I personally don't like the idea of playing Leyline maindeck... I'm not gonna say that I've never consider it, but there are many times when you have to play a "naked" Ad Nauseam and revealing a Leyline is just terrible.
On the other hand, I kinda like this proposition about playing 1-2 Solemnity maindeck (taking out 2 Prisms). Pre-sideboard, there are not so many decks able to get rid of this soft-lock, or at least that's my impression. In fact, yesterday was posted a 5-0 in Goldfish a list that ran 1 Solemnity MD and the split with 2 Spoils / 1 Teachings
What do you think, guys? I know many of you won't like it, but this is just out of curiosity.
And congratulations again to all our PPTQ winners! Let's keep the combo up!
Hey guys, I somehow managed to win our Rivals of Ixalan PPTQ with Ad Nauseam today. There seems to be some gloom on the position of the deck in the current meta, but drawing well and dodging our worst matchup still seems to work like it did a year ago. If anyone is interested I can post a short writedown, although I will probably not go into much detail as I did not take any notes and was rather tired.
Congratulations man!
Could you post the pairings you faced and your list?
I would like to know which sideboard configuration you chose
I've shared a video in the Facebook group for AdN players containing an insane game against Jund that I've recently played in MTGO.
I don't know if everybody here watched it yet, so just enjoy it!
Few side notes before - my record to this point was 2-2 on the league, and this was the game 3 of the last match (I won the first game and lost the second one).
@spkilla: IMO the best Sigarda is Host of Herons, the other one still dies to Terminate (although your opponents will probably side out all of their removal). Once you stick SHoH to the board it only dies to Wrath effects or combat damage. I wouldn't run one over the other, I see potential in Heron's Grace, and I will only play them but together.
I don't like Silumgar neither, despite the fact that that it provides you with a body (flying and deathtouch is also relevant) it still dies to removal or bounce/sacrifice effects. I think that if you want to run a Dragonlord the best option is to play Dromoka On Dreadbore topic, Anguished Unmaking is just better, we want our answers (when we need them) at instant speed to play them EOT and to be able to hit every kind of threat, not only PW or creatures (and at Sorcery speed).
Shadow is a terrible MU, almost like when infect was still a thing. But Godhead is very good against them. They tend to side out removal in favor of K-command, which is nuts against us if we don't start with a Leyline.
To be honest, I think both versions are fairly well positioned in this meta. From my perspective and playtesting the Wish version is just one small step ahead because you can fight the bad MUs better.
Lately I've been playing the Spoils version with two Grave Titans on SB and I'm kinda liking it, but I still miss my "wisheables" Sigarda and Dromoka.
I would have add an Izzet Staticaster but don't know what to remove.
Concerning Death Shadow M-U, it's really bad and the only way to win is to play Godhead, when he is slow. Fortunately, I didn't face any of them during the GP. Yep, you read it well. Not a single one.
Details round by round and funny interaction coming!
So you are in the fetchland train I also noticed that you are playing a basic Forest, I don't know how important it is, but I would play an Island over it and probably Polluted or Flooded over Windswept. But if it worked for you then I believe that your build may be right as well.
Just a small correction, you will die during cleanup to state based action if you ad nauseam'd and only cast angels grace (assuming drawing your library put you negative).
You are right, you can only do this if you combo via phyrexian unlife, my bad. Thanks for pointing it out!
I`m new. Anything I should know about executing the regular Lab Man kill? I`ve gotten all my wins with Lightning Storm so far, so I don`t seem to get practice with Lab Man. What`s the sequencing like? Any pitfalls I should know? Should I usually wait until I can cantrip into a win the same turn, or am I better off letting him sit around for a turn cycle and rely on Pact to protect him?
Thanks a lot in advance.
There are many good tips in the Primer (first post), including the labman kill. But just an overview, you can either combo out during your turn and do everything at sorcery speed (if you have enough mana) or you can play AG+AdN on opponent's EOT and leaving one card on your library, getting the turn and doing he whole sequence (if you don't have the mana available on your previous turn).
Just remember few things, that you have a mana drop in your turn and about the mana amount and color requirements: 2U+U.
