@Antny: At some point, someone had to have triggered you into playing the game. I remember you doing absolutely nothing until people heckled you too much. I was really expecting you to replace out and give us someone good. Is that what caused your turn of face?
No, it really just comes down to time. Right now, I'm on vacation meaning my schedule clearer.
The thing is, I'm pretty sure this happened after you started townreading me so strongly, but I'll have to go back and check at some point.
I also asked you about what happened if Xyre is hammered/pardoned and whether we can use that as an additional lynch but I realise now that wouldn't work because we still end the day so you can ignore it.
vote Dota
The lynch I want today is Dota. I don't buy his explanation for blocking Nacho. If people are still unsure of imab, then we should agree that someone with a werewolf killing bullet shoots him tonight to resolve the issue once and for all. Lynching him when we have a means to clear him/kill him is just dumb.
I would still support either an EtR lynch (especially since he is playing coy on the one piece information that could confirm his role) or TS.
I'm not interested in lynching any of Xyre, GJ, Nacho or imab today.
Right now, I think we can still lose unless we quickly eliminate one scum team, which means this night is critical. So we need to think very carefully about what information (or misinformation) we let out into the world, and who asks the questions. So until further notice, I'm basically ignoring everything my scum suspects say/ask.
Convenient way to dodge questions you don't like, if you don't mind me saying.
I'm the pope. One shot saintmaker. Xyre is a saint (as of N2) and he shouldn't have received notification of this. When someone hammers Xyre, the hammerer dies too. This is pointless because I don't want to lynch Xyre any more.
Just a quick thought. If Xyre is hammered and then pardoned, does the hammerer still die?
My posting level is basically an indicator of how much time I have. I'm not sure where you got the "Antny only tries as a town power role theory" from.
Seppel, which posts of mine originally made you think I was town?
@Dota - Please claim all your actions for all nights.
@EtR - Please claim who (if anyone) targetted Xyre last night.
@Xyre, GJ - Can one of you explain to me why a double voter is worth protecting over anyone else?
None of these questions should be answered. This is classic scum fishing for tactical information.
Ok, assume I'm scum for a second:
1) How can DotA's previous actions be used as a tactical advantages? (While I'm here what is your current opinion on Dota?)
2) How can EtR previous action be used as a tactical advantage? Furthermore, why should we believe EtR's claim if he refuses to respond?
3) Same question. How could either response offer a tactical advantage. You already asked GJ to protect Axel publicly. Why would asking you to explain your mindset offer any tactical advantage?
P.S. I'm still waiting for you to explain your thoughts on my TS case.
I'm the pope. One shot saintmaker. Xyre is a saint (as of N2) and he shouldn't have received notification of this. When someone hammers Xyre, the hammerer dies too. This is pointless because I don't want to lynch Xyre any more.
Just a quick thought. If Xyre is hammered and then pardoned, does the hammerer still die?
My posting level is basically an indicator of how much time I have. I'm not sure where you got the "Antny only tries as a town power role theory" from.
@Dota - Please claim all your actions for all nights.
@Xyre - We're not limiting our options today to just the people you find scummy.
@EtR - Please claim who (if anyone) targetted Xyre last night.
@Xyre, GJ - Can one of you explain to me why a double voter is worth protecting over anyone else?
Seppel, can you remind me what games we've played together in?
I don't know. You're so unmemorable. But I've played in maybe half of all games on this site, so if you played in a game, chances are that I was in it.
Sure but I've been scum twice. One was uPick mafia. You weren't in that (although hilarilously someone playing as "Seppel" was, I wonder if you can guess who ) and the other was Archer mafia where I replaced out Day 1 after maybe one or two posts. Even if you were in Archer you could not really have got a grasp on my scumgame in so few posts So why do you feel your familar with my scumgame?
I'm ready for a mass claim now that Dota has outed himself. Xyre is off the table for me. IMAB and Tapping are front runners at this point. There is enough in this game that demonstrates that Businessman is not acting in our best interest.
Vote: BusinessMan
Oh look, a new frontrunner for worst vote of the day.
Before you ask - any quote I excluded either isn't pertinent to this case or otherwise isn't aimed at you, so I edited them out. I'll come back to them later, if I'm alive, based on how your corpse falls.
How long have you been playing mafia Xyre?
When have you ever seen this sort of flavour gaming work?
Ten years.
And it almost never works. That's why I'm not putting a lot of faith in it. But having read a lot of Iso's setups, I also know it's not entirely beyond the pale for that kind of glitch to make it through.[/quote]
With all due respect, you seem to be putting a lot of faith in it.
