If you are comparing this to flying men you're doing it wrong...
No, both are 1/1 fliers for 1. Yes, this guy is clearly better, but at the end of the day there are very few decks I've made that want artifact colorless flying men, and the upside of a semi-reliable semi-silence effect is certainly not enough to make up for the fact that it's a 1/1 flier for 1. That's not a good card, and the second half doesn't make it one either.
Not a mb card. Will definitely see wide eternal play in both combo decks and aggro creature decks *sideboards*. Just the fact that xantid swarm is in modern now is kind of a big deal.
You are posting the the wrong forum. This is the cube discussion thread
ok this makes so much more sense now. It's just the card doesn't have a discussion thread yet so I stumbled upon this and thought it just wasn't linked yet. This seems pretty bad in cube lol...it's almost like this is just a colorless flying men
If you are comparing this to flying men you're doing it wrong...
No, both are 1/1 fliers for 1. Yes, this guy is clearly better, but at the end of the day there are very few decks I've made that want artifact colorless flying men, and the upside of a semi-reliable semi-silence effect is certainly not enough to make up for the fact that it's a 1/1 flier for 1. That's not a good card, and the second half doesn't make it one either.
Not a mb card. Will definitely see wide eternal play in both combo decks and aggro creature decks *sideboards*. Just the fact that xantid swarm is in modern now is kind of a big deal.
If you are comparing this to flying men you're doing it wrong...
Edit: I always forget to make clear that I'm not talking about standard. It's very possible this thing will not be played at all in standard. I'm an eternal player.
This will definitely be tried in Modern B/W Tokens. Seems pretty good, albeit a bit underpowered, but the fact that you can just get tokens for things you want to do anyway, namely fetching, looks ok. And that's without building around revolt, which may actually have some incentive in modern to do so, given Fatal Push...I don't expect this to do anything serious in Modern, but it does look interesting, and like I said, will FOR SURE be tested, might even make Tokens have a small resurgence online.
I have been fiddling with Moon/Bridge lists a lot recently. Beating remand/leak lists is most likely when Rest in Peace is main deck- I use 3 copies- stopping Snappy CA is key. I just get fed up with those snappy/remand tricks,a nd RIP is a decent meta shout anyway. Ajani is pretty good in the match too. If the control deck is a Nahiri UWR one and it lands her early its much harder to win game 1, even if you use O ring type cards and burn.
S field is better in landkill decks, without that it is not so stellar unless it does some other job- eg count toards enchantments in Pillow-Fort builds.
One solution for UR- matches is to board into Obliterate, if you are Enchantment heavy you get a good board to work with. It still does not solve Nahiri, but Pithing Needling her allows time to get rid of her.
One for Jund and decay decks in general is Karma. They need to draw the Pulse pretty quickly.
I like Outpost siege too against both UWR-X and BG-x, if you get enough cards like ATL, and Siege, i.e. ones that rapidly need answers, you can win games. C n P Nalaar works ok too.
I have been dabbling with a bridge build, and was pretty happy with Outpost siege. Lately I saw Chandra, Pyromaster mentioned in the thread, and she might be a minor upgrade.
2RR should effectively be the same as 3R in this deck.
Herr +0 ability does exactly the same as Outpost siege(@Khans). This is the mode I would expect to use the most.
The +1 isn't great, but might be able to deal with an annoying utility creature here and there. This seems pretty potent vs a deck like Soul Sisters or Elves. Could also help contain an opposing PW.
I wouldn't expect the ultimate to be used very often.
Of course, a planes walker is a bit more vulnerable than an enchantment, but if it takes a bullet (i.e. a Lightning Bolt or an attack) for the player, isn't that ok?
She can be disabled by Pithing Needle effects whereas OS is a triggered ability. Shouldn't be a big deal though.
I have also been having difficulties with Ux counter heavy decks. Boil seems like the perfect SB card. Not sure how to tweak the main deck, though. Here is my current (rough) list for reference:
Any comments on the deck are welcome. The Scepters are a bit of an experiment. They are obv. vulnerable to removal, but if they take an Abrupt Decay for a bridge, that is typically an acceptable trade. They also help empty the hand. If the Scepters go, the Boros Charms go with them. The main purpose of Boros Charm is to protect the lock pieces. Not a great solution as it is rather situational.
Forgot to put this here. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13466
Boros Control, our sort of stuff Chalice, Leylines, Boom Bust. A hybrid of Moon/Chalice/Bridge/Ajani type decks and Stax Landkill, only with a few more critters and no bridge.
I took some inspiration from the planeswalkers in that build. I have found chandra, flamecaller to be really good, which is way better than chandra, pyromaster
to be clear, her +1 takes over games if you don't have your bridge out.
If you are under bridge, then her +0 can cycle lands and redundant cards and provides real card advantage against Uxx and BGx decks.
