2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I never mulligan looking for it, no. It's just extra value whenever it happens to be in my opener. I do however side it out whenever I know I'm going to be on the play, replacing it with the sideboard Ghost Quarter. This also has the nice upside of forcing me to look at the sideboard between each game.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    What's your rationale for [Everflowing Chalice and Wayfarer's Bauble]?

    It started the the following realization. The deck needs to be able to cast somewhat expensive cards in a reasonable time, even when you haven't assembled tron. The difference of getting a turn 5 Wurmcoil Engine instead of a turn 6 is huge, so is casting a turn 3 Solemn Simulacrum or Gifts Ungiven. This is the reason many lists run three Talisman of Dominance, which is the commonly agreed perfect amount of ramp when you're not doing anything too special. It has been dubbed Shocktroopa style, as he has been a vocal supporter when the topic came up for debate. If you feel you don't need quite as much ramp, you can go down to two, or even one Talisman, but going up to four simply doesn't work. They get clogged in your hand, and sequencing multiple copies can be awkward. To alleviate this problem I added the bauble as a fourth ramp spell. It can be played on turn one, or if drawn on turn two can be dropped together with a talisman on the same turn. It has the advantage of allowing me to keep up counterspells turn two, and if nothing relevant happened ramp instead. A bauble and a Talisman sequences far better than two Talismans, while still giving the same amount of ramp and less life paid.

    Adding the bauble gives me another blue source in the deck. Which is nice, but not strictly necessary. It does however mean that I replace one of the original Talismans with an Everflowing chalice. It doesn't allow paying life for blue, but can be played for more than 2. This has several times helped me get to 7 mana for an Angel just in time, or to have enough mana to cast and activate Mindslaver on the same turn vs people I fear have artifact removal. Setting up the lock becomes easier as well. Several times I've also completed tron against someone with land destruction on the table, and cast the chalice for 3 as soon as I got to tron, which allows me to keep the mana advantage. it's also way better to have a Talisman and an Everflowing than two Talismans, as it sets up bigger plays without worrying about your specific land drops. Even a Wayfarer's Bauble and Everflowing together is preferable. As you have the same floor, but never have to pay life for the blue.

    My inclusion of a singleton Gemstone Caverns follows the same reasoning. When playing with Gifts Ungiven I need to get to more mana than my opponent quickly.

    How have you been doing against Burn?


    I'd say that without the inclusion of Gemstone Caverns Burn is very slightly favored, however the games where I get to start with caverns (11% of games on draw) moves this over to slightly favorable for me. Turn 0 Dismember on a Goblin Guide (3% on draw) or turn 1 hard counter Eidolon (~3%) does a lot to shore up the matchup. As well as getting to sculpt the hand and reach more expensive spells earlier.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I'm going to play in the WMCQs this weekend, and I'm planning in using something close to the following list. I've been pretty happy with it since I got day two on GP Copenhagen, and more recently lost in the finals of a PPTQ with it. I have explained most of the card choices elsewhere in the thread.



    I feel comfortable with the maindeck, but something feels off with the sideboard. I have done some experimenting with putting both Wurmcoils in the main, replacing either a Treasure mage or a Solemn, but the deck simply becomes too top heavy like that. I live the chalices in the side, but don't see their great matchups often enough to justify mainboarding them. I got the Crucible/Ghost quarter package, as they become quite a bit better with gifts. I'm unsure if the Negate should be a Spell Pierce instead, and I can't reason my way through whether the Squelches are worth slots or not.

    Does anyone have any tweaks to suggest?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I don't think Calculated Dismissal is worth a slot. Not being castable on turn two is a huge downside. However the scrying is very valuable in our deck, and I think I would play 5ft Condescend if I could. I haven't tested it, but following this line of reasoning could a copy of Broken Ambitions be viable? Mainly in the versions of UTron running Gifts Ungiven. We get more value out of the clash/scry than a lot of other decks, and if we win the clash (30%??) they don't get the scry at all. Milling against decks with Delve could be very bad though.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I haven't tested with Mana Leak, but I think I prefer Remand by a fair margin. Remand covers the downsides of and enhances our other counterspells. Mainly through hitting land drops easier, and efficiently dealing with Flashback spells. One way it enhances Condescend is that if you have both Remand and Condescend on your hand at the same time in the mid game it's easier to assemble a hard counter than with Mana Leak and Condescend. If you Remand their first spell they will likely have to pay more than two mana to recast it, putting them in range for a hard counter with Condescend. Another way is that that cycling on Remand is really valuable when looking for tron lands, something that isn't quite as easy to get in my list that doesn't run Anticipate. Any amount of extra lands makes Condescend more powerful too.

    There's also the advantage in Remanding your own spells which is pretty often free card advantage.

