MTG Salvation

@asw122: Don't worry man, I'm not judging. If it's your thing and you can afford it, go for it. I'm a student (again?!?!) and a father. Right now I simply can't swing cards like that ($20-30 cards are my "money cards" right now, and even those I have to budget, lol). Add in the fact that Legacy is dead in my area (unless I drive 2 hours just to play a small tournament) and the motivation just isn't there.

@asw122: Thanks for the additional input and the explanation. The inclusion of Tribe over Looting makes much more sense now.

@Macius: As far as LEDless vs. LED basically equaling Stability vs. Pure Power that's what I've picked up reading over the Primer. I'm happy to gain some stability at the loss of some power if it saves me $360. (I can't really say save since I can't see me ever spending that on 4 cards).

Thanks guys for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Quote from asw122

Ok, if you absolutely can't afford LED, I wouldn't go with quadlazer. Go with the old school LEDless build. Means a few changes, but nothing hugely expensive.

Here's the LEDless lists I tend to favour:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1x Flame-Kin Zealot 1x Iona, Shield of Emeria 4x Golgari Grave-Troll 4x Golgari Thug 4x Stinkweed Imp 4x Ichorid 4x Narcomoeba 4x Putrid Imp 2x Tireless Tribe	4x Bridge from Below 4x Breakthrough 4x Cabal Therapy 4x Careful Study 2x Dread Return 4x Cephalid Coliseum 4x City of Brass 4x Gemstone Mine 2x Undiscovered Paradise	Sideboard 4x Chain of Vapor 1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite 4x Firestorm 3x Leyline of the Void 3x Nature's Claim

Iona can be switched for something else if she doesn't fit your meta and paradise can be tarnished citadel just as easily.

Thanks for the input. Yes, LEDs are out of my price range (literally and psychologically). I like that build (and yes Iona will work in my group). Is there a specific reason you prefer Tireless Tribe over Faithless Looting?

Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it.

Quote from asw122

If you want to play quadlazer, you cut the dread returns. It earned its name because every card is 4-of.

Its more consistent, but significantly less blatantly powerful without DR. If you want the power of DR, I'd say -1 thug, -1 ichorid in the main, +1 FKZ, +1 DR target of your choice (second one is meta dependant)

What should I run iin place of the 2 DR's? I know the original build I've seen ran LED's but those are out of my price range.

So if I kept the DR's and cut 1 Ichorid and Thug I should still keep the Lootings?

Awhile back, I posted asking some question about Dredge. This is the idea I've come up with so far.

To start: this will mostly be for casual play, but I posted here because 1) You guys will have the best advice as you all play the deck regularly 2) Once I have the deck built, I will be more inclined to hunt down local (or relatively local as it's dead in my immediate area) Legacy events and would like the deck to be as optimized as I can afford (no LED's).

Anyway, the deck is based on/inspired by the Quadlazer build but minus the LED's (for budget reasons). In their place I added 2 more lands (up to 14 like a typical LEDless deck) and 2 Dread Return's; these act as a sacrifice engine (when I don't need more Therapies) and as a bonus I can nab a fat Grave-Troll.

So I have a few questions:
1) Is the "Quadlazer" base the way to go? It was recommened I cut the MD returns, but what should I add in their palce? Or should I cut a few draw spells, and a Golgari Thug to add a couple of main deck DR targets? Flame-Kin Zealot, Iona, Sphinx of Lost Truths etc.?
2) Another card I've considered is Street Wraith - it's free, uncounterable card draw at instant speed, which can have it's uses. I'm just not sure what to cut to add it in.
3) Another consideration is cutting 2 Lands and the 2 DR's and 4 Looting to add in 4 Lotus Petals and 4 One with Nothing - not nearly as consistent as LED + Looting but can give me the potential for really fast starts.

Any advice you guys can give me is greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Yeah that's a fair assessment. This won't be my go-too deck at all, but it will have some competition in my meta. I've wanted to build it for awhile but when BFB was a $15 card (on top of the rest of the deck) I couldn't be bothered (since I can't justify using it often) but now that the deck is much more budget friendly I really want to build it. It may also give me the push to try and find some Legacy events locally (or somewhat locally). That said, I want to post this in Legacy section as well since the Dredge players can probably help a lot as well.