Her -X is also bonkers because it adds 2 more sweepers, albeit really expensive, to the deck after the 2 wrath.
been dormant from this deck with the resurgence of blue counterspell decks when ancestral vision and sword were unbanned. My bridge version only had bad matchups against counterspells and rock decks. Since I run the full lockdown version, I was always frustrated that my lock pieces would barely make it, but eventually get killed. Spellskite was good, but not enough because fundamentally, lockdown doesn't work against jund. They'll eventually draw out of the blood moon and find an answer or whatever. Likewise, counterspells completely wreck you (holy remand batman) because they just get to keep playing their game while denying your lock. Terrible. I used to run things like defense grid/ricochet trap and outpost siege, but they ultimately are on the same axis as lock pieces. When the unban happened and mtgo became overrun with blue decks, I shelved the deck for a bit and played some other decks. I never lost my love for this archetype, and I always would play it hoping the heavy counterspell decks would subside. Lo, that day has come.
Blue is currently a lot more skewed to the "play proactive spells for reveler" type deals right now and heavy counterspell decks are at an all time low. This led me to some rethinking of the archetype and I came upon a pretty deep realization: you need threats against these decks. While lock piece are questions that require answers, they are not threatening per se. When I dropped suppression field earlier in my testing for the reason that it was ultimately a lock piece for planeswalkers (read liliana) because of similar reasons I explained above, I included Ajani in my sideboard, leery of including it main deck since I liked the idyllic tutor package I was running with Assemble the legion wincon. (As an aside, the other reason I dropped suppression field was because against anything other than midrange decks where it gave you time against fetchlands and planeswalkers, the other lock pieces I ran were far superior and left field feeling underwhelming). Ajani was always the most difficult thing for jund to deal with coupled with my other lock pieces. I was a true threat, albeit a weak one. I still like his ability to destroy lands, but it led me to search for planeswalker finishers to sub in for outpost siege. Chandra, Flamecaller is my current choice. In theory, Elspeth, sun's champion is more powerful, but double white under blood moon is not something I want to be searching for. I've had a crush on Chandra since she was printed and I think she is just so powerful. Can stabilize most boards that are under a bridge and can race effectively otherwise. Her 0 can eventually draw you into 3 cards to start attacking even under a bridge if you're trying to close out the game on an empty board against control. The key is that she is effective in both matchups like ajani. Anyway, list below
This deck is super unfair btw. Like I feel legitimately bad playing against some matchups. Against suicide zoo (the deck full of one drops, notorious for not playing basics, whose only hope to beat you with no creatures is direct damage) just now, third game on the play, I leyline, first turn plains ssg into chalice, second turn radiant fountain blood moon to their lone tapped godless shrine. I literally felt like a jerk.
Not much of an update since last time. card choices continue to be relevant and have proven their worth. Every component is necessary, and the idyllic tutor package is worth it every time. Gets the bullets you need or AtL when you need it. Torpor orb was increased to 2 slots when it proved itself against blue decks with snapcaster and vendilion, not to mention the main reason it is there: reclamation sage. That card is just silly against us. Cherry on top that it also shuts down various combos. singleton boom is great against grindy matchups for bust, but also for the annoying tron or arbor elf type ramp decks. affinity is not a bad matchup per se, you can just never truly lock them down because it's so easy for them to get under you and being able to pick off many noncreature artifacts is really what the deck needs to seal the deal once your lock is setup. If there is an uptick in affinity, you can just add another one over a nevermore (spell based combo decks are on the decline and it's not really needed but it's nice to bring something in for the helixes or what not). Only thing I kinda wish I had sometimes is a pithing needle/phyrexian revoker effect, but both have their pretty severe downsides which is why I still don't include them: being turned off by chalice (notice I don't run a single 1 drop) and turning on opponent's removal (only creature in the 75 is spellskite cause you know ssg don't count) respectively.
Anyway, I highly recommend running the deck right now. It's always been super powerful and only has 2 real bad matchups (and really it's remand/leak and decay), and the metagame is super hospitable to it right now. Matchup analysis below
Jund - you can't lock jund out because of all the axes it plays on. Nothing KO's it. that being said, RIP isn't bad, leyline is great, blood moon is traditionally great, nevermore is great against decay, wrath is good, ajani is good, bust is good, spellskite is good against decay, and of course recent addition chandra. It's not a terrible matchup, it's just hard and not ez mode like almost every matchup. Almost your entire sideboard is good against it.
Bant Eldrazi - Ensnaring bridge, wrath, torpor orb, blood moon, even chalice isn't terrible like against other eldrazi matchups.