For futher explanation check the primer, but remember that you can play with Pentad Prisms and SSG to get the U!
@9tailz: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was running this list in a Team Constructed event, which means that they can't play more than 4 copies of the same card all together. I'm not familiar with SCG event rules and naming since I'm in Europe and here we don't have that many SCG premium events, but the list seems to be "optimised" for this kind of situations. My only questions is if there is any other deck running 4 Pentad Prism maindeck...
Other than that, I don't like the list at all neither the sideboard Mentor plan.
I wish there was a different forum for those running the glittering wish version
same
No offense, but why?
It does not mean that we don't play/haven't played the Esper version as well. I think it is just a different focus
Anyway, if there is room for discussion about fetches/fetchless and Spoils/Peer-Teachings why not Wish here?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I know the Wish version is far from competitive at the moment, but I strongly believe that it is powerful enough to reach the same "competitive" level as the "stock" one (since there is no "real stock" and we are still a Tier2-3 deck).
Nevertheless, in a mirror match there is nothing the regular version can do against the Wish one, yet the answers this build provides...
Just saying, but if the mods decide to move this discussion to a different new thread I would understand it I think I get your point but I disagree with the proposition.
RG TitanShift: 2-0
WB Aristocrat Combo: 2-0
UR Kiln Fiend: 2-1 (he had T3 kill in game 2)
Eldrazi Tron: 2-0 (he made a HUGE mistake in game 2, I had T3 kill and he chose the wrong card to take with a Thought-Knot Seer)
Ad Nauseam (Spoils Version): 2-0 (He was "Slaughter Game'd" twice and followed by Dromoka. In second game I played a Leyline in T4 and Slaughter Games in T5 choosing Laboratory Maniac into GG)
I might just being lucky in last FNMs and competitive events I've played, but this version of the deck looks pretty strong to me.
After checking PwP, this is my record overall from the past one and a half month: 20-5-1 (W-L-D)
I don't have much time to play lately, and that's why I'm playing only this version, but I will keep you posted if I have the chance to test it extensively! I'm closer and closer to start playing MOL
About Peer/Teaching discussion, I've always preferred this configuration over the Spoils one, but this decision has to come from your personal testing and game style (despite of we are playing a linear combo deck). And the same goes about the manabase, I prefer a fetchless manabase for both Esper and Wish version, but again, this only comes from my testing and way of playing the deck.
Just to finish, I will repeat myself: give this version a try!
You'll not regret!
@epdt: congrats, dude! those are very good results overall I didn't do the math, but it seems to be a good winrate%.
As you said, it also looks like you are having bad times against Shadow.decks (no matter which build), and this is the most played deck nowadays. I believe we can find a silver bullet for this matchups. Starting from Leylines, which I assume you side in against this kind of decks, there must be something Wisheable that beats them efficiently. Godhead of Awe seems to be an answer, why do you say it is not easy to cast? Willing to try my manabase?
Keep us updated! I won't be able to play for a while since I'll be on a travel, but I will share my impressions and results with the deck as soon as I will be back.
Special mentions to cards that can fit two roles at the same time (Hide//Seek was great when Nahiri Jeskai was a thing : you could just take Emrakul with Seek, and use Hide as artifact/enchantment hate). I'm using Jund Charm for the same reasons (Sweeper + Graveyard hate), and Dromoka (Beater + Countermagic).
Note that I've tried 2 Thoughtseize and I think it's a great idea. One of the main weakness of Wish compared with Esper is against decks that try to win on T3 (especially Storm right now, but also Grishoalbrand), where a random TS in the first 2 turns can put them off balance long enough to start wishing for hate without losing on the spot. It turned out doing an outstanding job. It's also a great card to have at your disposal against Control & Slower Combo (Tron, Valakut...). You don't have to pick multicolor cards only There is also an argument for 4th Unlife in the board, 0-2 Ethereal Haze (less crucial now that infect is dead), 0-1 Collective Brutality (pseudo Thoughtseize + pseudo removal)...
I'm really trying to like your manabase, but you are running 8x U cantrips and 5x lands that doesn't produce U for you in the first turn...