Please finish the Axel pbpa, clearing because he’s got a TMNT name is simply wrong.
You're not my ninja turtle supervisor!
I could be a ninja turtle supervisor if I wanted to.
This wasn’t a substantive post. I never claimed it was, and in addition to looking up the word substantive, I strongly suggest you look irony up in a dictionary because people always look down on you when you get that word wrong.
This post is transparent is intended. I hadn’t read the game, but I saw there was a leading wagon and wanted to see how people would respond if I jumped on it. Occasionally you can catch newbscum with these sort of traps. I actually thought I got one with Rodemy.
Substantive = not in confirmation. And I know what the word irony means. Just because you've heard the joke about the Alanis Morrisette song doesn't mean you're a rhetorician. Here I'm using it in the sense of exaggerated joking fashion, adjacent to "facetious".[/quote]
I don't get the reference, but assume none of this is actually important... good, moving on...
I don't believe this was a trap. You can't just call something a trap because someone bit at it. My vote on imabusinessman at the beginning of the game wasn't a trap, for instance, even though Necarg reacted to it like a scum and I thus "caught" him with it. No, I think you meant to participate without actually contributing, and wanted people to not look askance at it, so you dressed it up with affected silliness. That's not a trap; that's just scum filling space.
If I wanted to fill space why wouldn't I do so in a less suspicious fashion by doing just about anything else?
This is an extension on 308. Yes, part of my vote was based on the fact he didn’t look up the roles. The reason was he was apparently thorough casing imab because of imab claim. Yet, apparently he didn’t understand what the roles did. I can’t understand why a town player would get suspicious about a claim, and yet never wonder what said claim means. It’s not just that he didn’t google it, but he never asked in the thread, he never did anything. Did you not find that weird Xyre?
I didn't understand what imabusinessman meant at the time, either. Nor did Axel. And townies can fail to do research just as well as scum. Once again: it's not about what anyone did, but why they did it.
But the difference is what did you do. Tom put the way imab claimed as an integral part of his scumcase, yet he didn't spend the time trying to work out what the roles were. He should have done. It was the townie action to do. It took next to no time to find out on the internet. If I hadn't have been able to do that, it would have been easy to ask imab. The fact he didn't is absolutely something that should be considered when looking for scum. When building cases scum will make these sort of mistakes more than town because they are less interested in trying to actually figure things out and more interested in simply getting the lynch.
As for why you and Axel didn't bother finding out what the role does, I won't speculate. Failing to do research isn't a scumtell in itself. Failing to even try to research something on your top scumread as to what his claimed role actually does is scummy.
If lack of context was a concern you should have asked at the time :p. Most the time I leave this stuff blank to see who will question it. Just because I put Zion below you doesn’t mean that I can’t change my mind. I didn’t like one of your posts on the next page though I can’t remember which after a month and a half.
I don’t see why voting you was pointless, since if other people had jumped onto the wagon, there would have been a viable chance of lynching you. They did not, so there was not, so I shifted my vote.
Here's where the game ends. First, another reliance on the fake "it's a trap" defense. Second, a clear admission of voting to start wagons rather than achieve useful results. If he thought I was scum, he'd have actually tried to lynch me. But he is scum, and only cares if he can get support behind lynching townies.
I never said it was a trap. To the contrary it's actually seeing who is interested in questioning me because town rather than scum will be more interested in my reasons.
Second, it was Day 1. I gave up trying to catch scum on Day 1 years ago. It's far more important to get a lynch and analyse in subsequent days than producing hundreds of posts trying to get the perfect lynch. If I could get force every other player to my will this forum would never have a day 1 go over 500 posts, regardless of the amount of players (but that's another story and we're close to me moaning about the problems of mtgsalvation mafia again).
Analyse comes from flips. Without them we're just guessing and arguing. So no, I make no bones about lynching players Day 1 who happen to be town.
Finally, I certainly wasn't townreading you day 1, that came in subsequent days.
I don’t know why me engaging with Tom is irrelevent.
Because you were far from the only person who was wrong about him, so it's almost impossible to set good intentions apart from bad.
Fair enough, I'll concede he wasn't scum.
I don’t see how this and the claim are related. What are you getting at here Xyre?
I already said it there - I think your criticism of imabusinessman's defense to my vote was an attempt to position yourself to bus him should he falter further. Up to this point, you'd had nary a bad word to say about him, but now you're pointing out flaws in his reasoning? What changed?