Affinity - how can a deck with md stony and ways to tutor for it ever have a terrible matchup against affinity? spellskite is good, albeit the nonbo, chalice, wrath, blood moon (for nexus). Kinda slim pickins on super hateful cards, but shattering spree fills holes and can be upped in count
Infect - chalice, prison, moon, helix, bridge (eventually), spellskite, wrath are all good. pretty easy matchup
Merfolk - can be a tough matchup if they pack a lot of counters, but it's still a creature deck that has to battle through prison, bridge, helix, unlife, stony and chalice on 2.
dredge - stony silence is to affinity as rest in peace is to dredge. Again, still a creature deck that has to battle through prison, bridge, helix, unlife, moon (ish).
burn - leyline, chalice, helix, unlife is pretty much KO. blood moon is not even that bad
Tron - Not a great matchup, but moon, stony, o ring, nevermore, bust, and spellskite even pull some decent weight against them.
suicide zoo - See above. it's unfair how good this deck is against them.
Jeskai - the other baddie. Same deal as Jund. shave on a lot of things, but diversify. Planeswalkers for finishers.
RG Breach - bridge, moon, leyline, lock their main wincons. torpor orb from the side is great and bust can surprise them.
Ad nauseam - leyline, nevermore, chalice, stony, moon (ish), helix (for maniac) are all great. this is one of the matchups where nevermore shines. if it weren't for it's bonus use against decay, nevermore would be a looser choice. it's great against combo tho in a deck that is very dedicated to creature hate
Chord decks - could use a cage, but the one drop status is jarring. torpor orb, rip, prison, cage, moon, etc.
Bogles - bridge, spellskite, chalice, are great
Storm - tough and tense matchup since a timely echoing truth can beat us, but they have to get it before we lock them out completely with spellskite. leyline and prison lock out grapeshot and empty the warrens effectively so it's a matter of them finding anti hate
I'm losing steam but I hope you can see that the deck has great matchups
Edit: Chandra is really good fyi. The 0 is deceptively strong. Cashing in lands for gas is so good.
I'm not sure going all in on resto is what you want to do. It's just nice that wall blocks creature and has the synergy to boot. Also, I have found emrakul to not be a good plan A since she rarely wins the game on ultimate. Remember, she goes back to your hand at end of turn. Since you're not blowing their lands up, they can usually sacrifice them and still be in the game, and you don't run any burn, so the opp will be at 20 a lot of times. That's why she is in the board. I really only bring her in against matchups with a lot of removal where having the combo pieces is harder and you just want a standalone threat. Finks seems like the best inclusion here, but I think I would rather have sweepers to clear out multiple creatures. thay being said, if you don't want to go the lockdown route, then that may be something to explore.
So when I first built the permanent-based list I posted at the top of the page, I also dabbled with a version that eschewed the bridge in order to play the kiki combo. I never got it working well, didn't like LD versions that self-destructed lands postponing the combo and always lamented the splinter twin banning because fetching a singleton with idyllic tutor would be sick. So since Nahiri came out, I've been reading the forums and itching to brew with her. I finally pulled the trigger and immediately noticed how powerful she was with the combo. If you had either piece in hand she could win the game on ultimate; something you expect of a planeswalker. I started as a 2 of for budget reasons. I wanted more of her bad, so I got a 3rd. Played around and found some weakness to creature decks, so went with some red sweepers main instead of the lightning helixes. Since I don't have anything to draw into like bridge that stops the bleeding, sweepers had to to be the answer, albeit their nonbo with kiki jiki in play sans combo.
This version feels right. Nahiri + kiki jiki is the real deal. if it's not a chord deck like hoogland's (whose stream really propelled me to get the nahiris), I think prison provides a lot of benefits to the combo. Chalice can turn off virtually all relevant removal starting with bolt and path, ending with terminate and doom blade etc. Leyline protects your combo from discard and, relevantly, nahiri from burn. Spellskite main protects the combo. Blood moon at least buys time. SSG a turn 3 nahiri. ETC.
Yes that's an emrakul in the side, mmmm. It's a lot like the other list posted above but all in nahiri + kiki combo. to make room for the combo, the main deck sacrifices lightning helix and idyllic tutor, relegates the toolbox permanents to the sideboard, and replaces the bridge/prison package with wall of omens, spellskites and pyroclasms. The idea is that you need helix to survive until you get your locks down so you can draw into assemble, but with nahiri, you can just win faster. The wall of omens are great in this list since they hold off attacks mostly anything helix hits, effectively gaining you life, while digging you deeper to find the combo and protecting nahiri from attacks as well. The disenchants in the board are placeholders really, but have done their job. Generally speaking, this deck doesn't need all the specific hate cards in the lockdown list because it can end games with the combo, so I only include the most hateful ones in the board. Oh also, added 2 more lands to make sure I can pull off the combo, and temple is great to dig for it.
My only question is whether the anger and the o-rings should be flip flopped. While my main weakness is creature swarms without ghostly prison, double red can be painful. I also feel somewhat naked to planeswalkers if I don't have them main. The angers main might just be necessary, though I may end up just running a split.
Haha no no, you definitely said gemstone mine, so it's my bad. I see where you're going with that and you're right, it's a cool interaction to get untapped colored mana at first and then still tap for red later. Good luck with that build!
