I've tried brewing with Tempered Steel a couple of times and I think the answer is either to just break down and either play Affinity or pull a lot of tech out of their deck list. In your case, I think you'd want the latter. A lot of card that are in that deck are still good for you, though, namely Galvanic Blast, Vault Skirge, and maybe Thoughtcast. I wouldn't suggest going for all of these at once but certainly splashing red or blue is possible. Vault Skirge works well with Steel, gaining you a decent amount of life.
Yeah, I actually do have experience with Pod, but my problem with it is that when the card Birthing Pod was first printed I made a really crappy brew of it that I really loved, so even though I know that Angel Pod and Melira Pod are both super good I prefer Crappy Pod, as I like to call it. Haha.
Death and Taxes, eh? I haven't actually looked at the deck list before. Let's go take a look-see.
Favorite Playstyle (Aggro, Midrange, Control, Combo): I'm not sure what to classify it as, but I've been on a huge ETB/Creature Recursion/Static Effect abusing kick recently. I have a Roon of the Hidden Realm EDH deck, as well as a Marchesa, the Black Rose, a Chainer, Dementia Master, and a Daretti, Scrap Savant deck. All of which focus on abusing recursion of effects.
How Competitive (For Fun, Local Tournament, MTGO, PTQ/GP):Fun/FNM. I have a very hectic work schedule, so I very much doubt I will ever have time for more than that.
Favorite Cards/Colors: At the moment, my favorite card is probably Keranos, God of Storms. Close second is Myr Battlesphere, if I had to name one.
Budget: Fairly infinite, one of my close friends is a heavy Modern player and trades for pretty much anything I need.
Staples Owned: My friend owns almost all of the actual staples and should be able to get his hands on whatever else is necessary.
Most of the lists that I've looked at seem decent but none of them have actually jumped out at me. I need to get motivation to actually try a deck, I guess.
This is the deck I will probably be testing tonight. I really do like counter magic main board, especially since when the opponent only has two or three lands, Remand almost reads the same as Time Walk and this deck is really good about making sure they are low on lands.
I can very much see an argument for main-board Vapor Snag. I think it's relatively decent in general, and against the right decks serves as a pseudo-Boomerang to ramp decks. Maybe, if it seems like it's not versatile enough, something like Into the Roil wouldn't be bad? Late game is a card draw too, which is pretty cool.
Also, as I said in my last post, I want to try giving SSG another try. I liked playing it early and it synergizes with my Runeflare Traps very well. Cut one Snapcaster Mage and some counter magic to make room again.
Going to my LGS later on tonight, should at least get a game or two in while I'm there. Will report when I get home.
Haven't played against twin. Uh, timely Remand might not be bad against them. Other than that, they need lands to combo, we stop that? Shouldn't be awful, same with combo in general. At least on paper.
Yeah, I know SSG is a good card. Like, don't get me wrong, I looooooove being able to turn one Howling/Netsuke/etc. I liked playing it when it worked, but in my testing I found that the deck really needs to hit it's land drops, even with the SSG's. So maybe upping the land count and keeping them? I don't know.. More testing needed on that one.
Relatedly, I do feel that more counterspells are decent in the deck. Ideally, those would be replaced by more bounce, because I think that bouncing lands is keeeey to the deck working really well, but the 3 cmc bounce spells cost too much for the speed I'd like to be playing them.
Seems quite nice for a general sideboard and then change out the Recall/Hibernation for Cryptic Command/another counter/Pyroclasm variant based on your current lgs's meta. Opinions?
Last note: I compleeeeetely forgot to test SSC with Runeflare Trap! Holy crap that seems way good. I need to try that out. Pronto. Being tapped out and killing them after their draw seems so good.
If Bellowing Tanglewurm doesn't work out, and you're willing to stray a little from the Wurm theme, Vorapede and Thornling are both great 5 drops (Thornling being the better one, imo) that can trample and deal decent damage.
I think this deck seems absolutely silly and exactly the kind of deck I would want to play in modern. Hahahaha.
I don't know what, but you might want to consider a one or two of tutor spell for your combo pieces, preferably something that could get any of the four?
