man you guys are thinking way too hard over-analyzing what, at face value, was a rather straightforward decision.
like attributing choosing bridge over another card because they are greedy and only care about selling new product. is it not possible that bridge was chosen because it was actually the appropriate choice given its role in the most degenerate play patterns and its awkward and frankly poor design?
similarly their citing of certain data points but not including all the data they looked at isnt some deliberate attempt at deceive or hide anything. there isnt some set of immutable guidelines for ban decisions where some burden of proof exists. they are just people designing a game, and they adapt the 'rules' as they see fit in order to craft what they believe is a more enjoyable environment. so you either agree or you dont, and in turn you trust them or you dont. i get that players, especially ones that might use this forum/thread, would delight in more transparency; however it behooves wizards not to share everything they look at and the specifics because its needlessly constrains future decisions by setting precedent/expectations that most will likely misinterpret.
i mean did anything about the announcement seem unreasonable if taken at face value? regardless if anyone believed bridgevine didnt ultimately cross some line, i dont believe it can be argued the deck w/ bridge wasnt at least a borderline case.
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- Galerion
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Jul 10, 20197
tronix posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)Posted in: Modern Archives -
Jul 9, 20192
Lectrys posted a message on 7/8 B&R Announcement - Bridge from Below banned in ModernPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from the n00b king »Quote from Cranial_extraction »Quote from the n00b king »Quote from Cranial_extraction »Quote from the n00b king »
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection. -
Jul 7, 201911
Earthbound21 posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)As these forums drift to the internet graveyard, I would like to share a few parting thoughts. I joined this website nearly a decade ago, when Modern was announced. I spent a lot of time reading these forums, and little bit of time posting on these forums. I played through all the bannings and unbannings, each and every one, and I have to say that Modern is fine. It was always fine and it will always be fine. Formats don't last for ten years if they aren't fine. That Origins forward format that no one remembers? Gone. Didn't even last a year. Modern has the ability to correct itself and when it doesn't, Wizards takes action. These forums, at one place, were a veritable hive of real discussion. And to those people, I say;Posted in: Modern Archives
Modern is fine, and will be fine.
This website is a veritable treasure trove of deck lists, deck musings, deck theory, and it's all nicely categorized for anyone who wanted to seek this information. Mad respect to the people who contributed in a meaningful and the organizers who made the meaningful things easy to find. My hat is off to all of your collective hard work for the past ten years. Sheridan is a goddamn treasure, and his writings here and on modern nexus are real gems in a sea of low effort deck list 'articles' by people who play the game for a living. I have nothing but respect for you Sheridan. You do the good work.
However, the people on these forums, idSurge and cfusionpm and the other handful of the rest of them that drive their agenda down peoples throats and parrot the same tired lines with their free time for the better part of the past ten years saying that Modern is awful and stifling meaningful discussion; You guys won't be missed. You've wasted all of your time, and by extensions a lot of our time with your regurgitated, entitled, petulant crap. The amount of pure garbage that the group of you used to domineer conversations that could have otherwise been productive is staggering, to say the least. Whatever platform you find yourselves on after this ship sinks, know that the lot of you are at least in part responsible for driving participation down and costing the website views purely to satiate your internet egos.
MTGSalvation, goodnight. Sleep well.
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Apr 17, 20192
Descendant of Urza posted a message on Reddit Leak: Gideon's (SPOILER ALERT)While this surely isn't how I expected Liliana's death to be averted (and it feels kinda cheap TBH), I'm just happy she makes it. I myself was surprised by how much the War of the Spark trailer which seemed to show her dying impacted me. Apparently to me she was that kind of girl you don't realize you love until the moment you're about to lose her.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
Excuse me now, I suddenly feel like giving my foil Liliana of the Veil a mini-hug…
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Apr 5, 20194
EstravenEternal posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsI have very strong opinions on the Nahiri story line.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
First, although she was moved by vengeance I do not consider villainous to lure Emrakul to Innistrad: When Emrakul was set free she left the plane, where was she before she arrived to Innistrad? ravaging another plane. So the question is why should another plane, full of innocent people suffer first? if you know you cant't deal with an interplanar threat, at least you can save innocent planes, by sending it to wicked places. And Innistrad is a ver dark plane, so dark that even the trees murder. So dark that humans should have gone extinct were it not for Avacyn.
