Lili, and Skite to eat the Decay that's going to target your Tar pit;
If you're sitting on 5 lands I think it's a perfectly fine play to slam a prime time and jump to 9 lands. Mostly likely smash for 6 and get atleast 1 valakut trigger to clear up the board or burn the face.
A classic UWr control deck or something like blood moon can beat this deck, especially the aggro version. They counter your stuff, draw a bunch of cards, bolt your delver, sweep the board, smash with colonnade, shackles your pyro, sphinx rev for life, all the stuff they love doing. I've actually had real solid success against UR delver with a time warp/taking turns deck.
I've been Spell Piercing and Snaring those control decks for a few weeks now.
Sure, just like delver has always done. It's just a matter of getting some control. But here's the Minneapolis SCG top 16:
1. Blue Moon
2. UR Delver
3. UR Delver
4. Burn (Swiftspear, No TC)
5. Burn (Swiftspear and TC)
6. Infect
7. Bogles
8. UR Delver (Swiftspear and TC)
I think snapcaster is still good in the deck along side Swiftspears. Just not as a 4 of. My current build which I've used at the past 3 modern FNM's (winning 1st place each time) uses this creature build.
4 delver
4 Swiftspears
3 young peezy
2 snaps
I think the full 4 conflicts to much with the delve cards. But I think 6 cards interacting with the GY is a fair number.
Care to explain? I know the sideboard looked pretty sketch (Eidolon in particular seemed awful), but the MB didn't look too bad (or all too different from other delver lists).
I feel electrolyze, sleight of hand. And to some degree mana leak have no business in this deck.
Also monastery Swiftspear (for me) has proven time and time again to be amazing and will remain a 4 of.
1 also feel that spell snare is one of the best cards in the current meta (I run 2MB 1 SB)
Lastly as you also said eidolon is just really bad.
I am not a fan of dragons claw at all. I also dislike your shackles and counter flux in the side.
Also some of your side boarding seems off. I think vapor snag is really good in the mirror (It un-flips their delver which in many cases is almost a two for one with how often we serum visions to setup the flip.) also it's good against affinity and Splinter twin (if they go off without counter backup you just ruin twins day) and against affinity you can use your burn to force certain sacs to their ravager and just blow them out by sending ravager back to hand.
I recently added smash to smithereens to my SB and I really like the card for artifact hate. I have also really like 2 Spellskite in the sideboard as it helps with lots of problematic matches (infect, boggles, twin, burn, America control)
I also really like counters in the pod matchup. If you can burn out their early dorks with remand backup for when they finally cast a threat it puts you in a really good position. You really can't let them resolve a birthing pod. I also don't mind spell pierce in the matchup as they usually tap out for both pod and cord (usually leave 1 mana for pod up) either way it usually ends up being a hard counter for 1.
Went to fnm tonight, 18 showed up / 5 rounds. I went 4-0 (8-0 in games) I was the only 4-0 at the time. Lost in the finals against affinity. Really close games was very fun. Overall 4-1 9-2 in games. I still came in 1st with the highest win %. I'll post a deck list tomorrow when I have from free time. Off to bed!
I don't thin Heros downfall belongs in this deck. I think for this deck to be consistent enough for standard we need to play 2 colors and splash the third. I really like Raphael's build as it's WRb. He has no black cards that cost double. This is key to being able to cast our spells.
Being required to have double red for Sarkhan and Chandra. Double white for elspeth and end hostilities. And now double black for a Heros downfall. Something has to give and I think having black just as a splash is the much better choice. Enabling mardu charm, crackling doom and Thoughtseize. Just my thoughts but I think that's how this deck needs to be built in order to maintain enough consistency in the mana base to put up decent results at a GP or any larger event.
In regards to blood moon I think there is better options for now. Cmc 3 is just never where we want to be. Even spreading seas seems better. Pumps Swiftspears and can trips.
On a side note, has anyone considered Goyf in this deck? I've been considering a green splash. Would consist of 10 MD cards and 2 sideboard slots.
4 tarn
4 misty
1 strand/delta
3 steam vents
1 breeding pool
1 mountain
3 island
1 forest
Lmk what you think. And yes I realize cruise lowers the goyf, but our opponent still has a yard.. And we pretty quickly get a instant/sorcery/land etc in there
If not for Goyfs (+afforementrioned cards and Ancient grudge) I would not splash green in my lists.
Simic charm works well but in my opinion Boros charm is superior as it can also go to the face and white offers a lot more in terms of removal (Path) or other burn spells (Helix).
Bacause it comes up sooo often in this thread:
Swiftspear and counters don't really get along
70% Agreed. It does not synergize all too well, but:
-Worst case, it is still a onedrop that has a lot of potential, even if he chips for 1-3 damage in the first few turns (aka Lightning bolt that cost your opponent a card to remove)
-It disencourages your oppenent from casting spells in your upkeep and before combat damage goes on the stack, so they sometimes tap out on their turn to reduce incoming damage.
