I'm just about starting with Angel Pod and I'd like some fundamental advice on the deck.
If one had to start from the beginning in designing the deck - how would you determine the creatures you'd include?
Obviously you need a number of creatures at each CMC cost - what is that number? Or how do you determine that number?
Then how do you determine a 'pod chain' - i.e. the movement from 2 CMC to 3 CMC to 4 CMC.
I'd just like to get an idea of how creatures fit into a list so that any changes I make aren't arbitrary or don't break a synergy inherent in the deck.
Well, there is what is considered to be "core" group of creatures that might not show up in every deck, every time, but are staples of the deck. I would start there. Off the top of my head:
1 CMC Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch
2 CMC Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, Wall of Roots, Qasali Pridemage, Voice of Resurgence
3 CMC Eternal Witness, Kitchen Finks, Orzhov Pontiff, Spike Feeder, Sin Collector
4 CMC Linvala, Murderous Redcap, Restoration Angel, Siege Rhino
5 CMC Archangel of Thune, Shriekmaw
There really is not a "right number" of these creatures. It depends on what feel you want for the deck. Lately, people are running a higher number of Finks and Siege Rhinos because of the life gain abilities.
Unlike Kiki Pod, there isn't a distinct "pod chain." You aren't looking (nor able to, usually) do multiple Pod activations on a single turn. What you are looking to do is search for answers, or value as needed to improve your position. Playing against a burn deck? You're looking to do something like Pod Finks into Restoration Angel, and use Resto's ETB ability to blink the Finks, thus removing his counter, and gaining you 4 life that turn. Then later, maybe you'll want to Pod the Finks into Siege Rhino, and gain 5 life on the turn. Playing against delver? Maybe you want to Pod away a Voice of Resurgence, get a token, search for Orzhov Pontiff and use his Haunt ETB ability to give your opponent creatures -1/-1 until end of turn. Then maybe later you pod away the Pontiff, getting a Siege Rhino, but first haunting one of their creatures. You proceed to immediately Abrupt Decay the creature that's haunted, and (hopefully) wipe their board again.
There is a lot of flexibility in the deck, and it's a lot of fun. The only way to really get good at it is to play the deck. Even once you've thought of everything you can do, you'll likely eventually think of something new.
I decided on maindecking the second Resto. Has a ton of targets, gives us another flier, can reuse Pontiff for Pyromancer, Reusing Rhino and Finks is gross as well. Though there was one point tonight where I found myself wanted to pod redcap away, but Thune was already out (with a dead feeder) and Shriekmaw was in play as well, leaving me no targets. I was ahead that game, and won anyways, but I imagine a similar scenario might happen where I'm not so ahead.
I get why Thragtusk is good. I mean I knew all those things you typed already, but it just seems like it should be something better.
How many people here are running Tusk? Would you care to share your success with it if you are?
What does the list you're running look like at this point?
I have all the usual 1 ofs, along with 3 Decay, 1 Path, 1 Chord, 2 Rhino, No Tusk, 2 Resto, 4 Finks, 2 Voice. I ended up not cutting Witness because it has been so strong for me. I just want to know if there is some reason I should be maindecking (or playing at all) Thragtusk.
Are you running Tarmogoyf? I would assume that you aren't, as you have room for 4 Finks.
I'm curiousabout about yours opinion at Restoration Angel vs. Phyrexian Metamorph ? :>
I like the Angel far better. First of all, you don't have blue mana to hard cast the Metamorph if it ends up in your hand. And in the current meta, every life point is meaningful. Restoration Angel also has Flash, which is useful from your hand if you need to save something in a pinch.
I decided on maindecking the second Resto. Has a ton of targets, gives us another flier, can reuse Pontiff for Pyromancer, Reusing Rhino and Finks is gross as well. Though there was one point tonight where I found myself wanted to pod redcap away, but Thune was already out (with a dead feeder) and Shriekmaw was in play as well, leaving me no targets. I was ahead that game, and won anyways, but I imagine a similar scenario might happen where I'm not so ahead.
I get why Thragtusk is good. I mean I knew all those things you typed already, but it just seems like it should be something better.
How many people here are running Tusk? Would you care to share your success with it if you are?
What does the list you're running look like at this point?