Responsibilities: I blame Sorin for leaving the multiverse in danger. Bolas would not have been able to unlock them with Nahiri protecting them. By trapping her and not caring to defeat those that tried to unlock the titans, he doomed the plane and set in risk many more, a much bigger plane than Innistrad. Millions died because of his actions. But did he care? no, because he knew his plane was protected.
On the personal feud: Nahiri never hated him, she went searching for him because she felt maybe he was in danger. When he told her he never bothered to care, it was not only a petty thing, but a betrayal to their friendship. He also said he could have murdered her right away when they met the first time, but he spared her, as if she owed her life to him, would any sane person say that to a friend? to any person? he is so selfish and narcissistic.
Finally on the player base reception: I see a lot of misogynyst subtext here, if you check out most of the social media reactions to her story, you find over and over the same kind of sexist narrative ''she is a *****'', ''she is just a pissed ex girl friend'', '' she is the epitome of crazy *****'' etc. I am just quoting the stuff I have read in reddit, mythic spoiler,etc. The thing is that they are more willing to forgive him just because he has this cool '' I do what I please'' vibe, if roles were reversed they would still support him, because a male vampire is more relatable than an angry woman. Even if morally she has better arguments and justifications.
Anyways I hope the character evolves in a sensible way, I expect her to be reasonable once she finds out Bolas released the titans, that Ugin was killed, and that the gatewatch saved the plane.
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Apr 5, 20193
AtraxianShade posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsPosted in: The Rumor Mill
Nahiri is about to give the killing blow to Sorin. Ugin appears and pats her on the shoulder.Quote from The Fluff »Quote from Manite »Just wait til she learns Sorin actually did show up on Zendikar later to try and re-strengthen the seal, only for Nissa to break it. And that Jace, Chandra, Sarkhan, and Bolas all had a hand in the Eldrazi being released as well. And then we have Ob Nixilis with his hatred for Nahiri, Nissa, and the Gatewatch.
Quote from MarkXero »BUT, and this is my real gripe with it all, the whole damned storyline of their fight and Nahiri ending up in the vault was just so James Wyatt could have Emrakul come to Innistrad and feck it up. It was totally contrived to facilitate a storyline that I hated, because they butchered Innistrad, Avacyn, Gisela, Bruna etc. in the process, and they had to make both Sorin and Nahiri into ********s for it to happen. I hate everything about that creative decision. That's why I'm pissed that they're carrying it on here. They character-assassinated two walkers that I really liked, just to ruin the plane I most liked. I genuinely stopped following the Magic storyline after that for a couple of years until Ixalan.
And now we get an in-your-face reminder that they chose to make Sorin and Nahiri into ********s for no good reason.
Post-script: All the character attributes that made Sorin a cool, detached character have now been given to Davriel. I hope he doesn't get fecked over by creative the same way. Leave him safely in Brandon Sanderson's hands please.
I hear you. While Innistrad isn't one of my favorites, I liked how Avacyn Restored ended the original block. The plane's problems weren't completely gone, the balance of light and darkness was simply restored. I had hoped that a return visit would add a fourth Angel sister who would serve as the main antagonist, returning after being banished or sealed away for a long time (say, in the Helvault?) Then SOI comes along and completely trashes AVR's hopeful ending.
Sorin reminded me of Castlevania's Alucard when I first saw him (just look at Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - still his coolest card), and seeing that he was a black-aligned character who wasn't outright evil was refreshing. Yeah, he could be jaded and a jerk, but there was an underlying vibe of good intentions. Then SOI comes along and makes it clear he only created Avacyn so the Vampires' feeding stock wouldn't die out, leaving the Vampires to feed on each other. And thus he became more and more typical Vampire, and more and more typical black. At this point him having white feels like a joke, he might as well be monoblack or even BR like the Vampires he once deviated from.
And seeing that Nahiri was a Kor with an Equipment focus made her really cool when I first saw her; I've loved Equipment ever since I started playing the game. And the Kor were one of my favorite parts about Zendikar because of their close association with Equipment. Then SOI comes along and turns her into a rage-blinded ***** who callously tears apart families by bringing Emrakul to Innistrad, becoming worse than Sorin. Like Sorin, she doesn't deserve the white mana in her cost at this point.