Suppression field is not really a card I'd ever want in non-landkill builds either (my Boros Bridge board control version has never run it- I use a Story Circle main and Ghost Quarters, and I main deck Mesas), but I am surprised you are not running Temples. In my grey land slots I use Ghost quarter, and like you I run rest in peace main (2) and SSG, it is a amazing how many wins RIP gets. I have not used mine for a while, I still have two main deck spellskite in mine from the pre-twin ban days.
Its a shame that few versions of this deck exist of late, Landkill has been more popular recently.
Again, why not an O ring/Blinding light split?
Thanks for the posting- always nice to get new versions of the deck.
Ya man, this archetype has appealed to me since I first started playing magic. I have nothing against story circle, but I find leaving mana up to be tough sometimes, so that's why I run unlife instead. I used to run ghost quarters but found them somewhat underwhelming. The only real upside is being able to snipe basics before moon comes down, but most of the time I would rather have the mana to make sure I can drop my lock pieces and I really don't think it affects the game where radiant fountain shores up the aggressive strategies that can beat you before you get your pieces in place.
Temples have been underwhelming for me as well in this particular build because I need all my lands to come in untapped. There is nothing more frustrating than having the acceleration needed to drop a sick lock piece turn 1 or 2 but can't because of the temple. That being said, I do run it in my kiki build (which I will link below), so I do know its uses, but really don't like it in my bridge build.
The singleton hosers have won me multiple game 1's by just dropping them blind and getting lucky, but also tutoring them early in game 1. Stony has been an all star, just like RIP.
The main reason I don't split o ring/banishing light is because of a somewhat irrational fear that if I draw my banishing light to exile something with counters on it (planeswalkers mostly, but also things like scooze), that they can remove it in response to the ETB trigger and it won't do anything. I probably should run the split since maelstrom pulse and echoing truth can be a beating, but since there are only 2 it hasn't been a problem. As an aside, pithing needle has been a close contender for a sb slot, but I feel that o ring does enough against the things I want to needle (lands that would need to be needled are covered by blood moon).
Holy crap I just realized that Gemstone Mine plays so nice with Blood Moon. It's a 5-color first turn mana source that becomes a mountain when blood moon hits.
Gemstone mine is an absolute house. I used to play 4 and loved getting it all the time, but drawing multiples is very harsh on the mana and can screw you over if you want to build up to your win cons or bust.
Also, edit: It's actually a 5-color zero turn mana source XD. nothing feels better than starting the game on the draw and dropping a leyline and gemstone against an opp that hasn't even taken their first turn yet...and they were ON THE PLAY!
I think that the most powerful versions of the deck so far have been the ones that play the cards that are strictly the most powerful. Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge - for example - completely screw certain decks.
This really stood out to me as I've been continuing to lurk this forum after posting a while back. I've been playing the Boros Prison version with md hosers and 2 of idyllic tutor for tutoring them and Assemble the Legion. I've had a lot of success with this build. The main is unquestionable at this point for me, and something like 11 of the sideboard slots I would say are essential now that I have played the deck for a while. For reference, I am including the deck I posted at the beginning of Feb. I highly recommend this build to anyone looking at using a toolbox idyllic tutor build.
Radiant fountain is a great find for lands since the deck can tolerate some number of colorless lands and this is a great one before a blood moon and it comes into play untapped after. Only one gemstone caverns to cut down on the cuteness (you never want two), but the first is essentially free and the upside is just too high. Biggest change is the adoption of fetchlands after forsaking suppression field. Suppression field lacked the total lockdown. I have learned the hard way too many times that mana taxing sans reliable mana denial is not good enough of a lock for the strict prison build. Since you lack any form of real card advantage, every card needs to haul it's weight and suppression field along with defense grid stopped being real cards after a while. The fetches add a welcomed consistency to finding plains before blood moon.
As for the rest of the choices, I've found these to be the harshest and most likely to get you free wins. Idyllic tutor is a beast with these options because it can fetch the hoser you need, but also can fetch removal (o-ring) or a finisher (assemble). I do not believe sweepers are needed in the main. 1st game, decks lack answers and if you can land a ghostly prison or buy some time with o ring/lightning helix (lightning helix is honestly the glue that binds everything together) you will eventually find that ensnaring bridge.
Sideboard is the result of a lot of matches. 1 more of the big hosers RIP, SS, and Nevermore. I have found nevermore to be a beast against both combo decks, but also removal heavy decks like control or jund, by naming the answers they have. since we are talking about them, these are your worst matchups, while the deck deals well with any unfair decks and also creature decks. Ajani and the singleton bust are ways to cement a lead against these decks and gives you the time to rebuild/find duplicates/more lock pieces. Ricochet trap is a recent addition in response to the increase in blue, but is also decent against removal. Outpost siege is great against these decks. The wrath are needed to save you against creature decks that aim to flood the board and find their sideboard answers. Shattering spree respects the ever threatening affinity and notably works through chalice if replicated and synergizes nicely with blood moon. Torpor orb because I had them in the eldrazi metagame and liked what they did for certain matchups I didn't explicitly put them in for (mostly green decks that use reclamation sage and primeval titan). Finally, but importantly, spellskite is great to protect your gameplan, almost always comes in post board and a headache for decks skimping on real answers, and is itself a hoser against certain fast matchups (infect, bogles, suicide zoo, burn-ish).
