My two cents: Strix would be the best creature in the format if it had 2 Power. As it stands, it cantrips, flies, trades with a creature, pitches to FOW, and is an artifact which makes it easier to recur and gives an extra boost to Goyfs. However, it is not a threat on its own. It needs a shell to be effective. It's good for Shardless BUG because it can be cast for free, and clogs the board. In Blade lists it can carry equipment to make it a threat. It fits into Tezz decks because its an artifact that cantrips and can be made into a threat. All in all a fantastic card in few decks but not a creature that one would build around. Great card design IMO.
hehe, Pyrostorm in Modern is turning in its grave... (that deck is dead, right)
But seriously, you know Pyroman is awesome because you DON'T have to overextend when you have him, right lol
Also, am I the only one running 19 lands??
True, but my inner Johnny loves to win in style
I've not considered going to 19 lands, I guess it might be safer considering we run 8 2 drops and 4 1 drops, unlike RUG's 4 2 drops and 8 1 drops. Do you play with another Fetch or a 7th Dual land? When I previously tried Grixis I ran 19 land including 1 Badlands, but that was a list that had Tombstalker in it, pre-Pyroman.
How is only 3 Gitaxian Probes working for you? Is the 4th really all that necessary?
I've definitely cut the second Dismember for the fourth probe. With 2 Innocent Blood + 4 Bolts + 1 Dismember I found I've got enough removal. You always want to see a probe, it replaces itself, gives you info, and often another 1/1, so 4 is probably the correct amount.
Now for a cool story: I actually at one point during a game had 3 Pyromancers on the board and cast Probe, drawing another probe, drawing into Ponder.....revealing another Probe. Sure, it was win-more, but it felt good to turn those additional 12 1/1's sideways.
Again, I'm not entirely certain about having 2 Dismembers maindeck and I may replace one of them with the 4th Probe or maybe a Lavamancer. The Sideboard is also fluid, as I constantly take stuff in and out. Electrickery is another card that's just killer in the mirror, but I love the flexibility of Fire Covenant.
Ok, I playtested a little last night and I've been REALLY impressed by Innocent Blood (2 main, 1 board). They cost 1 and kill even more things than Dismember. I killed a few Mongeese that night.
The single Island has served me well too. WeaponX has caught on to the fact that no one uses basic lands and as such use Path to Exile as a no-drawback StP. It feels SO good being able to fetch a basic with Path
Glad to see someone else has tried testing Innocent Blood. I am extremely happy with its performance in Grixis. I'm still not sure exactly the best removal suite for this deck, but 4 Bolts, 1-2 Dismembers and 2 Innocent Bloods seem to be where I am headed. I don't want to cut Dismember entirely as there are times when you really want that card. With SB options like Fire Covenant, Perish, Innocent Blood, Disfigure, and Bonfire of the Damned to go along with our maindeck removal, we're well equipped to deal with most creature strategies. Really loving this deck atm.
Yeah Diabolic Edict is an instant, but 2 mana for removal just stinks. Innocent Blood gives us an extra turn 1 option. For 1 mana it's the best removal black has; if your deck can run it, which I believe this deck can. Now whether it's main-deck material (possibly) or sideboard (most likely) is what I want to test.
I think moving forward, this deck could really benefit from the use of Innocent Blood. I'm currently testing it as a 3 of in the SB, and may move 2 of them to the main deck. It's a fantastic answer to Nemesis and Goose.
The Jund deck had 3 Choke in it's sideboard, presumably to combat Omnitell. Any thoughts?
I'd rather use Chains of Mephistopheles to disrupt blue decks, but Choke is not bad at disrupting them either. The only problem with Choke is that you need to wait until they're tapped out for it to have the greatest effect. If a combo deck is untapped with Choke on the board, they can still go off. It's much harder for combo decks to go off with a Chains on the board than Choke.
Jund is absolutely not a dead deck in legacy. The deck still puts up great results (check TCdecks.net for the deck's performance in tourneys outside and including SCG). I think that most SCG players want to use the best fair blue decks (and rightly so) and Jund is a deck that preys upon fair blue decks, just be prepared for an uphill battle against Storm and Show & Tell Decks. The ability to fight through combo is available post-board to Jund. One problem is that one of Jund's best hate cards is the extremely rare and expensive Chains of Mephistopheles. I honestly don't think I've lost a single match against combo where I've resolved this little beauty, but its availability is limited and its a big investment for a narrowly used card. I run two of it in my Jund SB, and would never run less, but I luckily owned both copies from my early days of playing when I acquired it in trades just because it had cool art.
