I've also thought about cutting ... Stinkweed Imp since I often find myself questioning how good Dredging actually is.
I've just gotta speak up for Stinkweed Imp.
I'm not sure about your list, but I find myself a little soft to fliers, which is a problem with all the new dragon decks running around, and Stinkweed Imp is just a 3 mana creature that wards off so many dangerous fliers.
I agree that the value of dredging is minimal, which is why I can't recommend running Golgari Grave-Troll anymore, because the Dredge 6 over Dredge 5 is negligible, what isn't negligible is a 3 mana deathtouching flier, which you can guarantee to draw every single turn. So much utility, and is so strong with a Survival of the Fittest in play, which essentially guarantees you draw the most useful creature in your deck literally every single turn.
I'd recommend Praetor's Grasp if you're running into relatively predictable combos such as Hermit Druid or Sharuum gravestorm. Even if you're not, it's never dead, as you just aim it at the guy running black or blue and tutor the best card out of his deck for your use. The double black might be a pain. I see you've got mana crypt and no fetches, I'll assume that's for a reason. The signets are never bad to have, but would be nicer if they filled a role being sacced to Ertai. Ashen Rider is pretty much a shoe-in if you're running Archon of Justice. No Mercy is nice, as is Dissipation Field, since it hits any permanent, as well as indestructible things.
Cyclonic Rift goes in any deck that has at least one blue mana symbol on the General. Bribery goes in 3/4 of them. Especially if you Praetor's Grasp away their Homeward Path. Beware Bribery-ing the skilled green player, as he could just Crop Rotation into Homeward Path.
Mimic Vat is the sort of card that's great in this deck, and nobody in their right mind allows it to stick around for more than a turn. It gets blown up faster than Survival of the Fittest, Sylvan Library, Sword of Feast and Famine, you name it. Nobody will countenance a Vat on the field.
Jarad's my main man, and I heartily believe that Brawn is the better card than Filth for a number of reasons. You don't need to run both, but the effect is totally game-ending, so good on you for keeping him in.
There's a good competitive trio of cards that CreativeStorm is hitting on. Phyrexian Processor is just not close to efficient enough to be in the list. Run it in Oloro instead.
Phyrexian Devourer combos with both Jarad as well as Triskelion if you run Necrotic Ooze. While both of them are mediocre cards by themselves, they bin themselves (nice), they're creatures in the GY when dredged, recurrable via Genesis when you need them, pitchable to Survival of the Fittest, etc. Triskelion combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, who in addition is all kinds of value-on-a-stick. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos with Woodfall Primus and any sac outlet. Having a creature-based free sac outlet is also of paramount importance, as it's fetchable with every black and green fetch outside of Green Sun's Zenith (I'm not aware of any green sac-another-creature dudes, but I didn't do a gatherer search while posting this). My go-to is Dimir House Guard, since it transmutes for Damnation, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Pattern of Rebirth, etc. as well.
Speaking of creature tutors. There's one card in the game that will search for any creature in your library and put it onto the battlefield at instant speed. It's Chord of Calling, and outside the T1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor, and the reshuffle for use later, it's better than GSZ in pretty much every conceivable way. You know what it feels like when someone attacks into your lone Oracle of Mul-Daya mid-late game and you Chord in a Lord of Extinction and demolish that attacker of theirs? This is what that feels like.
Anymore, I find that running a Sword of Feast and Famine is serving me well; we run so many little value creatures that any single one of them can turn into a huge accelerator. The 3 damage from Wood Elves carrying a sword is negligible; the discard and untap is huge. This deck will drink every ounce of mana you can produce.
I have wound up replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Sever the Bloodline. It's exile at 4, hits like-named creatures (screw you, Talrand!), and flashes back so it's not dead if you've dredged it. I like it. I've found that with gods running around, exile or -X/-X is indispensable. My one problem is when they're not creatures. Good god, how does Green/Black kill an indestructible enchantment? I suppose there are All Is Dust, Karn Liberated, and Fade Into Antiquity (I did do a gatherer search for that one).
Regarding your list:
I malign Deadbridge Chant as unreliable, though its card advantage is undeniable if it sticks. I rate it 0.3 Phyrexian Arenas.
