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    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from cryogen »

    Can't be a staple if not everyone is running it. Teach


    Haha, this hard hitting analysis is why I come here!

    Really though, people didn't leave the format in droves when things like PoK, Primetime, SPrime were legal though they were totally format warping, so I'm not sure that's a good lens to look through.

    Also, I think we need to approach this discussion considering that Library is currently banned, and the RC needs actual reasons for it to come off.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
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    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Buffsam89 »


    1) No, I really don’t think it matters. It’ll only matter when it overperforms, and that won’t be all of the time. Even then, did it Warp the game? I’m going to say no.
    2)Being a staple implies that your deck isn’t as good as it could be without it. It’s the essence of this debate, but, you aren’t going to convince the majority of the EDH playerbase that this is truly the case. Again, this will only be the case when it overpreforms, which will be a seldom occurance in the vast majority of groups.
    3) See #2.
    4) I’m going to call BS right here, as politely as I can. It fills a niche role, incredibly well, but still niche. Let’s just say if I’m sitting at a table with you, I won’t feel pressured or threatened if that’s your tutor target. It’s easier for your opponents to make that a bad play than it is for you to make it a good play.
    5)Well, you did compare it to unconditional draw, which is just as “bad” of an argument.
    6)Again, your definition of “staple” is incredibly different than mine.

    I’d like to see it for the reason I stated before. Powerful, not game breaking, I’ve seen worse type of deal.


    1. I merely stated that it would be the best land in EDH, do you disagree?
    2. Right now Library would make the cut in 22/22 of my decks and those lists are tiiiiiiiight. There are decks it doesn't go in, but those are niche. The card has no drawbacks and at it's best draws you an extra card a turn.
    3. Being obtainable matters because it goes in so many decks.
    4. You're not pressured by me drawing an extra card every turn? Poor threat assessment.
    5. I wasn't comparing them in a vacuum. If I am playing Library, it will likely outperform both arena/staff in most games in terms of raw card draw since I'm able to throw it out early at no cost. I can play library turn 1 with no extra work, can't do that with the others.
    6. I'll agree to disagree with you here. I think you have to be creative to NOT include Library, similarly to Sol Ring.

    I agree that it is not game breaking. I am looking at it from the standpoint of availability/price/staple.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Library, if unbanned:

    1. Becomes arguably the best land in EDH.
    2. All decks can run it, most decks should.
    3. Is currently at over a thousand dollars, if unbanned this will skyrocket from there.
    4. Will be tutored for over other lands 90% of the time when applicable (Crop Rotation, Knight of the Reliquary, etc.)
    5. Extremely high power level: in function it competes with cards like Phyrexian Arena, Staff of Nin which are 3 and 6 CMC spells respectively.
    6. It is already unobtainable to most EDH players because of rarity and cost. Unbanning will make the card more unobtainable and expensive.

    These things considered, I ask what incentive does the RC have to unban this?

    I think it would be a lot more likely were it highly available like Sol Ring, but as it stands it seems iffy that the RC would put this back into the environment all things considered.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Impossible »
    Whatever the RC's intentions, they will have to reckon with the fact that sooner rather than later a lot of potential EDH players are going to be priced out of the format.


    You can build good decks and have fun without playing Reserved List cards.


    But yeah, the secondary market for RL right now sucks, and will continue to suck.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • 1

    posted a message on Let's Brew : Tatyova, Benthic Druid
    I'm trying to use her as a land denial strategy with stuff like Overburden, Mana Vortex, Mana Breach, Sunder + Manabond. Just threw it together last night and have some playtesting to do.

    The value she provides is pretty extreme though. She's received some attention, but I think she's flying way under the radar right now. Even at 5 mana she seems a bit broken to me. I probably won't keep my build for very long as I hate UG goodstuff, but I wanted to try the denial strat and see how it performed.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Official]] Reserved List Discussion
    If we could easily synthesize gold do you think we would?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • 2

    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist


    Actually I provided 12 links of a Serra Ascendant complain. Which Papa_Funk reply it was meaningless because they were not enough data. But in fact, I bringed data, while he didn't bringed literally nothing except "look at the Internet, you'll see people complain.". The same Internet which gives me billions on threads complaining of Sol Ring by the way.

    There are examples in this forum of people "complaining" about every single card on the ban list. A vocal minority being vocal is not the quantitative evidence that you're treating it as.