Like I said, been playing the deck now since late january and i've found the deck to prove itself constantly.
Hey should reprint ghost quarter if hat is the effect you are looking for. No-drawback land removal is not good for the game at low CC. If you really only cared about troublesome lands and didn't actually want to incorporate LD as a part of your strategy, then crumble should be adequate. Also, any lower cmc option should be like ghost quarter in that it lets you stay even on mana, but gets rid of the land that is a problem.
Alternatively, LD seems like a worse option if you just want to manage non basic lands that do things; a pithing needle effect would be much better suited than ld as it can deal with any future copies as well. Long story short, there are really no good reasons for no-drawback LD, but many good reasons for some effect that can punish relying heavily on non basics. Honestly, one of those effects was sorely needed in this recent standard (from an outsiders perspective cause I don't play standard, just watch) to avoid the 4 color nonsense decks. This could have been a calculated move by wizards, tho, to have a standard that just goes wild. After all, even though there are multiple 4 color decks, they are all pretty different in their game plan....
Edit: This thing is absolutely going to be played in modern in certain decks. Certainly not a staple, but neither is maelstrom pulse (as far as staples go), but it is a key factor in BGx ability to answer everything. Guaranteed that Esper and mardu will be playing 1/1 split main/board. Can't see it being 2/0 or 2/1 unless the meta highly calls for it, but these two decks in particular need a flexible main board answer or they get rolled by certain strategies (particularly planeswalkers for Esper). There is no way this will not become a part of a few decks. I called the same for painful truths and while this will make less of a splash, it will undoubtedly become part of the format. remember, the reason ulcerated is not played is not because of the three life (Its absolutely worth the three life), but because dismember is just superior (and effectively colorless). I literally cannot imagine any deck that would play ulcerate, that wouldn't just replace it with dismember
ok this makes so much more sense now. It's just the card doesn't have a discussion thread yet so I stumbled upon this and thought it just wasn't linked yet. This seems pretty bad in cube lol...it's almost like this is just a colorless flying men
Not a mb card. Will definitely see wide eternal play in both combo decks and aggro creature decks *sideboards*. Just the fact that xantid swarm is in modern now is kind of a big deal.
If you are comparing this to flying men you're doing it wrong...
Edit: I always forget to make clear that I'm not talking about standard. It's very possible this thing will not be played at all in standard. I'm an eternal player.
I took some inspiration from the planeswalkers in that build. I have found chandra, flamecaller to be really good, which is way better than chandra, pyromaster
to be clear, her +1 takes over games if you don't have your bridge out.
If you are under bridge, then her +0 can cycle lands and redundant cards and provides real card advantage against Uxx and BGx decks.
Her -X is also bonkers because it adds 2 more sweepers, albeit really expensive, to the deck after the 2 wrath.
It's also possible you want a 1/1 split with elspeth, sun's champion
been dormant from this deck with the resurgence of blue counterspell decks when ancestral vision and sword were unbanned. My bridge version only had bad matchups against counterspells and rock decks. Since I run the full lockdown version, I was always frustrated that my lock pieces would barely make it, but eventually get killed. Spellskite was good, but not enough because fundamentally, lockdown doesn't work against jund. They'll eventually draw out of the blood moon and find an answer or whatever. Likewise, counterspells completely wreck you (holy remand batman) because they just get to keep playing their game while denying your lock. Terrible. I used to run things like defense grid/ricochet trap and outpost siege, but they ultimately are on the same axis as lock pieces. When the unban happened and mtgo became overrun with blue decks, I shelved the deck for a bit and played some other decks. I never lost my love for this archetype, and I always would play it hoping the heavy counterspell decks would subside. Lo, that day has come.