There is Ogres Games that does Legacy its on South Kingshighway in South city. Also occasionally the Fantasy Shop does legacy. There are several Fantasy Shop locations in the STL area. I think there are a few other places in the area that do Friday Night Magic, but these are the two that I am certain of. Welcome to St. Louis! It's not a bad town to live in, some of the nicest suburbs in the country, good school districts if you have kids, decent night life if you don't, and either way it's cheap to live here.
I'd really like to work some stifles in the main, but I'm unsure what to cut. I like the idea of stifle + sinkhole though. Maybe some Hymns in the board for those times when sinkhole isn't gonna help as much (TES, ANT, Tin-Fins).
Maybe drop Jace + Liliana to the board?
Suggestions please?
Josh
Definitely drop Jace and Liliana to the board. In fact I would never run Jace in Team America period. 3 Mana is the absolute top end of what we can reasonably cast, this is not a deck that wants to play the mid-long game where we see Jace hit the table. By that point, we already want to be winning or close to it.
Playing Sinkhole maindeck over Hymn is also probably wrong. The whole point of Including Shaman is to be able to cast 2 mana-haymakers like Hymn and Decay reliably in the early game. Sinkhole really only needs to come in against mid-range decks that give us trouble as a way to keep them in an early game state (recently some have included 2 Winter Orb instead of Sinkhole). If you are expecting a heavy combo meta then maybe the maindeck 3 Decays are enough removal, but you really want to run at least 5 maindeck removal in my testing with this deck.
The Spell Pierces and Thoughtseizes come in against Combo in place of the removal. Grafdigger's Cage comes in against Dredge or Reanimator, Sylvan Library comes in against Control decks and mid-range decks. Chill is great against Burn, Jund, and even Goblins. Clique is an additional card to bring in against combo and Esperblade. In a wide open meta this should prove to be a solid list.
This is an example of how Not to start a thread without properly establishing context.
so far, the
[Discussion] Favorite Legacy Core - Playstyles
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[Discussion] Favorite Legacy Deck
What is the definition of Playstyles?
Based on the opening post, is playing Merfolk or Reanimator a Playstyle? Is playing Green or playing Red a playstyle?
I don't see the point of everyone just posting a laundry list of decks he or she enjoys playing.
From my understanding, Playstyle refers to the rock-scissor-paper of aggro/combo/control, or a mix of the three. If not, then someone has to define it first.
Well my favorite playstyle is Tempo (aggro-control) and my favorite deck is Team America.
Not sure, he had priests of tatania, a staff that could untap and draw cards etc. I was mostly getting rid of his key creatures and countering his staffs, then eventually got tombstalker or goyf out and won those games, but nothing really tempo orientated.
Sounds like a budget version of aggro-Elves running Staff of Domination as a control element? Did he run Gaea's Cradle? If the game went 20 turns and you did not see any Glimpse of Nature/Natural Order, I would not worry about that particular Elves deck too much. Against true combo Elves, you need Disfigures boarded in, or if you're running them Engineered Plagues. Those early Elves must die.
Consider my list as a sideboarded deck, I don't have any sideboards for my casual decks. I'm trying to find the perfect balance considering my meta. While I do understand that some cards are sideboard material, think if you would board them or not knowning you would face a deck on my list.
That being said, I love your imput on Geist, I guess I just wanted him because I like the creature (hexproof!) so much, but your points are right, I don't remember the last time it was that useful against creatures based decks. I'll remove him from there. Knowing I only play 2 colors, why is it worth it to play Engineered Explosive? Why not more Supreme Verdict? I had no problems dealing with enchantments or artefacts so far.
For the Force of Will, I have them in an other deck but I guess I could move them into this. I didn't really felt I needed them but one or two times when I played the deck and I wouldn't know what to cut for them, since the Spell Snare are going out for some board wipes.
How would Sword of Fire and Ice be any useful when I'm the only one playing blue? What would I equip the sword on, considering I remove the Geists? Shouldn't I add a more powerful creature or small ones? I wish I had the Lingering Souls but I can't splash black, yet their spot has to be filled.
I'm worried about good bodies for the equipments, maybe something that would come back after a wipe or something. The loss of Geist scares me alot. Could Mishra's Factory help me?
Once again I appreciate the help.
I guess you have a point regarding running explosives in a two color deck. I still would not go with 4 Verdicts. Maybe 2-3 and since you're running tops go with a Terminus or two. As far as more bodies, Mishra's Factory would be decent as they avoid those board wipes. You could also consider Mirran Crusader as a replacement for Geist. Against the aggro decks in your meta, getting a Jitte online will win you many games, and failing that, Batterskull is great against creatures as well. Timely Reinforcements is another card that's fantastic when coming from behind, it may be something to consider.
