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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Honestly, I don't think Wrenn and Six will be a big issue.

    I think you've said pretty much everything I was going to say with that deck, so I have nothing to add.

    Yes, Wrenn and Six help them rebuild their lands, but again. With our deck being able to run so many recover/cast from graveyard effects it becomes a war of attrition. We can let them rebuild all they want, we'll just keep wiping them. And it only works in RG variants. So Esper control decks really don't change against us, and aggro decks probably wont run Wrenn + Six. I can see Jund running it, but that will be determined.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Are you able to give me a run down of how this deck functions? Or at least in theory?

    From what I gather is it just Light Prision/TurboGarg?
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    We do well against Amulet Titan because they're land strat, we may be able to reduce a lot of our control elements in our decks to focus more on the aggro decks. I think if we really want a better land, we can also do Gemstone Mine its what Ad Naseum and Living End use to play back in their heyday. Its a quick mana fixer that sac's itself solving our land problem. Don't think Post decks can run it, but ED may

    As for Jund/Liliana time will have to tell what their decks will be. If they focus on Value more we may have a chance, but if they go more controll-y/ heavy on the discard we will always lose
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I thik with the recently announced Modern bans, we can finally have some more breathing room. How do you guys thinks we'll fair now.

    That said, one reason I don't buy into the ED version is their lack of a secondary win con. With the cascade version, we have Nahiri + Emrakrul to win out, and Nahiri herself helps deal with a lot of pesky artifacts, enchantments, or creatures. Then I just flexed two spots out for Gideon as a 3d win con to just "get there" in a beat down style.

    I think jamming in more planeswalkers and lessing the reliance on counters, digs, and loot spells, may help us win these maatchups. Planeswalkers can help in any situation, such as regular Jace, Nahiri (as mentioned). Kiora, the Crashing Wave and so on. I did play Kiora for a long time, but switched to Gideon for a more faster answer in the late game and a bit more aggresion overall
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    My issue is that I couldn't justify $40(?) per leyline, they were only good in the opening hand in my opinion, and then became a slower draw all game. That's if I saw them at all, because in G2 why would I mull a good hand just at a change to have a leyline in opening hand. Discard wasn't really a problem with me, most people don't know what to get rid of in my hand usually and I run the poor man Monastery Siege as well.

    I wouldn't be too concerned with adding Opal. It isn't the strongest card we can use, and we don't need that imediate fixing. I feel you're driftting away from the core of the deck, while I don't mind that, it will dilute the overall deck scheme throwing in cards just to support one card.

    What would you be pitching Force too? I feel Remand is better than it, without losing out on tempo. Oko seems fine, he's a strong card like you said, Teferi I think is a bit too expensive in modern, and he'll get wiped away with our balances or leave us in a spot where he'll either chump block or leave up and we eat damage.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    What you have to understand, and I'm sure you already know. But a lot of people don't MB artifact hate G1. G2, at least for me, I play mainly my lands and go for a slower route. Usually my opponents go all-in on hate and they slow down a little too waiting for me to play my posts only to be met with lands and foretolds.

    My issue is that black is still around and with it come INquistions, thoughtsiezes, lilys and so on. Lots of hand distrubtion making the ED version a bit more fragile.


    But as you said, the list I commented on has the same issues.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Do you ever find yourself overburden with too many lands/posts when you draw/mulligan? That is one thing I've been mulling over after reading your opinion and looking over your list.

    That said, I tried the old March of the Machines combo, but found it too fragile. So a +2/+2 buff may help them survive longer and for later. But the problem I ran into, was they're still artifacts and being hit with grudge, decay, or reverly really hurts.


    If you keep the posts, then like I said your chosen planeswalkers feel like a good fit.

    I feel like adding a Blood Moon in replace of your Alpine just strenghten your overall matches against every deck out there. remember, ED only needs 2 RR to go off, so you can easily beat a T3 Tron on T2. And then T3 play moon and lock them out after that, instead of gambling you can get around it with a slower balance and a quicker moon.

    And if you remove your custom setup package, I would just fit more dig/counter spells in the main board. You don't have a very strong way of getting/finding a Balance to your hand and it looks like you just pray you hit them asap. Something like Opt is really good, your remand is solid, maybe Izzet Charm and/or Serum Visions to help accerlate this game plan. You can even run the tried and true card of Simian Spirit Guide which makes these nut hands way more pheasible and more common.

    Sideboard, sadly is all you, based on your meta. I run


    This is to battle the aggro decks that swarm my meta, Tron, Boggles, Humans, Harden Scales Affinity and Dredge. I don't look to win against any control deck and their varients because they can just win by holding all their counterspells every turn. But I would reccommend a few cards off this list. Mainly Anger of the Gods still a very strong and cheap card against almost any aggro deck making you less reliant on popping off a Balance T1-T3. Wear // Tear, to help get rid of early Stony Silence, Aether Vial, or Ethereal Armor that hit early. Based on your current list, if the opponent hits you with an early anti-artifact spell you rely on your mana base making for future balances very very tricky. And then maybe someway to get rid of a graveyard, Ravenous Trap really helps because Dredge just pours it on and its super easy to cast for 0.