    Twin in particular is somewhat of a special case. We really want to have more hard counters in our deck than they have Pestermites and Deceiver Exarch. Though given that we already have a good matchup against them I don't think switching to Mana leak is worth it to get a small advantage against that one deck.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Yeah, the Ad Nauseam missplay annoyed me the entire weekend. I had time to think it through, I just didn't...
    The loss to tokens isn't that weird, those hand disruption spells gets really effective when you've started mulling low. In game two I think He had multiple inquisitions which stripped me of having any spells at all.
    I can't find much notes from the Grixs twin game I lost, but I think I died to beatdown from Tasigurs, where most of the damage actually came from me casting Dismembers on them. There was definitively more than one cast.

    Gemstone Caverns has been really nice. It effectively gives you the choice of being on the play by exiling one card of your choice from the opening hand. This card is frequently going to be a land card you don't need, like a duplicate tron land. We run 27+ lands/maps in the deck, we're going to flood out if we cast draw spells and don't do anything special. Alternatively you can exile a duplicate spell like a second Repeal, or a finisher you know wont get relevant for quite some time. Being on the play with 6 cards and one out of two Mindslavers exiled is far preferable to being on the draw with 7 cards while desperate for early interaction. So far I've been keeping track of how it impacts mulligans, and so far I've had to mulligan an opening hand due to lacking blue once or twice, but have dozens upon dozens of games where the extra land increased my win chances by 30% or more. Some seeming almost unwinnable without the Caverns
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    So, here's my report of GP Copenhagen.

    I was going to start wring this post when my decklist had been posted on the mothership, but there seems to have been a slip-up. My list got tossed in with the other tron decks in the metagame breakdown, and was represented in the article(s) by our distant cousin GR tron in the Archetype Exemplar article. Though I did get a sentence mentioning my deck in the initial archetype breakdown.
    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpcop15/day-2-metagame-grand-prix-copenhagen-2015-2015-06-21


    As I mentioned in a previous post I went day two with the list. I was 7-2, with one bye after day one. Day two I did somewhat worse, finishing 3-3 for a final standing of 106th. Doing worse on day two might be expected given I was now meeting better players, and when I asked them of their experience, most had already been on a day two before.

    I was playing the following deck. It is something of a departure from the lists posted here recently. I'm not running any Anticipates, nor am I running Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Instead I am running a higher number of artifacts than most, to get real card advantage out of Thirst for Knowledge every single time. I'm also running Gifts Ungiven, which is somewhere between being Thirst five and six and being thirst with a kicker, they both turn one nonland card into two nonland cards. To support the extra card draw I have supplied the deck with good amounts of ramp, running two Talismans, an Everflowing Chalice, a Gemstone Caverns and even a Wayfarer's Bauble to get up to 4 mana quickly. Everflowing in particular have been really good, and I only cast it for less than two counters once during the entire Friday and main event. That it doesn't produce blue isn't the end of the world, but can potentially be an annoyance. In any case you should already be playing enough blue sources from lands to not need to rely on Talismans staying on the table. I will probably write another post in a weeks time discussing what I think of potential cards choices, or go more in depth on my own if you have questions.



    On Friday I played two scheduled events, of 5 rounds each. I went 4-1 in both of them, and felt confident on my deck choice for the weekend. The last minute testing of Everflowing Chalice looked promising and I decided to play it in the main event.

    I'm working on incomplete notes so I'll piece together as much as possible, but I'm still hazy on a few parts.

    Round one: Bye from Planeswalker Points

    1-0

    Round two: Infect. Not a great matchup, but I had kept an initial hand with Repeal and Snapcaster allowing me to keep him from doing any poising damage before turn 6 or so in game one. In game two I lock him down with Chalice of the Void for one, and a Platinum Angel. He seemed somewhat inexperienced with his deck, but a win is a win.

    2-0

    Round three: Affinity. He gets off to a quick start game one, and I can't keep up. I tap out to activate Oblivon Stone, and he kills me with a Galanic Blast in response. Game two goes much the same. He Thoughtseized away my Hurkyl's Recall and empties his hand on the table. 0-2

    2-1

    Round four: Ad Nauseam. Not a deck I've had much practice against, whenever I've played against it online I've lost the first game, then won the two next. I figured it would be much the same now.
    He wins the first one after I try to Repeal his newly cast Lotus Bloom in his upkeep, which is met by Ad Nauseam for which I Remand. He counters with a Pact of Negation for a win. Had I instead Remanded his Lotus Bloom I would have had a few more turns to set something up, but I'm unsure about the right play here.