So yeah. I did some testing, as I said I would. And, surprisingly, I was able to go about 50/50 against someone who plays modern regularly at huge tournaments and has top-end decks. After some adjusting, here's my list:
So after testing, we decided that the 18 land, 4 Simean Spirit Guide route was too inconsistant, so we upped the lands a couple. We're under the opinion that Runeflare Trap is Sudden Impact only cheaper when it actually matters. Kami of the Crescent Moon draws removal too much, while [/card]Snapcaster Mage[/card] doesn't care if it's removed or not and allows us to cast our control again. We tried adding more land control in the form of Consign to Dream but it was too slow so the Snapcaster Mages help with that, and we went with a counterspell suite of Disrupting Shoal, Spell Snare, and a singleton Mana Leak. By the time you'll be casting Leak, Shoal, etc., you should have enough mana to bounce something or play a Mine/Netsuke in the same turn.
Also...
After some talking to him and playtesting, we think that the Autochthon WurmNourishing Shoal combo is too cute for the general meta BUT that rush decks are really the toughest matchup. I did not win a single game vs Merfolk, and I imagine Elf Ball will yield similar results. Yeah, WurmShoal is okay vs aggro, but not only is it a 2 card combo vs one type of deck in the sideboard but in this kind of deck we're not looking to combo out in the couple turns it gives us, we're looking to stall out hard. Gaining 15 life will buys us one to two turns on average. We should be looking to bounce everything, or kill everything, or something along those lines. Pyroclasm does woooonders there. We were thinking of Cyclonic Rift or something along those lines, but that also seems too slow to beat out any rush decksHurkyll's Recall works well vs Tron, and Hibernation is apparently really good in a general meta. So it's the last 3/4 cards that need to be filled, preferably by a sweeper of some kind?
Just my opinions after some testing, feel free to correct.
Also, I'd love to see some sample plays. Like, I understand it's supposed to be controlish, but I don't really know how it's supposed to win if you keep blinking your own creatures back to your hand. Dust Elemental seems like It can do a beating, but at a hefty cost. Seems kinda slow, especially for Red/White.
In the sample decklist, Martial Coup is in the Land category. ><
Other than that, the deck seems fun! I don't have much constructive criticism or any of that, mostly because I haven't played any Devotion decks and I've only played my one Esper control deck so far. Maybe give sample decklists for the G/W version? I like the idea of Sylvan Scrying in that deck.
Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on this thread. I've got a couple of people playing Modern in my playgroup around here, and I might proxy it up to see how it does against them. If I do, I'll post results? Won't be for a couple of days though.
And there's enough consistancy with the Whip to be able to rely on it? Clearly more midrange than reanimator, but the whip is a good backup anyways, so... Just making sure.
Death and Taxes, eh? I haven't actually looked at the deck list before. Let's go take a look-see.
How Competitive (For Fun, Local Tournament, MTGO, PTQ/GP):Fun/FNM. I have a very hectic work schedule, so I very much doubt I will ever have time for more than that.
Favorite Cards/Colors: At the moment, my favorite card is probably Keranos, God of Storms. Close second is Myr Battlesphere, if I had to name one.
Budget: Fairly infinite, one of my close friends is a heavy Modern player and trades for pretty much anything I need.
Staples Owned: My friend owns almost all of the actual staples and should be able to get his hands on whatever else is necessary.
Most of the lists that I've looked at seem decent but none of them have actually jumped out at me. I need to get motivation to actually try a deck, I guess.
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Simean Spirit Guide
Artifacts:
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
3 Temple Bell
2 Jace Beleran
Sorceries:
3 Exhaustion
4 Eye of Nowhere
Instants:
4 Boomerang
2 Disrupting Shoal
4 Remand
4 Runeflare Trap
14 Island
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
This is the deck I will probably be testing tonight. I really do like counter magic main board, especially since when the opponent only has two or three lands, Remand almost reads the same as Time Walk and this deck is really good about making sure they are low on lands.
I can very much see an argument for main-board Vapor Snag. I think it's relatively decent in general, and against the right decks serves as a pseudo-Boomerang to ramp decks. Maybe, if it seems like it's not versatile enough, something like Into the Roil wouldn't be bad? Late game is a card draw too, which is pretty cool.
