we can all agree that imab stopping by to post a picture but not tell us his night actions is either scummy or just douchey, right?
my money is on both, but whatevs
vlas are vlas. It's poor play to try and read anything into it and poor sportsmanship to try and paint people as scummy for it.
antny's unwillingness to vote anyone else in any situation seems wrong to me.
again, i understand not believing me. my claim looks like bull*****. i dont have any problem with votes on me.
but "I’m not unvoting Tom at this point for any reason" is just not townie play.
especially looking at his comments Yesterday about voting for a lynch that could happen
The only reason you weren't lynch Day 1 was because of Nacho, and seriously don't believe he can honestly be that stubborn as to not let us lynch you now.
So yeah, unless there's another confscum, I have no interest in postponing your lynch another day.
Why waste a lynch on Tom when a)there are still scum to lynch and b)if he wins when all the mafia are eliminated it would make sense for them to NK him, even if we mislynch they could still lose members to wolf kills and give him a free win...
A game where you are town and have a similar but separate win condition from the other half of the town,
OR
A game where you and the rest of the town have the same win condition, BUT your half of the town has to get more "points" than the other half?
This is the Iso post I'm referring to: he's wanted to play around with the idea of 2 separate towns.
This neutral role is unique (Iso makes plenty of unique neutrals with my limited experience with him), and it also plays with the two town idea on a smaller scale.
And while it's possible he was coached into it, it doesn't seem overly likely to me, but I'd be interested in hearing why people think otherwise.
Iso creates a lot of games. Why would the one with two towns be the one with two scumteams. That doesn’t make any sense.
There's plenty of precedent for the same role being called different things by mods to fool players. One of the very first games on this site, Lord of the Rings Mafia, had different cadres of vanilla townies who had different sets of names (like some were Riders of Rohan and some where another thing I forget) which had no in-game effect other than to be confusing.
My game!
And your analogy is entirely inappropriate.
Eh, I'd argue it's only 90% inapposite. My point is, I'm not putting my read on tom on the line for a feeling that two roles with comparable abilities couldn't be called entirely different things.
Also, after these last three posts by Zionite, I'm almost equal on willingness to lynch Sir Chris or him, i.e. total. Definitely Zionite's posts are much much worse than tom's.
I like that Xyre has had the same reaction to Zion’s posts that I have and asked the same question I wanted to ask Chris.
You haven't done anything anti-town. The case against you is that you're not town though. You may be a pro-town role but we can't really take your claim as truth. Not to mention it's going to be harder to squeeze neutrals into a game with two scum teams already. You'd have to be the only one, and there merely as a weak supporting character to the town. It just doesn't fit the pretty picture.
It's a tough call. The speed of the wagon is both concerning and justified. However, I'm going to say we should not lynch tomsloger in favor of sir chris or wildfire, or maybe antny. Obviously tom isn't cleared from being scum, but he hasn't done anything whatsoever that's been detrimental to town play. We've got his cards on the table; I want to see what the other suspects are holding now.
Awful fencesitting. I can see Zion being Toms buddy and unsure of whether he wants to bus here or whether there’s a way out thanks to Nacho.
From this, I'd conclude that his scum buddies are most likely within [Vaimes, DoTA, Xyre, Axelrod, Tordeck], because those are the ones that have an unusually low portion of interactions per post. Vaimes stands out as between the two players in that slot, he's been the third most active slot this game, yet he has considerably fewer interactions than the surrounding players. Tordeck also stands out because Tom spends the early game going "maybe he's scummy. What if he's scummy? But meh!" and then arbitrarily decides he likes it so Tordeck is probably town. I also like Xyre for his team because of the abrupt about-face combined with barely interacting.
I'd say tom/Vaimes/Xyre is a pretty good shot at being a team, with Tordeck being a fourth member or a replacement for the Vaimes or Xyre if they turn out not to be.
Considering we don’t have a flip, nor currently even a way to lynch, why go to all this effort?
If Tom is scum, I’d look closer at Wildfire for this.
So yeah, it's essentially that he claimed Governor and he's townreading you.
You put these words into his mouth completely.
Did I, let's look at your perspective then:
He said that what worries him about early claims is that people seems to buy them immediately for little to no reason.1 He's pointed out that I've explained a rationale for claiming when I did (IABM didn't)2, and he pointed out that I am not budging when I could have took this opportunity to back off so the chances of me having to prove my claim would be smaller.3
I have no doubts that the fact that I am defending him factors into his townread, but that's a natural response which is the reason why scum buddying as a tactic exists.