    That said, this is all for my cascade version. There are better cards than what I run simple because of mana cost.

    I like your current cascade package, that seems solid. Smile
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Quote from vikingtrader »
    What do you guys think of this list?



    I'm not sure 12 posts is the right number. Honestly I feel like 8-9 is best so artifact hate isn't a complete blowout. Also, 12 posts and 19 lands seems a bit much. Been so long though I forgot how many lands I need. I wanted to keep the artifact count somewhat high since they remove our lands, work with Tezz, and generally play well for the deck.

    I have Remand in there for card draw and stall. The planeswalker package I carefully considered for a few reasons.

    Karn - he's good against BUG artifacts/affinity/etc, also if you are able to tutor a Liquimetal Coating after a Balance it will ensure the opponent will never get to have more than 1 land, being able to tutor for a Pithing Needle, Bridge, or Cage helps specific matchups
    Oko - the creature interactions, and Food tokens can be lifegain for matchups where a few life points is the difference between a win and a loss.
    Tezzeret - ultimate is lifegain, also turns posts into blockers or potential beaters, typically it's a 'must counter' kind of card too
    Ajani - lifegain, locks down permanents, removes Elk creatures from Oko if they're both out and ultimate helps make sure they don't rebuild after a Balance

    I considered a great deal more walkers but had to keep the objective in mind. Balance away the board, then dominate with walkers. I feel like many opponents are going to concede if you Balance the board clean and then play a walker the next turn. If you have 2 walkers out after a Balance I feel like 90% of opponents are going to concede once the second one drops. Part of my thought process was thinking about how difficult it would be for an opponent after having any 2 of them on the board at once.


    So I'm a bit confused, are you going for a ED deck or a cascade deck. Because the posts aren't needed in the ED version and will slow you down immensely. I would say ditch the posts and add more dig/scry/reaction cards tbh. With only 4 remand, your ability to really interact with the opponent is awful, sure you can restore balance up to 6 times, but I don't think its needed that much. Walkers seem fine, again without the posts Tezzert becomes absolutely useless imo and along the same vein with Karn as well. You could run those two if you focused more on the post strat, but my issue is posts are so fragile anyways, and being 5/5s or 4/4s without any inherent protection, trample, or combat ability you're one board wipe away from losing. Even if they have Stoney silence, their own Karn out you're doomed to play them.

    That said, I would replace Alpine Moon with Blood Moon for a straight upgrade
    remove liquid metal coating, and remove ensaring bridge.



    I would focus on one version or the other, I can help you once you figure out what exactly you want from this deck.

    PS, sorry for being so harsh Frown
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I think it depends on what the overall stragy is. I've never had an issue where I ran out of cards. Unless your opponent forces you to discard, I can't see it. Frown
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I think its cute, but Control players already have a lot of ways to refill their hands. And most decks would love to have a free 7 draw.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Humans in my play group was always the bane. Meddling mage T2 calling Balance usually locked me out depending if I had Detention Sphere out.

    I think the big problem keep having, is that they want Balance to have good-great matchups against any deck. You can do that, but at the cost of a coherent goal. I've tuned my deck to fight Aggro primarily, with some minor resistance against control. My best matchups were Boggles, Tron, Affinity, and the occasional humans barring I could draw well.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    No attack taken my friend, this is what this forum is here for. Polite converstation. Smile

    That said, I agree with your analysis of win vs win-more for card situations. Like Vikingtrader, I've played a majority of this deck as my post/cascade version with limited/no play time to the ED varients.

    I've found, that Jund, Tron, and Control ( I haven't faced Oko yet) that it requires just proper planning. There are windows of opportunity to go off on them, but the big issue is not that they're quicker, its that they can rebuild in an instant. Doesn't matter how much we balance, they can always rebuild. I do think that our biggest issue isn't that we can't race them, its possible with or without the nut hand. But our biggest issue is the midrange/value decks. Control doesn't care if we wipe their hand, board, or lands. But if they can land Oko, Jace, someone then their plan is secured. I've lost many a game to decks simple because I can't outvalue them. Restore Balance isn't the powerhouse it use to be. Wizards as made new card types, stronger abilites, an stickier cards. Back when Balance first came out, there wasn't anything known as planeswalkers.

    If we keep trying to evolve Restore Balance, I feel that is our hinderance. We can't out control a pure control deck, we can't really outpace aggro, and we really can't out value our opponent. Not saying we haven't done work on finding a new shell for the deck to take on, but we turn into a control shell trying to peek Restore Balance out there when we may be better off with a new route. I've noticed a lot of lists are adding the rest of the suspend cards, even the new ones. Anstral Visions, Footfalls, sometimes even Wheel.