    For game two I take in pairs of Chalice of the Void and Spell Snare to deal with his mana and countermagic. In the game I cast chalice for zero the turn before his Lotus Bloom comes off suspend countering it and preventing him from using his pacts. This wins me the game. Game three I start with a Chalice in hand and manage to put two of them on the table within a couple of turns. For one and two respectively. Sadly he topdecks Phyrexian Unlife the turn after I get chalice for one, allowing him to still combo off if he has an Ad Nauseam. I find myself on 4 lands, of which one is blue, a Gifts Ungiven in hand but with absolutely no pressure nor counterspells. If he had Ad Nauseam he can just kill me outright. I make the play of casting Gifts Ungiven to grab counterspells, and he comboes in response. Had I instead just waited he wouldn't have gone for the kill for a few turns, but it's doubtful I would have had counterspells myself by then. In any case I believe in hindsight that had I waited I would have had slightly higher chances. In the end it turns out my mistake wouldn't have mattered as he had a Gigadrowse on hand which would have tapped down my blue mana, even through a Chalice of the void. Though even here it's possible that he wouldn't have won, as he said something that suggested he didn't know the replications don't get countered. 1-2

    2-2

    Round five: Living End?? I can't find much notes for this one, but I won 2-0 without him dealing damage to me. Only thing I remember is that I started with Gemstone Caverns on the table both games, I feel it's hard to lose when I do.

    3-2

    Round Six: Collected Company with Anafenza, low on combo pieces. I get down an early Wurmcoil in game one and ride it to victory. Game two is a long and drawn out affair and I lose with little time left on the clock. I make a strong start but time gets called before we finish. My opponent concedes to me once he realizes that I'm on 9 points, where he is only on 8, having already drawn twice after only five rounds! 2-1

    4-2

    Round Seven: Grixis control. We trade resources for a while, but I win via Thirst for Knowledge and Gifts Ungiven giving me more resources than him. In game two he gets a really early Tasigur which he keeps alive through my Dismembers using a couple of Dispels. In game three I force through a Wurmcoil in the mid game and ride it to victory. 2-1


    5-2

    Round eight: UR Twin. No much notable happens in this match. U Tron just does what U Tron does. Trade resources until I'm on 4 life, where I assemble a Slaver Lock. I see his sideboard is light on permission, and go to the next game, which I win via an early Wurmcoil 2-0

    6-2

    Round nine: Grixis Twin, player has some 160+ pro points. I'm on the draw with two tron lands, a Talisman, a Mindslaver as well as some permission and draw. My turn two signet resolves through his open blue mana. Over the next few turns I take 4-5 damage from my signet, but it's worth it, as I get to dig myself down to early tron and Mindslaver. I cast his Snapcaster, kill Snapcaster and discard a Tasigur with his Kholagan's Command. Smooth sailing for the rest of that game. I expect him to take out Splinter Twins, and bolts, and instead go for Kholagan's Command and Tasigur value game two. I take out Talismans, Platinum angel and a mindslaver to get space for another Wurmcoil, some Dismember and Spell Snare. I think my matchup is becoming better after sideboarding. In game two he goes for a combo kill but gets two for oned by Dismember on his Deceiver Exarch. After this I tap myself out completely for several turns to dig for cards and to resolve a Wurmcoil. When the Wurmcoil is on the table and the dust settles I find myself without countermagic, a repeal and a thirst on hand. He's on one card and 5-6 mana. One turn he taps himself out completely to bounce/draw on my Wurmcoil, which is then answered by me Repealing it. I figured that if I could draw just a single counterspell and keep him of any cards I would win the game. Turns out I was, and on to day two! 2-0

    7-2

    DAY 2

    Round ten: Jund. I repeal his early plays and manage to put down an early Mindslaver, he scoops in response to activation. In with Wurmcoil and Snares, out with Talismans that die to hate. Game two goes pretty well too, I get down an early Wurmcoil ride it to victory. 2-0

    8-2

    Round eleven: Infect. This opponent does everything right and kills me quickly without interaction in game one. I grab Chalice of the Void from my sideboard as well as Dismember and win the next game using a Platinum Angel. Game three he gets a good start, and kills me when he Probes and sees I can't stop his pump. 1-2

    8-3. No top 8 for me.

    Round twelve. Grixis twin. He wins two quick games where he curves nicely against my clunky hands. 0-2

    8-4.