Blue is currently a lot more skewed to the "play proactive spells for reveler" type deals right now and heavy counterspell decks are at an all time low. This led me to some rethinking of the archetype and I came upon a pretty deep realization: you need threats against these decks. While lock piece are questions that require answers, they are not threatening per se. When I dropped suppression field earlier in my testing for the reason that it was ultimately a lock piece for planeswalkers (read liliana) because of similar reasons I explained above, I included Ajani in my sideboard, leery of including it main deck since I liked the idyllic tutor package I was running with Assemble the legion wincon. (As an aside, the other reason I dropped suppression field was because against anything other than midrange decks where it gave you time against fetchlands and planeswalkers, the other lock pieces I ran were far superior and left field feeling underwhelming). Ajani was always the most difficult thing for jund to deal with coupled with my other lock pieces. I was a true threat, albeit a weak one. I still like his ability to destroy lands, but it led me to search for planeswalker finishers to sub in for outpost siege. Chandra, Flamecaller is my current choice. In theory, Elspeth, sun's champion is more powerful, but double white under blood moon is not something I want to be searching for. I've had a crush on Chandra since she was printed and I think she is just so powerful. Can stabilize most boards that are under a bridge and can race effectively otherwise. Her 0 can eventually draw you into 3 cards to start attacking even under a bridge if you're trying to close out the game on an empty board against control. The key is that she is effective in both matchups like ajani. Anyway, list below
This deck is super unfair btw. Like I feel legitimately bad playing against some matchups. Against suicide zoo (the deck full of one drops, notorious for not playing basics, whose only hope to beat you with no creatures is direct damage) just now, third game on the play, I leyline, first turn plains ssg into chalice, second turn radiant fountain blood moon to their lone tapped godless shrine. I literally felt like a jerk.
4 radiant fountain
3 clifftop retreat
4 arid mesa
4 sacred foundry
5 plains
1 mountain
4 simian spirit guide
4 lightning helix
4 leyline of sanctity
4 chalice of the void
4 blood moon
4 ensnaring bridge
4 ghostly prison
2 idyllic tutor
1 rest in peace
1 stony silence
1 nevermore
1 phyrexian unlife
2 oblivion ring
2 assemble the legion
1 stony silence
1 nevermore
1 shattering spree
1 boom
2 wrath of god
2 spellskite
2 torpor orb
2 ajani vengeant
2 chandra, flamecaller
Not much of an update since last time. card choices continue to be relevant and have proven their worth. Every component is necessary, and the idyllic tutor package is worth it every time. Gets the bullets you need or AtL when you need it. Torpor orb was increased to 2 slots when it proved itself against blue decks with snapcaster and vendilion, not to mention the main reason it is there: reclamation sage. That card is just silly against us. Cherry on top that it also shuts down various combos. singleton boom is great against grindy matchups for bust, but also for the annoying tron or arbor elf type ramp decks. affinity is not a bad matchup per se, you can just never truly lock them down because it's so easy for them to get under you and being able to pick off many noncreature artifacts is really what the deck needs to seal the deal once your lock is setup. If there is an uptick in affinity, you can just add another one over a nevermore (spell based combo decks are on the decline and it's not really needed but it's nice to bring something in for the helixes or what not). Only thing I kinda wish I had sometimes is a pithing needle/phyrexian revoker effect, but both have their pretty severe downsides which is why I still don't include them: being turned off by chalice (notice I don't run a single 1 drop) and turning on opponent's removal (only creature in the 75 is spellskite cause you know ssg don't count) respectively.
Anyway, I highly recommend running the deck right now. It's always been super powerful and only has 2 real bad matchups (and really it's remand/leak and decay), and the metagame is super hospitable to it right now. Matchup analysis below
Jund - you can't lock jund out because of all the axes it plays on. Nothing KO's it. that being said, RIP isn't bad, leyline is great, blood moon is traditionally great, nevermore is great against decay, wrath is good, ajani is good, bust is good, spellskite is good against decay, and of course recent addition chandra. It's not a terrible matchup, it's just hard and not ez mode like almost every matchup. Almost your entire sideboard is good against it.
Bant Eldrazi - Ensnaring bridge, wrath, torpor orb, blood moon, even chalice isn't terrible like against other eldrazi matchups.
Affinity - how can a deck with md stony and ways to tutor for it ever have a terrible matchup against affinity? spellskite is good, albeit the nonbo, chalice, wrath, blood moon (for nexus). Kinda slim pickins on super hateful cards, but shattering spree fills holes and can be upped in count
Infect - chalice, prison, moon, helix, bridge (eventually), spellskite, wrath are all good. pretty easy matchup
Merfolk - can be a tough matchup if they pack a lot of counters, but it's still a creature deck that has to battle through prison, bridge, helix, unlife, stony and chalice on 2.
dredge - stony silence is to affinity as rest in peace is to dredge. Again, still a creature deck that has to battle through prison, bridge, helix, unlife, moon (ish).
burn - leyline, chalice, helix, unlife is pretty much KO. blood moon is not even that bad
Tron - Not a great matchup, but moon, stony, o ring, nevermore, bust, and spellskite even pull some decent weight against them.
suicide zoo - See above. it's unfair how good this deck is against them.
Jeskai - the other baddie. Same deal as Jund. shave on a lot of things, but diversify. Planeswalkers for finishers.
RG Breach - bridge, moon, leyline, lock their main wincons. torpor orb from the side is great and bust can surprise them.
