First, I'm sorry if this deck has been covered before. I couldn't find it under the Established section, but I did find Mono blue (which I think is inferior), so I figured I'd post it here in case anyone had any clue about its history.
So many great things to say about this deck. First, it's VERY budget-friendly. (~$42 on mtggoldfish). Second, it's apparently competitive as it 4-0'd a daily just the other day (1/8/14). Third, it's super fun!
The only modern tron I've played is the other budget one- mono blue tron (which is still twice as expensive), and I found this one to be WAY more consistent. Of course I've had a turn 3 kill, as is expected with any halfway decent combo deck, but the consistency is what really made me like this one over mono blue.
Mono blue is too reliant on the actual tron pieces coming together. One land destroyed equals you wasting turns praying for another tron piece or an expedition map. This deck is content with either tron or krark, and if you lose one, there are a ton of cantrips and graveyard recurrence to help you get it back. Mono blue tron had mindslaver lock which required 10 mana and an Academy ruins every turn--in the best case of all scenarios, that's turn five and you're probably never drawing another card from your own deck ever again. YAWN.
Stony silence is the biggest problem of course, but the deck carries five ways to deal with it. Graveyard hate is the second biggest problem, but that's only an inconvenience, not a total shutdown of the deck.
That's a good suggestion, since it's 4 rounds for the price of 3, and everyone is definitely bringing their best game to the table. So that saves me a couple of tickets, I suppose, with the slight chance of getting some of my money back.
I just constructed a competitive Orzhov Humans deck, but I'm not sure where to seriously practice. If you've ever played in the Tournament Practice room, you'll know that the decks in there are well below average, piloted by people who just want a higher difficulty rating. I always win without breaking a sweat and I never learn anything about my deck and how it plays against serious match ups.
Is the only place to practice 2-mans? I just built this deck and I'd hate to burn so many tickets just getting a feel for my new deck in a competitive setting.
What are your methods? Do you have practice buddies? Is there a forum or a sub-reddit where you set up sessions?
I did a Premier Event with this deck (Clownstabber's latest build) and got 32nd Place (enough for the event to be free!:)). There were a couple pilot errors that might have won me some matches, but also some weaknesses I felt I couldn't deal with. Here's my experience. Feel free to correct my errors in thinking or to give me ideas on how to play better next time.
1. MBD (which I played against 3 times):
Watch out for Shrivel after Game 1! It's worth keeping up the mana for Fortifyuntil you've got enough 2 toughness creatures, and I would argue it necessitates always having at least 2 Spears in the deck at all times.
Gary was obviously the worst card EVER to play against. I ONLY lost to him. Imposing Sovereign is great against Pack Rat, Desecration Demon is easy when you have infinite tokens to sac, but I couldn't find any way to answer a Gary on the field. Especially when followed by two more Garys -_-. Maybe I should side in Keening Apparition, Last Breath, a fourth Banisher Priest, and Celestial Flare and just try to remove as much devotion as possible before the inevitable comes?
2. RW Devotion:
The toughest match I had by far. Went 1-2, but I still felt like I had no chance. His creatures came out faster and were twice as strong. This made me want 4x Fiendslayer Paladin in the sideboard; though not even Fiendslayer has an answer to an overloaded Mizzium Mortars, Chained to the Rocks, or a Boros Reckoner, Stormbreath Dragon, or Purphoros.
Pacifism and Banisher Priest are excellent answers to Reckoner and Purphoros, but the only way I see beating Stormbreath is with a lucky Celestial Flare.
Also, protect your Pantheon at all costs. He has protection from most of RW's creatures (BTE, FBW, BR).
3. MUD:
I felt like I won this one through sheer luck. He's as much an aggro deck as I am. Again, Pantheon is invaluable as he's protected from Judge's Familiar, FBW, and Nightveil Specter. MUD's best answer to my full board of creatures was A. Overloaded Cyclonic Rift, which comes late, but is devastating when it comes, and B., having more creatures, ala Master of Waves. In the match I lost, I Banisher Priest'd his Master, and he then dropped a Cloudfin Raptor and a Bident of Thassa, forced my Banisher to attack, and proceeded to spawn a mess of elementals which evolved Cloudfin to obscene levels. It actually crashed the beta client.
