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  • posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    That seems like a suuuuper aggressive buyout. In the main places I shop/look at prices I can't find a single copy.

    Posted in: Market Street Café
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from cryogen »

    Can't be a staple if not everyone is running it. Teach

    Haha, this hard hitting analysis is why I come here!

    Really though, people didn't leave the format in droves when things like PoK, Primetime, SPrime were legal though they were totally format warping, so I'm not sure that's a good lens to look through.

    Also, I think we need to approach this discussion considering that Library is currently banned, and the RC needs actual reasons for it to come off.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Being a staple isn't a bad thing. Being a staple and being unobtainable is IMO.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from cryogen »

    See, thats my whole argument. You're agreeing with us thsst the card itself is probably safe. What I'm trying to do is to separate the card from the feeling surrounding it.

    Totally, I'm with you there. I'm questioning the possibility of actually unbanning the card for the reasons I stated.

    I don't think it's a boogeyman like Balance. I do think however that it is very, very good and would be a format staple.

    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Buffsam89 »

    1) No, I really don’t think it matters. It’ll only matter when it overperforms, and that won’t be all of the time. Even then, did it Warp the game? I’m going to say no.
    2)Being a staple implies that your deck isn’t as good as it could be without it. It’s the essence of this debate, but, you aren’t going to convince the majority of the EDH playerbase that this is truly the case. Again, this will only be the case when it overpreforms, which will be a seldom occurance in the vast majority of groups.
    3) See #2.
    4) I’m going to call BS right here, as politely as I can. It fills a niche role, incredibly well, but still niche. Let’s just say if I’m sitting at a table with you, I won’t feel pressured or threatened if that’s your tutor target. It’s easier for your opponents to make that a bad play than it is for you to make it a good play.
    5)Well, you did compare it to unconditional draw, which is just as “bad” of an argument.
    6)Again, your definition of “staple” is incredibly different than mine.

    I’d like to see it for the reason I stated before. Powerful, not game breaking, I’ve seen worse type of deal.

    1. I merely stated that it would be the best land in EDH, do you disagree?
    2. Right now Library would make the cut in 22/22 of my decks and those lists are tiiiiiiiight. There are decks it doesn't go in, but those are niche. The card has no drawbacks and at it's best draws you an extra card a turn.
    3. Being obtainable matters because it goes in so many decks.
    4. You're not pressured by me drawing an extra card every turn? Poor threat assessment.
    5. I wasn't comparing them in a vacuum. If I am playing Library, it will likely outperform both arena/staff in most games in terms of raw card draw since I'm able to throw it out early at no cost. I can play library turn 1 with no extra work, can't do that with the others.
    6. I'll agree to disagree with you here. I think you have to be creative to NOT include Library, similarly to Sol Ring.

    I agree that it is not game breaking. I am looking at it from the standpoint of availability/price/staple.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from cryogen »

    Are you suggesting that my motivation is based on ownership? I'm insulted, good zir!!!!

    Re: Magus, yoh compared it to a BB1 enchantment and six drop artifact, so :p

    Anyway, I fully understand that the risk to reward ration for unbanning Library is stupid high and not happening. The mere fact that the price would double AT THE LEAST is enough for them to leave Library where it is. I think that sucks because when you remove the concern of affecting price that much or whether people will feel bad that a card they can't afford is suddenly even less affordable I stand by my opinion that the card isn't the bogeyman people make it out to be. My cube runs half the ban list and I can assure you that Library isn't near the top of the worst offenders or cards that have turned games on their heads.

    I don't think it would break the format or anything and it is at least a reasonable card to discuss, but I think the availability/price/staple aspect is what keeps it on the list.

