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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I'll give you my opinion because a lot of my earlier versions of this deck ran him.

    Metalwork Colossus
    • Can be played for cheap, best case T3
    • Too big for direct damage or commonly used removal to use G1
    • Puts an early threat out that the opponent has to deal with
    • Gives us an early clock that we wouldn't otherwise have

    • Not that consistent to play on T3 either due to opponents stopping our posts (Stony Silence, Ancient Grudge, nature's claim)
    • Can be chumped all day by 1/1s (No inherent trample, hate, etc)
    • Opponents can play around him if they see him in G1
    • Because he's so big he can't be removed easily and thus doesn't give us consistent Restore Balance wipes (example, they have a creature out, we have metalwork, thus without a GG they can just keep their dude, which may or may not be hurting us)
    • Can be stopped all day by Humans with reflector mage
    • Because we run him, we give up slots that could help us in other matchups
    • Because he's an artifact, commonly used SB material (Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, and so forth can stop him for way cheap since he has no inherent protection)
    • If we want to return him, we have to give up our mana base and unless we're super far a head, meaning we're pretty much sealed a win, we put ourselves behind.
    • a vanilla 10/10 doesn't do much to win games when our other 10 mana card we run constantly helps our overall game plan much better and with less drawback and can attack the turn he comes off suspend.

    So what does all this mean, well this is from all my findings running him. Affinity could just keep a full board with him out and with a Arcbound Ravager out just kill me since a Restore Balance meant he could just sac it all to Ravenger or a flyer and kill me on his following turn. Humans could reflector mage him all day so I'd be left with a hand of useless 10/10s, Boggles could quickly voltron over him since by T3 they usually have Spirit Mantle out and equipped, and with how slow the deck is because you have to run a large number of posts to consistently use him early, T3 was often too slow in coming and I'd behind tempo even more, I'd just have a 10/10 gorilla out to show for it.
    I also use to run Lingering Souls as well, which also didn't help me at all either.

    So all in all, while a flashy and super cool concept, it doesn't fit our overall game plan since we're not an aggressive deck seeking to close out the game early, since we rely on setting them back time and time again until they concede. It's the same reason we gave up on March of the machines

    Don't mean to discourge you, if you find consistent wins with him, keep him, but all of this is based on my personal findings from my LGS meta, local friend group, and other reviews online.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Quote from epoa »
    Quote from Doctor Edge »
    What new/versatile tools do we have at out disposal that might help our Phoenix and jeskai match ups? I like v clique as an option for control, but not great against Phoenix. Playing in the scg classic this weekend and definitely feel they are my larger concerns currently.

    Raking Canopy for phoenix. Ricochet Trap and more Beast Within for Jeskai.

    Mmmm, not a fan of any of those cards except Trap. BW gives the opponent a free beater that we have to answer, and Raking Canopy is too limited in scope. But if you're concerned about the grave yard just use Ravenous Trap
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Ya. Thassa is super slow. I replaced her with Monastery Siege. Not only does it loot like Search, but if I need it can be a minor protection tool as well.
    Bow, as you said, can force hard green. But with my deck being with 1 basic forest, and 8 posts that produce G I don't have trouble.
    I'd replace her. Her card advantage isn't good since you will always run that risk of getting a RB off the top, and even then, most of the cards are less impactful.
    Ajani has been a planeswalker that has been talked about, added, removed, re-added, then found to be meh. Have you tried Kiora, the Crashing wave flexible mana cost so you don't have to worry about being locked into G. Gives you card advantage like Chandra does. I found her super useful before I replaced her with Gideon of the Trials since he gave me more staying power than Kiora.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance

    • I like this deck, Focuses on the fact posts, GG, and casting cards are ditched for a more a control shell, I really like Mission Briefing as an option to recasting RB at the cost of losing it, but it gives of 6 RB if we really wanted it.
    • I love Tolaria West, a good RB tutor.
    • Torn on Search tbh. Both sides don't speak to me as much. The first side makes of ditch cards, and the flip side has us reveal. The point of RB is the surprise "does he have it" factor that makes the opponent debate between killing us and reserving themselves as to not get blown out. I'd say try two Bow of Nylea. The bow helps gain life to stabalize, recycles cards (Looking at you Mission Briefing, protects Restore balance from cards like Extirpate, shoots down small fliers (Ornithopers, Freebooters, etc) which free up bolt spaces for Planeswalkers and bigger threats, and gives GG +1/+1 counters to help one shot people better).
    • Chander, still not a fan, even with this version, just because I feel we have better at our walkers. That her +1 cannot cast Restore Balance off the top (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/758664-chandra-torch-of-defiance-and-ancestral-vision)
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Quote from ViciousBadger »
    Exploring the cascadeless versions with Electrodominance seemed pleasant to me as well.