Why does something have to have changed
Seriously, if we didn't point out suspicions simply because we haven't previous said something bad, this game would stall due to inertia.
I should probably have said, I have reasons for voting you, I don’t have a prepared case I can pull out my ass at a moments notice.
Right, but you didn't say that. You immediately wilted under pressure. That interests me.
Hindsight twenty-twenty I probably should have said it. I'll choose my words more carefully in the future I guess.
Everyone was kicking me. Not just one person, not just in the game. I’m feel bad about it now, but at the time, when I was putting off other things just to get something down and have no one appreciate, it just makes you ask what’s the point. People ***** that I don’t make the effort. The tragic thing is I do. I put my time into this than I should, and I always be second to guys that can seemingly manage everything else with ease.
Don't play for the glory, play for the game, bro. (Also, my point is that self-pity is a classic scum tell, as compared with anger from townies.)
I have never played for glory and I am not about to begin now.
Well, I think they do. I probably should write up a comprehensive list at some point.
Please do.
I will.
I’m sorry you don’t find this useful. I spent ages reading over Day 1 and Day 2, and this is what I got.
It’s not that I can’t be assed too squeeze them into scumslots, it’s that I didn’t want to. I didn’t find anything that linked Zion to either Chris or Hunt as a buddy. What’s the point in trying to force a guy into a slot without reasoning. My scumreads in 2012 were based on their behaviour and I’m not concerned (and still not) with trying to worry not much about which team they are in.
I don’t think we’re dealing with teams more than three at this point, giving the flipped neutrals we would have started off with a minority of players being town which implies three man teams.
But why not? Did you believe all three of Tapping, Wildfire, and EtR must have been scum? If so, shouldn't they be split into the two different teams?
No because simply because some one is scummy doesn't mean I have to peg them for a paticular team. I put these three with Chris based on interactions. Hunt gave me nothing based on interactions so I have no additional insight in who could be mafia.
Doesn't that change how you read them in context? The fact that you didn't even think about making that effort demonstrates how useless your analysis was.
How could I have known prior the analyse how little I would get out of it.
For how worthless imabusinessman's "which team am I on?" strut was, he did have a point that this is a game where we need to hone in carefully on relationships because there's just less evidence available than usual. And the complete disconnect between your list of suspects and your guess as to team compositions suggests again to me that you care only about the bottom line of (mis)lynches rather than solidly deducing who the scum are.
I'll say it again, I have no interest in trying to solve the game where two-thirds of the scum are out there.
And my point is that you immediately pinned down that there are three people on each team. Now, I think there are three on each team, too (based on the fact that 8/2/2 is the standard for 12 player games, and this is 50% more people), but I'm not positive about that. You didn't even think twice about it. That makes me think maybe you know one of the scum teams has three members.
Best guesses don't constitute inside information. I could add a disclaimed to every post explaining that this is an estimate rather than a fact. I could edit the above point and instead of two-thirds it's only a logical guess best upon my theory of the setup that it's two thirds. I don't feel that kind of beating around the bush should be necessary.
Also, I didn't make mention of it, but it does seem apropos that you filled out the werewolf team but not the mafia team; it's almost as though you cared more about the comings-and-goings of the former than the latter, as if you were worried about what Sir Chris might suggest about you. That these are things you've thought a lot about.
As I explained, Hunt didn't post enough for me to make any judgements on whose on his team. If you feel I missed something point it out.
I still don't believe that putting people into teams arbitrarily just so we say "look I solved the game" at this stage is useful.
It’s stuff like this that makes me just want the towel in. It’s clear I put a lot into the case. Three people have commented on it (TS, Seppel, Xyre) have commented on it, and all I get is it’s bad. No attempt to tackle the case itself. If it’s bad, say why. Tell me what you don’t like. Show me where my language tells match with what’s in the case if that’s what you believe.
I'm going to decline until after the game, mostly because it's just not worth the psychic energy. I don't really care whether you think it was a good or bad PBPA, I just care whether you're town or scum. I'm happy to give instructional feedback after the game, but bickering with you over what constitutes good or bad at this stage does nothing to advance my case on you but give me a headache.
No, I going to sit here and hammer you until you either do it or one of us is dead.
So, give me some details about why you think my case against Tapping Stones was bad?
Iabm is a bad vote today. He is already cleared of being mafia. The only remaining possibility is he is a werewolf. And thanks to you we have a method to test that. I hate the fact that Axel is voting a player that we should not be lynching today. Since it appears Nacho didn’t shoot him last night (and Axel couldn’t have known that when he voted Hunt), he isn’t clear but there’s a chance that he could have been at the time in additional to the fact we can clear him.