Memory Jar seems like awesome tech for a deck that wants its GY full. I think I'll make a spot to test that.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be middling, but probably the best 1 CMC dork in the game. I don't run any other 1 CMC dorks either, though.
If Nighthowler's good, Lashwrithe should be great. I haven't tested it. Doesn't pump Jarad from the GY, harder to recur, not pitchable to Fauna Shaman/Survival. Nighthowler is better synergy, but only might be better value. That 4hp equip might make a huge difference when you want to fling, equip, fling for the kill.
Lotleth Troll seems very underwhelming. I'd run ramp in his place.
Lotus Cobra's amazing if you have an Oracle or Azusa out. I waffle between which of the two I like more. With black/green you can usually tutor up a Crucible, and Crucible + Azusa + Fetchlands = 6 landfall triggers a turn, plus 3 untapped lands. With Lotus Cobra out, that's 9 mana a turn, 3 permanent, for 3 life, until you run out of targets. The Oracle is card advantage/draw filtering, while Azusa isn't, though. In my list I don't run Cobra, so I run Oracle. If I did run Cobra, I think I'd run Azusa too. She also gets extremely unfair with Wasteland and Strip Mine. The reason I run Oracle over Azusa is that I'm concerned about card advantage.
I also notice you don't run Glissa in the 99. I am so rarely unhappy to see her. Our artifacts do so much for the deck, and another (repeatable!) Regrowth effect as well as an efficient combatant is a strong contender for a slot imo.
I've not found anything that efficiently protects the yard, other than having an Eldrazi that you can Survival into the GY in response. Since one of my favorite things about the deck is that it's so full of moving pieces that aren't game-breaking individually that the deck overall is a bad Bribery target, running Eldrazi is counterproductive. I've learned to stop dredging at 20-25 cards, which statistically provides a lot of value, and you just re-dredge after you're hit. It's not great, but this deck is resilient enough to take it.
Have you thought about using Enlarge? I think it's pretty under the radar right now. I run GB, and have thought about Glissa, but haven't tested this at all. Seems 10/10 first strike deathtouch trample commander damage would be pretty much the nuts. Ooh, or Revenge of the Hunted.
This is my Jarad deck at the moment. It draws heavily from RWF_Less's necro'ed primer, as well as a couple other Jarad decks I've stumbled across, and JP93's Savra, Queen of the Golgari list.
Buried Ruin: I worry that the manabase is too greedy to begin with, but I rarely get screwed. Extra artifact recursion is great, because I hate staring at my Altar of Dementia in my GY. Glissa strongly deserves her spot for the same reason.
Crop Rotation: Instant speed nonbasic fixing is damn hard to pass up.
Crypt Ghast: Synergizes with Urborg like crazy, and extort is awesome in larger games. This deck also has a problem bleeding to death a little quickly. There isn't a lot of other lifegain. When you're casting exsanguinate, it's usually for the win, or close enough to it that your life total won't matter afterward.
Cultivate/Kodama's Reach: Acceleration is never bad.
Deathrite Shaman: Total value on a stick. Fixes a hole in the pod chain, which I like a lot. Right now we can pod from 2 up, but with a DRS mainboard, we could pod from an extremely tutorable 0 (Dryad Arbor) into him whenever we have pod. You're more or less guaranteed to tutor a forest at some point.
Garruk Relentless: Tutorable with Dimir House Guard, generates creatures, takes out pesky Wizards (my favorite use for him thus far). This guy's gotten me out of a "The Abyss" lock.
Garruk Primal Hunter: Anything that gives us a creature token also means we could potentially pod a DRS, so I think they go together, in or out, and right now I have them out. All three modes are relevant, and this deck could use a little more card draw.
Grisly Salvage: It's a GB cantrip! Also, when we desperately need anything, it's usually desperately needing a creature or a land, and putting things in the graveyard is a plus.
Reassembling Skeleton: I think I like this guy more than Nether Traitor, and his synergy with phyrexian tower is awesome. Declare blocker, tap sac, return tapped, etc.
Search for Tomorrow: Kinda bad, but I'd be happy to see it in my opening hand. I doubt it's worth the slot, but still worthy of consideration.