Unfortunately i wont be in gp milan due to my exams calendar and the delay in payments of wotc. They will give me te prize in 4 months , although i will be testing hard for pt washington to bring the best and mos innovative birthing pod decklist
Tarmogoyf is really needed in the current meta, i won like 4 rounds thanks to the classic killthebird secuenced by a tarmogoyf 4/5 unstoppable. Also, my decklist is well prepared for beating delver, mirrors and burns. The only problem i think is scapeshift and i will do some variants to improve the pairing. I really didnt expect a lot of scapes because they have real problems against burn, delver, boggles, twin and affinity, but definetly is a great deck.
This was my firts competitive gp, because the other 2 i played were with randomdecks and with friends, so i am really happy with my testing results. The only thing to improve is my physical condition, i admit that in round 12 i was exhausted because i had been working that night and pod requires making difficult decissions.
I will do an article, but the first and most important advice is MULL AND MULL if you dont like the hand, the deck is too powerful and a hand with bird and pod is enough to beat 40% of the meta. You can wath my features and i always mulled agresively, i won quarter with a mull to 5 and the feature against ascendancy i mulled to 4.
Regards, and i promise you will have news from me soon.
edit: eidolon is really good and deserves a place in the mainboard.
yes, i podded birds into tarmogyf a lot of times and the sensation is too good xd, there are pairings where podding into ooze is not good enough and you need punch as fast as possible.
edit: manabase is really important, and in the current meta you wont have the option to gavony because its really slow in many pairing. Moreover, my strategy of agressive mulligans involved a nonrisky manabase because a hand with 2 gavonys is bad.
At any point did you feel like you wanted a second Siege Rhino or another Finks in the deck?
There's a fairly large modern tournament in Central Wisconsin this coming Sunday. They're expecting a crowd of at least 200, but I've heard reports of up to 400. I'm taking a midrange build of this deck. I'll put up my final list I settle on and I'll definitely do my best to provide a report when I'm all done. This looks pretty promising, and I'm really enjoying it so far in my testing.
This is exactly the program I've been searching for. I want to have an offline copy of my collection, should something ever happen to Deckbox (where my current collection is stored). Deckbox only lets you export your collection to .CSV files. I know that earlier it was requested that we be able to import CSV files. The response was that you didn't know how a person's CSV was formatted. How about you tell US how you need it to be formatted, and then allow us to do it? Is that a possibility? I really don't want to have to re-enter all 8000+ of my cards :/
I'm experimenting with a very similar deck, I really wanted it to include White but I ended up going BUG for Heartless Summoning.
Heartless allows you to get all your things out 2 turns earlier, and leave mana up for flickering.
Are you using just ghostly flicker and Deadeye navigator for flickering then? Seems like having resto angel is almost a must in a flicker deck. Care to link yours so I could take a look?
Also, it only cost one colored mana, is removal against smaller dudes, still makes tokens against Control, and is a creature search engine.
He does it all.
Thanks for this. I'm gonna be looking into this pretty closely. I'll probably playtest it a bit. I appreciate the input! Regardless of how the final layout of the deck looks, I will let you know how the tournament goes
Board sweeps are not great, but since every creature gives you utility when it ETB anyway, it's really not that bad. If you want insurance against board wipes, you can always target one of your guys with Fiend Hunter - they kill him, you get your guy back.
Also - Garruk Relentless. I forgot that when I was testing the deck pre-rotation that he was an all-star. I'd actually play Relentless over Jace. That'll save you a few bucks.
On the subject of Garruk, is there a reason to play Relentless over Primal Hunter?
I was planning on playing something similar to this before I went a whole other direction with RakDW - I did play Bant Pod last season, though, and the ideas are very similar. I've got a bit to cover, so I'll split it into easier to digest bits:
First, Cloudshift, Ghostly Flicker, and Conjurer's Closet are not playable cards on their own merits so they shouldn't be considered here. Playable flicker effects are Restoration Angel and Deadeye Navigator - drop the bad flicker cards and max out on the good ones. Deadeye doesn't really see play, but it's very strong - with this type of deck it's pretty much a win if you untap with it in play.
Second, Avacyn's Pilgrim is not neccessary - you're not trying to ramp into broken 3 drops and it's a terrible topdeck.
Third, Lands - run more of them.