    First I don't really like the greater gargadon win condition. It has often seemed unreliable.
    Also with the new Electrodominance tech you are allowed to be faster and more explosive. For instance, Turn-1 borderpost into turn 2 SpiritGuide + Electrodominance + Restore balance on their draw step is almost unbeatable.

    This is the list I came up with after a few iterations.
    • This is a spell-based version of the "Balance As Foretold" archetype
    • Arclight Phoenix provides a real clock
    • The game plan is almost always to cast a turn 2-4 Restore Balance
    • I tried to add Spoil of the Vaults to improve consistency and fight disruption. Proved to be very effective, despite a 15% chance of free-loss. You only cast this in 'emergency case', often to find Restore Balance, and when you find it, you'll win the game roughly 80% of the time
    • after casting Restore Balance, the opponent should have about 1 land and 1 card in hand. Play patiently, wait for 2 useless cards before playing a 'draw 2, discard 2' effect.
    My thought on this version:
    • This version is powerful. In a decent percentage of games you just lock your opponent before he can play anything substancial
    • Card-filtering helps with consistency
    • Game plan is probably a bit too ambitious: the "balance" between basic lands, borderposts and spells is hard to find
    • Still bad matchup against humans and BGx, okay matchup versus control and spirits, good vs big mana and creature-based decks including Izzet Phoenix (I believe)

    So the problem I have with this verison is few things.
    • Spoils of the Vault seem really bad. We already lose a lot of life due to this deck and this version being passive. That and we have to exile all the cards so we could just lose the game there if we have a poorly stacked deck.
    • Not a big fan of pheonix. I feel we have to burn through our deck if we want to revive him, and even then, Restore balance could just send him away again.
    • Chandra, not particual about this version, I feel she's too slow, and with her +1 exiling spells we could want, as well as she may be just a 4 mana deal 4 is pretty meh, I feel you could cut the Restore balances out and the deck would still play out the same way it does already, control and dig and she'd be just the finisher.
    • You also run only 2 basic lands, which means if you want to run posts you have to fetch for them first thing otherwise they're useless. Running 3 non-basic lands means at most your opponent keeps 3 lands which doesn't slow down Humans, Boggles, Burn, Affinity, and even Green Scales. Since they either run super cheap stuff or produce their own mana via Opals, Mana Dorks ( which is where the Phenoixs can be harmful more than benficial), and so on. Burn still beats both versions with Eidolon of the Great Revel.
    • Not a fan of relying on just As Foretold since it's super slow and people see it coming from far away, I know most of your spells are between 1-2 mana,but you can play it T2 (T1 Island, T2 SSGx2) at earliest, then have to wait 2 more turns to cast stuff for free. That's 4 turns just for free spells once per turn, or T2 if you have RB in hand, and even then you're devoting so much resources to this card which can be easliy stopped.
    • Lastly, I think you should drop the posts. Or lean more into them. This odd split of mana to post ratio carries the deck into odd directions. You have the slow ticking Foretolds so Posts aren't need, yet you run so few actual mana you need posts. You run such an odd amount of posts that their overal consistency is weird.

    That's not to say your deck can't operate, but at face vaule that's what I see. And this is coming from a man who strongly believes that the cascade version is the best and is resistent to change (I'll die on this hill)
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    The thing, while in the past GG was supposed to be the win con, he's more so of an enabler now. He's designed to be a threat. You suspend him and now your opponent has to be wary of a Balance effect since your board can go from hero to zero so quickly and he has to match. If you're trying to win with him it go very far. I've noticed every opponent slow down their playstyle so quickly with a GG out because of this impact he can have, they'll try to match me land for land, won't go too wide, and even will play cards to match.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I've never played the non-post version so if you have a list I can look at I'll help you out.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Quote from epoa »
    Just as there were pros and cons in the early days to running borderposts, there are pros and cons to the difference between Cascade and Cascadeless builds. I’ve been firmly against the Cascadeless build until Electro, where I now believe it is meta and pilot dependent.