Victimize: I haven't tested this yet, but it looks like you could really break this, Eternal Witness, and Bloodghast/Nether Traitor/Reassembling Skeleton.
Vraska the Unseen: Pretty powerful destruction that can even stick around. Funnily enough, haven't had anyone attack her.
Maindeck Cards:
Bone Shredder: I'd like to cut this card, but not badly enough to do so yet. In the debate of Shriekmaw vs Bone Shredder, I think Bone Shredder is the slight victor, given that it can be played and podded for quite a bit of value, while Shriek's evoke prevents some synergy. If you could pod at instant speed, Shriek would be the extreme victor (and pod would be even more broken).
Dryad Arbor: Takes up a forest slot, effectively comes into play tapped, which isn't great, but just don't tutor for it with an effect that puts the land into play untapped, unless it's going to chump for you or something. Could start the pod chain off at 0.
Glissa, the Traitor: I value every artifact highly, and Glissa is aggressively costed, overpowered, and recursive. Dredge self, nuke field, get back 5 artifacts is a conceivable play.
Nether Traitor: He's cheaper to recur than Reassembling Skeleton, and has haste. That said, just the qualifying condition on his returing ability means it'll happen less often, even at the lower cost. I evaluate these small returners or ETBers as Skullclamp targets, and I'm happy drawing 2 for 3 mana with Reassembling Skelly. That does make you a much bigger target for GY exile, though.
Nezumi Graverobber: Black mana in his GY exile ability is much easier to come up with than the G in Scavenging Ooze. With UrborgCoffers out, you can easily eat a graveyard, flip this guy, and reanimate something all at once. He's more toolboxy than beatdown, though, so you might be able to justify ScOoze.
Oracle of Mul Daya: I think the competition is Oracle vs. Azusa, Lost But Seeking. I am not sure I would run both, but I don't balk at the idea. Oracle is a clear victor over Azusa IMO. Being able to filter your draws by playing lands off the top of your library is double card advantage, as well as acceleration.
Wurmcoil Engine: Some amazing efficiency, wastes removal on your opponent's part, great sac target, recurs with any creature reanimation or artifact recursion. Fits its place well. I think that Grave Titan, Massacre Wurm, and this card compete for this spot. I wouldn't want to cut Kokusho or Mikaeus for any of them. Synergizes with Glissa wonderfully because if it goes to the graveyard along with something it traded with, it goes right back to your hand, and leaves babies behind. You can certainly make a case for Wrath-and-You-Lose-Life Wurm, but it doesn't get a whole lot better as the rest of the deck is in play, while Wurmcoil does.
Greater Good: Useful sac outlet, and the card draw is good, even if it's just hand filtering a lot of the time. The discard not only filters your hand, but also puts fatties in the GY.
Pattern of Rebirth: This competes with Natural Order in effect. Natural Order might be a little better given that you don't need a sac outlet to use it, but it only fetches green creatures (which is still okay because we've got primordial and primus at the top of the curve), and requires you to have a green creature out. Pattern of rebirth works on our Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, etc, and fetches Kokusho or Mikaeus. Sac outlets aren't exactly rare in this deck, either, and the little stuff can be Skullclamped.
Pernicious Deed: Well there's obviously some competition in this spot from Gaze of Granite. Gaze of Granite will hit planeswalkers, and is basically a Deed used all at once. Deed's better overall in that you can use it at sorcery speed like Gaze, but you don't have to. Deed plays really well with the Garruks, because you can reset the creature clock and typically outpace the rest of the table. I think this is an even stronger case for including a couple more planeswalkers just so we can go into Superfriends mode.
Liliana of the Veil: 'Nuff said, huge target though. Her +1 even helps us put reanimation targets in the GY. She needs friends!
Exsanguinate: UrborgCoffering into an Exsanguinate for 25 can put you in an unassailable position, and the dread of our enemies when we tap for 30 mana is delicious. Hatred fills this role as well with something like Vampire Nighthawk, but it's dangerous, because the life loss is a casting cost, and the spell can be countered AFTER you pay your life. Hatred also combos with Jarad well, if you can secure the life lead. I'm interested in testing Profane Command as well.
Life from the Loam: Never a bad thing to see when you dredge your Urborg.