    I'm not sure what direction we could take the deck, that's one of the beauties of it, that that there isn't some sort of end all be all list like other decks. We're close to one though. Just a matter of time.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    So I'm toying with the idea of the new card Ashiok's Erasure. I use to toy around with Nevermore in my older lists, but ulitmately dropped it because a T3 negate card is/was slightly slow. But for 1 more U you gain Flash and an exile ability to boot. Sure I couldn't stop the person fromn resolving their counter spell, but I can guareent you won't get another one off, and its a surprise factor off of As Foretold.

    Any ideas? This would be problably only be a good fit for the cascade version since ED would/will have counter spells or other viable responses.
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Good catch, I thought my ordering was a little off, looks like just one step was reversed!

    So it depends on what you want to do. With the cascade version you don't need as my search/draw cards since your combo is effective either in your hand or deck, whereas ED is more reliant on hand.

    If you're looking to cram in as many bases as possible, I'd say you should try the ED version. Its far more flexible, but requires a bit more expertise to use since the core of the deck shifts slightly more towards a control-ly combo deck more than a combo deck.

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  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    Quote from vikingtrader »
    So I was just looking at the top metagame decks of Modern as of right now (1/1/20) and I wanted to point out some of the advantages that some of the other top decks have over us right now that need to be acknowledged. No matter which version you play, I think we need to discuss answers to some of these cards/decks.

    First we have Eldrazi Tron showing up 8.29% of the time. They're packing 4x Chalice of the Void, 4x Karn, the Great Creator, 4x Thought-knot Seer, and 2x Warping Wail. Ouch; before sideboard even. Imprisoned in the Moon is a decent answer to this deck but honestly I'm not sure if it's enough. I'm thinking countermagic might be a good option here. If we can't Balance away their lands we need a good backup plan imo.

    Second, BUG artifacts showing up 6.79%. They run 3x Spell Queller, 4x Oko, Thief of Crowns, 3x Metallic Rebuke, 3x Cryptic Command, and 3x Engineered Explosives. They're also running Mox Opal and Gilded Goose to give them a bit more speed. If that isn't bad enough they're also running 4x Damping Sphere in the side. Again, I think countermagic could be a solid option here.

    Third, Bant Snow Control showing up 4.08%. This one isn't quite as bad with 3x Spell Queller, 3x Oko, Thief of Crowns, 3x Teferi, Time Raveler, 2x Force of Negation, and 2x Mystical Dispute. They also have 3x Damping Sphere in the side. The big one here is Teferi. With him on the field we won't ever get to Balance. They can also protect it with Dispute.

    These 3 top decks represent about 20% of the competitive meta. Some of the other decks showing up are 4 color Death's Shadow, Amulet Titan, Infect, Burn, Dredge, Humans, and Jund. Each of them has little advantages against us except for Amulet Titan.

    My thoughts are having a basic Balance shell while being able to include really good cards, which will make us a bit more competitive if the Balance plan gets hated on. I think planeswalkers are a solid option as they provide a lot of value post-Balance and most of them are decent wincons on their own. A careful selection of the right colors and abilities should be discussed. We want walkers that provide extreme value in keeping our board state in control, and also act as wincons.

    I also think there needs to be at least 8 slots dedicated to some form of critter control. I like Path to Exile, Dismember, and Lightning Bolt here. If cascade version, Dismember is good as is Rift Bolt and the aforementioned Imprisoned in the Moon.

    For countermagic, I think around 7-8 spots sounds ideal. We want to be able to keep key threats off the board. We are able to run the same package of either Mystical Dispute or Metallic Rebuke. I also like Remand as it replaces itself. Cryptic Command seems legit but at 4 CMC and UUU to boot I think it should be left out myself.

    The more I look at what's going on in the meta, I think a borderpost version that runs As Foretold and Electrodominance is going to be the best option. It gives it upsides of being able to play posts (keep land count low without garg) and also contributes to Mox Opal. In addition, that would give us more opportunity to experiment with cheap spells that do a lot of work like Lightning Bolt, Thoughtseize, Path to Exile, countermagic, etc.

    What do you guys think? How do we handle some of the nasty cards in the meta like Chalice, Karn, Teferi, Spell Queller etc?

    Myself I want a good amount of interaction, the balance shell, and a fair amount of threats to keep up. The problem is our deck only has so much room to work with!


    My only issue is it seems you're trying too much to cover all your bases. A lot of this can be put into the SB, or choose which decks in your local game store are the most popular and plan for this. The more you try to fit in the more muddle and all over the place the deck will be. Focus on the core of the deck and plan outward from there.

    To answer your question on how to deal with Chalice, Karn, Teferi, Queller. You've already answered those questions. Counter spells, Imprision, Rift Bolt, etc. But again, focus on what cards crop up the most. I wouldn't focus on beating POD if Eldrazi Tron was the most popular deck in my area. I would beat themn by doubling down on Restore Balance to keep them off tron, pack counter spells for their few counters, and play aggresive. If POD was most popular, I would work a more slow controlled game focused more on Imprisons and working to get 1 balance off more than 4 as opposed to Tron.
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