4. The only other match up I had was against an American control deck. It ran just Mutavaults, Jace's, Elspeth's, and a ton of removal. It felt like an easy match once I played around Verdict. Either save mana for Rootborn or save creatures in your hand when you feel like it's coming. I remember holding a Precinct Captain in my hand, debating whether or not to drop it on turn 3, and deciding against it. His turn 4? Verdict. My turn 4, a Captain breathing down his neck.
Best Sideboard for me was Glare of Heresy, Keening Apparition, and Pithing Needle (I only ran 1 in the SB, but I feel like 2 is more appropriate.
Edit: Forgot about my Orzhov midrange match.
This was my second hardest match up. Once obzedat or blood baron were out, it was game over. All I can think is to include renounce the guilds in the board, but this is one of the only match ups that would need it. Otherwise, seems like one where you keep all your one drops in and blitz hard. Might need 4x fortify for situations like this.
I look forward to playing more!
There's good synergy with Crack the Earth and Flagstones and Young Pyromancer, so much so that you can conceivably destroy a land on turns 1, 2, and 3, while having 2-3 lands up for yourself.
So weird how everyone's reaction to the Jace art is distaste. My first impression was that it was awesome. I *really* like the way Jace looks. Good photorealism. Less anime-esque like the memory adept. Love this art style. And honestly, I don't see how people could like the original AoT art over this.
Has anyone considered Pack Rat?
-You're filling your graveyard with creatures for Nemesis/Jarad/Howler/Whip.
-He's a cheap target for Bestow.
-He's Pack Rat. IE, an angry, persistent threat that demands an answer on turn 2.
In Conley's most recent brew, he ups the creature count with Lotleth, a creature he likes for its resilience, its discarding of creatures, and its job as an early Nighthowler target. Wouldn't Pack Rat serve a similar purpose while still sort of maintaining the self-mill strategy? The obvious difference is Pack Rat demands 3 mana on turn 3, 3 mana on turn 4, etc., but isn't it accomplishing the same thing as say, Commune/Grisly/Drown in that its filling the Graveyard for Nemesis but with the additional benefit of being a threat?
Another, unrelated thought:
One thing I don't really like about the deck is the unreliability of Drown in Filth as a removal spell. With a mere 19 lands and DRS eating whichever ones you happen to get into the GY, most of the time Drown in Filth is useless in the early game. Is the mill of it THAT important that we'd choose it over say a third Shadowborn and/or some Putrefies?
Could you give me some ideas for replacement? The main reason I love Lazav is he's the hexproof version of Ashiok and Nightveil, but I understand at four mana he might be slow and still susceptible to sacrifice mechanics and verdict. The deck is already very creature-light and planeswalker-light. What do you think?
I'd love your opinions on this deck (including the sideboard). I've been hard-pressed to find any successful UB deck lists online, so I'm assuming it has its limits in terms of competitive play. However, I have a lot of fun and a high win-ratio on mtgo Tournament Practice, so I want to tune this deck up as best as I can!
How the deck wins:
At its best, this deck puts a stranglehold on my opponent and turns his deck against itself. There's nothing more satisfying than beating down my opponent with his own fatties and watching him use his removal against them. Against midrange, Lazav is an absolute house. He's the inspiration behind the whole deck, in fact, and I've sort of molded it around that type of play. Against control, I usually turn up the mill engine and use Dimir Charm to screw up his draws. This match up is often iffy to me, but I've won several times by simply siding in my mill and melting his deck as fast as possible. Against aggro, I'm siding in Rachets and Essences and hoping I survive. My removal feels a bit slow. Omenspeaker helps a bit. Truthfully, there don't seem to be many aggro decks in my meta (mtgo), so I'm not particularly well-versed in my strategy against them.
On the deck's "budgetness," vis a vis your suggestions:
The deck isn't strictly budget if you consider the Nightveils and Ashiok, but I'm definitely not spending any money on Jace's, and unless I can see a great reason to play Hero's Downfall, I'm not buying those either. So if anyone has a suggestion as to what cards to add, I'm opposed to high-priced cards but will consider mid-priced cards if they pose a clear benefit to my deck.