Lands: All pretty straightforward. Homeward Path is some great insurance, since you don't really want your 50/50 Lord of Extinction stolen from you. Makes the case for Crop Rotation as well, since you can Crop Rotate into Homeward Path and regain creatures at instant speed.
Thespian's Stage is better than Vesuva, and it's glorious and terrible to behold Scapeshifting into a Thespian Stage, Urborg, Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, and Deserted Temple all at once. With this mana base we measure black mana in yards and green mana in inches.
Other thoughts:
Absence of Triskelion: I don't mind the infinite combos, and I'm not filtering this deck for flavor, but Trike just doesn't strike me as that useful by himself.
Contamination: Great card, traditional Stax tech, it also shuts down our own Coffers hardcore. I like synergy and will avoid anti-synergy strongly.
Splinterfright is ok, but I plan to scavenge most creatures in the graveyard which will exile them. Farseek has to stay as that gives an extra land on turn 2, or anytime. Thanks for replying.
Any other suggestions/thoughts from the community?
The thing about Splinterfright is that the asterisks function while it's in the graveyard, which mean you get to scavenge IT for mad counters. Same story for Boneyard Wurm. Also, why no Jarad's Orders, Mulches or Grisly Salvages?
I'm in love with this deck, and I like the BGR version of Travis Woo's that includes Kessig Wolf Run.
I mull it over on a weekly basis trying to make it better, but it didn't really gain anything that I can discern from DGM with the potential exception of Putrefy. I wish Varolz worked well with it.
Problem 1 is the land (TWoo is a crazy person). I've never been manascrewed, but I've been flooded plenty of times. I take this down to 25 or 24 land, always removing a Kessig and occasionally the Stomping Ground. 3 Farseek is plenty; it really hurts to see 2 in the opening four or so turns. If you can land a Lily, the land turns out to not be a problem, because you break her symmetry by pitching them to her. I'd rather draw more useful cards, though (with the exception of playing Deathrite Shaman).
Problem 2 is aggro. This deck pretty much wins the long game. It folds hard to the blitz decks that will swing for lethal on T4. Mutilate is the best sweeper in standard, and you should make room for four of them. Gloomy and Vampy ensure that your aggro opponents play several extra creatures to prevent bad trades, and they thereby ensure your Mutilates are more valuable. Bonus points: Griseldaddy survives Mutilate 99.9% of the time. So do keyrunes.
I don't do this nearly as much as the pros, but in my opinion this deck gives up durdling for more explosion, and it wants to durdle, then explode.
In that vein, I reduce/remove keyrunes and add Gloom Surgeon. I can't help but suspect that with both time and plenty of mana, Deathrite Shaman will really help increase longevity, but I haven't tested it. Not really reliable for acceleration, but fixing could be nice if you are pitching lands to Lily.
I've tried a one-of replacement Necro Regent for Grisel, and was pleased. Easier to cast, and insane finisher. Trample + Regent = game over in 2 rounds. People tend to scoop to Grisel, but they die to Regent. In this context, I think it's an undervalued threat. The big drawback is no immediate board impact.
Army of the Damned is a great idea, especially in the Wolf Run version where any single one of your threats could be pumped.
Does a Progenitor Mimic token generate an ability that goes on the stack, which is just canceled by the intervening if clause?
If so, and you have a sacrifice outlet, can you sacrifice the Progenitor Mimic token in response to the trigger?
If you did, would the "If this creature is not a token" clause be met, as this creature is not a token, since it's no longer on the battlefield? Is this a case of using the last known attributes?
Is Progenitor Mimic an infinite sacrifice source?
Please use card tags in future posts. The Forum Guidelines explain how to do that. -Carsten
You are not alone! This style of deck is much talked about in The MillGro Thread, but it's generally acknowledged that beating face is the primary wincon with mill being a secondary route.
I haven't had a lot of success with it myself, possibly for lack of skill, but not for lack of wanting. I generally think a green splash is a good thing, smoothing out the mana curve and giving us access to Deathrite Shaman, which is a fine counter-reanimator. I'm not a big fan of Ground Seal, but it exists. There's also always cremate (underplayed imo, given the prevalence of junk reanimator/humanimator, and that it cycles as well). Tormod's Crypt is also a thing.