Fourth, Tristani and Tamayo are pretty random one-ofs... I don't think you really need them. Though, Tristani could be a solid SB choice.
Fifth, Angel of Serenity is borderline broken in most circumstances. Her + flicker effects (especially DN) are just straight broken.
It's different from your deck in several aspects, but the theme is the same: abusing powerful ETB abilities. I like Gatecreeper Vine because it + Farseek is some excellent mana fixing (especially since they can nab Gates and Shocks, respectively) and this is a mana hungry deck.
Fiend Hunter is in as a 4-of along with Centaur Healer so you'll be likely to have a solid turn 3 play against any Aggro - it also combos well with Navigator late game: you can exile any of your opponent's creatures permanently and/or continually getting ETB/LTB abilities from your other creatures by temp exiling them with its ability without having to switch DN's bond.
I switched the numbers on Thrags/Slime (even though I absolutely love Acidic Slime with Flicker effects) because Thrags + Flicker is probably the most broken thing you can do in Standard atm.
AoS and Jace were thrown in because they're both generally really good and specifically really good in this deck.
Overall, I like the way this looks. These are the questions that I have. Do you really feel that having no control will be sufficient? No counters, unsummons, etc? What is your reasoning for that? Regarding the others' posts it seems to leave me very vulnerable.
What I really like is that it still looks like there is sufficient flickering, even with those other spells gone. My only concern again is control. Before, if someone was going to do anything to target a critter, I could flicker it to safety. How would suggest dealing with that?
The part I dislike the MOST about this deck is that, in addition to my current buylist, I'd have to add 1 AoS, and 2 Jace.
I like the massive amount of flicker, but there is such a thing as too much flicker, as Ninja Bob posted. What about aggro, zombies, board wipes, control, etc. What will happen when any if not all of these get thrown at you? I run R/W Boros Humans atm, and with your build against me you would be dead by turn 4. That's the kind of speed that we deal with these days, as well as board wipes. my deck personally cant stop board wipes but yours can, take out the cloudshift and replace it with syncopate, negate, or something that can counter board wipers. Your theme is an interesting idea however it lacks the ability to deal with control.
As noted to Bob. I will give this a shot. It's funny because when I was looking into this deck, a friend of mine said, and I quote: "Cloudshift will be your first cut"
I think you're going a little overboard on the flicker theme. 2 Deadeye Navigator, 4 Restoration Angel, 2 Conjurer's Closet, 4 Cloudshift, and 3 Ghostly Flicker seems like way too much. Out of those choices, I would consider cutting the Ghostly Flicker's first in favor of some spot removal or counters.
"Is it tournament-worthy, or will I be crushed?"
Do you have Magic Online? Have you played it in any of the dailies?
I will definitely try out a bit more control as opposed to the flickers. Regarding the bolded: I'm only willing to pay for this deck once.
I have played it quite bit on Cockatrice, and I'd say I'm pulling a 70-80% win ratio.
So, this is the deck I'm looking to enter in my first large tournament (non FNM/Gameday/etc). I am VERY open to critique and sideboard suggestions/changes. I have a write-up below. Also, I'm new, so if I posted somewhere I shouldn't have, I apologize, and could someone point me in the correct direction? Thanks, and let's get on with it.
So, now for my write up on what I hope to attain and how I'm hoping things will work:
With the right opening draw, by turn 3, you are dropping Acidic Slime. This will start to wreak havoc on the opponent's mana pool. You can hopefully start flickering the Acidic Slime, drop Thragtusk, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and start using Restoration Angel, Ghostly Flicker, and Cloudshift for big creatures, and big life.
Let's not forget about getting Conjurer's Closet onto the board. Because then I'm getting flickers at the end of every turn. This allows my creatures to both attack and block the following turn. In addition, with Thragtusk and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice on the board, I'm generating more creatures, and gaining life at the end of every turn. There's also the option that if I don't need the life/additional creature, I'm taking out one land per turn from my opponent as well.
The card that worries me is Slaughter Games. I have two options, I believe if I see myself up against Red/Black. I'm going to try to have either Detention Sphere and be holding a Ghostly Flicker/Cloudshift in my hand if I think there's any chance that this could drop. By doing this, I can (hopefully) keep Thragtusk alive and on the board, as I believe that's what would be called. I might even go so far as to exile a Thragtusk early if I could, before Slaughter Games drops, just to be safe. That will clearly depend on what I'm holding in my hand and what I've managed to get onto the board by this point. The other option is to sideboard Nevermore and then call Slaughter Games when I play it.