Ad nauseam - leyline, nevermore, chalice, stony, moon (ish), helix (for maniac) are all great. this is one of the matchups where nevermore shines. if it weren't for it's bonus use against decay, nevermore would be a looser choice. it's great against combo tho in a deck that is very dedicated to creature hate
Chord decks - could use a cage, but the one drop status is jarring. torpor orb, rip, prison, cage, moon, etc.
Bogles - bridge, spellskite, chalice, are great
Storm - tough and tense matchup since a timely echoing truth can beat us, but they have to get it before we lock them out completely with spellskite. leyline and prison lock out grapeshot and empty the warrens effectively so it's a matter of them finding anti hate
I'm losing steam but I hope you can see that the deck has great matchups
Edit: Chandra is really good fyi. The 0 is deceptively strong. Cashing in lands for gas is so good.
This version feels right. Nahiri + kiki jiki is the real deal. if it's not a chord deck like hoogland's (whose stream really propelled me to get the nahiris), I think prison provides a lot of benefits to the combo. Chalice can turn off virtually all relevant removal starting with bolt and path, ending with terminate and doom blade etc. Leyline protects your combo from discard and, relevantly, nahiri from burn. Spellskite main protects the combo. Blood moon at least buys time. SSG a turn 3 nahiri. ETC.
2 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
2 spellskite
4 wall of omens
4 simian spirit guide
4 nahiri, the harbinger
4 chalice of the void
4 leyline of sanctity
4 blood moon
2 pyroclasm
2 oblivion ring
2 clifftop retreat
1 gemstone mine
1 mountain
5 plains
4 radiant fountain
3 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
2 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 nevermore
1 phyrexian unlife
2 anger of the gods
1 outpost siege
2 disenchant
2 ricochet trap
Yes that's an emrakul in the side, mmmm. It's a lot like the other list posted above but all in nahiri + kiki combo. to make room for the combo, the main deck sacrifices lightning helix and idyllic tutor, relegates the toolbox permanents to the sideboard, and replaces the bridge/prison package with wall of omens, spellskites and pyroclasms. The idea is that you need helix to survive until you get your locks down so you can draw into assemble, but with nahiri, you can just win faster. The wall of omens are great in this list since they hold off attacks mostly anything helix hits, effectively gaining you life, while digging you deeper to find the combo and protecting nahiri from attacks as well. The disenchants in the board are placeholders really, but have done their job. Generally speaking, this deck doesn't need all the specific hate cards in the lockdown list because it can end games with the combo, so I only include the most hateful ones in the board. Oh also, added 2 more lands to make sure I can pull off the combo, and temple is great to dig for it.
My only question is whether the anger and the o-rings should be flip flopped. While my main weakness is creature swarms without ghostly prison, double red can be painful. I also feel somewhat naked to planeswalkers if I don't have them main. The angers main might just be necessary, though I may end up just running a split.
Ya man, this archetype has appealed to me since I first started playing magic. I have nothing against story circle, but I find leaving mana up to be tough sometimes, so that's why I run unlife instead. I used to run ghost quarters but found them somewhat underwhelming. The only real upside is being able to snipe basics before moon comes down, but most of the time I would rather have the mana to make sure I can drop my lock pieces and I really don't think it affects the game where radiant fountain shores up the aggressive strategies that can beat you before you get your pieces in place.
Temples have been underwhelming for me as well in this particular build because I need all my lands to come in untapped. There is nothing more frustrating than having the acceleration needed to drop a sick lock piece turn 1 or 2 but can't because of the temple. That being said, I do run it in my kiki build (which I will link below), so I do know its uses, but really don't like it in my bridge build.
The singleton hosers have won me multiple game 1's by just dropping them blind and getting lucky, but also tutoring them early in game 1. Stony has been an all star, just like RIP.
The main reason I don't split o ring/banishing light is because of a somewhat irrational fear that if I draw my banishing light to exile something with counters on it (planeswalkers mostly, but also things like scooze), that they can remove it in response to the ETB trigger and it won't do anything. I probably should run the split since maelstrom pulse and echoing truth can be a beating, but since there are only 2 it hasn't been a problem. As an aside, pithing needle has been a close contender for a sb slot, but I feel that o ring does enough against the things I want to needle (lands that would need to be needled are covered by blood moon).
Gemstone mine is an absolute house. I used to play 4 and loved getting it all the time, but drawing multiples is very harsh on the mana and can screw you over if you want to build up to your win cons or bust.
Also, edit: It's actually a 5-color zero turn mana source XD. nothing feels better than starting the game on the draw and dropping a leyline and gemstone against an opp that hasn't even taken their first turn yet...and they were ON THE PLAY!
This really stood out to me as I've been continuing to lurk this forum after posting a while back. I've been playing the Boros Prison version with md hosers and 2 of idyllic tutor for tutoring them and Assemble the Legion. I've had a lot of success with this build. The main is unquestionable at this point for me, and something like 11 of the sideboard slots I would say are essential now that I have played the deck for a while. For reference, I am including the deck I posted at the beginning of Feb. I highly recommend this build to anyone looking at using a toolbox idyllic tutor build.