    I think were it super available like Sol Ring it would probably be ok for the format but sadly it just isn't.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from cryogen »

    1. So? There will always be a "the best X ever".
    2. Again, so? There are lots of staples, and as other people have said, it is not a universally held opinion that most decks want it.
    3. Price is irrelevant, there are cards that are double that price already. The RC cannot concern themselves with the secondary market.
    4. Seems like an exaggeration. If I'm sitting at 4 cards in hand and no clear way to refill why would I tutor for it over a different utility land that can help me in that moment?
    5. In function it is comparable to Magus of the Library. Both of those cards you listed unconditionally draw you a card each upkeep. Library does not.
    6. Again, there are plenty of legal cards which are already unobtainable to most players. If Library is already unobtainable to those players then they aren't suddenly priced out because it becomes even more expensive. But now the people who do have it get one more card to play with, and everyone who is ok with proxies can use it as well.

    Edit: the incentive is that they are removing a ban list criteria which is grossly misunderstood, shortening the ban list, and sticking to their consistency of this format being the one where you get to play with cool cards and stuff that's banned in other formats.

    1. It being the best land in the format matters.
    2. It being a staple is relevant due to it being largely unobtainable.
    3. It's not just price, but scarcity, and the fact that it would be a staple.
    4. 90% might be high for some, that's where it would be for me. It will be tutored for "most" of the time.
    5. Sure compare it to Magus of the Library, that creature costs double green and requires you to wait for a turn before you can activate it, making it several orders of magnitude worse than a land.
    6. How many of those are format staples? "People can proxy it" doesn't seem like very solid ground to stand on.

    Anyways, this is just my 2cents on the situation. In my view, it wouldn't make much sense for the RC to pull this off the list.

    On the other hand, if like you I had one laying around I'd probably want them to remove it too. Wink
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Library, if unbanned:

    1. Becomes arguably the best land in EDH.
    2. All decks can run it, most decks should.
    3. Is currently at over a thousand dollars, if unbanned this will skyrocket from there.
    4. Will be tutored for over other lands 90% of the time when applicable (Crop Rotation, Knight of the Reliquary, etc.)
    5. Extremely high power level: in function it competes with cards like Phyrexian Arena, Staff of Nin which are 3 and 6 CMC spells respectively.
    6. It is already unobtainable to most EDH players because of rarity and cost. Unbanning will make the card more unobtainable and expensive.

    These things considered, I ask what incentive does the RC have to unban this?

    I think it would be a lot more likely were it highly available like Sol Ring, but as it stands it seems iffy that the RC would put this back into the environment all things considered.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on When to buy certain cards
    Also, where YOU value cards is important. When a set is first released and you feel like a card is undervalued it just might be.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from ISBPathfinder »

    Vandalblast - its a good card at what it does, its just a question of if paying 5 mana and giving up a card is worth how narrow it can be at times. Its so powerful but it also asks the question of how often you are getting a heap of artifacts with this card and or that the artifacts are the problem you need to answer. Its powerful, just not flexible.

    I feel like you're forgetting that this can be cast for 1 mana to blow up an artifact if you don't need to nuke the board.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Reserved List Discussion
    In a game where lands are the most important cards in every deck, duals are the most functional color-fixing lands outside of fetches, yet they are completely out of reach for 99% of players due to outrageous price tags because of scarcity and a promise they would not be reprinted.

    That is not a good thing for magic.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    I mean you can look at it this way. Kids are an investment for a future playgroup (unless they hate magic, which...don't let them hate magic).

    Once you have kids your free-time goes to nothing. But kids are amazing and totally worth it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Underrated Spot Removal Spells For Creatures

    I want to say Putrefy and Mortify.

    I always considered those format staples. They are both a big step above Vindicate and Maelstrom Pulse because of the instant speed. I'd say Mortifys real competition is Anguished Unmaking and Utter End.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What to play in my new group?
    in a pure aggro meta it'd be really hard for me not to build Darien, King of Kjeldor
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Let's Brew : Tatyova, Benthic Druid
    Tatyova wouldn't work with The Great Aurora, since she wouldn't see the lands come out.

    Yeah, Tatyova will go to your command zone if she's out already, but The Great Aurora will most of the time launch you way ahead or to a win even. Your deck should be running a ton of lands so this is an easy sell, I just cut it because there are so many good cards for this deck and I opted for a lower mana curve.

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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