I agree imabusinessman is a poor choice for today. Because you're a good choice for today, and he's a good choice for tomorrow.
Wouldn't the best play be to shoot him tonight and then problem solved. If he's a werewolf he's dead. If he's not dead, he's town.
I'm sorry Tapping. That last comment wasn't really directed at you, and isn't solely about this game, more about issues I've had throughout 2015. It's fairer to put a line under it and focus on game related stuff.
Tapping, let's give you a chance to convince me your town. I'd reckon we have four scum to find. Who are your top four scumreads right now in order of confidence of being scum?
This is ironic given I DID go into detail why your case was bad.
Not really. You ignored a majority of what I said and went on about how town you were.
And for the love of God stop taking things so seriously.
If I try not taking things seriously, people ***** that ruining game because I'm not taking things seriously enough. I try taking things seriously and people complain about that. I someone could tell how exactly I meant this to play this game so as not to ruin other peoples fun I'd do it.
I think the town's power roles are all and only the TMNT characters. Think about it: so far the only townies with abilities we've seen (discounting the two neutrals) have been Zionite (Raphael), Xyre (Leonardo), Nacho (Casey), April (Vaimes), and DoTA (Michaelangelo). That leaves two others - EtR (Ninjara) and Axelrod (Donatello). I suspect both of them are also townies with abilities of some type.
That immediately puts imabusinessman on the outs, because he's a claimed investigator who nonetheless isn't a TMNT character. Since I trust tomsloger's result, that makes imab a werewolf. Which actually makes sense, the more I think about it - that would make Necarg's vote of imab for claiming a sort of freakout-bus, which I've definitely seen scum do to their buddies before when the buddy does something weird (though I can't remember the specific game).
The remaining suspects then are Antny, GJ, TS, and Seppel. And I think I'd set Seppel out as most likely town of those four. Plus it would explain one other overlap in role names - GJ and TS, aka Mario and Luigi. I rather doubt at this point that those two are on different teams. Ergo, both mafia, and Antny is a werewolf.
How long have you been playing mafia Xyre?
When have you ever seen this sort of flavour gaming work?
Screw it, I'm jumping ship completely on finishing the Axel PBPA to do Antny instead.
Please finish the Axel pbpa, clearing because he’s got a TMNT name is simply wrong.
#208 is his first substantive post, and already I'm feeling bad about Antny. This is the same thing I pinpointed about Sir Chris - acknowledging your weird behavior isn't the same thing as not acting weirdly. This feels like an attempt to participate cloaked in "irony".
This wasn’t a substantive post. I never claimed it was, and in addition to looking up the word substantive, I strongly suggest you look irony up in a dictionary because people always look down on you when you get that word wrong.
This post is transparent is intended. I hadn’t read the game, but I saw there was a leading wagon and wanted to see how people would respond if I jumped on it. Occasionally you can catch newbscum with these sort of traps. I actually thought I got one with Rodemy.
The Rodemy vote is a fake trap, but as with most fake traps, there's just enough of a grain of mixed-up reason there that it could be a legitimate attempt at trapping scum, rather than a scum trying to trap a townie. So I'm just not gonna touch that.
The Rodemy vote was serious. It was the previous vote that was the trap. Look over Rodemy’s hesitation, you should see why I voted him.
Interesting that imab defends Antny (231) and vice-versa (288). Putting that in my pocket for the moment.
Can’t speak for imab. Can speak for the fact that I didn’t like the attacks on him.
#343 is ugly, especially the last part, in which Antny seems to essentially vote tomsloger for not looking up some mafiascum wiki pages.
He's claimed two shots which both teams are afraid of. Lynching any decent PR like this is essentially saving a scumteam a kill. Do I really need to tell you why helping scum is bad for town?
but at the very least, his claim means he's certainly town until/unless we reach a point where a 2-shot cop that can't even cop right half the time doesn't fit in the setup.
I think your time might be better spent looking for the mindset of players that we don't have strong reason to believe are town from their claim.
sure, if you believe him. i will admit i didnt look up either of those roles to find out what they actually did.
though i have to say, if seer is for wolves only, that could easily be a scum ability.
I have no reason not to believe him. And more importantly why the hell did you not look up those roles. It took me like 10 second to find them on the mafiascum wiki (so I guess maybe like a minute tops on google).
You were thorough in your case on imab and didn't even have time for that.