It is crucial to have U available in the first turn, and I see your version having troubles with that (correct me if I'm wrong); and the same goes for a turn two Wish WG
Sequencing the right lands in a correct way is one of the most important parts of our gameplay
You truly spotted the Thoughtseize role in our SB, I'm thinking about playing 3x sometimes, but 2x is a good number.
About Jund Charm, I never thought about it, I will give it a try.
Let's see where this version of the deck takes us!
Your gameplan against Tron is not to find an alternative wincon but to combo out before they slam a Karn or whatever are they playing.
Except for the Mono-U version you should not have a problem with it, this is one of the most non-interactive pairs you can have.
Trying to attack their manabase is the wrong approach.
And dude, you are having the worst luck ever... Jesperwhat? That's totally random, you can't be prepared for everything...
Coming back to the topic about Leylines, it all depends on your build. I'm usually siding out Pacts, 1 cantrip and sometimes manarocks, but like I said, don't treat this as a rule.
On the other hand, I kinda like this proposition about playing 1-2 Solemnity maindeck (taking out 2 Prisms). Pre-sideboard, there are not so many decks able to get rid of this soft-lock, or at least that's my impression. In fact, yesterday was posted a 5-0 in Goldfish a list that ran 1 Solemnity MD and the split with 2 Spoils / 1 Teachings
What do you think, guys? I know many of you won't like it, but this is just out of curiosity.
And congratulations again to all our PPTQ winners! Let's keep the combo up!
Congratulations man!
Could you post the pairings you faced and your list?
I would like to know which sideboard configuration you chose
Sure thing!
It is now uploaded also to Twitch
Enjoy!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/159317315
I've shared a video in the Facebook group for AdN players containing an insane game against Jund that I've recently played in MTGO.
I don't know if everybody here watched it yet, so just enjoy it!
Few side notes before - my record to this point was 2-2 on the league, and this was the game 3 of the last match (I won the first game and lost the second one).
https://www.facebook.com/PabloAput/videos/10212198073923756/
-Yes, I mulliganed to 6 and left an Ad Nauseam on the top while being on the play.
-Yes, he Thoughtseize' a Spoils of the Vault on his first turn.
-Yes, he Collective Brutality' an Ad Nauseam and then "Surgical Extractioned" them...
-I thought that keeping the Darkslick Shores in hand would keep my Angel's Graces safe in hand from Liliana of the Veil's +1
-I believe he was on the aggro mode and that's why he never sacrificed his Fulminator Mage to destroy any of my lands.
-Finally, the card name with Spoils of the Vault was Abrupt Decay (it is easy to find in the pop-up window
I don't like Silumgar neither, despite the fact that that it provides you with a body (flying and deathtouch is also relevant) it still dies to removal or bounce/sacrifice effects. I think that if you want to run a Dragonlord the best option is to play Dromoka
Shadow is a terrible MU, almost like when infect was still a thing. But Godhead is very good against them. They tend to side out removal in favor of K-command, which is nuts against us if we don't start with a Leyline.
To be honest, I think both versions are fairly well positioned in this meta. From my perspective and playtesting the Wish version is just one small step ahead because you can fight the bad MUs better.
Lately I've been playing the Spoils version with two Grave Titans on SB and I'm kinda liking it, but I still miss my "wisheables" Sigarda and Dromoka.
So you are in the fetchland train
Keep us posted!
Congratulations!
Well, I'm eager to see your manabase configuration and also your sideboard choices for this open meta we have now in Modern (despite of Shadow.decks)
I hope you'll find some time soon for your report!
Cheers!
You are right, you can only do this if you combo via phyrexian unlife, my bad. Thanks for pointing it out!
There are many good tips in the Primer (first post), including the labman kill. But just an overview, you can either combo out during your turn and do everything at sorcery speed (if you have enough mana) or you can play AG+AdN on opponent's EOT and leaving one card on your library, getting the turn and doing he whole sequence (if you don't have the mana available on your previous turn).
Just remember few things, that you have a mana drop in your turn and about the mana amount and color requirements: 2U+U.