Mutilate is about the best sweeper in the format, as well, and it ramps Wight of Precinct Six nicely, provided you drop it after or mutilate just under it. Surviving until you can mutilate can be hard against naya blitz, though. WoP6 could be just the thing vs naya blitz, though, since they run 40 creatures in their deck, and milling them at all will grow him like crazy.
I've just gotta speak up for Stinkweed Imp.
I'm not sure about your list, but I find myself a little soft to fliers, which is a problem with all the new dragon decks running around, and Stinkweed Imp is just a 3 mana creature that wards off so many dangerous fliers.
I agree that the value of dredging is minimal, which is why I can't recommend running Golgari Grave-Troll anymore, because the Dredge 6 over Dredge 5 is negligible, what isn't negligible is a 3 mana deathtouching flier, which you can guarantee to draw every single turn. So much utility, and is so strong with a Survival of the Fittest in play, which essentially guarantees you draw the most useful creature in your deck literally every single turn.
Cyclonic Rift goes in any deck that has at least one blue mana symbol on the General. Bribery goes in 3/4 of them. Especially if you Praetor's Grasp away their Homeward Path. Beware Bribery-ing the skilled green player, as he could just Crop Rotation into Homeward Path.
There's a good competitive trio of cards that CreativeStorm is hitting on. Phyrexian Processor is just not close to efficient enough to be in the list. Run it in Oloro instead.
Phyrexian Devourer combos with both Jarad as well as Triskelion if you run Necrotic Ooze. While both of them are mediocre cards by themselves, they bin themselves (nice), they're creatures in the GY when dredged, recurrable via Genesis when you need them, pitchable to Survival of the Fittest, etc. Triskelion combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, who in addition is all kinds of value-on-a-stick. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos with Woodfall Primus and any sac outlet. Having a creature-based free sac outlet is also of paramount importance, as it's fetchable with every black and green fetch outside of Green Sun's Zenith (I'm not aware of any green sac-another-creature dudes, but I didn't do a gatherer search while posting this). My go-to is Dimir House Guard, since it transmutes for Damnation, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Pattern of Rebirth, etc. as well.
Speaking of creature tutors. There's one card in the game that will search for any creature in your library and put it onto the battlefield at instant speed. It's Chord of Calling, and outside the T1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor, and the reshuffle for use later, it's better than GSZ in pretty much every conceivable way. You know what it feels like when someone attacks into your lone Oracle of Mul-Daya mid-late game and you Chord in a Lord of Extinction and demolish that attacker of theirs? This is what that feels like.
Anymore, I find that running a Sword of Feast and Famine is serving me well; we run so many little value creatures that any single one of them can turn into a huge accelerator. The 3 damage from Wood Elves carrying a sword is negligible; the discard and untap is huge. This deck will drink every ounce of mana you can produce.
I have wound up replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Sever the Bloodline. It's exile at 4, hits like-named creatures (screw you, Talrand!), and flashes back so it's not dead if you've dredged it. I like it. I've found that with gods running around, exile or -X/-X is indispensable. My one problem is when they're not creatures. Good god, how does Green/Black kill an indestructible enchantment? I suppose there are All Is Dust, Karn Liberated, and Fade Into Antiquity (I did do a gatherer search for that one).
Regarding your list:
I malign Deadbridge Chant as unreliable, though its card advantage is undeniable if it sticks. I rate it 0.3 Phyrexian Arenas.
Memory Jar seems like awesome tech for a deck that wants its GY full. I think I'll make a spot to test that.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be middling, but probably the best 1 CMC dork in the game. I don't run any other 1 CMC dorks either, though.
If Nighthowler's good, Lashwrithe should be great. I haven't tested it. Doesn't pump Jarad from the GY, harder to recur, not pitchable to Fauna Shaman/Survival. Nighthowler is better synergy, but only might be better value. That 4hp equip might make a huge difference when you want to fling, equip, fling for the kill.
Lotleth Troll seems very underwhelming. I'd run ramp in his place.
After a long time of running 37 land, I've cut it down to 35, and do run a couple of the Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim trio. I'm presently of a mind to test Yavimaya Hollow. Seems like good value.