Keeping Cavern of Souls on the board will allow me to play Angels and Beast (Thragtusk) against a blue deck. I don't see where having it in the deck can do anything but help me. I've considered adding 2.
If by chance, I can't seem to keep Thragtusk alive, I will try to use the same sort of set up with Armada Wurm. Either of these, flickering with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Conjurer's Closet on the board SHOULD be phenomenal. It will be huge amounts of life and creatures on a very regular basis.
Another great although rare, and horribly unlikely combo will be to get a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice out with 2x Fiend Hunter and one Restoration Angel. If I can do this, I will essentially be able to combo into infinite life. Then it will just be a matter of waiting things out and trying to mill the opponent or overrun them with big, bad tokens. Hopefully at some point, I can put out Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and start using her abilities for drawing cards. That should mill the opponent out and I will just continue to be putting everything back into my hand. That will work as long as I haven't played been forced into playing Rest in Peace. I will hope to always be holding a Dissipate back for that spell that could hurt you badly.
Sideboard should be pretty standard. Rest in Peace is in there just in case I play zombies/scavenge. Detention Sphere will be used for what I stated above. Also for use if I'm end up playing a token deck. Pack Rat would be a good example of this. Being able to suck them all off the board in a single shot will be a nice addition, I believe.
So, there you have it. I know it was long, but hopefully I was thourough in what I'm thinking. Thoughts/Comments/Critiques/Suggestions?
Well, there is what is considered to be "core" group of creatures that might not show up in every deck, every time, but are staples of the deck. I would start there. Off the top of my head:
1 CMC Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch
2 CMC Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, Wall of Roots, Qasali Pridemage, Voice of Resurgence
3 CMC Eternal Witness, Kitchen Finks, Orzhov Pontiff, Spike Feeder, Sin Collector
4 CMC Linvala, Murderous Redcap, Restoration Angel, Siege Rhino
5 CMC Archangel of Thune, Shriekmaw
There really is not a "right number" of these creatures. It depends on what feel you want for the deck. Lately, people are running a higher number of Finks and Siege Rhinos because of the life gain abilities.
Unlike Kiki Pod, there isn't a distinct "pod chain." You aren't looking (nor able to, usually) do multiple Pod activations on a single turn. What you are looking to do is search for answers, or value as needed to improve your position. Playing against a burn deck? You're looking to do something like Pod Finks into Restoration Angel, and use Resto's ETB ability to blink the Finks, thus removing his counter, and gaining you 4 life that turn. Then later, maybe you'll want to Pod the Finks into Siege Rhino, and gain 5 life on the turn. Playing against delver? Maybe you want to Pod away a Voice of Resurgence, get a token, search for Orzhov Pontiff and use his Haunt ETB ability to give your opponent creatures -1/-1 until end of turn. Then maybe later you pod away the Pontiff, getting a Siege Rhino, but first haunting one of their creatures. You proceed to immediately Abrupt Decay the creature that's haunted, and (hopefully) wipe their board again.
There is a lot of flexibility in the deck, and it's a lot of fun. The only way to really get good at it is to play the deck. Even once you've thought of everything you can do, you'll likely eventually think of something new.
Are you running Tarmogoyf? I would assume that you aren't, as you have room for 4 Finks.
I like the Angel far better. First of all, you don't have blue mana to hard cast the Metamorph if it ends up in your hand. And in the current meta, every life point is meaningful. Restoration Angel also has Flash, which is useful from your hand if you need to save something in a pinch.
What does the list you're running look like at this point?
At any point did you feel like you wanted a second Siege Rhino or another Finks in the deck?
Are you using just ghostly flicker and Deadeye navigator for flickering then? Seems like having resto angel is almost a must in a flicker deck. Care to link yours so I could take a look?
Thanks for this. I'm gonna be looking into this pretty closely. I'll probably playtest it a bit. I appreciate the input! Regardless of how the final layout of the deck looks, I will let you know how the tournament goes
On the subject of Garruk, is there a reason to play Relentless over Primal Hunter?