Also, improving my manabase with Watery Grave is certainly doable, but I want to hold off on that if I can invest my small budget in better meat cards. Mana problems are fairly rare for me anyway.
Right away, your suggestion about my land to spell ratio rang true to me. I've always found myself mana hungry in my deck. As far as my spell choices, they sort of work off of a very sloppy early-mid game where I'm hanging on by a thread but have incredible life gain (hence the 4 tendrils and sylvok), while ruining my opponent's chance of developing a good midgame through sheer discard. Cry of contrition + Carrion or Fume = a pretty devastating way to empty an opponent's hand of threats. This would culminate in a fun late game with multiple sylvoks on recurring creatures while slinging out huge Corrupts.
That said, I've tried out your suggestions and I notice many improvements. I've only played one match (UR Nivix/Kiln), but it was clear that if I simply had more removal, then the early-mid game doesn't have to be so sloppy. I can reasonably take out any threat (and in UR there so few in the first place), and all the while, I have bodies on the field pressuring or chump blocking. I felt much safer with your build. I'll edit this post with my thoughts on other match-ups.
Do you have any sideboard suggestions? Since I don't have a set of Victim of the Night, I'm running Doom Blades. This screws me in the mirror match-up but I can always side in Geth's or something else. It really only penalizes me against Cuomajj as far as I can tell, as everything else black has, I have an answer to.
Edit: Just had a match-up with Black. I was destroyed. By Cuomajj. Early game, we trade our early units. Then Cuom hits. Keeps the board clear til he can get out a Grey Merchant, then another one. I have a useless Undying Evil in my hand. My previous deck fared much better in this matchup, probably because it wasn't the budget version of the deck but something different altogether. I could get creative in the sideboard, I suppose.
I want a tournament-worthy pauper deck, so I've been experimenting with all sorts of cheap pauper decks in Tournament Practice (MTGO), from infect to Hexproof to cheap (and bad) delver. This is the only deck that has consistently won against all archetypes in during practice. Burn is troublesome for it, as well as certain infinite combos if I let them get off the ground. Anyway, here's the list, I'd love some suggests to make it better.
As with all MBC, it works by stalling through removal, discard, and lifegain, with win conditions being weak swingers and Corrupt. Please let me know what you think !
Also, Birds of Paradise, Sylvan Caryatid both seem like better options than Sylvan Ranger.
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6592298
3 Plains
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Etherium Sculptor
1 Banefire
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
1 Expedition Map
2 Fabricate
1 Faith's Reward
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Open the Vaults
4 Prophetic Prism
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Defense Grid
1 Disenchant
1 Grapeshot
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Pithing Needle
First, I'm sorry if this deck has been covered before. I couldn't find it under the Established section, but I did find Mono blue (which I think is inferior), so I figured I'd post it here in case anyone had any clue about its history.
So many great things to say about this deck. First, it's VERY budget-friendly. (~$42 on mtggoldfish). Second, it's apparently competitive as it 4-0'd a daily just the other day (1/8/14). Third, it's super fun!
The only modern tron I've played is the other budget one- mono blue tron (which is still twice as expensive), and I found this one to be WAY more consistent. Of course I've had a turn 3 kill, as is expected with any halfway decent combo deck, but the consistency is what really made me like this one over mono blue.
Mono blue is too reliant on the actual tron pieces coming together. One land destroyed equals you wasting turns praying for another tron piece or an expedition map. This deck is content with either tron or krark, and if you lose one, there are a ton of cantrips and graveyard recurrence to help you get it back. Mono blue tron had mindslaver lock which required 10 mana and an Academy ruins every turn--in the best case of all scenarios, that's turn five and you're probably never drawing another card from your own deck ever again. YAWN.
Stony silence is the biggest problem of course, but the deck carries five ways to deal with it. Graveyard hate is the second biggest problem, but that's only an inconvenience, not a total shutdown of the deck.
Any thoughts or comments?
Is the only place to practice 2-mans? I just built this deck and I'd hate to burn so many tickets just getting a feel for my new deck in a competitive setting.