Lotus Cobra's amazing if you have an Oracle or Azusa out. I waffle between which of the two I like more. With black/green you can usually tutor up a Crucible, and Crucible + Azusa + Fetchlands = 6 landfall triggers a turn, plus 3 untapped lands. With Lotus Cobra out, that's 9 mana a turn, 3 permanent, for 3 life, until you run out of targets. The Oracle is card advantage/draw filtering, while Azusa isn't, though. In my list I don't run Cobra, so I run Oracle. If I did run Cobra, I think I'd run Azusa too. She also gets extremely unfair with Wasteland and Strip Mine. The reason I run Oracle over Azusa is that I'm concerned about card advantage.
I also notice you don't run Glissa in the 99. I am so rarely unhappy to see her. Our artifacts do so much for the deck, and another (repeatable!) Regrowth effect as well as an efficient combatant is a strong contender for a slot imo.
I've not found anything that efficiently protects the yard, other than having an Eldrazi that you can Survival into the GY in response. Since one of my favorite things about the deck is that it's so full of moving pieces that aren't game-breaking individually that the deck overall is a bad Bribery target, running Eldrazi is counterproductive. I've learned to stop dredging at 20-25 cards, which statistically provides a lot of value, and you just re-dredge after you're hit. It's not great, but this deck is resilient enough to take it.
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Birthing Pod
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mimic Vat
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bloodghast
1 Bone Shredder
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Filth
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Genesis
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Hermit Druid
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Mindslicer
1 Nether Traitor
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Wood Elves
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Greater Good
1 Necromancy
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Beast Within
1 Entomb
1 Krosan Grip
1 Putrefy
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Reanimate
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Life from the Loam
1 Living Death
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Regrowth
1 Scapeshift
1 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Command Tower
1 Deserted Temple
4 Forest
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
4 Swamp
1 Tainted Wood
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Crop Rotation
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Cultivate
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Victimize
1 Vraska the Unseen
Under Consideration:
Buried Ruin: I worry that the manabase is too greedy to begin with, but I rarely get screwed. Extra artifact recursion is great, because I hate staring at my Altar of Dementia in my GY. Glissa strongly deserves her spot for the same reason.
Crop Rotation: Instant speed nonbasic fixing is damn hard to pass up.
Crypt Ghast: Synergizes with Urborg like crazy, and extort is awesome in larger games. This deck also has a problem bleeding to death a little quickly. There isn't a lot of other lifegain. When you're casting exsanguinate, it's usually for the win, or close enough to it that your life total won't matter afterward.
Cultivate/Kodama's Reach: Acceleration is never bad.
Deathrite Shaman: Total value on a stick. Fixes a hole in the pod chain, which I like a lot. Right now we can pod from 2 up, but with a DRS mainboard, we could pod from an extremely tutorable 0 (Dryad Arbor) into him whenever we have pod. You're more or less guaranteed to tutor a forest at some point.
Garruk Relentless: Tutorable with Dimir House Guard, generates creatures, takes out pesky Wizards (my favorite use for him thus far). This guy's gotten me out of a "The Abyss" lock.
Garruk Primal Hunter: Anything that gives us a creature token also means we could potentially pod a DRS, so I think they go together, in or out, and right now I have them out. All three modes are relevant, and this deck could use a little more card draw.
Grisly Salvage: It's a GB cantrip! Also, when we desperately need anything, it's usually desperately needing a creature or a land, and putting things in the graveyard is a plus.
Reassembling Skeleton: I think I like this guy more than Nether Traitor, and his synergy with phyrexian tower is awesome. Declare blocker, tap sac, return tapped, etc.
Search for Tomorrow: Kinda bad, but I'd be happy to see it in my opening hand. I doubt it's worth the slot, but still worthy of consideration.
Victimize: I haven't tested this yet, but it looks like you could really break this, Eternal Witness, and Bloodghast/Nether Traitor/Reassembling Skeleton.
Vraska the Unseen: Pretty powerful destruction that can even stick around. Funnily enough, haven't had anyone attack her.