    Why not run cascade spells? Because they severely hinder deck construction and limit early interaction. I can run lightning bolt, serum visions, and opt. I can play Search for Azcanta, a card I severely underestimated in my deck during construction and am debating running a third. In my cascade list, if I was against spirits and balance caught an unfortunate Spell Queller, I had to try to resolve another balance just to end up recasting that balance. In my cascadeless list, I’ve bolted a good number of Quellers and got to restore balance anyway. My favorite was attempting to balance at the end of their turn, catching a queller, then topdecking my gargy on my turn and suspending it, then bolt the queller for a full wipe on my opponent.

    Why run cascade? There are cascadeless games where I’ll have one half of the combo, dig ten cards in one turn, and not find the other half. We have redundant ways to cast RB from our hand, but not really any redundant ways to get the RB. Just Tolaria West or eventually digging one out. In the cascade build, all you need is one cascade spell and you can cast it.

    I still don’t know about JtMS. I haven’t tested him, but I just don’t like the kit he offers. I’ve actually been trying Chandra, Torch of Defiance (you know, the walker I’ve been adamantly against), and I’m kinda mixed. She’s better than I expected, but she still feels too clunky with her exile. I’ll keep testing the numbers. I kinda wish we had Dack Fayden in modern.

    Ral is 5 mana. That’s too expensive for my blood in a deck that routinely deletes lands when it reaches 3. Cast it before you balance and the opponent already has lethal, probably. Cast it after you balance and your opponent will have had ample time to recover.

    I do agree with your Ral comment.

    But I feel if you're going to be running Opt, Search, Bolt, and so forth in this deck, you're running just a gimped version of UW control. See Living End. They had Kari Zev's Expertise and still ran only 3+ drops. While I do agree with you on pilot and meta playability, I do think Post + Cascade is the superior version just due to my own experience, my own meta, and the countless lists out there. Is my deck/prefered version the best? ABsolutely not. But I'll die on that hill.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    The problem I have, is that even with Electro, why not just run cascade spells. Electro is an instant much like Violent Outburst, As Foretold is a sorcery speed, like Ardent Plea, and you can even run As Foretold as well. I think it's cute, but it's just as big a liability as any other cheat card we play.

    With Gargadon, I find running 2-3 copies is fine since he's such a dead draw late game and only really good as a sac outlet.

    I never liked JtMS. He's too slow with the meta imo. Boggles, Affinity, Green Scale, Coco, Humans, etc. I found just playing a control-ish style with more focus on board wipes is better.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Not sure how I feel about that list. While we can now run 1-2 mana spells, and some good ones like Opt, we become super reliant on As Foretold, which if we don't draw it we're spending a lot of our game trying to land it.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    True. I could add 2 Vclicks to my SB. Maybe replace the 2 Imprison in the Moon and try it out.

    As far as your question goes for my land base, I find that it doesn't effect me too much, I find that running higher lands over posts gives us the consistency we need for T1 hands. Because you can have all the posts you want, but in the end if you don't have the mana to back it up you're screwed. I also find that posts can be inconsistent, if I need a certain color I find I won't have the post to make it and then the basic land saves me. And I mean, to each their own, in the meta I play at it's scales, control, humans, and so forth so I keep my posts small to get around all their hate.

    I do run 2 Blood Moon SB which I bring I bring in G2/G3.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I keep high land count due to my friend that plays Humans will call border posts after playing a Kitesail Freebooter. So they're nice to have.
    Reason I lose a lot to control is that they wise up and just go for countering my Restore Balances. It's why I run 4 Wills to try and combat that. Control also has amazing match ups due to their Op, Serum visions, and all around library manipulation. So I'm often out classed. I do occasionally if I can beat them early or out counter them.

    How does Vclick help in the match up?
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    This is my current build. Had success against Boggles, Affinity, Ponza, 25/75 Humans, 35/65 Control.

    Any questions ask! I'll be happy to answer any card choices, mulligan options, etc
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Fun fact, Krark-Clan Ironworks was banned recently. So our matchup is even better.
    And I've never had a problem with Ponza since our "lands" aka our posts aren't affected by most of their G1 land hates and we can keep their board constantly clean.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    The thing is, 4 drops are sorta slow, and we can "cheat" out 3 drops with a SSG. And in my research, I've found that if we want higher costed cards we sacrifice their adaptability. In my deck at least since we're so limited in card costs, every card we add has to do more than 1 thing since we can't add cards. Supreme Will is one of those adaptable cards. It's a counter when I want it, or a search card if I need. Yes, we could add scry cards, but those are often 1 drop like Serum Visions, we can't run.

    I'm sure there are probably better options, but that's kinda my reasoning behind running Supreme Will.
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