What are your methods? Do you have practice buddies? Is there a forum or a sub-reddit where you set up sessions?
Thanks !
1. MBD (which I played against 3 times):
Watch out for Shrivel after Game 1! It's worth keeping up the mana for Fortifyuntil you've got enough 2 toughness creatures, and I would argue it necessitates always having at least 2 Spears in the deck at all times.
Gary was obviously the worst card EVER to play against. I ONLY lost to him. Imposing Sovereign is great against Pack Rat, Desecration Demon is easy when you have infinite tokens to sac, but I couldn't find any way to answer a Gary on the field. Especially when followed by two more Garys -_-. Maybe I should side in Keening Apparition, Last Breath, a fourth Banisher Priest, and Celestial Flare and just try to remove as much devotion as possible before the inevitable comes?
2. RW Devotion:
The toughest match I had by far. Went 1-2, but I still felt like I had no chance. His creatures came out faster and were twice as strong. This made me want 4x Fiendslayer Paladin in the sideboard; though not even Fiendslayer has an answer to an overloaded Mizzium Mortars, Chained to the Rocks, or a Boros Reckoner, Stormbreath Dragon, or Purphoros.
Pacifism and Banisher Priest are excellent answers to Reckoner and Purphoros, but the only way I see beating Stormbreath is with a lucky Celestial Flare.
Also, protect your Pantheon at all costs. He has protection from most of RW's creatures (BTE, FBW, BR).
3. MUD:
I felt like I won this one through sheer luck. He's as much an aggro deck as I am. Again, Pantheon is invaluable as he's protected from Judge's Familiar, FBW, and Nightveil Specter. MUD's best answer to my full board of creatures was A. Overloaded Cyclonic Rift, which comes late, but is devastating when it comes, and B., having more creatures, ala Master of Waves. In the match I lost, I Banisher Priest'd his Master, and he then dropped a Cloudfin Raptor and a Bident of Thassa, forced my Banisher to attack, and proceeded to spawn a mess of elementals which evolved Cloudfin to obscene levels. It actually crashed the beta client.
4. The only other match up I had was against an American control deck. It ran just Mutavaults, Jace's, Elspeth's, and a ton of removal. It felt like an easy match once I played around Verdict. Either save mana for Rootborn or save creatures in your hand when you feel like it's coming. I remember holding a Precinct Captain in my hand, debating whether or not to drop it on turn 3, and deciding against it. His turn 4? Verdict. My turn 4, a Captain breathing down his neck.
Best Sideboard for me was Glare of Heresy, Keening Apparition, and Pithing Needle (I only ran 1 in the SB, but I feel like 2 is more appropriate.
Edit: Forgot about my Orzhov midrange match.
This was my second hardest match up. Once obzedat or blood baron were out, it was game over. All I can think is to include renounce the guilds in the board, but this is one of the only match ups that would need it. Otherwise, seems like one where you keep all your one drops in and blitz hard. Might need 4x fortify for situations like this.
I look forward to playing more!
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Flagstones of Trokair
6 Mountain
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Crack the Earth
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boom//Bust
4 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
1 Arc Blade
3 Magnivore
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
2 Sowing Salt
2 Stony Silence
2 Chain Reaction
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
There's good synergy with Crack the Earth and Flagstones and Young Pyromancer, so much so that you can conceivably destroy a land on turns 1, 2, and 3, while having 2-3 lands up for yourself.
Sorry to get all fanboy
-You're filling your graveyard with creatures for Nemesis/Jarad/Howler/Whip.
-He's a cheap target for Bestow.
-He's Pack Rat. IE, an angry, persistent threat that demands an answer on turn 2.
In Conley's most recent brew, he ups the creature count with Lotleth, a creature he likes for its resilience, its discarding of creatures, and its job as an early Nighthowler target. Wouldn't Pack Rat serve a similar purpose while still sort of maintaining the self-mill strategy? The obvious difference is Pack Rat demands 3 mana on turn 3, 3 mana on turn 4, etc., but isn't it accomplishing the same thing as say, Commune/Grisly/Drown in that its filling the Graveyard for Nemesis but with the additional benefit of being a threat?