Maindeck Cards:
Bone Shredder: I'd like to cut this card, but not badly enough to do so yet. In the debate of Shriekmaw vs Bone Shredder, I think Bone Shredder is the slight victor, given that it can be played and podded for quite a bit of value, while Shriek's evoke prevents some synergy. If you could pod at instant speed, Shriek would be the extreme victor (and pod would be even more broken).
Dryad Arbor: Takes up a forest slot, effectively comes into play tapped, which isn't great, but just don't tutor for it with an effect that puts the land into play untapped, unless it's going to chump for you or something. Could start the pod chain off at 0.
Glissa, the Traitor: I value every artifact highly, and Glissa is aggressively costed, overpowered, and recursive. Dredge self, nuke field, get back 5 artifacts is a conceivable play.
Nether Traitor: He's cheaper to recur than Reassembling Skeleton, and has haste. That said, just the qualifying condition on his returing ability means it'll happen less often, even at the lower cost. I evaluate these small returners or ETBers as Skullclamp targets, and I'm happy drawing 2 for 3 mana with Reassembling Skelly. That does make you a much bigger target for GY exile, though.
Nezumi Graverobber: Black mana in his GY exile ability is much easier to come up with than the G in Scavenging Ooze. With UrborgCoffers out, you can easily eat a graveyard, flip this guy, and reanimate something all at once. He's more toolboxy than beatdown, though, so you might be able to justify ScOoze.
Oracle of Mul Daya: I think the competition is Oracle vs. Azusa, Lost But Seeking. I am not sure I would run both, but I don't balk at the idea. Oracle is a clear victor over Azusa IMO. Being able to filter your draws by playing lands off the top of your library is double card advantage, as well as acceleration.
Wurmcoil Engine: Some amazing efficiency, wastes removal on your opponent's part, great sac target, recurs with any creature reanimation or artifact recursion. Fits its place well. I think that Grave Titan, Massacre Wurm, and this card compete for this spot. I wouldn't want to cut Kokusho or Mikaeus for any of them. Synergizes with Glissa wonderfully because if it goes to the graveyard along with something it traded with, it goes right back to your hand, and leaves babies behind. You can certainly make a case for Wrath-and-You-Lose-Life Wurm, but it doesn't get a whole lot better as the rest of the deck is in play, while Wurmcoil does.
Greater Good: Useful sac outlet, and the card draw is good, even if it's just hand filtering a lot of the time. The discard not only filters your hand, but also puts fatties in the GY.
Pattern of Rebirth: This competes with Natural Order in effect. Natural Order might be a little better given that you don't need a sac outlet to use it, but it only fetches green creatures (which is still okay because we've got primordial and primus at the top of the curve), and requires you to have a green creature out. Pattern of rebirth works on our Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, etc, and fetches Kokusho or Mikaeus. Sac outlets aren't exactly rare in this deck, either, and the little stuff can be Skullclamped.
Pernicious Deed: Well there's obviously some competition in this spot from Gaze of Granite. Gaze of Granite will hit planeswalkers, and is basically a Deed used all at once. Deed's better overall in that you can use it at sorcery speed like Gaze, but you don't have to. Deed plays really well with the Garruks, because you can reset the creature clock and typically outpace the rest of the table. I think this is an even stronger case for including a couple more planeswalkers just so we can go into Superfriends mode.
Liliana of the Veil: 'Nuff said, huge target though. Her +1 even helps us put reanimation targets in the GY. She needs friends!
Exsanguinate: UrborgCoffering into an Exsanguinate for 25 can put you in an unassailable position, and the dread of our enemies when we tap for 30 mana is delicious. Hatred fills this role as well with something like Vampire Nighthawk, but it's dangerous, because the life loss is a casting cost, and the spell can be countered AFTER you pay your life. Hatred also combos with Jarad well, if you can secure the life lead. I'm interested in testing Profane Command as well.
Life from the Loam: Never a bad thing to see when you dredge your Urborg.
Lands: All pretty straightforward. Homeward Path is some great insurance, since you don't really want your 50/50 Lord of Extinction stolen from you. Makes the case for Crop Rotation as well, since you can Crop Rotate into Homeward Path and regain creatures at instant speed.