So yeah, SOI ruined their potential as characters. Maybe it was intended from the get-go, but that's no excuse for teasing us with something cooler than what we got.
Nahiri should definitely know about those things. How the seal was broken, and all those involved.
As for what's inside your spoiler tag. Nahiri being a Kor and equipment related, that made her sort of unique for me. Her swords are even called "Stoneblades" --- the name of a deck in legacy. How cool is that! ^__^
Ugin: "Ehy, it wasn't his fault. You see that elf dressed in green, that guy with dragons, the soyboy in blue and the chick with the head on fire? Those ones freed the Eldrazi in the first place. Sorin came to warn me about them."
Nahiri: "So... I think I'll kill them too."
Ugin: "Spare the dragon guy, I owe him one... And if you could give me a hand killing my brother, I would appreciate it." -
Apr 4, 2019
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AUTUMNTWILIGHT posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsTo be fair Ugin has a way better excuse then Sorin.Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
Apr 4, 2019
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Xeruh posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Solanj »Quote from Xeruh »I... never said they were mutually exclusive. Saying "it wasn't just vengeance" clearly says that she's doing both. Are you saying that luring them to some random unrelated plane would have been better? Presuming that they'd be populated as well.
She wasn't trying to kill him. She wanted to drag him back to Zendikar.
And locking someone up forever when someone is trying to make you honor your promise to me is an overreaction. Don't make promises you can't keep, especially when you're making promises just to serve your own interests.
Actually, no. At this point she did not need his help ("She did not, in fact, need Sorin's help. Not anymore.") and kept fighting him to 'earn his respect'. She didn't plan to kill him either, but Sorin had no way to know that and, given that he was significantly weakened at the moment, the fight was dangerous for him..
So locking someone who is actively beating you is clearly self-defence, especially if the fact that it happens to be forever isn't something you can control.
(And even that he did only after Nahiri started to overpower Avacyn in battle, so it was also to protect Avacyn and Innistrad, not only himself.)
Though they all (including Ugin and actually most Oldwalkers) totally are absolute ********s, this I can't argue.
Not needing his help right then doesn't exempt him from the promise though. And dangerous isn't the same as fatal, especially for an Oldwalker. And you can very much control whether or not you choose to imprison someone in a magical artifact for eternity. If he hadn't acted incredibly rude and dismissive to a threat that he had said he'd help with and had neglected it wouldn't have gone that way. -
Apr 4, 2019
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Xeruh posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsI... never said they were mutually exclusive. Saying "it wasn't just vengeance" clearly says that she's doing both. Are you saying that luring them to some random unrelated plane would have been better? Presuming that they'd be populated as well.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
She wasn't trying to kill him. She wanted to drag him back to Zendikar.
And locking someone up forever when someone is trying to make you honor your promise to me is an overreaction. Don't make promises you can't keep, especially when you're making promises just to serve your own interests.
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Apr 3, 20193
Gutterstorm posted a message on Sorin and Nahiri cardsIs it so hard to imagine that Nahiri is rightfully pissed at Sorin? It doesn’t justify what she did to Innistrad. However Sorin was her friend and mentor for thousands of years before she had to sound the alarm that he had promised to answer. And when he didn’t, the start of her feeling betrayed, she went looking for him only for him to tell her “sorry I was to busy setting up my home security system.” And then when she got upset with him he locked her in the Helvault and just left her there. Not like he couldn’t have let her have a time out and then get her out when she’s cooled off. No he left her there for millenia while Avacyn was locking demons in there with her. Nahiri has a right to be upset with, and feel betrayed by, Sorin and Oldwalkers are known for their long memories. Again it doesn’t justify bringing Emrakul to Innistrad but it also isn’t just something you “get over.”Posted in: The Rumor Mill - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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I would wait if I were you. Hoogvine is technically still a deck but now it has to compete with Dredge and it could very well lose that comparison so people will leave it in droves. In that case Gravecrawler most certainly will fall.
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True but then don't make the mistake of comparing a deck specially targeted against UW against UW lists that don't target them back. Midrange is basically dead currently in the format so UW isn't really built with them in mind. It still has the natural advantage of the all the value its spells have but that's it.