Also, just looking at your meta with absolutely no combo decks, you may want to consider a different deck. Punishing Jund would stomp all over these decks. I don't know what your card pool is, but if you want to win in that environment U/W Blade is not necessarily the best choice (still a good choice, but there's better IMO). Just a thought.
True, but my inner Johnny loves to win in style
I've not considered going to 19 lands, I guess it might be safer considering we run 8 2 drops and 4 1 drops, unlike RUG's 4 2 drops and 8 1 drops. Do you play with another Fetch or a 7th Dual land? When I previously tried Grixis I ran 19 land including 1 Badlands, but that was a list that had Tombstalker in it, pre-Pyroman.
I've definitely cut the second Dismember for the fourth probe. With 2 Innocent Blood + 4 Bolts + 1 Dismember I found I've got enough removal. You always want to see a probe, it replaces itself, gives you info, and often another 1/1, so 4 is probably the correct amount.
Now for a cool story: I actually at one point during a game had 3 Pyromancers on the board and cast Probe, drawing another probe, drawing into Ponder.....revealing another Probe. Sure, it was win-more, but it felt good to turn those additional 12 1/1's sideways.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
2 Innocent Blood
4 Stifle
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Perish
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Fire Covenant
Again, I'm not entirely certain about having 2 Dismembers maindeck and I may replace one of them with the 4th Probe or maybe a Lavamancer. The Sideboard is also fluid, as I constantly take stuff in and out. Electrickery is another card that's just killer in the mirror, but I love the flexibility of Fire Covenant.
Glad to see someone else has tried testing Innocent Blood. I am extremely happy with its performance in Grixis. I'm still not sure exactly the best removal suite for this deck, but 4 Bolts, 1-2 Dismembers and 2 Innocent Bloods seem to be where I am headed. I don't want to cut Dismember entirely as there are times when you really want that card. With SB options like Fire Covenant, Perish, Innocent Blood, Disfigure, and Bonfire of the Damned to go along with our maindeck removal, we're well equipped to deal with most creature strategies. Really loving this deck atm.
I'd rather use Chains of Mephistopheles to disrupt blue decks, but Choke is not bad at disrupting them either. The only problem with Choke is that you need to wait until they're tapped out for it to have the greatest effect. If a combo deck is untapped with Choke on the board, they can still go off. It's much harder for combo decks to go off with a Chains on the board than Choke.
Definitely drop Jace and Liliana to the board. In fact I would never run Jace in Team America period. 3 Mana is the absolute top end of what we can reasonably cast, this is not a deck that wants to play the mid-long game where we see Jace hit the table. By that point, we already want to be winning or close to it.
Playing Sinkhole maindeck over Hymn is also probably wrong. The whole point of Including Shaman is to be able to cast 2 mana-haymakers like Hymn and Decay reliably in the early game. Sinkhole really only needs to come in against mid-range decks that give us trouble as a way to keep them in an early game state (recently some have included 2 Winter Orb instead of Sinkhole). If you are expecting a heavy combo meta then maybe the maindeck 3 Decays are enough removal, but you really want to run at least 5 maindeck removal in my testing with this deck.
What I've been playing recently looks like this:
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tombstalker
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Sinkhole
3 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sylvan Library
2 Chill
1 Vendilion Clique
The Spell Pierces and Thoughtseizes come in against Combo in place of the removal. Grafdigger's Cage comes in against Dredge or Reanimator, Sylvan Library comes in against Control decks and mid-range decks. Chill is great against Burn, Jund, and even Goblins. Clique is an additional card to bring in against combo and Esperblade. In a wide open meta this should prove to be a solid list.
Well my favorite playstyle is Tempo (aggro-control) and my favorite deck is Team America.
Sounds like a budget version of aggro-Elves running Staff of Domination as a control element? Did he run Gaea's Cradle? If the game went 20 turns and you did not see any Glimpse of Nature/Natural Order, I would not worry about that particular Elves deck too much. Against true combo Elves, you need Disfigures boarded in, or if you're running them Engineered Plagues. Those early Elves must die.
I guess you have a point regarding running explosives in a two color deck. I still would not go with 4 Verdicts. Maybe 2-3 and since you're running tops go with a Terminus or two. As far as more bodies, Mishra's Factory would be decent as they avoid those board wipes. You could also consider Mirran Crusader as a replacement for Geist. Against the aggro decks in your meta, getting a Jitte online will win you many games, and failing that, Batterskull is great against creatures as well. Timely Reinforcements is another card that's fantastic when coming from behind, it may be something to consider.
Also, just looking at your meta with absolutely no combo decks, you may want to consider a different deck. Punishing Jund would stomp all over these decks. I don't know what your card pool is, but if you want to win in that environment U/W Blade is not necessarily the best choice (still a good choice, but there's better IMO). Just a thought.