I like the One with Nothing, though using it first turn may be a waste as I'll have no draw spells in hand and nothing I can cast from the yard (no Mana for Looting). I could try cutting 2 lands, 2 DR's and 4 Looting to add 4 Lotus Petals and 4 One with Nothing. It will give me the opportunity for obscene first turn plays (though obviously not as consistent as LED's)

I added the Dread returns for 2 reasons 1) I needed 3 cards to fill out the deck. 2) I remember seeing some builds that used DR in the Main without any dedicated targets solely as a sacrifice engine for more zombies. As I said, I could always cut the Looting and go to a more typical LEDless build.

As far as the numbers (of lands and Thugs etc), that kind of fine tuning will probably come down to testing.

Thanks for the input

What should I run in it's place? I was using it mostly as a sac outlet for mass zombies and a Troll (and to take up less SB space - this way if I side in an actual DR target I'll easily have 2-3 DR's in the deck).

As i said this was an adaption from LED Quad Lazer. I could always go back to the typical LEDless version without Looting and add in couple of DR targets.

The other thought I had for the MD was dropping 2 lands and 2 DR for 4 Street Wraith - it's free, uncounterable draw and a creature to exile for Ichorid; but I don't think 12 lands (4 of the being Cephalid Coliseum) would be enough.

Dredge has been a deck that has always interested me, and now that Bridge From Below has dropped significantly (now about $5), I've been thinking even more about it. I've been checking out the Legacy Dredge primer for ideas and so far this is what i cam up with;

It's based on the Quadlazer build but minus the LED's (for obvious budget reasons). In their place I added 2 more lands (up to 14 like a typical LEDless deck) and 2 Dread Return's; these can net me a decent sized Grave-Troll while also giving me a sac outlet for Narcomeoba's if I feel I don't need to cast multiple Therapies.

So my question is, how does it look? I'm not sure if the "Quadlazer" build is right without LED's. Does this look like it may work, or should I go back to a more typical LEDless build without Looting and add in a couple of DR targets MD?

Quote from DarkNightCavalier

Wouldn't Geth's Verdict work better than Devour Flesh? True the matchup doesn't matter with lifegain much, unless he's running some lifegain deck which might be different.

I could suggest Doomblade, Go for the Throat, and Ultimate Price in case of bigger things that the smaller stuff like Disfigure can't go through.

I'm guessing the Devour Flesh is due to the mana cost? BB can be hard to cast at times with colorless lands.

On top of the cards you mentioned is Victim of Night; but that has the same BB issue.

Quote from Honor Basquiat

Yeah I understand, although I did mention in the original post twice that the deck was Modern, I also mentioned this in the title of the thread.

I'm still looking for feedback from anyone by the way, positive and constructive as well as any questions or concerns.

Yeah it's my fault. I saw the title and I think I subconsciously ignored the Modern part (seriously, all I remember seeing was "Swag Flu - Budget Mono Black Infect"), and when I was skimming the post (because I remembered reading it before) I didn't notice the Modern part again. Sorry about that.
I do like the deck though (I adapted the name for my MB Infect - the list in my sig. is out of date though as the deck is out of commission right now being modified), and did get some ideas from your original thread. I just made mine Vintage legal since I play it in casual.

Yeah that's fair. I usually assume decks posted in Casual are either Legacy or Vintage legal. I think I may have had this same discussion with you over at WotC MTG forum (I use a different name there).

If you play against a lot of multi-colored decks you can always try out Skyshroud Elite as well.

Quote from Honor Basquiat

The instant speed matters a lot. Suppose I go first, and on your second turn you play Hamlet Captain, I can play Disfigure at the end of your turn to kill it, and on my turn play another land followed by a Phyrexian Crusader. If I was playing Dead Weight instead, I wouldn't be able to do this play, and I'd be an entire turn behind.

I also agree with Disfigure: 9 times out of ten it's used as removal so having it at Instant speed can be very important.

Hymn to Tourach > Wrench Mind (and still relatively budget)

I think he's really at home in EDH. A Mono-B deck with Sheoldred, Whispering One as the Commander maybe? Maybe Grixis (his home Shard) colored with Thraximundar or Lord of Tresserhorn as the Commander? I just can't see him really being strong enough for focus a deck around, even for casual.