Now at least I can certain your talking crap. Back on the wagon I go.
vote Tomslogger
This is an extension on 308. Yes, part of my vote was based on the fact he didn’t look up the roles. The reason was he was apparently thorough casing imab because of imab claim. Yet, apparently he didn’t understand what the roles did. I can’t understand why a town player would get suspicious about a claim, and yet never wonder what said claim means. It’s not just that he didn’t google it, but he never asked in the thread, he never did anything. Did you not find that weird Xyre?
I'm not even going to try to parse #648.
Yes, I made a mistake with tags. It has happened to everyone. Why bring it up?
#787: "Ok, I'm jumping on the Xyre train." No context, no nothin'. And he put me in the middle of his Z/X/J response just one page prior, too. This is mercenary. And then in 825, he pivots right back to tom. So what was the point in voting for me? Just to be a warm body on the wagon? What townie purpose does that serve?
If lack of context was a concern you should have asked at the time :p. Most the time I leave this stuff blank to see who will question it. Just because I put Zion below you doesn’t mean that I can’t change my mind. I didn’t like one of your posts on the next page though I can’t remember which after a month and a half.
I don’t see why voting you was pointless, since if other people had jumped onto the wagon, there would have been a viable chance of lynching you. They did not, so there was not, so I shifted my vote.
(If it seems like there are a lot of gaps here, it's because (a) most of Antny's posts have been engaged with having tom lynched, the flaws in which are sort of non-indicative at this point, and (b) he disappears for big swaths of time.)
I don’t know why me engaging with Tom is irrelevent.
#1971: For someone who's consistently defended imab and his claimm, "Worst defence possible" is not what I expect to hear from Antny regarding imab's defense against me. This and the skepticism above it feel like a pre-bus - skepticism without follow-through or future reference.
Rather surprised Jobie went so hard for tom without considering the possibility they might have similar roles. Very weird. Also surprised the mafia killed Chris - suggests they actually thought he was town and were worried he'd figure them out. That doesn't sound like TappingStones, but that definitely sounds like Wildfire. And Zionite's still probably not a werewolf after all the ***** Chris put him through, so maybe a Zionite - Wildfire mafia team.
But first things first:
Vote imabusinessman
What team am I on and substantiate why. I'm looking forward to seeing this.
Worst defence possible.
I don’t see how this and the claim are related. What are you getting at here Xyre?
Oh, and also I find it amusing and perhaps apropos that imabusinessman is far more accommodating to Antny's requests for clarification (viz. 1983) than other people's. The responses read like they were made by entirely different posters.
I don’t see this, do you have some examples to demonstrate?
#1995-1999: "When did I say I didn't have a case on you, Tapping?" "Okay, let's hear the case." "I don't have a case."
I should probably have said, I have reasons for voting you, I don’t have a prepared case I can pull out my ass at a moments notice.
Turns into self-pitying in #2007. Who's kicking you, Antny? Are you really that bent out of shape by one person calling you on your BS?
Everyone was kicking me. Not just one person, not just in the game. I’m feel bad about it now, but at the time, when I was putting off other things just to get something down and have no one appreciate, it just makes you ask what’s the point. People ***** that I don’t make the effort. The tragic thing is I do. I put my time into this than I should, and I always be second to guys that can seemingly manage everything else with ease.
[qute]#2012 etc.: Gives reads without context, and insists his posts explain why. They don't. Gripes about the criticism at surprising length for someone who professes to not have enough time for the game proper.[/quote]
Well, I think they do. I probably should write up a comprehensive list at some point.
#2094: Not useful. Could be because Antny is simply lost, but it's especially weird that he pinpoints a full four scum suspects in 2012 and then can't really be asked to squeeze them into the scum slots or explain how Zionite fits into that picture whatsoever. (Also, for what it's worth, he never questioned that there might be four more scum left, or even make mention of Seppel's contrary concerns. That feels like a bit of a slip.)
Good news is there is still super fast internet connection here and my laptop works. Bad new is all my notes are in a Word document on my home PC so I get to start from scratch wooo.
Anyway, first thing is rereading Sir Chris/Hunt:
Hunt wagon doesn’t really look that useful based on the speed on of the wagon. It seemed everyone wanted to lynch him. I would expect the werewolves might be keener but I think if I was Hunt’s buddy I would probably have wanted to bus him after his weakass catchup as well.
Also don’t think Hunt’s posting is too useful, although I doubt he has a buddy in Tapping or Etr based on how strongly he went after them.