Shall I sum this up:
1 Claiming early (and actually not alignment indicative in the slightest).
2 I believe IMAB did but I will check this when I have more time. Either way, again it's that you claimed and then explained why you claimed where IAMB apparently hasn't (which is basically assuming scum just claim at the start day without thinking it through, which is not my experience and doesn't seem like a logical leap to make for a new player)
3 Fair enough, although it all comes back to "he claimed Governor and he's townreading you".
I mean if either you or Tom can give me something that is neither related to your claimed role or your read on Tom, I'll retract the statement. Otherwise I'm bored of arguing this further.
Also
unvote, vote Etr
Since he's the only one of my three strong scumread you apparent will not governor today.
I'll read page 20+ when I get home tonight.
This post does not inspire good feelings about Anty. This post seems to be an argument with Nacho over Tom's reasoning for believing Nacho to be Town. Anty is saying Tom's reasoning is poor. But then Anty unvotes and changes to someone he hasn't talked about at all because Nacho is just going to Goven Tom (and next suspect whoever that is) anyway. Which certainly reads like Anty believes the claim (and presumably that Nacho is Town for it?) I sense frustration here that isn't exactly warranted by the posts.
Well, yeah.
I can’t lynch Tom unless Nacho is lying.
And I believe Nacho.
Also I can’t lynch Tapping unless Nacho is lying.
And I believe Nacho.
So out of three strong scumreads I’m voting the only one I have a chance of getting lynched today.
Frustration is because I have likely town protecting scum from being lynched.
That's a bizarre thing for time to write. Once someone is on his scum list they become a "white whale" from which he will tunnel everything they say as scummy and must be constantly be reminded that someone didn;t actually say the thing Tom is claiming or that he's just straight up tunneling town as scum.
tunnelling seems like an odd thing for you to be on, as i have been mentioned in well over half your posts this game, starting from the first one after confirm.
seriously, i looked it up. 61 out of 107 are either about me, responding to me, or reference me.
but i will freely admit that is a problem i have, in life as well as mafia. once i form an opinion i tend to keep it for awhile.
i think ive been better with that in this game: ive done 180s on you, gj, zionite (twice), and jobie.
i do still have a few reads that i formed near the beginning and havent changed. most notably imab. ive gone back and tried to convince myself imab might be town. it didnt work.
I am not really seeing this case on Tom. The bolded alone should give people pause. What newb scum, under pressure, actually thinks to say that particular sentence? Scum don't have to go back and convince themselves of towniness. They simply know it to be true. In this instance I just don't see Tom using this phrase to try and persuade us to listen to his read as scum using this language tell.
Scum do lie Hunt. And in a game like this, scum will also being trying to work out who’s in the other scumteam.
Either way, this seems like weak reasoning to townread Tom.
Next was Nacho's claim. I am of the camp that still feels he claimed for the easy towncred. The role would be perfectly suited for scum in this set up, as he could pardon his fellow scum buddy and still look townie simply based on role. We all know Iso loves his "normally-______-roles-on-opposite-alignment," so it's a possibility, albeit a long shot. Occam's tells me he is just plain town, but I am ignoring the damn razor. He's scum numero dos.
I’m not going to waste my brief explaining why this is wrong.
People I will not vote for today unless NEW posts surface that are totally damning:Nacho, GJ, S.C., WF, IABM, Antny.
It's pretty scary that you completely feel the opposite from me on just about all of these reads. But then again... You are scum, so there is that.
And where exactly does this certainty come from?
Two things:
1) I have not nor have I any intention to read Predator mafia. People wishing to make meta arguments are literally going to have put posts from the game into the thread if they want me care.
2) I’m happy with either Hunt or EtR at this point.
So, I’m going to place where the more people are at.
So yeah, it's essentially that he claimed Governor and he's townreading you.
You put these words into his mouth completely.
Did I, let's look at your perspective then:
He said that what worries him about early claims is that people seems to buy them immediately for little to no reason.1 He's pointed out that I've explained a rationale for claiming when I did (IABM didn't)2, and he pointed out that I am not budging when I could have took this opportunity to back off so the chances of me having to prove my claim would be smaller.3
I have no doubts that the fact that I am defending him factors into his townread, but that's a natural response which is the reason why scum buddying as a tactic exists.
Shall I sum this up:
1 Claiming early (and actually not alignment indicative in the slightest).
2 I believe IMAB did but I will check this when I have more time. Either way, again it's that you claimed and then explained why you claimed where IAMB apparently hasn't (which is basically assuming scum just claim at the start day without thinking it through, which is not my experience and doesn't seem like a logical leap to make for a new player)
3 Fair enough, although it all comes back to "he claimed Governor and he's townreading you".
I mean if either you or Tom can give me something that is neither related to your claimed role or your read on Tom, I'll retract the statement. Otherwise I'm bored of arguing this further.