Another, unrelated thought:
One thing I don't really like about the deck is the unreliability of Drown in Filth as a removal spell. With a mere 19 lands and DRS eating whichever ones you happen to get into the GY, most of the time Drown in Filth is useless in the early game. Is the mill of it THAT important that we'd choose it over say a third Shadowborn and/or some Putrefies?
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Temple of Deceit
8 Island
7 Swamp
Creatures (12)
2 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
2 Nighthowler
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Omenspeaker
2 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Other Spells (23)
3 Dimir Charm
2 Dissolve
2 Doom Blade
2 Essence Scatter
4 Far/Away
2 Grisly Spectacle
2 Pilfered Plans
4 Psychic Strike
2 Syncopate
2 Mind Grind
4 Breaking/Entering
4 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
3 Ratchet Bomb
First, I'd like to give a shoutout to shinbatsu, whose deck "Making Mill Viable in Constructed Since 2013" inspired this endeavor. You can find his super-budget deck in the stickied budget thread.
I'd love your opinions on this deck (including the sideboard). I've been hard-pressed to find any successful UB deck lists online, so I'm assuming it has its limits in terms of competitive play. However, I have a lot of fun and a high win-ratio on mtgo Tournament Practice, so I want to tune this deck up as best as I can!
How the deck wins:
At its best, this deck puts a stranglehold on my opponent and turns his deck against itself. There's nothing more satisfying than beating down my opponent with his own fatties and watching him use his removal against them.
Against midrange, Lazav is an absolute house. He's the inspiration behind the whole deck, in fact, and I've sort of molded it around that type of play.
Against control, I usually turn up the mill engine and use Dimir Charm to screw up his draws. This match up is often iffy to me, but I've won several times by simply siding in my mill and melting his deck as fast as possible.
Against aggro, I'm siding in Rachets and Essences and hoping I survive. My removal feels a bit slow. Omenspeaker helps a bit. Truthfully, there don't seem to be many aggro decks in my meta (mtgo), so I'm not particularly well-versed in my strategy against them.
On the deck's "budgetness," vis a vis your suggestions:
The deck isn't strictly budget if you consider the Nightveils and Ashiok, but I'm definitely not spending any money on Jace's, and unless I can see a great reason to play Hero's Downfall, I'm not buying those either. So if anyone has a suggestion as to what cards to add, I'm opposed to high-priced cards but will consider mid-priced cards if they pose a clear benefit to my deck.
Also, improving my manabase with Watery Grave is certainly doable, but I want to hold off on that if I can invest my small budget in better meat cards. Mana problems are fairly rare for me anyway.
Thanks again for your suggestions!
That said, I've tried out your suggestions and I notice many improvements. I've only played one match (UR Nivix/Kiln), but it was clear that if I simply had more removal, then the early-mid game doesn't have to be so sloppy. I can reasonably take out any threat (and in UR there so few in the first place), and all the while, I have bodies on the field pressuring or chump blocking. I felt much safer with your build. I'll edit this post with my thoughts on other match-ups.
Do you have any sideboard suggestions? Since I don't have a set of Victim of the Night, I'm running Doom Blades. This screws me in the mirror match-up but I can always side in Geth's or something else. It really only penalizes me against Cuomajj as far as I can tell, as everything else black has, I have an answer to.
Edit: Just had a match-up with Black. I was destroyed. By Cuomajj. Early game, we trade our early units. Then Cuom hits. Keeps the board clear til he can get out a Grey Merchant, then another one. I have a useless Undying Evil in my hand. My previous deck fared much better in this matchup, probably because it wasn't the budget version of the deck but something different altogether. I could get creative in the sideboard, I suppose.
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Fume Spitter
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Liliana's Specter
Instants/Sorceries
4x Cry of Contrition
4x Undying Evil
4x Sign in Blood
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Corrupt
2x Grim Harvest
4x Sylvok Lifestaff
Lands
19x Swamp
3x Dead Weight
3x Echoing Decay
3x Geth's Verdict
4x Order of the Ebon Hand
2x Duress
As with all MBC, it works by stalling through removal, discard, and lifegain, with win conditions being weak swingers and Corrupt. Please let me know what you think !