Depressingly Chris’ day 2 was spent either pushing the inevitable Tom wagon and arguing with Nacho. I already didn’t think Nacho was a likely buddy so there’s not much more there. It is interesting how quick he was to clear Zion in 1737.
So I have:
Hunt/???/???
for mafia.
And
Sir Chris/(2 of Tapping/Wildfire/Etr) for werewolves.
And I guess we'll see Wildfire's flip shortly. If he flips werewolf it would confirm my theory that Chris was putting strong townreads on his buddies and I might take another look at Chris/Zion at some point.
Next is the Tapping case, which I'll write between putting more Christmassy stuff, so assuming not too many other distractions I should have it in a couple of hours. Watch this space....
I’m sorry you don’t find this useful. I spent ages reading over Day 1 and Day 2, and this is what I got.
It’s not that I can’t be assed too squeeze them into scumslots, it’s that I didn’t want to. I didn’t find anything that linked Zion to either Chris or Hunt as a buddy. What’s the point in trying to force a guy into a slot without reasoning. My scumreads in 2012 were based on their behaviour and I’m not concerned (and still not) with trying to worry not much about which team they are in.
I don’t think we’re dealing with teams more than three at this point, giving the flipped neutrals we would have started off with a minority of players being town which implies three man teams.
#2104: His TS case isn't good. It just... isn't. Also, the language read which Seppel notes works on Antny as well, as mentioned above.
It’s stuff like this that makes me just want the towel in. It’s clear I put a lot into the case. Three people have commented on it (TS, Seppel, Xyre) have commented on it, and all I get is it’s bad. No attempt to tackle the case itself. If it’s bad, say why. Tell me what you don’t like. Show me where my language tells match with what’s in the case if that’s what you believe.
#2126: No explanation = bad sign, since this is yet another example of Antny protecting imab for unclear reasons.
You want an explanation, ask.
Since I anticipate you will, I’ll answer in advance.
Iabm is a bad vote today. He is already cleared of being mafia. The only remaining possibility is he is a werewolf. And thanks to you we have a method to test that. I hate the fact that Axel is voting a player that we should not be lynching today. Since it appears Nacho didn’t shoot him last night (and Axel couldn’t have known that when he voted Hunt), he isn’t clear but there’s a chance that he could have been at the time in additional to the fact we can clear him.
Actually, since I can't get a Tapping lynch right now
vote Axelrod
This is a joke right? I mean Axelrod could totally be scum but this vote is terrible. IABM has pressure on him because his game has lots of posts that people can't comprehend from town. I've stayed off him for a long time (until near the end of yesterday to be exact) but what is he doing? Trying to force us to vote him out? I can't understand a town IABM this game and I'm someone who has given him benefit of the doubt throughout.
First, awesome fencesit on Axelrod.
Second, am I being dense here. I'm pretty sure imab is one of the worst votes unless I completely misunderstood something.
I begged Antny to bring a case on me and he brought scraps to the table, there was no meat to his argument.
Nonsense, there was plenty of meat and you simply refuse to respond most of it. But you can write the case of all you like, since your not the person I need to convince?
No, it really just comes down to time. Right now, I'm on vacation meaning my schedule clearer.
The thing is, I'm pretty sure this happened after you started townreading me so strongly, but I'll have to go back and check at some point.
I also asked you about what happened if Xyre is hammered/pardoned and whether we can use that as an additional lynch but I realise now that wouldn't work because we still end the day so you can ignore it.
vote Dota
The lynch I want today is Dota. I don't buy his explanation for blocking Nacho. If people are still unsure of imab, then we should agree that someone with a werewolf killing bullet shoots him tonight to resolve the issue once and for all. Lynching him when we have a means to clear him/kill him is just dumb.
I would still support either an EtR lynch (especially since he is playing coy on the one piece information that could confirm his role) or TS.
I'm not interested in lynching any of Xyre, GJ, Nacho or imab today.
Convenient way to dodge questions you don't like, if you don't mind me saying.
Seppel, which posts of mine originally made you think I was town?
Ok, assume I'm scum for a second:
1) How can DotA's previous actions be used as a tactical advantages? (While I'm here what is your current opinion on Dota?)
2) How can EtR previous action be used as a tactical advantage? Furthermore, why should we believe EtR's claim if he refuses to respond?
3) Same question. How could either response offer a tactical advantage. You already asked GJ to protect Axel publicly. Why would asking you to explain your mindset offer any tactical advantage?
P.S. I'm still waiting for you to explain your thoughts on my TS case.
Just a quick thought. If Xyre is hammered and then pardoned, does the hammerer still die?