-If you control multiple Swiftspears you can just counter your own spells for multiple prowess triggers and potentially leathal damage.
At the moment, I am running the following List, notably I cut probes in favour of thought scour and non cantrip spells, while staying at 17 Lands.
In my experience there are 2 paths to victory:
-Multiple Delvers & Swifts close out the game backed up by removel & counters
-Early pressure gets dealt with and you can cruise at least once to refill your, find new threats and overwhelm your opponent.
(I lost a lot of games because I was not able to find cruises so I really want 4 of them)
For the love of god add probes back in. They're one of the best cards in the deck. Not to mention you're running the counter spell version and probe allows you to use your counter spells to their full potential.
Also searing blaze is just horrible. This is a very land light deck. Not only is cmc 2 not something we want if we don't needs it searing blaze is double red. Soo bad.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
3 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Restoration Angel
4 Wall of Omens
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
20 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Electrolyze
4 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Spell Snare
1 Cryptic Command
3 Stony Silence
1 Wear / Tear
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Wrath of God
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
1 Spellskite
Obviously some changes are needed with the current meta. But an 0/4 flying wall seems pretty spectacular right now. I think you could easily drop to 2 kikis and add some amount of DTT. At any rate the list needs some work, but I have a good feeling that now could be a good time to bring this list back.
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Summoning Trap
4 Through the Breach
2 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
60 cards
2 Deglamer
3 Fracturing Gust
4 Slaughter Games
2 Chalice of the Void
14 cards
Abrupt decay can't target lands.
2 seeker
2 helix main
2 seeker sb
And I disagree I think seeker could be a very good addition to the deck. Certainly worth testing.
The delver list in 3rd place ran 14 lands O.o granted he only ran 6 2 drops.
4 delver
4 Swiftspears
3 young peezy
2 snaps
I think the full 4 conflicts to much with the delve cards. But I think 6 cards interacting with the GY is a fair number.
I feel electrolyze, sleight of hand. And to some degree mana leak have no business in this deck.
Also monastery Swiftspear (for me) has proven time and time again to be amazing and will remain a 4 of.
1 also feel that spell snare is one of the best cards in the current meta (I run 2MB 1 SB)
Lastly as you also said eidolon is just really bad.
Also some of your side boarding seems off. I think vapor snag is really good in the mirror (It un-flips their delver which in many cases is almost a two for one with how often we serum visions to setup the flip.) also it's good against affinity and Splinter twin (if they go off without counter backup you just ruin twins day) and against affinity you can use your burn to force certain sacs to their ravager and just blow them out by sending ravager back to hand.
I recently added smash to smithereens to my SB and I really like the card for artifact hate. I have also really like 2 Spellskite in the sideboard as it helps with lots of problematic matches (infect, boggles, twin, burn, America control)
I also really like counters in the pod matchup. If you can burn out their early dorks with remand backup for when they finally cast a threat it puts you in a really good position. You really can't let them resolve a birthing pod. I also don't mind spell pierce in the matchup as they usually tap out for both pod and cord (usually leave 1 mana for pod up) either way it usually ends up being a hard counter for 1.
Being required to have double red for Sarkhan and Chandra. Double white for elspeth and end hostilities. And now double black for a Heros downfall. Something has to give and I think having black just as a splash is the much better choice. Enabling mardu charm, crackling doom and Thoughtseize. Just my thoughts but I think that's how this deck needs to be built in order to maintain enough consistency in the mana base to put up decent results at a GP or any larger event.
On a side note, has anyone considered Goyf in this deck? I've been considering a green splash. Would consist of 10 MD cards and 2 sideboard slots.
This is the deck idea (first draft)
MD
Creatures 15
4 Goyf
4 delver
4 Swiftspears
3 young peezy
Spells 27
3 Simic Charm
3 Mutagenic growth
4 serum visions
4 Gitaxian probe
2 thought scour
4 Treasure Cruise
1 vapor snag
4 Bolt
2 forked bolt
Land 18
4 tarn
4 misty
1 strand/delta
3 steam vents
1 breeding pool
1 mountain
3 island
1 forest
Lmk what you think. And yes I realize cruise lowers the goyf, but our opponent still has a yard.. And we pretty quickly get a instant/sorcery/land etc in there
For the love of god add probes back in. They're one of the best cards in the deck. Not to mention you're running the counter spell version and probe allows you to use your counter spells to their full potential.
Also searing blaze is just horrible. This is a very land light deck. Not only is cmc 2 not something we want if we don't needs it searing blaze is double red. Soo bad.