4 simian spirit guide
4 chalice of the void
4 blood moon
1 rest in peace
1 stony silence
1 phyrexian unlife
1 nevermore
4 lightning helix
4 ghostly prison
4 ensnaring bridge
2 oblivion ring
2 idyllic tutor
2 Assemble the Legion
4 radiant fountain
4 arid mesa
3 clifftop retreat
4 sacred foundry
5 plains
1 mountain
2 ricochet trap
1 rest in peace
1 stony silence
1 nevermore
1 torpor orb
1 boom
1 outpost siege
1 shattering spree
2 wrath of god
2 spellskite
2 ajani vengeant
4 leyline of sanctity
4 chalice of the void
2 rest in peace
2 suppression field
2 stony silence
4 lightning helix
4 blood moon
4 ghostly prison
3 ensnaring bridge
2 phyrexian unlife
2 oblivion ring
1 idyllic tutor
2 Assemble the Legion
4 clifftop retreat
4 sacred foundry
7 plains
1 mountain
2 defense grid
2 nevermore
2 pyroclasm
2 sudden shock
1 roast
2 wrath of god
2 starfield of nyx
2 wear
Radiant fountain is a great find for lands since the deck can tolerate some number of colorless lands and this is a great one before a blood moon and it comes into play untapped after. Only one gemstone caverns to cut down on the cuteness (you never want two), but the first is essentially free and the upside is just too high. Biggest change is the adoption of fetchlands after forsaking suppression field. Suppression field lacked the total lockdown. I have learned the hard way too many times that mana taxing sans reliable mana denial is not good enough of a lock for the strict prison build. Since you lack any form of real card advantage, every card needs to haul it's weight and suppression field along with defense grid stopped being real cards after a while. The fetches add a welcomed consistency to finding plains before blood moon.
As for the rest of the choices, I've found these to be the harshest and most likely to get you free wins. Idyllic tutor is a beast with these options because it can fetch the hoser you need, but also can fetch removal (o-ring) or a finisher (assemble). I do not believe sweepers are needed in the main. 1st game, decks lack answers and if you can land a ghostly prison or buy some time with o ring/lightning helix (lightning helix is honestly the glue that binds everything together) you will eventually find that ensnaring bridge.
Sideboard is the result of a lot of matches. 1 more of the big hosers RIP, SS, and Nevermore. I have found nevermore to be a beast against both combo decks, but also removal heavy decks like control or jund, by naming the answers they have. since we are talking about them, these are your worst matchups, while the deck deals well with any unfair decks and also creature decks. Ajani and the singleton bust are ways to cement a lead against these decks and gives you the time to rebuild/find duplicates/more lock pieces. Ricochet trap is a recent addition in response to the increase in blue, but is also decent against removal. Outpost siege is great against these decks. The wrath are needed to save you against creature decks that aim to flood the board and find their sideboard answers. Shattering spree respects the ever threatening affinity and notably works through chalice if replicated and synergizes nicely with blood moon. Torpor orb because I had them in the eldrazi metagame and liked what they did for certain matchups I didn't explicitly put them in for (mostly green decks that use reclamation sage and primeval titan). Finally, but importantly, spellskite is great to protect your gameplan, almost always comes in post board and a headache for decks skimping on real answers, and is itself a hoser against certain fast matchups (infect, bogles, suicide zoo, burn-ish).
Like I said, been playing the deck now since late january and i've found the deck to prove itself constantly.
Alternatively, LD seems like a worse option if you just want to manage non basic lands that do things; a pithing needle effect would be much better suited than ld as it can deal with any future copies as well. Long story short, there are really no good reasons for no-drawback LD, but many good reasons for some effect that can punish relying heavily on non basics. Honestly, one of those effects was sorely needed in this recent standard (from an outsiders perspective cause I don't play standard, just watch) to avoid the 4 color nonsense decks. This could have been a calculated move by wizards, tho, to have a standard that just goes wild. After all, even though there are multiple 4 color decks, they are all pretty different in their game plan....
Edit: This thing is absolutely going to be played in modern in certain decks. Certainly not a staple, but neither is maelstrom pulse (as far as staples go), but it is a key factor in BGx ability to answer everything. Guaranteed that Esper and mardu will be playing 1/1 split main/board. Can't see it being 2/0 or 2/1 unless the meta highly calls for it, but these two decks in particular need a flexible main board answer or they get rolled by certain strategies (particularly planeswalkers for Esper). There is no way this will not become a part of a few decks. I called the same for painful truths and while this will make less of a splash, it will undoubtedly become part of the format. remember, the reason ulcerated is not played is not because of the three life (Its absolutely worth the three life), but because dismember is just superior (and effectively colorless). I literally cannot imagine any deck that would play ulcerate, that wouldn't just replace it with dismember