For futher explanation check the primer, but remember that you can play with Pentad Prisms and SSG to get the U!
Other than that, I don't like the list at all neither the sideboard Mentor plan.
No offense, but why?
It does not mean that we don't play/haven't played the Esper version as well. I think it is just a different focus
Anyway, if there is room for discussion about fetches/fetchless and Spoils/Peer-Teachings why not Wish here?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I know the Wish version is far from competitive at the moment, but I strongly believe that it is powerful enough to reach the same "competitive" level as the "stock" one (since there is no "real stock" and we are still a Tier2-3 deck).
Nevertheless, in a mirror match there is nothing the regular version can do against the Wish one, yet the answers this build provides...
Just saying, but if the mods decide to move this discussion to a different new thread I would understand it
Keep it up!
4x Botanical Sanctum
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Temple of Enlightenment
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Artifact (8)
4x Lotus Bloom
4x Pentad Prism
Instant (13)
4x Ad Nauseam
4x Angel's Grace
1x Lightning Storm
1x Peer Through Depths
1x Mystical Teachings
2x Pact of Negation
4x Serum Visions
4x Glittering Wish
1x Bring to Light
Enchantment (4)
4x Phyrexian Unlife
Creature (5)
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Laboratory Maniac
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Golgari Charm
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Bring to Light
1x Firespout
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Vexing Shusher
1x Wargate
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
These were the matchups:
RG TitanShift: 2-0
WB Aristocrat Combo: 2-0
UR Kiln Fiend: 2-1 (he had T3 kill in game 2)
Eldrazi Tron: 2-0 (he made a HUGE mistake in game 2, I had T3 kill and he chose the wrong card to take with a Thought-Knot Seer)
Ad Nauseam (Spoils Version): 2-0 (He was "Slaughter Game'd" twice and followed by Dromoka. In second game I played a Leyline in T4 and Slaughter Games in T5 choosing Laboratory Maniac into GG)
I might just being lucky in last FNMs and competitive events I've played, but this version of the deck looks pretty strong to me.
After checking PwP, this is my record overall from the past one and a half month: 20-5-1 (W-L-D)
I don't have much time to play lately, and that's why I'm playing only this version, but I will keep you posted if I have the chance to test it extensively! I'm closer and closer to start playing MOL
About Peer/Teaching discussion, I've always preferred this configuration over the Spoils one, but this decision has to come from your personal testing and game style (despite of we are playing a linear combo deck). And the same goes about the manabase, I prefer a fetchless manabase for both Esper and Wish version, but again, this only comes from my testing and way of playing the deck.
Just to finish, I will repeat myself: give this version a try!
You'll not regret!
Cheers!
As you said, it also looks like you are having bad times against Shadow.decks (no matter which build), and this is the most played deck nowadays. I believe we can find a silver bullet for this matchups. Starting from Leylines, which I assume you side in against this kind of decks, there must be something Wisheable that beats them efficiently. Godhead of Awe seems to be an answer, why do you say it is not easy to cast? Willing to try my manabase?
Keep us updated! I won't be able to play for a while since I'll be on a travel, but I will share my impressions and results with the deck as soon as I will be back.
I'm really trying to like your manabase, but you are running 8x U cantrips and 5x lands that doesn't produce U for you in the first turn...
It is crucial to have U available in the first turn, and I see your version having troubles with that (correct me if I'm wrong); and the same goes for a turn two Wish WG
Sequencing the right lands in a correct way is one of the most important parts of our gameplay
You truly spotted the Thoughtseize role in our SB, I'm thinking about playing 3x sometimes, but 2x is a good number.
About Jund Charm, I never thought about it, I will give it a try.
Let's see where this version of the deck takes us!
Except for the Mono-U version you should not have a problem with it, this is one of the most non-interactive pairs you can have.
Trying to attack their manabase is the wrong approach.
And dude, you are having the worst luck ever... Jesperwhat? That's totally random, you can't be prepared for everything...
Coming back to the topic about Leylines, it all depends on your build. I'm usually siding out Pacts, 1 cantrip and sometimes manarocks, but like I said, don't treat this as a rule.
Keep playing!