MTG Salvation

As far as "good for something" I think it's a big card in EDH, especially thanks to the awesomeness that is Kaalia of the Vast.

I personally build my decks to either the Vintage or Legacy restricted/ban lists (depends on the goals of the deck). One of my good friends builds all his decks Vintage legal. Other then us though, no one seems to follow any of the lists that I've noticed (I know one guy runs 3 copies of Balance in one deck).

I don't really care for the most part, but for myself I have a few reasons I choose to do it;
1) As long as a deck is built to one of those lists then I don't feel bad taking it out against an unknown person in casual and usually won't even mention which format it's legal in (unless I suspect they are running a Standard legal deck).
2) If I win I don't want my opponent to be able to say something like "I could win too if I ran 4 Sol Rings!".
3) It's a form of self-control.

All that being said, I think it should really come down to the group. What does your group consider Casual? Do they believe it should be decks that are below a certain power level or a place to play decks that wouldn't be allowed in a sanctioned event (or would lose in those events)? Most groups I've heard about seem to run the Legacy list, but there are some that create their own (I know one poster on another site said his group banned Hymn to Tourach!). Whatever rules (or lack there of) that the majority are comfortable with, are probably the best options.

This seems like a fun and crazy deck. I still like the Zombie Infestation version but it's less consistent.

Hey Spooky,

I just want to say this is a great primer. Really well put together, with tons of info/deck ideas (almost too many, lol). I don't play Legacy myself; I really like it but 1) I usually can't make it out to any kind of event night thanks to the life-combo that is being a student and a father, and 2) Legacy is all but dead in my area and I don't want to drive 2 hours just to play (even if I had the time, lol).

That said I've always loved Legacy decks, but could never afford, nor justify, the cost/power of a top deck for Casual play. Your lists have given me a few ideas for decks that I can slowly add to my collection over a period of time without feeling guilty about the cost/investment.

Anyways, keep it up man. Between this and Squandered Resources, you're doing a lot for MTG players who want to play a real format (yeah i said it!) but still want to eat, lol.

Cheers.

@Symphonic: Leyline of Sanctity is solid and I can't believe I forgot Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker. I actually considered Kor Firewalker and/or Paladin en-Vec for the Board.

I like Knight of the Holy Nimbus; as far as the last Knight being a 2-drop the main reason was I thought that 12 3-drops + 6 4-drops would be a bit much on 20 lands (and I don't feel like upping the land count in this deck).

@squira13: Durp. I had her in the original post above that one but left her out of the final plan. Good catch; it has been rectified (Day of Judgement without her would be a bad move, lol).

Quote from Card Slinger J

I'd definitely run 3-4 Breeding Pool for 3-4 Intruder Alarm and 3-4 Tradewind Rider. Why? Intruder Alarm has amazing synergy with Elves especially when running Heritage Druid with Nettle Sentinel as well. As for Cloudstone Curio it's got the best synergy with Intruder Alarm but you'll need something to deal with Torpor Orb which kills this deck in a heartbeat especially the Gideon Jura combo with Lightmine Field. Nullmage Shepherd perhaps? Or what about Viridian Zealot?

As for Tradewind Rider he's there for board control especially If you decide to run Intruder Alarm to untap all your Elves to do more stuff. I would recommend running 2-3 Reminisce incase your opponent blows up your board with Day of Judgment. Also no Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in here? Why no late game fattie aside from Craterhoof Behemoth pumping your dudes for game? Ezuri, Renegade Leader is alright but nowhere near as good as Emrakul or Craterhoof IMO. Finally I would add in 3-4 Manamorphose for mana accel and more drawpower unless you're okay with running Distant Melody.

I'm guessing Emmy isn't here because the OP said he doesn't want to spend a ton of cash and the Spaghetti Monster is a $40 card? Just a thought

Though on that note, if you did go the Fatty route I would also consider Progenitus; 1) He's less then $15 now thanks to MM (which also used the original and superior art) 2) He's searchable via GSZ.