    Round thirteen. Temur Moon. I start of thinking this is Tarmo-twin, but the Pestermites and Exarches never come. Instead I face Vernillion Cliques and Goyf. I keep them off the table for a while. On my penultimate turn set up for a Mindslaver cast+activation the by casting Everflowing Chalice for 3, putting me at 10 mana when I play land next turn. He lets the chalice resolve. On my turn I cast the Mindslaver leaving a single blue, and some tron lands open, but no set. He Remands it, keeping me off mana to activate it. I remand back. He let's it resolve as I can't activate it even if I have a land that gives one. I play my final tron land and activate. He concedes upon me asking to see his sideboard in his turn. Game two he curves out well with Goyf and clique. In game three he mulligans to 5, and plays only fetchlands the first three turns of the game. At the end of my fourth turn he cracks a fetch. I Squelch it, he frowns a bit, fetches his two other lands, and Mana Leaks my Squelch. I return with a Spell Snare. On his turn he doesn't play another land, and never recovers. 2-1

    9-4

    Round fourteen: Grixis. Few notes. I win 2-0 without going under 10 life.

    10-4

    At this point I have the highest finish on day two of anyone in my play group. I was at that point ranked 88th and I was thinking of whether I should be trying to draw the next game or not. I come to the conclusion that if I offer a draw I'm not guaranteed to win prizes, which goes only to the top 100. This seemed reasonable as I had jumped over 40 spots since winning against the Grixis player in round fourteen. In the end I decide to play to have a chance at a pro point, despite offering to draw might lead to higher prizes on average.

    Round fifteen: BW tokens. I ask my opponent if he wants to draw, which he doesn't find particularly attractive, likely also thinking he risks getting just outside of prizes. He's on the play and I go to 6. On turn one he Inquisitions me, takes my early interaction and sets up a hard to deal clock through a Bitterblossom on turn two. Loss. Game two I'm on the play but have to mull again, this time to only five cards. I deal with his early interaction, but in the end I flood out. 0-2

    Final score: 10-5 for a standing of 106th. When standings are announced I see that drawing would have been safe.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I just went day 2 in GP Copenhagen. I don't have time to write a full report now, but will probably write something on Tuesday. I feel I'm on fire with the deck right now as I also went 8-2 across two scheduled events yesterday.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I haven't played Collected Company decks myself, but I'd like to echo cbgirardo's thoughts. Mindslaver and Oblvion Stone does way way more than Chalice and Needle ever can. I usually take in Spell Snares, a Negate and an Aethersputs, which has worked decently so far.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Unlike wie2323 I really like Remand against Amulet Bloom. It allows us to stall titans reliably as they can frequently get 8-10 mana in a turn, but not quite 12. If they've been comboing and get their titan out very early, via Summer Bloom, remember that they might not be able to force it through your countermagic in fear of you playing a land destruction spell on their colored sources. This goes even if they go Titan into Slayers' Stronghold as the colors they grab for the stronghold don't pay for any of the pacts. Try to force them to use pacts on remands, then stop the titan permanently with a followup Condescend. In my experience that gives some breathing room.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I don't believe Memnarch is worth it. You first got to get to 7 mana, and only then can you have an impact. On the other hand if you ran another Platinum Angel you get the same upside, while also having something against other decks in the format.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    One thing that might need adjustment is the number of Repeals we run. If we go through the deck at a much higher rate with additional Anticipates we might be able to shave down a copy, since we'll find the bounce when it's important anyway.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    I don't think any of those are what you want. I was initially intrigued by the potential of the Voidmage Husher, but figured Squelch would be better in pretty much any realistic scenario. Deceiver Exarch has the potential to block and stall for a few turns, but at 3 mana and no abuse potential I think it's just too weak.

    If you don't want to run 3 Treasure Mages you could just put in another noncreature spell. I favor running a singleton Anticipate myself, it plays nice on turn two after not countering a spell, just like Snapcaster does.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    You're not afraid of going first though, which is all the card does.

    Edit: There's also the perk of finding a big thing to use as a luck counter. I'm using a 3.5 cm/300 carat piece of rock crystal that is shaped into the form of a d20. Getting the Caverns out turn 0 in game one tends to confuse your opponents.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] MonoU Tron - "The well-oiled machine"
    Quote from KeepCalmMTG »
    List that went 4-0 in a MTGO daily: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1235645
    Most interesting here is the inclusion of a singleton Gemstone Caverns. Pretty intriguing- catches you up on the draw so that you can Remand or Condescend your opponents t2 play. It's also a may ability, so in matchups where you can't afford the card disadvantage you don't have to put the luck counter on it
    That's my list. I made a post explaining its construction about a week ago in this post

    I really like the Gemstone Caverns in it. The ramp is significant every time, and it allows for some hand sculpting. I have often exiled a second counterspell or 4th land. I can't remember ever being in a situation where I didn't want to use it though. Its effect is identical with being on the play and both players mulling once, which is an ideal situation for us because of our card draw. Especially in that list which runs more than normal in the form of Gifts Ungiven, and an Anticipate for smoothing out draws. Other than that I can't really picture a hand that would ever want you to go second in this deck, so the Cavern is getting used every time.
    Posted in: Control
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.