Also, as I said in my last post, I want to try giving SSG another try. I liked playing it early and it synergizes with my Runeflare Traps very well. Cut one Snapcaster Mage and some counter magic to make room again.
Going to my LGS later on tonight, should at least get a game or two in while I'm there. Will report when I get home.
~Phenox
Relatedly, I do feel that more counterspells are decent in the deck. Ideally, those would be replaced by more bounce, because I think that bouncing lands is keeeey to the deck working really well, but the 3 cmc bounce spells cost too much for the speed I'd like to be playing them.
As for sideboard... my opinion is that:
4 Hurkyll's Recall
3 Blood Moon
4 Hibernation
Seems quite nice for a general sideboard and then change out the Recall/Hibernation for Cryptic Command/another counter/Pyroclasm variant based on your current lgs's meta. Opinions?
Last note: I compleeeeetely forgot to test SSC with Runeflare Trap! Holy crap that seems way good. I need to try that out. Pronto. Being tapped out and killing them after their draw seems so good.
I don't know what, but you might want to consider a one or two of tutor spell for your combo pieces, preferably something that could get any of the four?
3 Snapcaster Mage
Artifacts:
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
3 Temple Bell
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace Beleran
3 Exhaustion
4 Eye of Nowhere
Instants:
4 Boomerang
2 Disrupting Shoal
1 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Runeflare Trap
2 Spell Snare
14 Island
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Logic!
So after testing, we decided that the 18 land, 4 Simean Spirit Guide route was too inconsistant, so we upped the lands a couple. We're under the opinion that Runeflare Trap is Sudden Impact only cheaper when it actually matters. Kami of the Crescent Moon draws removal too much, while [/card]Snapcaster Mage[/card] doesn't care if it's removed or not and allows us to cast our control again. We tried adding more land control in the form of Consign to Dream but it was too slow so the Snapcaster Mages help with that, and we went with a counterspell suite of Disrupting Shoal, Spell Snare, and a singleton Mana Leak. By the time you'll be casting Leak, Shoal, etc., you should have enough mana to bounce something or play a Mine/Netsuke in the same turn.
Also...
After some talking to him and playtesting, we think that the Autochthon Wurm Nourishing Shoal combo is too cute for the general meta BUT that rush decks are really the toughest matchup. I did not win a single game vs Merfolk, and I imagine Elf Ball will yield similar results. Yeah, WurmShoal is okay vs aggro, but not only is it a 2 card combo vs one type of deck in the sideboard but in this kind of deck we're not looking to combo out in the couple turns it gives us, we're looking to stall out hard. Gaining 15 life will buys us one to two turns on average. We should be looking to bounce everything, or kill everything, or something along those lines. Pyroclasm does woooonders there. We were thinking of Cyclonic Rift or something along those lines, but that also seems too slow to beat out any rush decksHurkyll's Recall works well vs Tron, and Hibernation is apparently really good in a general meta. So it's the last 3/4 cards that need to be filled, preferably by a sweeper of some kind?
Just my opinions after some testing, feel free to correct.
In your deck list, "Stingscrouger" should be "Stingscourger", "Avan Riftwatcher" should be "Aven Riftwatcher", "Avalanche Rider" should be "Avalanche Riders". and "Stonecloak" should be "Stonecloaker". Might wanna fix that. ^^
Also, I'd love to see some sample plays. Like, I understand it's supposed to be controlish, but I don't really know how it's supposed to win if you keep blinking your own creatures back to your hand. Dust Elemental seems like It can do a beating, but at a hefty cost. Seems kinda slow, especially for Red/White.
Other than that, the deck seems fun! I don't have much constructive criticism or any of that, mostly because I haven't played any Devotion decks and I've only played my one Esper control deck so far. Maybe give sample decklists for the G/W version? I like the idea of Sylvan Scrying in that deck.
And there's enough consistancy with the Whip to be able to rely on it? Clearly more midrange than reanimator, but the whip is a good backup anyways, so... Just making sure.