My posting level is basically an indicator of how much time I have. I'm not sure where you got the "Antny only tries as a town power role theory" from.
@Dota - Please claim all your actions for all nights.
@Xyre - We're not limiting our options today to just the people you find scummy.
@EtR - Please claim who (if anyone) targetted Xyre last night.
@Xyre, GJ - Can one of you explain to me why a double voter is worth protecting over anyone else?
Sure but I've been scum twice. One was uPick mafia. You weren't in that (although hilarilously someone playing as "Seppel" was, I wonder if you can guess who ) and the other was Archer mafia where I replaced out Day 1 after maybe one or two posts. Even if you were in Archer you could not really have got a grasp on my scumgame in so few posts So why do you feel your familar with my scumgame?
Oh look, a new frontrunner for worst vote of the day.
vote EtR
Ten years.
And it almost never works. That's why I'm not putting a lot of faith in it. But having read a lot of Iso's setups, I also know it's not entirely beyond the pale for that kind of glitch to make it through.[/quote]
With all due respect, you seem to be putting a lot of faith in it.
I could be a ninja turtle supervisor if I wanted to.
Substantive = not in confirmation. And I know what the word irony means. Just because you've heard the joke about the Alanis Morrisette song doesn't mean you're a rhetorician. Here I'm using it in the sense of exaggerated joking fashion, adjacent to "facetious".[/quote]
I don't get the reference, but assume none of this is actually important... good, moving on...
If I wanted to fill space why wouldn't I do so in a less suspicious fashion by doing just about anything else?
But the difference is what did you do. Tom put the way imab claimed as an integral part of his scumcase, yet he didn't spend the time trying to work out what the roles were. He should have done. It was the townie action to do. It took next to no time to find out on the internet. If I hadn't have been able to do that, it would have been easy to ask imab. The fact he didn't is absolutely something that should be considered when looking for scum. When building cases scum will make these sort of mistakes more than town because they are less interested in trying to actually figure things out and more interested in simply getting the lynch.
As for why you and Axel didn't bother finding out what the role does, I won't speculate. Failing to do research isn't a scumtell in itself. Failing to even try to research something on your top scumread as to what his claimed role actually does is scummy.
I never said it was a trap. To the contrary it's actually seeing who is interested in questioning me because town rather than scum will be more interested in my reasons.
Second, it was Day 1. I gave up trying to catch scum on Day 1 years ago. It's far more important to get a lynch and analyse in subsequent days than producing hundreds of posts trying to get the perfect lynch. If I could get force every other player to my will this forum would never have a day 1 go over 500 posts, regardless of the amount of players (but that's another story and we're close to me moaning about the problems of mtgsalvation mafia again).
Analyse comes from flips. Without them we're just guessing and arguing. So no, I make no bones about lynching players Day 1 who happen to be town.
Finally, I certainly wasn't townreading you day 1, that came in subsequent days.
Fair enough, I'll concede he wasn't scum.
Why does something have to have changed
Seriously, if we didn't point out suspicions simply because we haven't previous said something bad, this game would stall due to inertia.
Hindsight twenty-twenty I probably should have said it. I'll choose my words more carefully in the future I guess.
I have never played for glory and I am not about to begin now.
I will.
No because simply because some one is scummy doesn't mean I have to peg them for a paticular team. I put these three with Chris based on interactions. Hunt gave me nothing based on interactions so I have no additional insight in who could be mafia.
How could I have known prior the analyse how little I would get out of it.
I'll say it again, I have no interest in trying to solve the game where two-thirds of the scum are out there.
Best guesses don't constitute inside information. I could add a disclaimed to every post explaining that this is an estimate rather than a fact. I could edit the above point and instead of two-thirds it's only a logical guess best upon my theory of the setup that it's two thirds. I don't feel that kind of beating around the bush should be necessary.
As I explained, Hunt didn't post enough for me to make any judgements on whose on his team. If you feel I missed something point it out.
I still don't believe that putting people into teams arbitrarily just so we say "look I solved the game" at this stage is useful.
No, I going to sit here and hammer you until you either do it or one of us is dead.
So, give me some details about why you think my case against Tapping Stones was bad?
Wouldn't the best play be to shoot him tonight and then problem solved. If he's a werewolf he's dead. If he's not dead, he's town.
===================================================================================================
Ok, line drawn.
Tapping, let's give you a chance to convince me your town. I'd reckon we have four scum to find. Who are your top four scumreads right now in order of confidence of being scum?
Not really. You ignored a majority of what I said and went on about how town you were.