    So, I will ask, it's a card complained by the players worth or not worth of banning? Because if "lot of people whine all the time" a ban criteria, then Sol Ring should be banned. It always bring huge controversy in threads and it's used and abused in every single EDH list that abuse of fast mana for degenerate unfun games. If the "Lof of people whine all the time" is is not a ban criteria, we should ignore as well in that case all the people complaining Prime Time and Primordial because those cards, in a vacuum, can be played in a perfectly fair way...like a Sol Ring I guess.


    I've never seen an Acquire grab a Sol Ring and (when legal) you almost never saw a Bribery grab anything other than a Primeval Titan or Sylvan Primordial. Those two cards were more centralizing and format warping than anything I have seen since and it is not close. This is apples/oranges. You had to build decks with these cards in mind whether you were playing them or planning on playing against them.

    Were the same true for Sol Ring, we'd see a whole lot more Mental Missteps and 1 CMC artifact removal other than Nature's Claim.


    And, please, don't tell me, that "warp the game" is a problem. It's more problem a Teferi that abuses of Stasis to lock everyone's games and still the card is legal. I think it's pretty much absurd that cards that serve no purpose to freeze the game and bring to frustrating board states are legal, while cards that promote interactive games or at least don't prevent people to play their games, should get the banhammer.

    And don't tell me either the argument that "if somebody is playing Stasis (or any similar card) is because it want purposelly to ruin the game"; because it's an argument that makes zero sense. Of course it's a card that brings willfully only to unfun board states, if ignoring purposelly unfun cards was enough, there would be no need to ban cards like Limited Resources, Worldfire, Sway of the Stars, Upheavel, Erayo, Braids and similar.


    You are now just complaining about cards you don't like. That Stasis doesn't conform to your pre-conceived notion of 'fun' doesn't make it ban-worthy.


    There are years of archives of why Protean Hulk, Metalworker, Staff of Domination, Kokusho or Worldgorger Dragon were banned and guess what? Today they are all unbanned despite all the reasons they were banned in the first place. Your point is meaningless. Cards in this format are not banned forever. And are also (but not only of course) threads like this that can help the RC to possibly re-evaluating the previous judgment of the cards.

    Two things:
    1. A card previously banned being unbanned now after years of discussion and examination is not evidence that all currently banned cards will be unbanned.
    2. You complain about papafunk's stance on this, yet this paragraph is evidence that the RC listens and is open to re-evaluating cards.

    I think there are good arguments to be made for and against Sol Ring being in the format, but far too much of thread is hyperbole and yelling at clouds.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
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    posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Impossible »
    Except it's broken in every deck, even the most casual ones. For example, T1>Sol Ring into T2>Thran Dynamo gives you potentially 8 mana on turn 3. Ring into Explosive Vegetation gives you potentially 7 mana on turn 3.


    To reiterate papafunk's point. If you're getting crushed by a T2 Thran Dynamo in casual, multiplayer games you/your group is doing something wrong.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • 2

    posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    For a brief period of time last night it was $6969.69 on TCGP/MTGGoldfish.


    Nice
    Posted in: Market Street Café
  • 2

    posted a message on Buy-outs - are things slowing down?
    He is far from alone in talking about the Reserved List. It's not really a new thing, I think however that more people have garnered an interest in MTG finance as the game has grown, and having the ability to manipulate a supply so definitely, with the online market the way that it is also allowing people to manipulate the price of things with such limited quantity, it should be no real surprise that the Reserved List market has been insane as MTG finance and MTG as a whole has grown.

    Plus, there's always the chance that someone lands on the next Reserved List Legacy bomb like Drop of Honey. For me, I grabbed some of the sort of CMDR playable Reserved List cards a couple of years ago with the feeling that "I better just get these now".

    With the guarantee of no further increased supply, people seem more inclined to buy cards they may not need now, but might possibly need later just because they may never decrease in price. On a personal note, the consistent RL buyouts have diminished my interest in MTG finance and MTG in general lately. It used to be kind of fun to try and figure out what was going to spike next based on history, now it's just sort of blah for me, but I'm sure it is probably pretty exciting for others pulling out old, previously worthless cards and realizing that they are now supposedly worth a fortune.

    Just my 2 cents. Also, no one has swept anything under the rug. This forum seems pretty plugged into what is happening with the RL buyouts, but I think fatigue has set in regarding discussion of the topic, which is completely understandable.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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