Overall, I like the way this looks. These are the questions that I have. Do you really feel that having no control will be sufficient? No counters, unsummons, etc? What is your reasoning for that? Regarding the others' posts it seems to leave me very vulnerable.
What I really like is that it still looks like there is sufficient flickering, even with those other spells gone. My only concern again is control. Before, if someone was going to do anything to target a critter, I could flicker it to safety. How would suggest dealing with that?
The part I dislike the MOST about this deck is that, in addition to my current buylist, I'd have to add 1 AoS, and 2 Jace.
As noted to Bob. I will give this a shot. It's funny because when I was looking into this deck, a friend of mine said, and I quote: "Cloudshift will be your first cut"
I will definitely try out a bit more control as opposed to the flickers. Regarding the bolded: I'm only willing to pay for this deck once.
I have played it quite bit on Cockatrice, and I'd say I'm pulling a 70-80% win ratio.
4x Acidic Slime
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
2x Centaur Healer
2x Deadeye Navigator
2x Fiend Hunter
4x Restoration Angel
3x Thragtusk
1x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Lands (21)
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Forest
3x Sunpetal Grove
3x Glacial Fortress
4x Hallowed Fountain
3x Hinterland Harbor
4x Temple Garden
2x Conjurer's Closet
Planeswalkers (1)
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Instants (10)
4x Cloudshift
3x Dissipate
3x Ghostly Flicker
Sorcery (4)
4x Farseek
1x Angel of Serenity
2x Armada Wurm
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
2x Azorius Charm
2x Detention Sphere
2x Heroes' Reunion
2x Nevermore
2x Rest in Peace
2x Supreme Verdict
So, now for my write up on what I hope to attain and how I'm hoping things will work:
With the right opening draw, by turn 3, you are dropping Acidic Slime. This will start to wreak havoc on the opponent's mana pool. You can hopefully start flickering the Acidic Slime, drop Thragtusk, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and start using Restoration Angel, Ghostly Flicker, and Cloudshift for big creatures, and big life.
Let's not forget about getting Conjurer's Closet onto the board. Because then I'm getting flickers at the end of every turn. This allows my creatures to both attack and block the following turn. In addition, with Thragtusk and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice on the board, I'm generating more creatures, and gaining life at the end of every turn. There's also the option that if I don't need the life/additional creature, I'm taking out one land per turn from my opponent as well.
The card that worries me is Slaughter Games. I have two options, I believe if I see myself up against Red/Black. I'm going to try to have either Detention Sphere and be holding a Ghostly Flicker/Cloudshift in my hand if I think there's any chance that this could drop. By doing this, I can (hopefully) keep Thragtusk alive and on the board, as I believe that's what would be called. I might even go so far as to exile a Thragtusk early if I could, before Slaughter Games drops, just to be safe. That will clearly depend on what I'm holding in my hand and what I've managed to get onto the board by this point. The other option is to sideboard Nevermore and then call Slaughter Games when I play it.
Keeping Cavern of Souls on the board will allow me to play Angels and Beast (Thragtusk) against a blue deck. I don't see where having it in the deck can do anything but help me. I've considered adding 2.
If by chance, I can't seem to keep Thragtusk alive, I will try to use the same sort of set up with Armada Wurm. Either of these, flickering with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Conjurer's Closet on the board SHOULD be phenomenal. It will be huge amounts of life and creatures on a very regular basis.
Another great although rare, and horribly unlikely combo will be to get a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice out with 2x Fiend Hunter and one Restoration Angel. If I can do this, I will essentially be able to combo into infinite life. Then it will just be a matter of waiting things out and trying to mill the opponent or overrun them with big, bad tokens. Hopefully at some point, I can put out Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and start using her abilities for drawing cards. That should mill the opponent out and I will just continue to be putting everything back into my hand. That will work as long as I haven't played been forced into playing Rest in Peace. I will hope to always be holding a Dissipate back for that spell that could hurt you badly.
Sideboard should be pretty standard. Rest in Peace is in there just in case I play zombies/scavenge. Detention Sphere will be used for what I stated above. Also for use if I'm end up playing a token deck. Pack Rat would be a good example of this. Being able to suck them all off the board in a single shot will be a nice addition, I believe.
So, there you have it. I know it was long, but hopefully I was thourough in what I'm thinking. Thoughts/Comments/Critiques/Suggestions?