Thespian's Stage is better than Vesuva, and it's glorious and terrible to behold Scapeshifting into a Thespian Stage, Urborg, Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, and Deserted Temple all at once. With this mana base we measure black mana in yards and green mana in inches.
Other thoughts:
Absence of Triskelion: I don't mind the infinite combos, and I'm not filtering this deck for flavor, but Trike just doesn't strike me as that useful by himself.
Contamination: Great card, traditional Stax tech, it also shuts down our own Coffers hardcore. I like synergy and will avoid anti-synergy strongly.
The thing about Splinterfright is that the asterisks function while it's in the graveyard, which mean you get to scavenge IT for mad counters. Same story for Boneyard Wurm. Also, why no Jarad's Orders, Mulches or Grisly Salvages?
I mull it over on a weekly basis trying to make it better, but it didn't really gain anything that I can discern from DGM with the potential exception of Putrefy. I wish Varolz worked well with it.
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Blood Crypt
4 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
9 Swamp
Planeswalkers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures:
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Thragtusk
4 Griselbrand
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Gruul Keyrune
Sorceries/Instants:
3 Farseek
3 Sign in Blood
2 Victim of Night
4 Mutilate
4 Gloom Surgeon
2 Victim of Night
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Slaughter Games
3 Rakdos Returns
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Putrefy
1 Army of the Damned
1 Necropolis Regent
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Abrupt Decay
Problem 1 is the land (TWoo is a crazy person). I've never been manascrewed, but I've been flooded plenty of times. I take this down to 25 or 24 land, always removing a Kessig and occasionally the Stomping Ground. 3 Farseek is plenty; it really hurts to see 2 in the opening four or so turns. If you can land a Lily, the land turns out to not be a problem, because you break her symmetry by pitching them to her. I'd rather draw more useful cards, though (with the exception of playing Deathrite Shaman).
Problem 2 is aggro. This deck pretty much wins the long game. It folds hard to the blitz decks that will swing for lethal on T4. Mutilate is the best sweeper in standard, and you should make room for four of them. Gloomy and Vampy ensure that your aggro opponents play several extra creatures to prevent bad trades, and they thereby ensure your Mutilates are more valuable. Bonus points: Griseldaddy survives Mutilate 99.9% of the time. So do keyrunes.
I don't do this nearly as much as the pros, but in my opinion this deck gives up durdling for more explosion, and it wants to durdle, then explode.
In that vein, I reduce/remove keyrunes and add Gloom Surgeon. I can't help but suspect that with both time and plenty of mana, Deathrite Shaman will really help increase longevity, but I haven't tested it. Not really reliable for acceleration, but fixing could be nice if you are pitching lands to Lily.
I've tried a one-of replacement Necro Regent for Grisel, and was pleased. Easier to cast, and insane finisher. Trample + Regent = game over in 2 rounds. People tend to scoop to Grisel, but they die to Regent. In this context, I think it's an undervalued threat. The big drawback is no immediate board impact.
Army of the Damned is a great idea, especially in the Wolf Run version where any single one of your threats could be pumped.
If so, and you have a sacrifice outlet, can you sacrifice the Progenitor Mimic token in response to the trigger?
If you did, would the "If this creature is not a token" clause be met, as this creature is not a token, since it's no longer on the battlefield? Is this a case of using the last known attributes?
Is Progenitor Mimic an infinite sacrifice source?
Please use card tags in future posts. The Forum Guidelines explain how to do that. -Carsten
I haven't had a lot of success with it myself, possibly for lack of skill, but not for lack of wanting. I generally think a green splash is a good thing, smoothing out the mana curve and giving us access to Deathrite Shaman, which is a fine counter-reanimator. I'm not a big fan of Ground Seal, but it exists. There's also always cremate (underplayed imo, given the prevalence of junk reanimator/humanimator, and that it cycles as well). Tormod's Crypt is also a thing.
Mutilate is about the best sweeper in the format, as well, and it ramps Wight of Precinct Six nicely, provided you drop it after or mutilate just under it. Surviving until you can mutilate can be hard against naya blitz, though. WoP6 could be just the thing vs naya blitz, though, since they run 40 creatures in their deck, and milling them at all will grow him like crazy.
Perhaps it's because the SoR adds the cost to playing instead of casting?