Quote from Xyx

"Casual Elf Combo" is a bit of an oxymoron, but I ran something like this anyway:

Elves!Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Elves 4 Elvish Archdruid 4 Elvish Visionary 4 Priest of Titania 4 Quirion Ranger 4 Wirewood Symbiote 1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves 1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary 1 Sylvan Messenger 1 Wirewood Herald	Stuff 4 Genesis Wave 4 Green Sun's Zenith 2 Regal Force 1 Akroma's Memorial 1 Asceticism 1 Eldrazi Monument 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre 1 Vedalken Orrery	Lands 13 Forest 4 Wirewood Lodge 1 Dryad Arbor 1 Gaea's Cradle

Note the complete and total absence of Llanowar Elves and ilk.

The plan is to cast Genesis Wave for X=7 on turn 4, flip into Akroma's Memorial, Regal Force and a few more mana elves, and immediately cast another Genesis Wave, this time for X=23 or whatever and raaaghsmashkill everyone with flying spaghetti monsters. All smooth and casual, of course.

An alternative version could feature Natural Order for Craterhoof Behemoth. Because who wants to play five turns of Magic anyway?

This thread has now got my attention back on Combo Elves (I've always loved the idea and I'd like to eventually have a Mono Tribal deck for each color) once I finish my Knight deck. This looks like a solid list (though a few pieces are out of my price range; most notably the Cradle and Eldrazi) but out of curiosity, why is "Casual Combo Elves" an oxymoron? Also, do you think the deck would function on only 19 lands without the Cradle?

On a side note, it blows my mind that Priest of Titania was a common! Oh Urza Block, how I love thee!

@ExImperialDragon: I'll probably start with 2/2 split and adjust as needed. I can't think of any BIG red or black decks. Mostly they are decks that run black/red or Goblins/Vamps/Zombies.

@Xyx: Knight-Captain of Eos is solid but at 5-cmc he's pretty costly.

@Shale WarBringer: I've considered Haarkon but then it becomes a completely different deck. I'm am going with the Meadowgrain for sure though; Lifelink against aggro is always nice.

@theMeddler: I actually chose Hero of Blade Hold over the Cavalier as my 4-drop. The Cavalier is great the turn I drop it, if I have other Knights on the board but otherwise it's a 2/2 Double Strike for 4. It's still a Must-answer threat, but the Hero is a one woman army.

I think the final list will probably look something like this;


SB still needs work. I may up the Law/Grace to 3-of each for consistency if nothing else.

Thanks again for the input.

No worries. I actually only found that card last night when I did a Gatherer search for Enchantments with Hexproof :). Glad you like it.

I'm really hoping the Heirach gets reprinted. Enough to cut the prices by at least half (more would be nice but not likely) and I'd consider picking some up.

The Geist is a Win-Con on his own. Slap Exalted bonuses onto him and you have a GG.

Wow, thanks for the response guys.
I should have posted a deck list (as the remaining part of the deck is pretty much complete).


@DarkKnightCavalier: I really like Paladin en-Vec, but unless you're up against red Mirran Crusader has him beat all day; I have considered him for the SB (I did plan MB but 12 3-drops + 4 4-drops seemed a bit much) but not sure if I want to dedicate 4 spots in the SB to him.

My only concern with the White/Silver Knights is that my meta has a wide range of deck types and the Protections may be meaningless a lot of the time.

@GibbonMonk: Yeah, this is a more traditional WW/Knight deck. The only equipment will be the Basilisk Collar. I chose that because most of the Knights have First Strike which pairs fantastic with Deathtouch.

@ExImperialDragon: I like the Accorder Paladin but he seems so fragile (3/1 for 2 with Battle Cry is solid though). I may keep HotP as that is hard to deal with (Thought I do have 3 spots to work with and keeping both would have it's benefits).

I think I may take your idea of the Absolute Law/Absolute Grace in the Board. I could always side out HotP for one of them. How many of each do you run?

@Xyx: Those are probably going to be 2 of the 3 I go with. Would you chose a different Knight (then the ones I've listed) for the 3rd spot?

So as it stands I think I'll go with;
Knight of Meadowgrain and Knight of the White Orchid. I just need to fill that last spot and finish the SB.

Thanks again for the feedback guys. Cheers.