If those decks that you have mentioned would actually be a big part of the metagame than UW would look different too. More Jaces, more Teferis, Sphinx's Revelation, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, stuff like Fact of Fiction, etc. You can reconfigure the entire deck basically.
I was joking with my comment about Midrange players being the salty ones but I don't think Im that far off because some of these salty people called UW Control "Tron 2.0" which is telling about them. I don't think they are wrong about that though. If Midrange ever gets big again Tron certainly won't be the only thing that will smell blood. That's for sure.
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The article has been pretty clear about it that the problem is the Magic Arena client and not Nexus of Fate. In paper there are judges and shortcuts. In the Magic Online client you will simply time out and lose the match if you want to loop endlessly. Arena has none of those things so you can actually loop endlessly and there is nothing you can do about it.
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In Standard certainly no Tier deck is casting that card. In cases like this it is safe to always assume Commander is the reason.
A 9 mana Mythic Rare Legendary Dinosaur. That's as hard a Timmy creature as it can get. Perfect for the format.
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Yes, I do.
I mean let's turn this around. Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned. Now what?
Then the format is suddenly fine? UW/x, BG/x, Humans, Spirits, Burn, Dredge, Tron, Titan, Scales, GDS, Storm, Hollow One, etc. all aren't going anywhere.
It's one thing to look at numbers absolutely objectively and say this might be better than others. It could be a problem.
It's another one when it becomes about personal enjoyment. When I play the game I certainly don't think "man those few KCI decks that I never face are way too good and ruin my fun". That's not how it works.
If anybody claims that a single deck that doesn't even has a high metashare is the only reason they are not enjoying a format and think it's not fine then they are only fooling themselves. KCI hasn't even shown to be a deck that suppresses certain kind of strategies. Decks like Phoenix on the other hand have definitely shown to annihilate certain kind of strategies. So you can ban KCI and it will do absolutely nothing because the format will be just as it is now just without KCI.
What an outstanding job! Well done. You have done something absolutely inconsequential instead of powering up other things via unbans.
If that line of action makes someone personally happy then whatever. I would only shake my head and shrug my shoulders in the face of it.
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https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/community-discussion/804002-for-my-account-was-just-deleted-users
People who didn't agree with the transfer got their accounts deleted and that obviously included Primers they have written. Looks like a huge oversight and something that have could have been thought of before.
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As always you never disappoint.
Something interesting things in the matchup section that surprised me or reaffirmed my feelings.
For example Jeskai having that poor of a Burn matchup in this data set surprised me. I mean that's one of the few matchups where Lightning Helix can truly shine.
UW pulling way ahead of Jeskai on the other hand isn't surprising. I already said it before but the sacrifices you make in Jeskai are questionable IMO. The difference in the Tron matchup being the best example of it and it's not like UW actually has trouble with heavy creature decks as this shows. I mean Terminus is there for a reason. Spirits is an exception but then Jeskai is still only dead even against it in this data set so yeah whatever.
Funnily enough this even shows why the last GP Top 8 probably turned out the way it did. Spirits does pretty good against KCI but it in turn gets picked apart by the Phoenix decks and indeed there was no Spirits in the Top 16 while 4 Phoenix decks were so KCI got one of it's bad matchups cleaned away all the way to the top. How convenient.
What's the takeaway of that? Blame Arclight Phoenix for everything bad
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Poor Jeskai. Not beating anything
But then Im personally not a fan of sacrificing late-game power and the best sweeper in the format for a bunch of burn spells.
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Look you don't have to convince me. Unban it or let it rot forever on the banlist. I honestly don't care and can live with either.
But I personally value facts and data over assumptions and guesses which brings us the point about you complaining about myths and misinformation. You actually do the same thing and as ktkenshinx pointed out the Thoughtseize/Abrupt Decay deck only had a 50/50 matchup against Twin. Something that you claimed as a bad matchup.
People like you should stop underselling the deck. It only hurts your credibility. People are not stupid and it's easy see through an obvious agenda.
If you are too biased to do that then you will never have an actual discussion on here or anywhere else that leads to anything.
Just my 2 cents.