If I try not taking things seriously, people ***** that ruining game because I'm not taking things seriously enough. I try taking things seriously and people complain about that. I someone could tell how exactly I meant this to play this game so as not to ruin other peoples fun I'd do it.
How long have you been playing mafia Xyre?
When have you ever seen this sort of flavour gaming work?
Please finish the Axel pbpa, clearing because he’s got a TMNT name is simply wrong.
Let’s find some of these posts…
This wasn’t a substantive post. I never claimed it was, and in addition to looking up the word substantive, I strongly suggest you look irony up in a dictionary because people always look down on you when you get that word wrong.
This post is transparent is intended. I hadn’t read the game, but I saw there was a leading wagon and wanted to see how people would respond if I jumped on it. Occasionally you can catch newbscum with these sort of traps. I actually thought I got one with Rodemy.
The Rodemy vote was serious. It was the previous vote that was the trap. Look over Rodemy’s hesitation, you should see why I voted him.
Can’t speak for imab. Can speak for the fact that I didn’t like the attacks on him.
Finding the quote.
This is an extension on 308. Yes, part of my vote was based on the fact he didn’t look up the roles. The reason was he was apparently thorough casing imab because of imab claim. Yet, apparently he didn’t understand what the roles did. I can’t understand why a town player would get suspicious about a claim, and yet never wonder what said claim means. It’s not just that he didn’t google it, but he never asked in the thread, he never did anything. Did you not find that weird Xyre?
Yes, I made a mistake with tags. It has happened to everyone. Why bring it up?
If lack of context was a concern you should have asked at the time :p. Most the time I leave this stuff blank to see who will question it. Just because I put Zion below you doesn’t mean that I can’t change my mind. I didn’t like one of your posts on the next page though I can’t remember which after a month and a half.
I don’t see why voting you was pointless, since if other people had jumped onto the wagon, there would have been a viable chance of lynching you. They did not, so there was not, so I shifted my vote.
I don’t know why me engaging with Tom is irrelevent.
Let me find the bit you’re referring to:
I don’t see how this and the claim are related. What are you getting at here Xyre?
I don’t see this, do you have some examples to demonstrate?
I should probably have said, I have reasons for voting you, I don’t have a prepared case I can pull out my ass at a moments notice.
Everyone was kicking me. Not just one person, not just in the game. I’m feel bad about it now, but at the time, when I was putting off other things just to get something down and have no one appreciate, it just makes you ask what’s the point. People ***** that I don’t make the effort. The tragic thing is I do. I put my time into this than I should, and I always be second to guys that can seemingly manage everything else with ease.
[qute]#2012 etc.: Gives reads without context, and insists his posts explain why. They don't. Gripes about the criticism at surprising length for someone who professes to not have enough time for the game proper.[/quote]
Well, I think they do. I probably should write up a comprehensive list at some point.
Again, let’s grab the post:
I’m sorry you don’t find this useful. I spent ages reading over Day 1 and Day 2, and this is what I got.
It’s not that I can’t be assed too squeeze them into scumslots, it’s that I didn’t want to. I didn’t find anything that linked Zion to either Chris or Hunt as a buddy. What’s the point in trying to force a guy into a slot without reasoning. My scumreads in 2012 were based on their behaviour and I’m not concerned (and still not) with trying to worry not much about which team they are in.
I don’t think we’re dealing with teams more than three at this point, giving the flipped neutrals we would have started off with a minority of players being town which implies three man teams.
It’s stuff like this that makes me just want the towel in. It’s clear I put a lot into the case. Three people have commented on it (TS, Seppel, Xyre) have commented on it, and all I get is it’s bad. No attempt to tackle the case itself. If it’s bad, say why. Tell me what you don’t like. Show me where my language tells match with what’s in the case if that’s what you believe.
You want an explanation, ask.
Since I anticipate you will, I’ll answer in advance.
Iabm is a bad vote today. He is already cleared of being mafia. The only remaining possibility is he is a werewolf. And thanks to you we have a method to test that. I hate the fact that Axel is voting a player that we should not be lynching today. Since it appears Nacho didn’t shoot him last night (and Axel couldn’t have known that when he voted Hunt), he isn’t clear but there’s a chance that he could have been at the time in additional to the fact we can clear him.
First, awesome fencesit on Axelrod.
Second, am I being dense here. I'm pretty sure imab is one of the worst votes unless I completely misunderstood something.
Nonsense, there was plenty of meat and you simply refuse to respond most of it. But you can write the case of all you like, since your not the person I need to convince?