Edit:
@squira13: You posted while I was writing my response. You summed it up well. As I said, the Pro Red/Black can really help at times but it's not a consistent enough issue. Which leaves Knight of Meadowgrain, Knight of the White Orchid and Leonin Skyhunter as the best options with either the White/Silver in the Board or Absolute Law/Grace.

On a side not this was inspired by the Legacy Knights deck you posted in your Primer (which I really dig and has lead me to wanting a few different decks). Obviously this is a budget version (no Jitte or Elspeth) but I think it should fair well enough.

Thanks again guys.

Deck looks pretty solid. I've been playing around with the idea of a Bant Exalted deck and you've re-peaked my interest (also thanks for introducing me to Knotvine Paladin :)).

I do agree with Xyx though; I would probably not go for the Cloak. Since you're already running Rancor the Greaves would be great as you can: Play a creature, cast Rancor, equip the Greaves, and beat face! Another option would be Alpha Athority.

Good luck with the deck

Side note: It makes me sad every time I see/think about a Bant Exalted deck that Noble Heirarch is so expensive

I'm building a Mono-White Knight deck and have slots for 3 2-drop Knights. I'm trying to decide which 3 of the following to main deck and was wondering what you guys would choose and why:
Leonin Skyhunter
Pros:
-Flying (almost always useful)
Cons:
-The only one in the list without First Strike

Knight of the White Orchid
Pros:
-Can act as potential ramp.
Cons:
-Not really worth dropping before T3 (or T4 if on the play).
-Pushes you to choose to draw (as opposed to being on the play).

Knight of the Meadowgrain
Pros:
-Lifelink
Cons:
-? It's a Kithkin?

White Knight
Pros:
-Doesn't die to Zombies, Doom Blade, most Vampires, etc. (somewhat relevant in my meta)
-He's a classic
Cons:
-When not facing Black he's worse then KotWO and KoM

Silver Knight
Pros:
-Doesn't die to Burn or Goblins (again, somewhat relevant in my meta)
Cons:
-See above.


So if you had to choose 3 of these guys to run, which would you go with?

Quote from hamberglar

Why do we call it LEDless when we could call it UnLEDed?

I prefer playing with LED, but I wish I could call my deck something punny like that.

Once I get my deck built I'm officially referring to it as UnLEDed Dredge, and will convice my playgroup to do the same.

Quote from JPoJohnson

Just short and sweet answers:

Adding DR targets means you have dead cards in hand. Removing them creates more consistency.

LEDless > Manaless.
LED >= LEDless.

I've seen LEDless hold its own, but it is less explosive.

Short and sweet works for me.

As far as the consistency issue, that was the impression I was getting from those who had dropped the DR targets.

As far as the Manaless vs. LEDless vs. LED that's about what I figured. LED's are just way out of my price range (literally and psychologically).

Thanks for the feedback. Cheers.

@the Black Mamba: Thanks for the feedback. I will probably proxy it up to test it (I do that with most deck ideas; especially ones that would be a decent investment).

@asw122: I agree that fun is subjective, luckily I like decks that have the potential to curb-stop people, lol. I wouldn't be able to play the deck all the time, but there are enough powerful decks in my group that it could hit the table frequently enough (even if it is 2 vs. 1 like you mentioned); though I do get what you mean about OP decks being less fun to play on a regular basis (unless everyone has them). I currently have a few other decks on the table but I like to plan ahead and get ideas.

With that said, thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate it. If/when I do get the deck built I will probably be back on this thread reading about playing the deck optimally. Cheers.

Another quick question: I've been reading the forum (backwards since the most recent posts are more representative of current metas) and I was noticing a pattern; have most people outright stopped running dedicated DR targets, and fewer DRs in general or is that a select few people? I just remember the old builds I read about (that got me interested) ran Flame-Kin Zealot (or Elesh Norn), Iona, something else (Griselbrand more recently). Do people simply rely on Cabal Therapy to get zombies and just win with them? Since I plan on casual I have more flexibility, but I'm still curious (in case I decide to take it to a tournament)

A third question: I've read a bit about Manaless Dredge. If LED's are out of the question ($80 a piece!) is the Original LEDless still the optimal choice? There doesn't seem to be much about Manaless Dredge that I can find but I've looked it up (SCG) and it seems interesting. I'm assuming MLD is more susceptible to hate?