I have cards all over the floor, a bunch of tabs open and ive been trying to figure out how to build Kess all day.
I built a Scarab God deck but despite me liking the card a lot, he required too much work to get going for my taste. I still kinda want him in a deck. My first plan was wheel/reanimator in order to support Locust/Scarab God. The idea sounds fun, just not sure how to go about executing it and if its the best (or even a reliable) non-storm thing I can do. I mean if it's wheels, maybe Nekusaur is better suited for that?
Some silly idea I came up with was to cast exsanguinate for a bunch of mana with Neheb, the Eternal on board. Use the bunch of mana u got with him and re cast exsanguinate with Kess.
I do like getting advantage out of her casting those small draw spells, what im looking for is a consistent way to win. Just not sure if more creatures or more spells is the way to go.
The deck is very spell efficient, so you can also use stuff like Thraximundar and other big Grixis/Rakdos/Dimir/Izzet threats to beat people down while extracting value out of double casting your spells. The direction I'm going to go in will probably run 25 instants/sorceries, with a focus on the best in class of counterspells/cantrips/removal. The rest of the deck will be pillowfort and big threats, be them planeswalkers or creatures. I also think copying Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire for huge X is great.
I still think Oloro, Ageless Ascetic is the superior reanimator general and Kess, Dissident Mage excels elsewhere. Passing on white in reanimator control means you are missing out on Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Ashen Rider and Avacyn, Angel of Hope, arguably the best reanimator targets in the format. Oloro's lifegain makes playing an agressive mana base along with cards like Mana Crypt less painful and allows cards like Reanimate to impact your life total less. White also gives you Unburial Rites.
Kess allows you to play spells like Exhume and Reanimate multiple times, but a reanimator deck doesn't want to play their commander on turn 4, they ideally want to reanimate a threat.
What I like about Kess, Dissident Mage is you don't have to play her as soon as possible. Frequently from my testing, I like to play her when I have access to 5 mana, that way the same turn I play her, I can cast a spell like Fatal Push, Preordain or Void Snare from my graveyard in the same turn and get immediate value. Alternatively you can play Anger of the Gods/Radiant Flames on turn 3, cast Kess on turn 4 and recast Anger of the Gods on turn 5. She's an amazing midrange/control general that encourages our opponents not to overextend because they know we can reuse our removal spells. It's an incredibly unique ability.
The commander to draw comparisons to would be Dralnu, Lich Lord who costs more mana, has worse stats, doesn't have flying, can't be used the same turn it is played, has a potential backbreaking drawback and doesn't have access to red.
On this note, the other thing I am realizing with her is that you don't need to run a TON of spells, you can just run the best cantrips/removal/control and then reuse it, since this general effectively doubles your spell count.
Since she is already built around the graveyard, I feel the best way to take Kess, Dissident Mage is to make her a reanimator deck with other strong instants and sorceries for backup. Casting the titular Reanimate twice seems good, but even Zombify twice getting scary fatties from three of the best colors for game ending creatures is perfectly fine.
Add a backbone of card filtering and removal spells and I might even go so far as to call her an upgrade over Karador if you're looking to build a pure reanimation deck.
I think there is more interesting space for her than to be a reanimator commander. Red offers little in the reanimation realm and omitting white means losing out on a lot. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic is a much better reanimation general.
While I like the idea of using Kess, Dissident Mage to double up on incremental advantage (i.e. Double Snap, Double Preordain, Double Tragic Slip), flashing back huge spells the following turn as if it were a makeshift rebound can also be powerful. For example, casting Blatant Thievery or Insurrection twice.
While I see the advantages offered by white, Red gives you access to haste enablers (Anger being an all time favorite for exactly this archetype) the value generation of doubling up on reanimation, especially mass reanimation with haste enablers, is entirely back breaking and worth switching red in. Flayer of the Hatebound also adds some gas and transforming your spells into undercosted game-winning creatures seems much more reliable than hoping to storm off or rely on your opponents board with thievery effects.
Since she is already built around the graveyard, I feel the best way to take Kess, Dissident Mage is to make her a reanimator deck with other strong instants and sorceries for backup. Casting the titular Reanimate twice seems good, but even Zombify twice getting scary fatties from three of the best colors for game ending creatures is perfectly fine.