Also
unvote, vote Etr
Since he's the only one of my three strong scumread you apparent will not governor today.
I would be incredibly disappointed if Nacho's is governor and simply decided to take the two players posting the most (Tom and TS) and decided they are town for it and stops us lynching them.
vlas are vlas. It's poor play to try and read anything into it and poor sportsmanship to try and paint people as scummy for it.
The only reason you weren't lynch Day 1 was because of Nacho, and seriously don't believe he can honestly be that stubborn as to not let us lynch you now.
So yeah, unless there's another confscum, I have no interest in postponing your lynch another day.
Tom is caught. There is a guilty on his head and his claim is a desperate attempt to explain it away.
His day 1 behavior is just as consistent with him being scum as it is with his claim.
Sure, but that assumes that his claim is true.
Which it almost certainly isn't.
Second, I’m Andrei and I’m curious about where this nameclaim is going.
Further,
If you were so clearly off base why keep going back to the interaction chart. It clearly isn’t going to be as much use as you thought right?
Iso creates a lot of games. Why would the one with two towns be the one with two scumteams. That doesn’t make any sense.
Had you considered any kills outside of Nacho or Tom?
I like that Xyre has had the same reaction to Zion’s posts that I have and asked the same question I wanted to ask Chris.
This is odd. Nacho, how many games have you played with Chris?
Awful fencesitting. I can see Zion being Toms buddy and unsure of whether he wants to bus here or whether there’s a way out thanks to Nacho.
Actually this would be more accurate.
No delaying, just claim.
I don't really want anyone getting accidentally hammered here.
@Iso - can we get an official votecount please?
If Xyre is scum then how is he playing well. He has been one of the most suspected players toDay?
Similarly how would that be good if he was town?
You have, and this is right albeit quite abridged.
How on earth did you not realise this was a joke?
Considering we don’t have a flip, nor currently even a way to lynch, why go to all this effort?
If Tom is scum, I’d look closer at Wildfire for this.
Well, yeah.
I can’t lynch Tom unless Nacho is lying.
And I believe Nacho.
Also I can’t lynch Tapping unless Nacho is lying.
And I believe Nacho.
So out of three strong scumreads I’m voting the only one I have a chance of getting lynched today.
Frustration is because I have likely town protecting scum from being lynched.
Scum do lie Hunt. And in a game like this, scum will also being trying to work out who’s in the other scumteam.
Either way, this seems like weak reasoning to townread Tom.
EtR hasn’t been lurking as much as some….
I’m not going to waste my brief explaining why this is wrong.
And where exactly does this certainty come from?
Two things:
1) I have not nor have I any intention to read Predator mafia. People wishing to make meta arguments are literally going to have put posts from the game into the thread if they want me care.
2) I’m happy with either Hunt or EtR at this point.
So, I’m going to place where the more people are at.
Unvote, vote Huntzilla
Did I, let's look at your perspective then:
Shall I sum this up:
1 Claiming early (and actually not alignment indicative in the slightest).
2 I believe IMAB did but I will check this when I have more time. Either way, again it's that you claimed and then explained why you claimed where IAMB apparently hasn't (which is basically assuming scum just claim at the start day without thinking it through, which is not my experience and doesn't seem like a logical leap to make for a new player)
3 Fair enough, although it all comes back to "he claimed Governor and he's townreading you".
I mean if either you or Tom can give me something that is neither related to your claimed role or your read on Tom, I'll retract the statement. Otherwise I'm bored of arguing this further.
Also
unvote, vote Etr
Since he's the only one of my three strong scumread you apparent will not governor today.
I'll read page 20+ when I get home tonight.
No. Not while Nacho is saying he will save him.
Given we currently can't lynch, what do you think the benefits of a claim are?
I did but it's basically more of the same about imab claim and we've discussed to death.
Why are you pulling imab into this when the question was about Nacho. Let me ask it again:
Why is Nacho the towniest player?
Is it simply that he claimed Governor early, without pressure and that he has townread you with little explanation this game? Is that it?
I guess your alluding to their claims but I don't really see how that works.
Your basically ignored imab claim because you didn't understand what it did and couldn't be bothered to find out. But you found it scummy he claimed.
And Nacho is the opposite because...
No I'm stuck. Nacho also claimed early. I am on completely the wrong track here...
Tom explain what I'm missing.