Add a backbone of card filtering and removal spells and I might even go so far as to call her an upgrade over Karador if you're looking to build a pure reanimation deck.
I think there is more interesting space for her than to be a reanimator commander. Red offers little in the reanimation realm and omitting white means losing out on a lot. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic is a much better reanimation general.
While I like the idea of using Kess, Dissident Mage to double up on incremental advantage (i.e. Double Snap, Double Preordain, Double Tragic Slip), flashing back huge spells the following turn as if it were a makeshift rebound can also be powerful. For example, casting Blatant Thievery or Insurrection twice.
The main issue is getting there. 7/8 mana is basically our entire turn, 10 if you want countermagic up to secure it. I think those are fun to curve into, but a focus on them will make the deck too clunky.
You can't really run this deck like an Izzet cost-reduction deck - adding black doesn't help that goal, it opens up tutors, removal, and Grixis creatures. The deck can't ramp or cost reduce enough to justify running several 7+ CMC spells. I think you want to run cards like No Mercy and Dissipation Field and Crawlspace, removal/countermagic/cantrips to keep up the pace and control the board, and then Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh and company.
The 6/6 beatdown strat, gotcha. I think those are all solid picks, I'm going to look for some big burn or X cost spells that I can end out with. Something like Torment of hailfire for 10, copied twice.
I think Exsanguinate is better than Torment of Hailfire for that. I'm not sure I like giving my opponents free sacrifice outlets, and the life gain is also nice. Banefire is also nice because it can't be prevented.
Right. Also, Bond of Agony is a cheezy win if you copy it once or twice - pay 15 life, copy it twice, everyone dies.
The 6/6 beatdown strat, gotcha. I think those are all solid picks, I'm going to look for some big burn or X cost spells that I can end out with. Something like Torment of hailfire for 10, copied twice.
First off, thank you for posting this. I wanted to put one up, but I'm not really good enough at deckbuilding to kick one of these off.
Secondly, Kess is my favorite spoiled commander since Breya. Dragons get good support, Mardu finally gets midrange, and Wizards gets some fun stuff, but boy did Grixis just get an insane value general in Kess.
Keep in mind, she doesn't give us a built in wincon. She gives us insane value and every excuse we need to play a ton of spells and feel like a proper evil wizard. With that in mind, I think we want to look at the following strategies:
My vision is a deck with a ton of cantrips and removal to keep the board in your favor, use Kess to play out of the graveyard as needed, and then get super oppressive with big Grixis gods and Bolas. The wincon has yet to be decided, as I don't see the Gods flipping into creatures too often. Will probably end up with a direct damage route, if I can't find enough big flying beats.
I'm currently horridly bored of all of my decks, and I'm getting the feeling it's because they're all quite linear (or maybe I'm just bad).
Padeem - Artifact combo, boring. You pretty much always have one linear goal, combo out.
Erebos - Big mana, boring. You get to play lots of spells, but mono colored decks are one dimensional by nature.
Locust God - Explosive token anthem / etb pain. Not necessarily linear, but the deck might as well be a combo deck with how much it relies on Locust God being out. The only other wincons in Izzet draw are going to be combo.
Atraxa (Non Friends) - Lots of triggers, but you're always attempting to just stack a ton of +1/+1 counters and swing as big as possible.
That leaves me with my favorite deck, Animar, which does it's best to play as many creatures as quickly as possible and overrun with Craterhoof effects.
This leads me to my question. What decks do you guys consider to be the more interactive and synergistic decks, or generals that helm these types of decks? Decks with non obvious routes to winning (aka not combo or Zur pillowfort). I want a deck that isn't going to get me hated on by my group (who doesn't play combo, which is fine by me) but that will have strong synergy within itself and always have lots of options at any given time.
What decks do you guys find to be constantly full of options and paths to victory?
Mechanized Production
Lab Maniac, go super draw heavy
Stall the game until you can get a bunch of flying beaters out
Mono blue has really bad wincons if you're not going lock/combo. I applaud your attempt, and wish you luck, just don't expect the deck to be very good.
I try to choose colors that won't be overlapping too much with other decks I currently own. If the colors do overlap, I try to choose themes that won't overlap. I don't want to spend tons of money on EDH, so I try to stick to cheaper themes and colors I already own some cards for.
The deck is very spell efficient, so you can also use stuff like Thraximundar and other big Grixis/Rakdos/Dimir/Izzet threats to beat people down while extracting value out of double casting your spells. The direction I'm going to go in will probably run 25 instants/sorceries, with a focus on the best in class of counterspells/cantrips/removal. The rest of the deck will be pillowfort and big threats, be them planeswalkers or creatures. I also think copying Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire for huge X is great.
On this note, the other thing I am realizing with her is that you don't need to run a TON of spells, you can just run the best cantrips/removal/control and then reuse it, since this general effectively doubles your spell count.
Why not just run Marchesa?
The main issue is getting there. 7/8 mana is basically our entire turn, 10 if you want countermagic up to secure it. I think those are fun to curve into, but a focus on them will make the deck too clunky.
You can't really run this deck like an Izzet cost-reduction deck - adding black doesn't help that goal, it opens up tutors, removal, and Grixis creatures. The deck can't ramp or cost reduce enough to justify running several 7+ CMC spells. I think you want to run cards like No Mercy and Dissipation Field and Crawlspace, removal/countermagic/cantrips to keep up the pace and control the board, and then Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh and company.
Right. Also, Bond of Agony is a cheezy win if you copy it once or twice - pay 15 life, copy it twice, everyone dies.
For reference, the list of cards I'm compiling to go through is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1774791
Secondly, Kess is my favorite spoiled commander since Breya. Dragons get good support, Mardu finally gets midrange, and Wizards gets some fun stuff, but boy did Grixis just get an insane value general in Kess.
Keep in mind, she doesn't give us a built in wincon. She gives us insane value and every excuse we need to play a ton of spells and feel like a proper evil wizard. With that in mind, I think we want to look at the following strategies:
Now, my playgroup doesn't like nor really play cutthroat decks, so no need to go the combo/lockdown route or the storm route. For more of a fun, casual-lite Grixis flavor build, I'm thinking I want Erebos, God of the Dead, Thassa, God of the Sea, Mogis, God of Slaughter, The Locust God, The Scorpion God, and Keranos, God of Storms. I also want Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh.
Other cards to think about are Reiterate and Reverberate. Also staples like Rite of Replication.
My vision is a deck with a ton of cantrips and removal to keep the board in your favor, use Kess to play out of the graveyard as needed, and then get super oppressive with big Grixis gods and Bolas. The wincon has yet to be decided, as I don't see the Gods flipping into creatures too often. Will probably end up with a direct damage route, if I can't find enough big flying beats.
I was thinking of going the Brood Tyrant route, this just reinforces that
Padeem - Artifact combo, boring. You pretty much always have one linear goal, combo out.
Erebos - Big mana, boring. You get to play lots of spells, but mono colored decks are one dimensional by nature.
Locust God - Explosive token anthem / etb pain. Not necessarily linear, but the deck might as well be a combo deck with how much it relies on Locust God being out. The only other wincons in Izzet draw are going to be combo.
Atraxa (Non Friends) - Lots of triggers, but you're always attempting to just stack a ton of +1/+1 counters and swing as big as possible.
That leaves me with my favorite deck, Animar, which does it's best to play as many creatures as quickly as possible and overrun with Craterhoof effects.
This leads me to my question. What decks do you guys consider to be the more interactive and synergistic decks, or generals that helm these types of decks? Decks with non obvious routes to winning (aka not combo or Zur pillowfort). I want a deck that isn't going to get me hated on by my group (who doesn't play combo, which is fine by me) but that will have strong synergy within itself and always have lots of options at any given time.
What decks do you guys find to be constantly full of options and paths to victory?
Lab Maniac, go super draw heavy
Stall the game until you can get a bunch of flying beaters out
Mono blue has really bad wincons if you're not going lock/combo. I applaud your attempt, and wish you luck, just don't expect the deck to be very good.